The Restitution Of All Things A.K.A. Universalism

[FineLinen]

Universalism is an afront to the gospel and has no biblical justification. The Scriptures teach a very different gospel, one that provides salvation to all who are in Christ, just as all in Adam all die in Christ all live. Except not all recieve the gospel, having eyes see not, having ears hear not.

Hello again Mark: Will you please tell us what it means to be "IN" Christ?

 

[FineLinen]

Our God has in/ by His own will declared His intention of restoring the whole of created life back into Himself from whence it came! This is His "cherished" purpose to be consummated in the fulness of times when all of the heavens, the earth, and the underworld bow in antiphonal chorus of praise and worship IN the Name of all names, the Christ!

Notice the word IN, not at the Name, in the Name! Just be patient, our God is [the] Saviour of all/pas mankind! But wait there is more>>>>>>>>>

He is the Saviour/Soter "especially" of those who trust in Him/ who believe.

"From Him the all comes, through Him the all exists, and in Him the all ends..."

 

[sdowney717]

He does save all that are in Christ, call it failure if you will, because it's just hyperbole. God's nature does not change, the righteous requirements for salvation are based on God's divine attributes and eternal nature (Rom. 1:18-21). All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, who made this known but men suppress the truth in unrighteousness. The failure is our, our own conscience testifies against us, noe accusing now defending.

What God has done now is to reveal the righteousness of God in Christ, Jesus Christ is the only name under heaven by which a man must be saved. But some still cling to treachery and deciet, after Jesus washed his feet Judas got up and went out and betrayed him.for a price. About him Jesus said none will be lost except the son of perdition. Every life that comes into the world is in the Lambs book of life, until they go onto perdition, then their name is blotted out. God loses none that come to the light that gives light to every soul that comes into the world. But memo have loved darkness more then the light, but to as many as recieve him he gave power to become children of God. As the proverb says, all who hate me love death, if you curse the light and flee to the darkness then the darkness owns you forever.

God did not fail us, some made the moral failure in Adam a permenant condition by not believing the light of the gospel, that made known the righteousness of God in Christ leaving all without excuse. To go onto perdition is a personal choice just like repentance, just like God's soverign choice in election. When you choose to reject the gospel there is no longer any provision for sin, there is nok means for attaining rightesness. God indeed provided for the salvation of all but many are called but few are chosen. If your eye be whole the body is full of light, but if the eye be darkness, how great is that darkness.

Universalism is an afront to the gospel and has no biblical justification. The Scriptures teach a very different gospel, one that provides salvation to all who are in Christ, just as all in Adam all die in Christ all live. Except not all recieve the gospel, having eyes see not, having ears hear not.

It is not God's failure that the children of perdition are cast bodily into the lake of fire, there is a choice. Choose life.

The Greek word aionios, erroneously translated above as "everlasting", is the same Greek word that is often deceptively translated as eternal or everlasting at Mt.25:46.

2 Thess.1:9 is not a difficult text to reconcile with the Scriptural teaching of universal reconciliation(UR). Simply put it speaks of an indefinite duration (=aionias, often deceptively rendered eternal/everlasting) of destruction.

Therefore, whatever you understand by the word "destruction" - whether death, annihilation or ruin - the text is perfectly harmonious with UR passages of the Bible. Problem solved. Now you can rejoice in the Good News!

2Thess.1:9 Who, indeed, a penalty, shall pay—age-abiding destruction from the face of the Lord and from the glory of his might— (Rotherham)

9 who shall incur the justice of eonian extermination from the face of the Lord, and from the glory of His strength" (CLNT)

who shall suffer justice -- destruction age-during -- from the face of the Lord, and from the glory of his strength, (2 Thess 1:9, YLT)

A recent new translation by EO scholar David Bentley Hart reads: "Who shall pay the just reparation of ruin in the Age, coming from the face of the Lord and the glory of his might" (A Translation: The New Testament, 2017, Yale University Press).

Regarding the mistranslation "everlasting" or "eternal" in 2 Thess.1:9: "166 aiṓnios (an adjective, derived from 165 /aiṓn ("an age, having a particular character and quality") –
properly, "age-like" ("like-an-age"), i.e. an "age-characteristic" (the quality describing a particular age);..." Strong's Greek: 166. ???????
(aiónios) -- agelong, eternal

A Greek lexicon at the following url states re the Greek word olethron ("destruction") at 2 Thess.1:9:

"...Hierocles 14, 451b has the thought that the soul of the sinner in Hades is purified by the tortures of hell, and is saved thereby..."

https://translate.academic.ru/ὄλεθρος/el/xx/

As does p.702 of "A Greek–English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, 3rd ed. (BDAG)":

A Greek–English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, 3rd ed. (BDAG)
https://www.amazon.ca/Greek-English-Lexicon-Testament-Christian-Literature/dp/0226039331

Compare that above statement to:

"In Ancient Greek mythology, Olethros was the personification of Havoc and probably one of the Makhai. Olethros translates roughly in ancient Greek to "destruction", but often with a positive connotation, as in the destruction required for and preceding renewal."

Here we see "destruction" is for the good of the person:

... deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. (1Cor 5:5)
He who is finding his soul will be destroying it, and he who destroys his soul on My account will be finding it. (Mt.10:39)

Here we see destruction was temporary:

Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days." (Jn.2:19)

"Does the eschatological destruction of 2 Thessalonians 1:9 exclude all redemptive possibilities? Nothing in the text requires such a reading." Continued at:

https://afkimel.wordpress.com/2015/02/22/book-review-the-inescapable-love-of-god-part-5/

http://evangelicaluniversalist.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=213

Further re 2 Thess.1:9, Jason Pratt said:

"Which definitely refers to hopeful punishment (and expected salvation in the same day of the Lord to come), not annihilation, when Paul uses it to talk about handing the Stepmom-Sleeping Guy over to Satan for the whole-destruction of the flesh in 1 Cor 5:5.

"Paul compares it to a birth-pang, which is dangerous but hardly hopeless annihilation (and is generally regarded as very hopeful) at 1 Thess 5:3 (talking about the same day to come).

"Paul uses the term to describe people killed by God in the past at 1 Cor 10:10, which can hardly be annihilation unless the resurrection of the evil as well as the good is denied.

"2 Thess 1:9 uses phrases similar to those found in Isaiah 2, talking about the same coming event, which is part of a block of prophecy where those wholly ruined aren't annihilated, but eventually repent of their sins and go to the "survivors" of God's wrath to be reconciled to God, which God accepts washing them clean with spirit and with fire. (Isaiah 4.) Again, far from a result of hopeless annihilation.

"2 Thess 1 is actually one of my scriptural testimonies 'for' universal salvation."

http://evangelicaluniversalist.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=4087

Lamentations 3:22 and 3:31-33, The steadfast love of the Lord NEVER ceases, his mercies NEVER come to an end. . . .
Lam.3:31 For the Lord will NOT cast off FOR EVER:
32 For if He causes grief, Then He will have compassion According to His abundant lovingkindness. 33 For He does not afflict willingly Or grieve the SONS OF MEN.…

Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for ALL MANKIND for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for ALL MANKIND for life's justifying."

Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, THE MANY were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, THE MANY shall be constituted just."

http://www.hopebeyondhell.net/articles/further-study/eternity/

Your quoting verses about whom the Lord loves, that is His people. Whom the Lord loves he chastens, and He disciplines everyone whom He receives.
The Lord will not cast off forever, is being spoken of in regards to the Lord's people, not the unbelieving world.

The second death is death, not life. DEAD, they are dead, dead, dead. And they will never have life anyone who goes there to the second death. Their names are not found written in the book of life, no they are not the redeemed of the Lord.
If anyone is not redeemed, who are doomed to destruction, then they are destroyed.
Leviticus 27:29 No person under the ban, who may become doomed to destruction among men, shall be redeemed, but shall surely be put to death.

 

[mark kennedy]

Dear Mark: The Gospel is "good news" announced by angelic hosts who proclaim joy for all people. If your gospel is true joy will be limited to a few choice individuals, with the mass of mankind never ever knowing the joy of the Gospel of Jesus Christ! In fact, the mass of Adam 1 will not only experience joy, they have the pleasure of unending misery to look forward to.

You are only held accou

If your "gospel" is true the Master who refuses to allow broken pieces of fish and bread to not be lost/destroyed fails again. He will not allow remnants of fish and bread to be lost, but fails in His mission to reconcile the broken wrecks of Adam 1!

The Gospel=

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_gospel

Time for a hymn

[/QUOTE]

 

[FineLinen]

The second death is death, not life. DEAD, they are dead, dead, dead.

Is that a fact! I hate to disclose the fact that the Risen Christ preached to the "disobedient" dead, dead, dead. Would you like to tell us what the results were?

"..so abundant was God's grace, the grace which He, the possessor of all wisdom and understanding, lavished upon us, when He made known to us the secret of His will. And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it—the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in Heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him. In Him we also have been made heirs, having been chosen beforehand in accordance with the intention of Him whose might carries out in everything the design of His own will, so that we should be devoted to the extolling of His glorious attributes.."

 

[sdowney717]

Is that a fact! I hate to disclose the fact that the Risen Christ preached to the "disobedient" dead, dead, dead. Would you like to tell us what the results were?

"..so abundant was God's grace, the grace which He, the possessor of all wisdom and understanding, lavished upon us, when He made known to us the secret of His will. And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it—the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in Heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him. In Him we also have been made heirs, having been chosen beforehand in accordance with the intention of Him whose might carries out in everything the design of His own will, so that we should be devoted to the extolling of His glorious attributes.."

Romans 8 is about the glory which shall be revealed in the children of God, not all people.
Not everyone is a child of God, some are children of the devil.


18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. 23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. 24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.

 

[sdowney717]

People are dead in sin if they do not believe in Christ, and that means they do not have life, and they wont see life either.
John 3:36
He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

If you shall not see life, well then, your going to see nothing but death, physical and spiritual death.
All naturally born creatures see natural death. Only spiritually born of God people have spiritual life.
Holy angels never die, since they did not sin. The devil and his angels, and the demons are all spiritually dead too, otherwise they would live eternally with God having the divine nature of eternal life. Interesting to think the devil who is a spirit is spiritually dead. The slave does not abide in the house of the Lord forever, all those enslaved to sin are separated from life and die eventually being cut off the true vine, Christ who is the resurrection and the life..

Those who are spiritually dead are not in Christ.

 

[mark kennedy]

le sigh... surely you must know that we know YOU are the one flagrantly denying the doctrine of Christ, nobody here denies a 'hell' or the lake of fire... all you have to do is get in an argument about the real words behind 'forever' and 'eternal'...

i thought i would make it easy on you and PROVE to you that God would save 'ALL'... but i'll bet you didn't watch that video either...

now all of us come from where you are now... we WERE believers in eternal torture... we knew that doctrine inside and out... so we do not have to study to understand your point of view.

but YOU on the other hand, if you want to be worthy of this discussion, you must study.

watch the videos i sent to you.

all your doctrine is 'Oh my dog!!!! it says 'FIRE' and it says 'FOREVER'' aaaahhh, burning forever for unbelievers!!!

our doctrine comes from years of studying and seeking the Lord about a truth that means we will be hated by other Christians...

First of all universalism categorically rejects the doctrine of hell, that is by definition eternal damnation. I don't actually believe in eternal torture, I believe the body and soul are destroyed in the lake of fire. Be that as it may I may choose to watch some video I may not but all that is required to be worthy of this conversation is to be a member of Christian Forums. I'm all in favor of being built up in the faith by fellow believers but the gospel is clear on one point.

He that believes in him (christ) is not condemned but he that does not believe is condemned already because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God (John 3:18)

So you learned the doctrine of hell, that covers maybe 21 proof texts if memory serves. Universalism denies everyone of then and to reject the eternal consequences of rejecting Christ is to deny the gospel. You might have some sentimental reasons for embracing universalism but none of them are biblical. So far the meager appeals to a biblical basis has faltered at every turn. The truth is I have studied and I have no clue what video your talking about. It's my practice to revisit the Scriptures when confronted with doctrines that are contrary to the gospel. I've done a fair amount of study on the subject matter and clearly universalism is contrary to the clear testimony of Scripture.

 

[FineLinen]

Romans 8 is about the glory which shall be revealed in the children of God, not all people.
Not everyone is a child of God, some are children of the devil.


18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. 23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. 24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.

 

[FineLinen]

I suggest you read what you have highlighted......"The whole of created life shall be delivered." Not some of created life! The whole of created life shall be delivered! What part of "whole" are you missing?

 

[FineLinen]

First of all universalism categorically rejects the doctrine of hell, that is by definition eternal damnation. I don't actually believe in eternal torture, I believe the body and soul are destroyed in the lake of fire. Be that as it may I may choose to watch some video I may not but all that is required to be worthy of this conversation is to be a member of Christian Forums. I'm all in favor of being built up in the faith by fellow believers but the gospel is clear on one point.

He that believes in him (christ) is not condemned but he that does not believe is condemned already because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God (John 3:18)

So you learned the doctrine of hell, that covers maybe 21 proof texts if memory serves. Universalism denies everyone of then and to reject the eternal consequences of rejecting Christ is to deny the gospel. You might have some sentimental reasons for embracing universalism but none of them are biblical. So far the meager appeals to a biblical basis has faltered at every turn. The truth is I have studied and I have no clue what video your talking about. It's my practice to revisit the Scriptures when confronted with doctrines that are contrary to the gospel. I've done a fair amount of study on the subject matter and clearly universalism is contrary to the clear testimony of Scripture.

 

[FineLinen]

Mark posted

"First of all universalism categorically rejects the doctrine of hell, that is by definition eternal damnation"

Not so! Hell is consummated in the Lake of Fire & Divinity/theion/Deity! If hell prevails, God has failed again! No death, no hell, nothing separates His creation from Himself: NOTHING!

You need to rethink "eternal" & damnation (judgement). You do know that damnation is only found in KJV? Eternal only relates to the Aidios God and is in union with pantokrator!

https://www.biblestudytools.com/mark/16-16-compare.html

 

[ClementofA]

Your quoting verses about whom the Lord loves, that is His people. Whom the Lord loves he chastens, and He disciplines everyone whom He receives.

God loves the whole world (Jn.3:16). He's not an eternal sadist.

Mt.18:23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. 24 And when he had begun to reckon...
34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. 35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

Furthermore, the context of Matthew 5:25-26, both before & after those 2 verses, is making references to Gehenna. Verses 21-26 have to do with anger & being reconciled & v.22 warns of Gehenna. In verses 27-30 the subject is adultery & v.30 warns regarding Gehenna.

Matt 5:25-26 Come to terms quickly with your adversary before it is too late and you are dragged into court, handed over to an officer, and thrown in jail. I assure you that you won't be free again until you have paid the last penny.

"They must pay (as GMac says) the uttermost farthing -- which is to say, they must tender the forgiveness of their brethren that is owed, the repentance and sorrow for sin that is owed, etc. Otherwise they do stay in prison with the tormenters. (their guilt? their hate? their own filthiness?) At last resort, if they still refuse to let go that nasty pet they've been stroking, they must even suffer the outer darkness. God will remove Himself from them to the extent that He can do so without causing their existence to cease. As Tom Talbot points out so well, no sane person of free will (and the child must be sane and informed to have freedom) could possibly choose ultimate horror over ultimate delight throughout the unending ages." https://forum.evangelicaluniversalist.com/t/why-affirm-belief-in-hell/4967/12

The Lord will not cast off forever, is being spoken of in regards to the Lord's people, not the unbelieving world.

Do you see the words "SONS OF MEN" or "Lord's people":

Lamentations 3:22 and 3:31-33, The steadfast love of the Lord NEVER ceases, his mercies NEVER come to an end. . . .
Lam.3:31 For the Lord will NOT cast off FOR EVER:
32 For if He causes grief, Then He will have compassion According to His abundant lovingkindness. 33 For He does not afflict willingly Or grieve the SONS OF MEN.…

The second death is death, not life. DEAD, they are dead, dead, dead. And they will never have life anyone who goes there to the second death.

Death will be abolished (1 Cor.15:26). Then God will be "all in all" (v.28), and all who were in Adam will be "in Christ" (v.22).

"Just as surely as the abolition of slavery entails freedom for those formerly enslaved, the abolition of death entails life for those formerly dead."

Of course, like all sinners, which all men are before salvation, they must be saved before they can enter the New Jerusalem. That's why it's gates will never be shut.

On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there. (Rev.21:25)

The kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it:

24 The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it. 25 On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there. 26 The glory and honor of the nations will be brought into it.

How can they do that unless they were outside the city gates before?

"In the Book of Revelation, the phrase "kings of the earth" appears 7 times in Rev 6:15; 17:2,18; 18:3,9; 19:19; 21:24. In all but the last citation the kings of the earth are portrayed in Revelation as aligned with Mystery Babylon and are the enemies of God. Yet, in 21:24 we find that the "kings of the earth" will one day bring their splendor into the New Jerusalem. One must therefore ask how or why are the kings of the earth who are consistently and without exception portrayed in Revelation as evil and unrepentant, allowed into the New Jerusalem where "nothing unclean will ever enter it, nor anyone who does what is detestable or false, but only those who are written in the Lamb's book of life" (21:27). I cannot find any scriptural evidence that these kings of the earth are any different than the previous references. Therefore the only conclusion I can arrive at is it that appears that even the kings of the earth after having spent some unknown time in the lake of fire will one day repent and be allowed to enter into the New Jerusalem."

That recalls some other passages about kings:

Psalm 72:11
Yea, all kings shall fall down before him: all nations shall serve him.

Psalm 102:15
So the nations will fear the name of the LORD And all the kings of the earth Your glory.

Psalm 138:4
All the kings of the earth will give thanks to You, O LORD, When they have heard the words of Your mouth.

Isaiah 60
2"For behold, darkness will cover the earth And deep darkness the peoples; But the LORD will rise upon you And His glory will appear upon you. 3"Nations will come to your light, And kings to the brightness of your rising.

Isaiah 62:2
The nations will see your righteousness, And all kings your glory; And you will be called by a new name Which the mouth of the LORD will designate.

Revelation 21:24
By its light the nations will walk, and into it the kings of the earth will bring their glory.

This includes everyone in the universe, including the dead and demons:

Rev.5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are on the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

John speaks of "every creature" & to emphasize this again he repeats "and all that are in them":

Rev.5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are on the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

This worship (v.13) uses the same worshipful words as the redeemed of vs 9-10 use in v.12:

12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.

All this being in the context of salvation - "the Lamb that was slain" (v.12 & 13).

Revelation 5:13 speaks of a time beyond the punishment in the lake of fire.


Rev.15:4 Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest.

This sounds like just payback, not endless annihilation or tortures:

Rev.18:6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.

Rev.21:5 He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making all new!”

Their names are not found written in the book of life, no they are not the redeemed of the Lord.

Of course those in the LOF are not - yet - in the book of life. But they shall be:

Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for ALL MANKIND for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for ALL MANKIND for life's justifying."

Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, THE MANY were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, THE MANY shall be constituted just."

Paul makes a parallel between "the many" who were condemned & sinners and those who will be justified & constituted just.

“In Romans 5, the justification is co-extensive with the condemnation. Since all share in one, all share in the other. If only a certain portion of the human race had partaken of the sin of Adam, only a certain portion would partake of the justification of Christ. But St. Paul affirms all to have been involved in one, and all to be included in the other.”

Therefore there is salvation after death. And corrective punishment.

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

Jesus shall see of the travail of His soul & be satisfied. Not satisfied a little bit, but the vast majority fried alive forever.

"He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities." (Isa.53:11).

For how "many" (not few) did He "bear their iniquities"? All.

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

If anyone is not redeemed, who are doomed to destruction, then they are destroyed.
Leviticus 27:29 No person under the ban, who may become doomed to destruction among men, shall be redeemed, but shall surely be put to death.

Did you read the context & see the reference to animals. The verse & context say nothing about wicked people, the afterlife or final destiny:

Lev.27:28 Notwithstanding no devoted thing, that a man shall devote unto the LORD of all that he hath, both of man and beast, and of the field of his possession, shall be sold or redeemed: every devoted thing is most holy unto the LORD.

Would the Lord want wicked people to be "devoted unto the LORD"? Would He call such wicked people "most holy to the LORD"?

"...every person devoted to the service of God shall not be redeemed, but die in that devoted state,..."

"This announcement imported not that the person was to be sacrificed or doomed to a violent death; but only that he should remain till death unalterably in the devoted condition." http://biblehub.com/leviticus/27-29.htm

Lev.27:29:

Webster's Bible Translation
None devoted, which shall be devoted by men, shall be redeemed: but shall surely be put to death.
Douay-Rheims Bible
And any consecration that is offered by man, shall not be redeemed, but dying shall die.
Darby Bible Translation
Nothing devoted, which shall be devoted from among men, shall be ransomed: it shall certainly be put to death.
Brenton LXX
29 And whatever shall be dedicated of men, shall not be ransomed, but shall be surely put to death.
Apostolic Bible Polygot
29 And all, whatever should be presented from men, it shall not be ransomed, but to death it shall be put to death
https://studybible.info/ABP_Strongs/Leviticus 27

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/unique_proof_for_universalism.html

 

[mark kennedy]

Mark posted

"First of all universalism categorically rejects the doctrine of hell, that is by definition eternal damnation"

Not so! Hell is consummated in the Lake of Fire & Divinity/theion/Deity! If hell prevails, God has failed again! No death, no hell, nothing separates His creation from Himself: NOTHING!

You need to rethink "eternal" & damnation (judgement). You do know that damnation is only found in KJV? Eternal only relates to the Aidios God and is in union with pantokrator!

I have thought about it, and rethought it and presently revisiting the topic again. You don't deny there is a he'll just that it's permenant which is the exact opposite of what the Scriptures teach. God provides the gospel, the righteousness that is by faith and men have loved darkness more then light. The books are opened, the dead are judged and the children of perdition are cast bodily into the lake of fire. That's the clear testimony of Scripture, it's Jesus or hell. You keep chanting that God fails if one perished and that's just just emotive rhetoric. You guys try to pass yourself as well versed and pious but truth is I don't think you care what the Scriptures teach. You think it's mean or weak that God can't save everyone when God cannot change is righteous and holy nature. You either recieve the divine nature through Christ, in the power of the Holy Spirit or you perish in the flames of perdition, there is no third option. That's not my opinion, the Scriptures are crystal clear on this point.

 

[sdowney717]

I suggest you read what you have highlighted......"The whole of created life shall be delivered." Not some of created life! The whole of created life shall be delivered! What part of "whole" are you missing?

You take it all way out of context. The creation will be delivered from death, but people who do not believe will not be saved. All does not include unbelievers, only believers have life emphasized many times in scripture.
Some fine day of God's choice there will be new heavens and a new earth.

 

[needhugs]

i will leave it to others stronger than i...

i can no longer STAND to even hear about the hate, the fear, the cruelty

i just got up, and i'm going to work... have 'fun' y'all

 

[mark kennedy]

Hello again Mark: Will you please tell us what it means to be "IN" Christ?

Sure it's a Pauline expression that indicates the blessings and callings for the faithful. The Father blessed us with all the heavenly places, ' in Christ' (Eph. 1:3). In whom (mark that) we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace. (Eph. 1:7). This is all over the New Testament but Paul puts special emphasis on being ' In Christ'. In Johns Gospel, chapter 6 Jesus has just feed the 5000 and they want to make him.king by force. He tells them all you care about is that you ate and you help us were full.

And this is the will of the Father who has sent me, that of all which he has given me I shall lose nothing, but shall raise it up again on the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me that everyone that sees the son, and believes on him, may have everlasting life. (John 6:39-40).

It's translated believe on him, but the literal Greek reads more like believe into me. In Hebrews there is a description of Christ passing through the veil, into the Holy of Holies to make atonement for our sin. Then it describes our faith that holds firm like an anchor, that anchor is faith in Christ.

Physically we were in Adam and when our first parents ate we did not fast. When Abraham paid tithes to Melkezidek so did Levi, because he was still in Abraham.

So what do you think this means? 'For you are dead, and your life was hid with Christ in God (Col. 3:3). If you want to teach Christians their own Scriptures you really should get a handle on this very common, and kind of puzzling expression.

 

[mark kennedy]

You take it all way out of context. The creation will be delivered from death, but people who do not believe will not be saved. All does not include unbelievers, only believers have life emphasized many times in scripture.
Some fine day of God's choice there will be new heavens and a new earth.

I think there are many saved that never heard the gospel, it only makes sense if they never had the opportunity.

 

[mark kennedy]

i will leave it to others stronger than i...

i can no longer STAND to even hear about the hate, the fear, the cruelty

i just got up, and i'm going to work... have 'fun' y'all

Oh stop with the mellodrama, its not hate or fear or cruel to speak the truth in love. It's what happens when you tell Christians one thing and the Scrptures say another. Have a nice day at work.

 

[FineLinen]

You take it all way out of context. The creation will be delivered from death, but people who do not believe will not be saved. All does not include unbelievers, only believers have life emphasized many times in scripture.
Some fine day of God's choice there will be new heavens and a new earth.

Actually the context is very clear! The WHOLE of created life shall be delivered/set free/ emancipated! As far as people who do not believe: be patient, every knee bows, every tongue confesses IN the Name of Jesus..."You are Lord!" And no, such confession is NOT by perfunctory genuflections, NOT!