The Restitution Of All Things A.K.A. Universalism

[Pneuma3]

That's not what I'm getting from.the New Testament, yes there will be a new heavens and a new earth, in that sense all is restored. But did you never read about the antichrist and the false prophet being cast bodily into the lake of fire? How about the books being open and everyone not found in the Lambs book of life are cast into the lake of fire? Jesus himself said if your eye causes you to sin pluck it out, better to lose a member then to have the whole body cast into the lake of fire.

Not everyone is going to be saved, Jesus said broad is the path that leads to destruction and many are they that follow it. But narrow is the path that leads to life a few there are who find it. That's from Jesus innaugral Sermon, the Sermon on the Mount. Jesus is the one in the New Testament talking about he'll. Paul says if anyone teach another gospel let him be anathema which pretty much means go to blazes.

By the way you keep asking why people were drawn to Christ, I want to answer that. I came under conviction for sin and prayed the sinners prayer, I must have done it a dozen times. This time God responded, I've been a Christian ever since. What has always attracted me to Christianity has been the Scriptures, a definitive standard for any doctrine, history or dispute.

Anyway appreciate your civility in the thread, you ran the gauntlet and minded your manners. In that sense your a credit to your views, I do appreciate that about you. Now the substance of your views is something else entirely, but we can discuss it further.

Grace and peace,
Mark

Hi Mark can you tell me who the strait gate is in reference to?
Who the broad road of destruction is in reference to?
And what those scriptures are in reference to as a whole?

 

[FineLinen]

ok ok ok lol but i can't take shifts as i'm super duper busy right now... i just needed a break today... you will just have to pine away at my absence i guess lol

Gary, he doesn't deserve pain... he has worked so tirelessly for God, AND for all of us, he really is at the front lines, and i don't know what we would do without him!

My dear Hugs: I know you cannot take shifts. Take care of your business and drop in when you can. F.L. will pine away awaiting the next encounter.

Pain is a road our Father uses to bring us to fuller knowledge of Him. It is only an avenue that ends in victory.

 

[needhugs]

I think you need a , hugs.

I don't think we are to fear God as in being scared of Him, I believe we are to be in awe of Him and IMO the salvation of this whole messed up world is truly awe inspiring.

yes, the love He showed me was tinged with a CALM respect... but i was deep deep into terror back then... and even until VERY recently.

salvation of the pit of despair? yes!!! it's AWE inspiring!!!

if Jesus DOES have other worlds to save, it's no wonder He came here first!! the most desperate need probably!!

I've seen Him... 'Jesus?..... I REMEMBER YOOOOOUUUU'

 

[needhugs]

My dear Hugs: I know you cannot take shifts. Take care of your business and drop in when you can. F.L. will pine away awaiting the next encounter.

Pain is a road our Father uses to bring us to fuller knowledge of Him. It is only an avenue that ends in victory.

I wonder why God couldn't think of a better way than PAIN... I honestly don't think i can take anymore... I feel Him lifting me out... and I think of the book of Job... 'He will deliver thee in six troubles. Yea in seven shall no evil touch thee'... and i am trying to find out if i'm at seven yet.

oh i love Nick, i'm going back to watch that video!! thanks! xoxox

you can talk to our stubborn calvinist friend down there, i'm too tired lol

 

[mark kennedy]

did you not read that even 'liars' and 'the fearful' will be cast into the lake of fire along with 'unbelievers'... there is quite the list of all who will be cast into the lake of fire, not just unbelievers! and i take it you did not watch the video on what the lake of fire is.

No I missed the video and I'm familar with the passage you alluding to.

and Jesus said that's it's better to lop things off your body than to be thrown whole into gehenna, not the lake of fire... gehenna was the city dump, full of garbage and the dead bodies of criminals, where they kept the fire always burning, for the religious people of Jesus' day, to be cast into gehenna was a fate worse than death.

Gehena was the valley of Hinnon where the children of Israel, including Ahaz made their children pass through the fire. Jeremiah mentions it repeatedly in the early chapters and the practice was see topped by king Josiah who converted it to a dump, where the worm dies not and the fire is never quenched. It's distinct from Hades which is temporary, since gehena is eternal.

i was on the broad path (eternal torment believing mainstream Christianity) and i was in hell on earth, that doctrine literally drove me insane, i'm not using 'drove me insane' as a figure of speech, i mean it as literally as you can take it.... now that God has finally revealed the truth to me, i'm quickly coming into heaven on earth, and of course it is 'few' who find this path. Mainstreamers will fight to the death to keep blaspheming God and terrifying themselves and others... why they want to do that, when a little study and research and seeking God in prayer would fix matters... i don't know... i just don't know.... i also don't know how ANYBODY can believe that doctrine and NOT go insane.

but if you are 'happy' with it... have at 'er.

God bless...

I've never been much for following the crowd, I base my doctrinal stand on the clear testimony of Scripture. For me the burden wasn't that the was a he'll and the lake of fire but that I was a sinner. Then the gospel reveals the righteousness of God in Christ, that's the only way you avoid the fires of perdition. Now I dont know about you personal struggles but I do know the Scriptures and Jesus taught the doctrine of he'll and the lake of fire. Jesus is really the only one teaching this doctrine, probably because he was the only one who knew anything about it.

 

[mark kennedy]

Then evidently His will to restore the whole of created life back in the Last Adam fails? His will that all mankind experiences the One "who wills all mankind to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth" fails? Abba who has promised to release the groaning captives of sin fails? NEVER!

"The whole of created life shall be delivered/set free/emancipated..."

Every last fallen son of Adam1 will not only be saved, every last one will be reconciled: every last one!>>>>>>>But there is more>>>>>

"Saved"...."reconciled" & "made righteous."

He does raise the righteous and the wicked on the last day, some are raised to eternal life, some to everlasting shame and contempt. That's not a failure, that's part of the promise of the gospel that the wicked are cast bodily into the lake of fire. Perdition is a permenant condition that you can't repent of. If you become enlighten to the gospel, experience the powers of the age to come and fall away from the faith it is impossible for you to be restored to repentance. A host of the rejected cry out Lord, Lord, did we not do many things in your name. Jesus replies I never knew you and has them cast into the lake of fire prepared for the devil and his angels. You don't have a sound argument, it has some sentimental surface appeal but it flagrantly contradicts the doctrine of Christ himself concerning the fires of perdition.

 

[FineLinen]

No I missed the video and I'm familar with the passage you alluding to.

Mark: watch the video when you can.

"Everlasting Destruction"=

In order to understand this phrase we must first look closely at the root words on which the English is based. We should start with “everlasting” which is the Greek word aionios (Strong’s number 166). I refer you to Hope Beyond Hell Chapter one and its accompanying notes, which you will find in the Third Edition only. It will be available soon as a free download. We hope to release it in September 2012. Email me for updates on its release.

Also we need to look at the Greek word for “destruction”

which is olethros (Strong’s number 3639). For this I refer you to Dr. Marvin Vincent D.D. Balwin Professor of Sacred Literature, Union Theological Seminary New York published in 1887. Here is his quote from Volume IV, in Word Studies in the New Testament pages 58 – 62. He expounds on olethron aionion in 2Th. 1:9:

‘Aion, transliterated aeon, is a period of longer or shorter duration, having a beginning and an end, and complete in itself. Aristotle (peri ouravou, i. 9,15) says: “The period which includes the whole time of one’s life is called the aeon of each one.”

Hence it often means the life of a man, as in Homer, where one’s life (aion) is said to leave him or to consume away (Iliad v. 685; Odyssey v. 160). It is not, however, limited to human life; it signifies any period in the course of events, as the period or age before Christ; the period of the millenium; the mythological period before the beginnings of history. The word has not “a stationary and mechanical value” (De Quincey). It does not mean a period of a fixed length for all cases. There are as many aeons as entities, the respective durations of which are fixed by the normal conditions of the several entities. There is one aeon of a human life, another of the life of a nation, another of a crow’s life, another of an oak’s life. The length of the aeon depends on the subject to which it is attached.

It is sometimes translated world; world represents a period or a series of periods of time.

See Matt 12:32; 13:40,49; Luke 1:70; 1 Cor 1:20; 2:6; Eph 1:21. Similarly oi aiones, the worlds, the universe, the aggregate of the ages or periods, and their contents which are included in the duration of the world. 1 Cor 2:7; 10:11; Heb 1:2; 9:26; 11:3. The word always carries the notion of time, and not of eternity. It always means a period of time. Otherwise it would be impossible to account for the plural, or for such qualifying expressions as this age, or the age to come. It does not mean something endless or everlasting. To deduce that meaning from its relation to aei is absurd; for, apart from the fact that the meaning of a word is not definitely fixed by its derivation, aei does not signify endless duration. When the writer of the Pastoral Epistles quotes the saying that the Cretans are always (aei) liars (Tit. 1:12), he surely does not mean that the Cretans will go on lying to all eternity. See also Acts 7:51; 2 Cor. 4:11; 6:10; Heb 3:10; 1 Pet. 3:15. Aei means habitually or continually within the limit of the subject’s life. In our colloquial dialect everlastingly is used in the same way. “The boy is everlastingly tormenting me to buy him a drum.”

In the New Testament the history of the world is conceived as developed through a succession of aeons.

A series of such aeons precedes the introduction of a new series inaugurated by the Christian dispensation, and the end of the world and the second coming of Christ are to mark the beginning of another series. Eph. 1:21; 2:7; 3:9,21; 1 Cor 10:11; compare Heb. 9:26. He includes the series of aeons in one great aeon, ‘o aion ton aionon, the aeon of the aeons (Eph. 3:21); and the author of the Epistle to the Hebrews describe the throne of God as enduring unto the aeon of the aeons (Heb 1:8). The plural is also used, aeons of the aeons, signifying all the successive periods which make up the sum total of the ages collectively. Rom. 16:27; Gal. 1:5; Philip. 4:20, etc. This plural phrase is applied by Paul to God only.

Continued Below

http://www.hopebeyondhell.net/faq-17-what-does-“everlasting-destruction”-mean-2thes-19/

 

[Pneuma3]

He does raise the righteous and the wicked on the last day, some are raised to eternal life, some to everlasting shame and contempt. That's not a failure, that's part of the promise of the gospel that the wicked are cast bodily into the lake of fire. Perdition is a permenant condition that you can't repent of. If you become enlighten to the gospel, experience the powers of the age to come and fall away from the faith it is impossible for you to be restored to repentance. A host of the rejected cry out Lord, Lord, did we not do many things in your name. Jesus replies I never knew you and has them cast into the lake of fire prepared for the devil and his angels. You don't have a sound argument, it has some sentimental surface appeal but it flagrantly contradicts the doctrine of Christ himself concerning the fires of perdition.

Mark you bring up another scripture here, but who is it in reference to? The believer or the unbeliever?

 

[Pneuma3]

Mark you bring up another scripture here, but who is it in reference to? The believer or the unbeliever?

Hint..The answer is the same here as with the other questions I asked you.

 

[needhugs]

He does raise the righteous and the wicked on the last day, some are raised to eternal life, some to everlasting shame and contempt. That's not a failure, that's part of the promise of the gospel that the wicked are cast bodily into the lake of fire. Perdition is a permenant condition that you can't repent of. If you become enlighten to the gospel, experience the powers of the age to come and fall away from the faith it is impossible for you to be restored to repentance. A host of the rejected cry out Lord, Lord, did we not do many things in your name. Jesus replies I never knew you and has them cast into the lake of fire prepared for the devil and his angels. You don't have a sound argument, it has some sentimental surface appeal but it flagrantly contradicts the doctrine of Christ himself concerning the fires of perdition.

le sigh... surely you must know that we know YOU are the one flagrantly denying the doctrine of Christ, nobody here denies a 'hell' or the lake of fire... all you have to do is get in an argument about the real words behind 'forever' and 'eternal'...

i thought i would make it easy on you and PROVE to you that God would save 'ALL'... but i'll bet you didn't watch that video either...

now all of us come from where you are now... we WERE believers in eternal torture... we knew that doctrine inside and out... so we do not have to study to understand your point of view.

but YOU on the other hand, if you want to be worthy of this discussion, you must study.

watch the videos i sent to you.

all your doctrine is 'Oh my dog!!!! it says 'FIRE' and it says 'FOREVER'' aaaahhh, burning forever for unbelievers!!!

our doctrine comes from years of studying and seeking the Lord about a truth that means we will be hated by other Christians...

 

[FineLinen]

He does raise the righteous and the wicked on the last day, some are raised to eternal life, some to everlasting shame and contempt. That's not a failure, that's part of the promise of the gospel...

The promise of the Lord is to restore all creation back into fellowship with Himself! He has declared this "by Himself." The slightest variance is total and complete failure! If ta pante does not mean the all, any deviation is failure, total and complete failure! If the Last Adam does not make the mass of mankind "righteous", the first Adam has succeeded in keeping the polus captive in sin. Again, total failure by the One who declares the same mass/polus made sinners destined to be made righteous. Total and complete failure by the Will of all wills!

"The whole of created life shall be delivered/set free/emancipated..."

Every last fallen son of Adam1 will not only be saved, every last one will be reconciled: every last one!>>>>>>>But there is more>>>>>

"Saved"...."reconciled" & "made righteous"

 

[sdowney717]

He does raise the righteous and the wicked on the last day, some are raised to eternal life, some to everlasting shame and contempt. That's not a failure, that's part of the promise of the gospel that the wicked are cast bodily into the lake of fire. Perdition is a permenant condition that you can't repent of. If you become enlighten to the gospel, experience the powers of the age to come and fall away from the faith it is impossible for you to be restored to repentance. A host of the rejected cry out Lord, Lord, did we not do many things in your name. Jesus replies I never knew you and has them cast into the lake of fire prepared for the devil and his angels. You don't have a sound argument, it has some sentimental surface appeal but it flagrantly contradicts the doctrine of Christ himself concerning the fires of perdition.

True, the people who go to hell and the second death do not ever come out alive.
Are never made righteous, and suffer an eternal age enduring destruction.
Only believers are saved.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-12 New King James Version (NKJV)
7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.

11 Therefore we also pray always for you that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfill all the good pleasure of His goodness and the work of faith with power, 12 that the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and you in Him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[FineLinen]

The promise of the Lord is to restore all creation back into fellowship with Himself! He has declared this "by Himself." The slightest variance is total and complete failure! If ta pante does not mean the all, any deviation is failure, total and complete failure! If the Last Adam does not make the mass of mankind "righteous", the first Adam has succeeded in keeping the polus captive in sin. Again, total failure by the One who declares the same mass/polus made sinners destined to be made righteous. Total and complete failure by the Will of all wills!

"The whole of created life shall be delivered/set free/emancipated..."

Every last fallen son of Adam1 will not only be saved, every last one will be reconciled: every last one!>>>>>>>But there is more>>>>>

"Saved"...."reconciled" & "made righteous"

Dear Mark: The Gospel is "good news" announced by angelic hosts who proclaim joy for all people. If your gospel is true joy will be limited to a few choice individuals, with the mass of mankind never ever knowing the joy of the Gospel of Jesus Christ! In fact, the mass of Adam 1 will not only experience joy, they have the pleasure of unending misery to look forward to.

If your "gospel" is true the Master who refuses to allow broken pieces of fish and bread to not be lost/destroyed fails again. He will not allow remnants of fish and bread to be lost, but fails in His mission to reconcile the broken wrecks of Adam 1!

The Gospel=

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_gospel

Time for a hymn

 

[FineLinen]

True, the people who go to hell and the second death do not ever come out alive.
Are never made righteous, and suffer an eternal age enduring destruction.
Only believers are saved.

You my friend are unaware of the Lake of Fire & Deity. There may be "age enduring" destruction, but the end of all is the Source, who also is the Goal of the all!

 

[FineLinen]

We have a brother on this link (Hillsage) who was in the Catholic church for 20 years, and spent 10 years searching the Scriptures regarding Reconciliation. Take your time my friends, the facts stare you in the face. All that is required is a hearing ear & eyes that have been restored to sight by the Mighty Healer, Christ Jesus the Lord of Glory!

 

[sdowney717]

You my friend are unaware of the Lake of Fire & Deity. There may be "age enduring" destruction, but the end of all is the Source, who also is the Goal of the all!

Found a humorous quote,

'The Lake of Fire is the turn of the lost to be, in a sense, "purified." Purified of what? Purified of their misconceptions of the character of God.'
They will never get out from there. What they will have learned is God is a consuming fire, they were wrong about who God is, and God consumes evil in everlasting torments in a separate place apart from His goodness, mercy and love, they get to experience His wrath. God is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

'And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.'

 

[FineLinen]

Found a humorous quote,

'The Lake of Fire is the turn of the lost to be, in a sense, "purified." Purified of what? Purified of their misconceptions of the character of God.'
They will never get out from there. What they will have learned is God is a consuming fire, they were wrong about who God is, and God consumes evil in everlasting torments in a separate place apart from His goodness, mercy and love, they get to experience His wrath. God is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

'And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.'

My friend: I prefer to fall into the hands of Abba, the Father of all fathers. His "wrath" is an exercise that results in change and transformation. Give me Abba's hand any day, let me fall into Your hands blessed Lord!

 

[ClementofA]

They will never get out from there.

Re "never" (Mt.7:23, etc)...this word appears to occur 16 times in the NT & it seems that it never means anything except "never". It is used of "love never fails" (1 Cor.13:8). It also occurs in Mt.7:23 where Jesus says "I never knew you; depart you from Me, those working lawlessness." Which is such an incredibly lame remark, if Love Omnipotent believed in endless torments. If He believed that such an unspeakably horrific final destiny awaits the wicked, including those He was referring to in Mt.7:23, why didn't He make it clear by telling them that they would "never" be saved and/or He would "never" know them? Would that not have been clear & unambiguous, unlike the words He spoke, & unlike the ambiguous aion & aionios, which often refer to finite duration in ancient Koine Greek? OTOH consider re the use of the word "never":

"Philo saith, “The punishment of the wicked person is, ζην αποθανοντα αει, to live for ever dying, and to be for ever in pains, and griefs, and calamities that never cease..." http://biblehub.com/commentaries/benson/mark/9.htm

Yet Scripture - never - uses such language. Moreover, it speaks of death being abolished, not being "for ever".

Do you agree with Vincent that aidios means everlasting?

I think it was a superior word to use relative to the ambiguous aion & aionios, if God was a believer in endless punishment. Moreover, as opposed to aion and aionios (which are often used of finite duration), God had a number of other words & expressions available that would also have better served to express endless punishment, if Love Omnipotent were a believer of such. But He never uses such of eschatological punishment. So the reasonable conclusion is that Love Omnipotent rejected using such words and expressions of a final destiny of endless punishment because He knew better & He rejected the notion that anyone will endure endless punishment. Those words & expresssions are:

1. no end (Lk.1:33)...this expression is used of God's kingdom having "no end". It is never used of anyone's torments or punishment. We never read of anyone receiving torments that will have "no end". This unambiguous phrase, "no end", would have been a superior choice to the ambiguous words aion & aionion, if Love Omnipotent had a belief in endless torments or annihilation. But He rejected its use in expressing such a fate.

2. endless (1 Tim.1:4)...Again if Love Omnipotent believed in endless torments, why didn't He use this word to express it, instead of the ambiguous aion & aionion, which often refer to finite durations in ancient Greek usage?

3. never (Mt.7:23, etc)...this word appears to occur 16 times in the NT & it seems that it never means anything except "never". It is used of "love never fails" (1 Cor.13:8). It also occurs in Mt.7:23 where Jesus says "I never knew you; depart you from Me, those working lawlessness." Which is such an incredibly lame remark, if Love Omnipotent believed in endless torments. If He believed that such an unspeakably horrific final destiny awaits the wicked, including those He was referring to in Mt.7:23, why didn't He make it clear by telling them that they would "never" be saved and/or He would "never" know them? Would that not have been clear & unambiguous, unlike the words He spoke, & unlike the ambiguous aion & aionios, which often refer to finite duration in ancient Koine Greek? OTOH consider re the use of the word "never":

"Philo saith, “The punishment of the wicked person is, ζην αποθανοντα αει, to live for ever dying, and to be for ever in pains, and griefs, and calamities that never cease..." http://biblehub.com/commentaries/benson/mark/9.htm

Yet Scripture - never - uses such language. Moreover, it speaks of death being abolished, not being "for ever".

4. eternal (Rom.1:16; Jude 1:6)...this word, AIDIOS, is used of God's "eternal" power & "eternal" chains that bind until the day of judgement. It is never used of anyone's final destiny. We never read of anyone being tormented for eternal ages. We never read of anyone suffering eternal (AIDIOS) punishment. If Jude believed in endless punishment, he had the perfect opportunity at Jude 1:6 by simply adding that the angels would suffer the judgement of eternal (AIDIOS) punishment or torments. Instead of warning his readers of such a horrificly monstrous fate, as he should have been morally obligated to do if it were a real possibility, instead he conveys the relatively utterly lame & insignificant info that these angelic beings will be kept in chains until judgement day. OTOH, consider:

"Instead of saying with Philo and Josephus, thanaton athanaton, deathless or immortal death; eirgmon aidion, eternal imprisonment; aidion timorion, eternal torment; and thanaton ateleuteton, interminable death, he [Jesus] used aionion kolasin..." http://www.tentmaker.org/books/prevailing/upd3.html

"Nyssa defined the vision of God promised there as "life without end, eternal incorruption, undying beatitude [ten ateleuteton zoen, ten aidion aphtharsian , ten athanaton makarioteta]." ("Christianity and Classical Culture: The Metamorphosis of Natural Theology in ..." By Jaroslav Pelikan, p.165 @): https://books.google.ca/books?id=3V...5DMMQ6AEIODAE#v=onepage&q=ateleuteton&f=false

5. unfading (1 Pet.1:4; 5:4)...Peter uses this word of an endless inheritance reserved in heaven & a crown of glory. It is never used of the endless pain, punishment or torments that anyone will receive. Can it be denied that this would have been a superior word (over aion & aionios) to use to express such a horrific destiny if Love Omnipotent actually had such in store for anyone? Wouldn't He want to express warnings about it in the clearest ways possible?

6. found no place for repentance (Heb.12:17)...is used in Heb.12:17 of the loss of a finite earthly blessing..."he found no place of repentance, although having earnestly sought it with tears". Never is it used regarding those in Gehenna, Hades, the lake of fire, or eschatological punishment. Never do we read of those cast into any "hell" that they will not (or never) find a place of repentance, even though they earnestly seek it with tears. God was quite capable of expressing such in His Holy Scriptures. But rather than give such a warning, as Love Omnipotent should have if such an unbelievably horrific future awaited anyone, instead we are told of the relatively lame loss of a finite earthly blessing. Such a waste of words if endless punishment were really true.

7. In Mt.18:6 is the lame warning of a punishment which is compared to mere drowning, which is nothing compared to being kept alive for the sole purpose of being tortured for all the "endless" ages of eternity that have "no end" & "never" cease. Jesus says it is "better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea". OTOH, if He had been a believer in endless punishment, He could have expressed that by saying it is better for them to have never lived, never been conceived, or that their parents had never known (had sex with) one another. Compare this anti-biblical Jewish view that the Lord Jesus Christ, Love Omnipotent, rejected:

"To every individual is apportioned two shares, one in hell and one in paradise. At death, however, the righteous man's portion in hell is exchanged, so that he has two in heaven, while the reverse is true in the case of sinners (Ḥag. 15a). Hence it would have been better for the latter not to have lived at all (Yeb. 63b)." http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/6558-gehenna

 

[ClementofA]

True, the people who go to hell and the second death do not ever come out alive.
Are never made righteous, and suffer an eternal age enduring destruction.
Only believers are saved.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-12 New King James Version (NKJV)
7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.

11 Therefore we also pray always for you that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfill all the good pleasure of His goodness and the work of faith with power, 12 that the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and you in Him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

The Greek word aionios, erroneously translated above as "everlasting", is the same Greek word that is often deceptively translated as eternal or everlasting at Mt.25:46.

2 Thess.1:9 is not a difficult text to reconcile with the Scriptural teaching of universal reconciliation(UR). Simply put it speaks of an indefinite duration (=aionias, often deceptively rendered eternal/everlasting) of destruction.

Therefore, whatever you understand by the word "destruction" - whether death, annihilation or ruin - the text is perfectly harmonious with UR passages of the Bible. Problem solved. Now you can rejoice in the Good News!

2Thess.1:9 Who, indeed, a penalty, shall pay—age-abiding destruction from the face of the Lord and from the glory of his might— (Rotherham)

9 who shall incur the justice of eonian extermination from the face of the Lord, and from the glory of His strength" (CLNT)

who shall suffer justice -- destruction age-during -- from the face of the Lord, and from the glory of his strength, (2 Thess 1:9, YLT)

A recent new translation by EO scholar David Bentley Hart reads: "Who shall pay the just reparation of ruin in the Age, coming from the face of the Lord and the glory of his might" (A Translation: The New Testament, 2017, Yale University Press).

Regarding the mistranslation "everlasting" or "eternal" in 2 Thess.1:9: "166 aiṓnios (an adjective, derived from 165 /aiṓn ("an age, having a particular character and quality") –
properly, "age-like" ("like-an-age"), i.e. an "age-characteristic" (the quality describing a particular age);..." Strong's Greek: 166. ???????
(aiónios) -- agelong, eternal

A Greek lexicon at the following url states re the Greek word olethron ("destruction") at 2 Thess.1:9:

"...Hierocles 14, 451b has the thought that the soul of the sinner in Hades is purified by the tortures of hell, and is saved thereby..."

https://translate.academic.ru/ὄλεθρος/el/xx/

As does p.702 of "A Greek–English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, 3rd ed. (BDAG)":

A Greek–English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, 3rd ed. (BDAG)
https://www.amazon.ca/Greek-English-Lexicon-Testament-Christian-Literature/dp/0226039331

Compare that above statement to:

"In Ancient Greek mythology, Olethros was the personification of Havoc and probably one of the Makhai. Olethros translates roughly in ancient Greek to "destruction", but often with a positive connotation, as in the destruction required for and preceding renewal."

Here we see "destruction" is for the good of the person:

... deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. (1Cor 5:5)
He who is finding his soul will be destroying it, and he who destroys his soul on My account will be finding it. (Mt.10:39)

Here we see destruction was temporary:

Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days." (Jn.2:19)

"Does the eschatological destruction of 2 Thessalonians 1:9 exclude all redemptive possibilities? Nothing in the text requires such a reading." Continued at:

https://afkimel.wordpress.com/2015/02/22/book-review-the-inescapable-love-of-god-part-5/

http://evangelicaluniversalist.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=213

Further re 2 Thess.1:9, Jason Pratt said:

"Which definitely refers to hopeful punishment (and expected salvation in the same day of the Lord to come), not annihilation, when Paul uses it to talk about handing the Stepmom-Sleeping Guy over to Satan for the whole-destruction of the flesh in 1 Cor 5:5.

"Paul compares it to a birth-pang, which is dangerous but hardly hopeless annihilation (and is generally regarded as very hopeful) at 1 Thess 5:3 (talking about the same day to come).

"Paul uses the term to describe people killed by God in the past at 1 Cor 10:10, which can hardly be annihilation unless the resurrection of the evil as well as the good is denied.

"2 Thess 1:9 uses phrases similar to those found in Isaiah 2, talking about the same coming event, which is part of a block of prophecy where those wholly ruined aren't annihilated, but eventually repent of their sins and go to the "survivors" of God's wrath to be reconciled to God, which God accepts washing them clean with spirit and with fire. (Isaiah 4.) Again, far from a result of hopeless annihilation.

"2 Thess 1 is actually one of my scriptural testimonies 'for' universal salvation."

http://evangelicaluniversalist.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=4087

Lamentations 3:22 and 3:31-33, The steadfast love of the Lord NEVER ceases, his mercies NEVER come to an end. . . .
Lam.3:31 For the Lord will NOT cast off FOR EVER:
32 For if He causes grief, Then He will have compassion According to His abundant lovingkindness. 33 For He does not afflict willingly Or grieve the SONS OF MEN.…

Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for ALL MANKIND for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for ALL MANKIND for life's justifying."

Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, THE MANY were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, THE MANY shall be constituted just."

http://www.hopebeyondhell.net/articles/further-study/eternity/

 

[mark kennedy]

The promise of the Lord is to restore all creation back into fellowship with Himself! He has declared this "by Himself." The slightest variance is total and complete failure! If ta pante does not mean the all, any deviation is failure, total and complete failure! If the Last Adam does not make the mass of mankind "righteous", the first Adam has succeeded in keeping the polus captive in sin. Again, total failure by the One who declares the same mass/polus made sinners destined to be made righteous. Total and complete failure by the Will of all wills!

"The whole of created life shall be delivered/set free/emancipated..."

Every last fallen son of Adam1 will not only be saved, every last one will be reconciled: every last one!>>>>>>>But there is more>>>>>

"Saved"...."reconciled" & "made righteous"

He does save all that are in Christ, call it failure if you will, because it's just hyperbole. God's nature does not change, the righteous requirements for salvation are based on God's divine attributes and eternal nature (Rom. 1:18-21). All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, who made this known but men suppress the truth in unrighteousness. The failure is our, our own conscience testifies against us, noe accusing now defending.

What God has done now is to reveal the righteousness of God in Christ, Jesus Christ is the only name under heaven by which a man must be saved. But some still cling to treachery and deciet, after Jesus washed his feet Judas got up and went out and betrayed him.for a price. About him Jesus said none will be lost except the son of perdition. Every life that comes into the world is in the Lambs book of life, until they go onto perdition, then their name is blotted out. God loses none that come to the light that gives light to every soul that comes into the world. But memo have loved darkness more then the light, but to as many as recieve him he gave power to become children of God. As the proverb says, all who hate me love death, if you curse the light and flee to the darkness then the darkness owns you forever.

God did not fail us, some made the moral failure in Adam a permenant condition by not believing the light of the gospel, that made known the righteousness of God in Christ leaving all without excuse. To go onto perdition is a personal choice just like repentance, just like God's soverign choice in election. When you choose to reject the gospel there is no longer any provision for sin, there is nok means for attaining rightesness. God indeed provided for the salvation of all but many are called but few are chosen. If your eye be whole the body is full of light, but if the eye be darkness, how great is that darkness.

Universalism is an afront to the gospel and has no biblical justification. The Scriptures teach a very different gospel, one that provides salvation to all who are in Christ, just as all in Adam all die in Christ all live. Except not all recieve the gospel, having eyes see not, having ears hear not.

It is not God's failure that the children of perdition are cast bodily into the lake of fire, there is a choice. Choose life.