Annihilationism Is Actually...Biblical

[Jordan Henshaw]

My post [#348] this thread.

Holy cow. This is a long thread.

But it is still somewhat on topic, although it might be in order to split the Universalism debate into a fresh one.

Agree, all?

 

[ClementofA]

My post [#348] this thread.

I see no answer to the question there. I wonder if anyone else reading this thread thinks you answered the question there.

Maybe you can answer one simple question, yes or no:

Do you think 1 Cor.6:9-11 refutes universalism?

 

[Oseas]

I've never heard of Oceania. I'm pretty sure you mean Australia. No one says Oceania. Oceania sounds fun though.

Oceania - Wikipedia
Oceania (UK: /ˌoʊʃiˈɑːniə, ˌoʊsi-/[3] or US: /ˌoʊʃiːˈæniə/[4]) is a geographic region comprising Melanesia, Micronesia, Polynesia and Australasia.[5] Spanning the eastern and western hemispheres, Oceania covers an area of 8,525,989 square kilometres (3,291,903 sq mi) and has a population of 40 million. Situated in the southeast of the Asia Pacific region, Oceania is the smallest Continental grouping in land area and the second smallest in population after Antarctica.

 

[ClementofA]

Would you understand why someone might read that and think it is a little far fetched?

Not at all. What would be far fetched is a God Who is Love Omnipotent sending any of His creatures to endless punishment for the finite sins of a momentary existence (relative to eternity), no matter how evil they have been.

Because justice must be served. Our God is a just god.

Justice is already served in ending them forever. A trillion X a trillion X a trillion eons of years of torture would be a infinitely less of a punishment, if after that they were saved. Raising them just to suffer is just sadism.

Luke 12:47-48 - "That servant who knows his master’s will but does not get ready or follow his instructions will be beaten with many blows. 48But the one who unknowingly does things worthy of punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and from him who has been entrusted with much, even more will be demanded..."

This says nothing about annihilation or afterlife consequences. In universalism the LOF people will get lessor or greater punishment according to what they deserve.

Romans 2:6 - "God 'will repay each one according to his deeds.'”

Again it would be sadistic to raise those fated to annihilation just to be "repaid" - even more - with conscious pain - in addition to being annihilated. God isn't a sadist.

You are making the argument that it doesn't seem right that God would resurrect a dead man just to punish and destroy Him forever. So either the dead, wicked man must be raised to life, or not at all.

I don't think this is a valid argument because that's just not how justice works.

A person on death row is not killed in his/her sleep. No. That wouldn't be fair.

I don't know exactly how they do it, but in many places they don't use hanging or electrocution any more. I assume because it is considered inhumane & potentially more painful than just putting a person to sleep with drugs. Quite a different idea than your annihilationist concept of raising them to be judged, give an account to themselves, beaten with few or many stripes & then throw away like garbage into the LOF.

If you shot up a school and massacred dozens of innocent schoolchildren, your punishment should be something much greater than a peaceful, unconscious death in slumber. At least I don't think so.

Why isn't loss of their very being & existence for all eternity, plus loss of endless bliss in heaven not enough of a punishment? That is absolutely, unbelievably horrific. Relative to that a few or many stripes is practically nothing, yet still pointless & sadistic.

You're using basic, human principles of justice, so I think it's OK for me to use basic principles of human justice as well. And anyhow, who are we to judge God? Sure, we can look at something ridiculously insane like, "God will torture everyone who doesn't love Him forever" and call it the most evil thing a sentient being could possibly do with just an ounce of regular common sense, but on the smaller things, we really can't judge Him. We can't say that it would be unfair for God to wake people up just to kill them, especially when we do it ourselves (in America at least) to people on death row, and especially when God has given us a very clear, humane, sensible reason for doing so.

What is the reason the death row condemned are not needled while asleep? Is it an issue of they deserve to suffer conscious terror of dying, as if that is significant in light of them already experiencing the same for months or years prior to execution? Or is the point to give them an opportunity to say some last words in public & allow others to attend?

 

[Der Alte]

I see no answer to the question there. I wonder if anyone else reading this thread thinks you answered the question there.
Maybe you can answer one simple question, yes or no:
Do you think 1 Cor.6:9-11 refutes universalism?

It does until you or some other uni can show me where Paul told the Christians in Corinth, Galatia and Ephesus that all those groups Paul said would not inherit the kingdom of God would inherit the kingdom after death.

 

[Jordan Henshaw]

What would be far fetched is a God Who is Love Omnipotent sending any of His creatures to endless punishment for the finite sins of a momentary existence (relative to eternity), no matter how evil they have been.

I sort of agree with this, but the easy rebuttal the ECT guys will use is the, if it only takes a millisecond of wrongdoing to pull the trigger to murder someone, why should you spend the rest of their lives in jail for it?

But of course when you actually realize that eternity is utterly, totally disproportionate to the length of life here on earth, the pulling the trigger counter just doesn't work - for me at least.

Justice is already served in ending them forever. A trillion X a trillion X a trillion eons of years of torture would be a infinitely less of a punishment, if after that they were saved. Raising them just to suffer is just sadism.

How well does this work when you apply it to people like Hitler? Do you think that raising Hitler just to suffer is sadism as well? Or do you think he deserves to be punished for the terrible atrocities he committed on earth? If he died in his sleep in freedom and peace, would you think it just for God to raise him from the dead to render him justice? Or is that somehow sadistic?

This says nothing about annihilation or afterlife consequences. In the LOF people will get lessor or greater punishment according to what they deserve.

Not everything has to speak directly to the OP to be relevant. I was trying to show how God certainly does plan to punish wrongdoing justly and is NOT going to just let them remain dead for eternity. Does it refute your position? Not at all. But it clarifies my position.

Again it would be sadistic to raise those fated to annihilation just to be "repaid" - even more - with conscious pain - in addition to being annihilated. God isn't a sadist.

I see where you're coming from, but I really don't think it's a strong argument. It does seem inhumane to raise someone from the dead just to punish them and them destroy them forever. But this is really a grey area. It's human speculation. I'm not going to base an entire theology on it. It's just not strong at all. And no, it's not sadistic. But it may seem a bit inhumane and unnecessary, at least from our human perspective.

Why isn't loss of their very being & existence for all eternity, plus loss of endless bliss in heaven not enough of a punishment? That is absolutely, unbelievably horrific.

Let's get a few things straight, because I think we're both getting confused about who is coming from where:

I am saying that the wicked will be resurrected, will come to understand that what they are missing out on, will weep and gnash their teeth, will be cast into the LOF, and will suffer until their sin has burned up (the stripes verse - proportion - the kid in Africa who led a life of sacrifice and service and yet never heard the name of Jesus once will suffer much, much less than the guy who heard the name Jesus every day of his life), and then they will be turned to ashes and will remain destroyed (forever).

Der Alter is arguing most of the above, except that the suffering is endless, and that perhaps some places in Hell are hotter than others.

You are arguing most of the above, I believe, except that after all that happens, the wicked will be resurrected a second time to receive a second chance at salvation, and then a third, fourth, fifth, etc. until everyone has been saved. (Please correct me if I am wrong.)

That being said, in my view, "loss of their very being & existence for all eternity, plus loss of endless bliss in heaven" is not a punishment at all unless they are resurrected back into consciousness to be able to realize what they are missing out on. You can't feel sorry you missed out on something great that will happen after your death if you are still dead. Because you are dead. People who died 1,000 years ago are not upset at the fact that they can't travel to the moon like people today can. Because they are dead. If you go to sleep and people start partying without you, you're not going to feel jealous and sad until you have woken up to find out about all the fun everyone else was having without you. You have to wake up first. Likewise, the wicked have to be resurrected at some point in order to be punished at all, with anything.

So I'm not sure you understand what I am arguing.

 

[Jordan Henshaw]

It does until you or some other uni can show me where Paul told the Christians in Corinth, Galatia and Ephesus that all those groups Paul said would not inherit the kingdom of God would inherit the kingdom after death.

I'm not a Universalist, but I understand where they are coming from and see that the Corinthians verse doesn't work against it. Because they don't argue that all those bad groups of people go to heaven, but instead, that everyone goes from the bad group of people to the good group of people. They don't see the negative label is static and unchangeable - and rightfully so. Paul himself was once in that group. Every christian was once in that group. So it's not a stretch to say that while people in this group won't go to heaven, everyone will leave that boat and will go to the good boat and will all be saved.

At least within the context of this one verse.

I think you are making the mistake of assuming that those labels he put on people are static and unchangeable.

 

[Jordan Henshaw]

Oceania - Wikipedia
Oceania (UK: /ˌoʊʃiˈɑːniə, ˌoʊsi-/[3] or US: /ˌoʊʃiːˈæniə/[4]) is a geographic region comprising Melanesia, Micronesia, Polynesia and Australasia.[5] Spanning the eastern and western hemispheres, Oceania covers an area of 8,525,989 square kilometres (3,291,903 sq mi) and has a population of 40 million. Situated in the southeast of the Asia Pacific region, Oceania is the smallest Continental grouping in land area and the second smallest in population after Antarctica.

Huh. Ya learn something new every day.

 

[Oseas]

[QUOTE Jordan Henshaw, post #385] I've never heard of Oceania. I'm pretty sure you mean Australia. No one says Oceania. Oceania sounds fun though.[/QUOTE]

Oceania (Australia is in Oceania) is one of the 7 heads of the Beast (first Beast - Rev.13:1to10) who did rise up out of the sea (sea=waters=are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. Rev.17:v.15. The 7 heads are not the 7 hills of Rome, where is the Vatican city, but the 7 regions of the Earth. This first Beast is a Gentile Beast, and his powerful religious system is reinging since ancient time in whole Earth. See, now will rise up out of the earth (earth here is Israel) another Beast, a Jewish Beast, which will manifest himself as a messiah of the Jews, a false messiah, an imposter, an usurper (John 5:43). The Jews are waiting their peculiar messiah, not JESUS. Then there will be TWO BEASTS on the Earth in near future.

What is the name of the false messiah of the Jews, The Red Dragon, the own Satan incarnated, an ex-Cherub or former Cherub? Will be the kabbalistic rabbi Eliyahu Bakshi-Doron? Will be? If it be we will see soon.

Rev. 13:v.18 - Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the Beast: for it is the number of a man; THE NUMBER OF HIS NAME, and his number is: Six hundred threescore and six.

This biblical subject is the most important in this site of Internet and is very timely, because the manifestation of this satanic character is at the door, it must happen in very near future. Is everyone ready? One thing is certain, the kabbalistic rabi and false messiah must manifest himself soon.

See, Incidentally, to move the US embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, which is to be followed by other nations, was not a mere act of the government of USA, yes, this happening is not by chance, but to pave the way for the appearance of the second Beast, which rises from the earth (Rev.13: 11-18), the 666. See, this second Beast which rises up out from the earth is very different from the first Beast, which rose up out from the sea (Rev.13: 1to10).

Lets analyse these two Beasts, beginning by the Beast which rose up out of the sea, the first Beast. Scriptures reveal that the first Beast came up out of the sea, that is, he came out of the midst of the waters. The angel of the Lord said to John, "The waters which thou sawest are peoples, nations, multitudes, and tongues" (Rev.17: 15). The same angel of the Lord told John that the Beast that came up out of the sea has 7 heads and 10 horns, and he explained that here is the mind which has wisdom.

7 heads are 7 hills and 7 kings (Rev.17:9-10), so 7 heads mean two (2) very different things to each other: 7 mounts & 7 kings.
10 horns are also 10 kings. (Rev.17:v.12)

First, how to identify the 7 heads, knowing that they are 7 mounts? The theories which have been spread until now is that they are the 7 hills of Rome, where the great City of Vatican is built. Will be? I am sure not, and I explain below. Furthermore, the name of each hill is known of all.

But why can not the 7 hills of Rome be the 7 heads of the Beast, which is enthroned in the Vatican City? It because one(1) of the 7 heads of the Beast is wounded to death; and his deadly wound will be healed: and all the world will be wondered after the Beast (Rev.13:v.8). (The question is: Can a hill be wounded to death? Of course not, then the hills of Rome are not the 7 heads of the Beast). And they (the nations) worshipped the Dragon which gave power unto the Beast (unto the first Beast): and they worshipped the Beast, saying, Who is like unto the Beast? who is able to make war with him? (Rev.13:v.4) (Who is him? He is the Pope, really.)

If the 7 heads are not the 7 hills of Rome, then what mean the 7 heads of the Beast? The 7 heads mean 7 distincts regions of the Earth: Europe, Asia, Africa, Oceania, North America, South America and Central America, in whose regions the Gentile Beast, who is the Pope, and the WOMAN, which rides upon the Beast, the Roman Catholic Church, is sitting upon many Waters, that are peoples, nations,multitudes and tongues. Yea, the satanic and religious structures of the WOMAN are built in the 7 regions of the Earth, the 7 heads of the Beast, but one of the head will be wounded to death.

The question is: Which of the 7 heads of the Beast will be mortally wounded? The answer of this question is: It will be the region of South America, starting with the Country called Brazil, and it is already running. After the deadly wound be healed, there will give unto the Beast a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and power will be given unto him to continue forty and two months, or 1.260 days, in accord Christian Calendar.

(Rev. 17:v.1-3) The angel of the Lord said: 1 Come hither; I will shew unto thee the Judgment of the GREAT harlot that sitteth upon many Waters . . . 2 With whom the kings of the earth (KINGS/GOVERNMENTS OF ALL NATIONS) have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. 3 So ... I saw a WOMAN sit upon a scarlet coloured Beast (the Pope), full of names of blasphemy, having 7 heads and ten horns (ten kings).

Well, the 7 heads are also 7 kings. Who are them? The expression “kings” are figurative, has nothing to do with the kings of the United Kingdom or any other reign, but with a lineage of Popes. How many Popes have existed until today? 264 Popes. Who are the 7 named in the Apocalypse? They are specifically the lineage of the Popes Paul: Paul I (757-767) Paul II(1464-1471) Paul III (1534-1549) Paul IV(1555-1559) Paul V (1605-1621) and Paul VI (1963-1978). Paul VII, which will come yet, and he must be the last Pope.
About the 10 kings.
Who or what are these 10 kings without any reign? These 10 kings are linked with the first Beast which rose up out of the sea (a Gentile Beast), who is the Pope, but they did not commit any fornication with the Great harlot like the other kings of the nations (governments) which committed fornication with the Great harlot, it because they are not of any Gentile nation, they are a lineage of Jewish tribes, specifically the 10 tribes of Israel that rebelled themselves against the house of David, by the way, this fact explains the why they refused JESUS, for our Lord JESUS is of the house of David. They received not yet the kingdom because the false messiah did not manifest himself yet in Israel. As soon as the false messiah of the Jews is manifested (the true one is JESUS and they rejected and crucified Him), then the false messiah and the strong religious system of the Jews will make a deal with the Beast of Rome, the Pope, to build the fifth and last Universal Empire, the Empire of Antichrist, a religious and satanic Universal Empire, figured in the feet and 10 toes, in part of iron and in part of clay, of the great statue of Nebuchadnezzar’s dream. Daniel 2:27to49.

With the manifestation of the false messiah of the Jews in the days ahead, the Jewish Beast who will come up out of the Earth (the Earth is Israel);and he had two horns like a lamb (a false lamb, a false messiah), and he spake as a Dragon.2 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast (the Pope) before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first Beast, whose deadly wound was healed. And he doeth great wonders, so that he (the esoteric and kabbalist false messiah, the own Satan incarnated) will make fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, and will deceive them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the Beast (in the sight of the Pope); saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast (to the first Beast), which had the wound by a Sword (the Word of God), and did live.
After this satanic Event of the appearance of the esoteric and false messiah of the Jews, there will be TWO STRONG BEASTS on the Earth. The Gentile Beast of Rome, enthroned in the Vatican City, the guide of the Woman, the Great harlot, the Roman Catholic Church, that rides upon the Beast, the Pope, and the Jewish Beast, the esoteric and false messiah of the Jews, the 666, who will be enthroned in Jerusalem, whose coming is afterthe working of Satan, the Red Dragon, with all power and signs and lying wonders, and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

The number 666
There are many theories and speculations about the number of 666. The Complete Jewish Bible says that the Beast (the false messiah) will forces everyone — great and small, rich and poor, free and slave — to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead , preventing anyone from buying or selling unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name. This is where wisdom is needed; those who understand should count the number of the beast, for it is the number of a person, and its number is 666. (Revelation 13:v.16-18).

We know the name of The true Messiah of the Jews, His name is is JESUS.

What is the name of the false messiah of the Jews, the own Satan incarnated, an ex-Cherub or former Cherub? Will be the kabbalistic rabbi Eliyahu Bakshi-Doron? Will be? If it be we will see soon. Will be he the angel of the abyss?

ELIYAHU BAKSHI DORON
ABADDON (in English language)

ABADON (in Portuguese language – latin language)
ABADDON is the angel of the bottomless pit. Hebrew tongue.

E U I
L B D
I A O
Y K R
A S O

H H N
6 6 6

 

[Oseas]

[QUOTE Jordan Henshaw, post #385] I've never heard of Oceania. I'm pretty sure you mean Australia. No one says Oceania. Oceania sounds fun though.

Oceania (Australia is in Oceania) is one of the 7 heads of the Beast (first Beast - Rev.13:1to10) who did rise up out of the sea (sea=waters=are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. Rev.17:v.15. The 7 heads are not the 7 hills of Rome, where is the Vatican city, but the 7 regions of the Earth. This first Beast is a Gentile Beast, and his powerful religious system is reinging since ancient time in whole Earth. See, now will rise up out of the earth (earth here is Israel) another Beast, a Jewish Beast, which will manifest himself as a messiah of the Jews, a false messiah, an imposter, an usurper (John 5:43). The Jews are waiting their peculiar messiah, not JESUS. Then there will be TWO BEASTS on the Earth in near future.

What is the name of the false messiah of the Jews, The Red Dragon, the own Satan incarnated, an ex-Cherub or former Cherub? Will be the kabbalistic rabbi Eliyahu Bakshi-Doron? Will be? If it be we will see soon.

Rev. 13:v.18 - Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the Beast: for it is the number of a man; THE NUMBER OF HIS NAME, and his number is: Six hundred threescore and six.

This biblical subject is the most important in this site of Internet and is very timely, because the manifestation of this satanic character is at the door, it must happen in very near future. Is everyone ready? One thing is certain, the kabbalistic rabi and false messiah must manifest himself soon.

See, Incidentally, to move the US embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, which is to be followed by other nations, was not a mere act of the government of USA, yes, this happening is not by chance, but to pave the way for the appearance of the second Beast, which rises from the earth (Rev.13: 11-18), the 666. See, this second Beast which rises up out from the earth is very different from the first Beast, which rose up out from the sea (Rev.13: 1to10).

Lets analyse these two Beasts, beginning by the Beast which rose up out of the sea, the first Beast. Scriptures reveal that the first Beast came up out of the sea, that is, he came out of the midst of the waters. The angel of the Lord said to John, "The waters which thou sawest are peoples, nations, multitudes, and tongues" (Rev.17: 15). The same angel of the Lord told John that the Beast that came up out of the sea has 7 heads and 10 horns, and he explained that here is the mind which has wisdom.

7 heads are 7 hills and 7 kings (Rev.17:9-10), so 7 heads mean two (2) very different things to each other: 7 mounts & 7 kings.
10 horns are also 10 kings. (Rev.17:v.12)

First, how to identify the 7 heads, knowing that they are 7 mounts? The theories which have been spread until now is that they are the 7 hills of Rome, where the great City of Vatican is built. Will be? I am sure not, and I explain below. Furthermore, the name of each hill is known of all.

But why can not the 7 hills of Rome be the 7 heads of the Beast, which is enthroned in the Vatican City? It because one(1) of the 7 heads of the Beast is wounded to death; and his deadly wound will be healed: and all the world will be wondered after the Beast (Rev.13:v.8). (The question is: Can a hill be wounded to death? Of course not, then the hills of Rome are not the 7 heads of the Beast). And they (the nations) worshipped the Dragon which gave power unto the Beast (unto the first Beast): and they worshipped the Beast, saying, Who is like unto the Beast? who is able to make war with him? (Rev.13:v.4) (Who is him? He is the Pope, really.)

If the 7 heads are not the 7 hills of Rome, then what mean the 7 heads of the Beast? The 7 heads mean 7 distincts regions of the Earth: Europe, Asia, Africa, Oceania, North America, South America and Central America, in whose regions the Gentile Beast, who is the Pope, and the WOMAN, which rides upon the Beast, the Roman Catholic Church, is sitting upon many Waters, that are peoples, nations,multitudes and tongues. Yea, the satanic and religious structures of the WOMAN are built in the 7 regions of the Earth, the 7 heads of the Beast, but one of the head will be wounded to death.

The question is: Which of the 7 heads of the Beast will be mortally wounded? The answer of this question is: It will be the region of South America, starting with the Country called Brazil, and it is already running. After the deadly wound be healed, there will give unto the Beast a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and power will be given unto him to continue forty and two months, or 1.260 days, in accord Christian Calendar.

(Rev. 17:v.1-3) The angel of the Lord said: 1 Come hither; I will shew unto thee the Judgment of the GREAT harlot that sitteth upon many Waters . . . 2 With whom the kings of the earth (KINGS/GOVERNMENTS OF ALL NATIONS) have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. 3 So ... I saw a WOMAN sit upon a scarlet coloured Beast (the Pope), full of names of blasphemy, having 7 heads and ten horns (ten kings).

Well, the 7 heads are also 7 kings. Who are them? The expression “kings” are figurative, has nothing to do with the kings of the United Kingdom or any other reign, but with a lineage of Popes. How many Popes have existed until today? 264 Popes. Who are the 7 named in the Apocalypse? They are specifically the lineage of the Popes Paul: Paul I (757-767) Paul II(1464-1471) Paul III (1534-1549) Paul IV(1555-1559) Paul V (1605-1621) and Paul VI (1963-1978). Paul VII, which will come yet, and he must be the last Pope.
About the 10 kings.
Who or what are these 10 kings without any reign? These 10 kings are linked with the first Beast which rose up out of the sea (a Gentile Beast), who is the Pope, but they did not commit any fornication with the Great harlot like the other kings of the nations (governments) which committed fornication with the Great harlot, it because they are not of any Gentile nation, they are a lineage of Jewish tribes, specifically the 10 tribes of Israel that rebelled themselves against the house of David, by the way, this fact explains the why they refused JESUS, for our Lord JESUS is of the house of David. They received not yet the kingdom because the false messiah did not manifest himself yet in Israel. As soon as the false messiah of the Jews is manifested (the true one is JESUS and they rejected and crucified Him), then the false messiah and the strong religious system of the Jews will make a deal with the Beast of Rome, the Pope, to build the fifth and last Universal Empire, the Empire of Antichrist, a religious and satanic Universal Empire, figured in the feet and 10 toes, in part of iron and in part of clay, of the great statue of Nebuchadnezzar’s dream. Daniel 2:27to49.

With the manifestation of the false messiah of the Jews in the days ahead, the Jewish Beast who will come up out of the Earth (the Earth is Israel);and he had two horns like a lamb (a false lamb, a false messiah), and he spake as a Dragon.2 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast (the Pope) before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first Beast, whose deadly wound was healed. And he doeth great wonders, so that he (the esoteric and kabbalist false messiah, the own Satan incarnated) will make fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, and will deceive them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the Beast (in the sight of the Pope); saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast (to the first Beast), which had the wound by a Sword (the Word of God), and did live.
After this satanic Event of the appearance of the esoteric and false messiah of the Jews, there will be TWO STRONG BEASTS on the Earth. The Gentile Beast of Rome, enthroned in the Vatican City, the guide of the Woman, the Great harlot, the Roman Catholic Church, that rides upon the Beast, the Pope, and the Jewish Beast, the esoteric and false messiah of the Jews, the 666, who will be enthroned in Jerusalem, whose coming is afterthe working of Satan, the Red Dragon, with all power and signs and lying wonders, and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

The number 666
There are many theories and speculations about the number of 666. The Complete Jewish Bible says that the Beast (the false messiah) will forces everyone — great and small, rich and poor, free and slave — to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead , preventing anyone from buying or selling unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name. This is where wisdom is needed; those who understand should count the number of the beast, for it is the number of a person, and its number is 666. (Revelation 13:v.16-18).

We know the name of The true Messiah of the Jews, His name is is JESUS.

What is the name of the false messiah of the Jews, the own Satan incarnated, an ex-Cherub or former Cherub? Will be the kabbalistic rabbi Eliyahu Bakshi-Doron? Will be? If it be we will see soon. Will be he the angel of the abyss?

ELIYAHU BAKSHI DORON
ABADDON (in English language)

ABADON (in Portuguese language – latin language)
ABADDON is the angel of the bottomless pit. Hebrew tongue.

...........................E......U.......I
...........................L......B.......D
...........................I......A.......O
...........................Y......K.......R ABADDON
...........................A......S.......O
...........................H......H.......N
6 6 6
[/QUOTE]

 

[Oseas]

Oceania (Australia is in Oceania) is one of the 7 heads of the Beast (first Beast - Rev.13:1to10) who did rise up out of the sea (sea=waters=are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. Rev.17:v.15. The 7 heads are not the 7 hills of Rome, where is the Vatican city, but the 7 regions of the Earth. This first Beast is a Gentile Beast, and his powerful religious system is reinging since ancient time in whole Earth. See, now will rise up out of the earth (earth here is Israel) another Beast, a Jewish Beast, which will manifest himself as a messiah of the Jews, a false messiah, an imposter, an usurper (John 5:43). The Jews are waiting their peculiar messiah, not JESUS. Then there will be TWO BEASTS on the Earth in near future.

What is the name of the false messiah of the Jews, The Red Dragon, the own Satan incarnated, an ex-Cherub or former Cherub? Will be the kabbalistic rabbi Eliyahu Bakshi-Doron? Will be? If it be we will see soon.

Rev. 13:v.18 - Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the Beast: for it is the number of a man; THE NUMBER OF HIS NAME, and his number is: Six hundred threescore and six.

This biblical subject is the most important in this site of Internet and is very timely, because the manifestation of this satanic character is at the door, it must happen in very near future. Is everyone ready? One thing is certain, the kabbalistic rabi and false messiah must manifest himself soon.

See, Incidentally, to move the US embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, which is to be followed by other nations, was not a mere act of the government of USA, yes, this happening is not by chance, but to pave the way for the appearance of the second Beast, which rises from the earth (Rev.13: 11-18), the 666. See, this second Beast which rises up out from the earth is very different from the first Beast, which rose up out from the sea (Rev.13: 1to10).

Lets analyse these two Beasts, beginning by the Beast which rose up out of the sea, the first Beast. Scriptures reveal that the first Beast came up out of the sea, that is, he came out of the midst of the waters. The angel of the Lord said to John, "The waters which thou sawest are peoples, nations, multitudes, and tongues" (Rev.17: 15). The same angel of the Lord told John that the Beast that came up out of the sea has 7 heads and 10 horns, and he explained that here is the mind which has wisdom.

7 heads are 7 hills and 7 kings (Rev.17:9-10), so 7 heads mean two (2) very different things to each other: 7 mounts & 7 kings.
10 horns are also 10 kings. (Rev.17:v.12)

First, how to identify the 7 heads, knowing that they are 7 mounts? The theories which have been spread until now is that they are the 7 hills of Rome, where the great City of Vatican is built. Will be? I am sure not, and I explain below. Furthermore, the name of each hill is known of all.

But why can not the 7 hills of Rome be the 7 heads of the Beast, which is enthroned in the Vatican City? It because one(1) of the 7 heads of the Beast is wounded to death; and his deadly wound will be healed: and all the world will be wondered after the Beast (Rev.13:v.8). (The question is: Can a hill be wounded to death? Of course not, then the hills of Rome are not the 7 heads of the Beast). And they (the nations) worshipped the Dragon which gave power unto the Beast (unto the first Beast): and they worshipped the Beast, saying, Who is like unto the Beast? who is able to make war with him? (Rev.13:v.4) (Who is him? He is the Pope, really.)

If the 7 heads are not the 7 hills of Rome, then what mean the 7 heads of the Beast? The 7 heads mean 7 distincts regions of the Earth: Europe, Asia, Africa, Oceania, North America, South America and Central America, in whose regions the Gentile Beast, who is the Pope, and the WOMAN, which rides upon the Beast, the Roman Catholic Church, is sitting upon many Waters, that are peoples, nations,multitudes and tongues. Yea, the satanic and religious structures of the WOMAN are built in the 7 regions of the Earth, the 7 heads of the Beast, but one of the head will be wounded to death.

The question is: Which of the 7 heads of the Beast will be mortally wounded? The answer of this question is: It will be the region of South America, starting with the Country called Brazil, and it is already running. After the deadly wound be healed, there will give unto the Beast a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and power will be given unto him to continue forty and two months, or 1.260 days, in accord Christian Calendar.

(Rev. 17:v.1-3) The angel of the Lord said: 1 Come hither; I will shew unto thee the Judgment of the GREAT harlot that sitteth upon many Waters . . . 2 With whom the kings of the earth (KINGS/GOVERNMENTS OF ALL NATIONS) have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. 3 So ... I saw a WOMAN sit upon a scarlet coloured Beast (the Pope), full of names of blasphemy, having 7 heads and ten horns (ten kings).

Well, the 7 heads are also 7 kings. Who are them? The expression “kings” are figurative, has nothing to do with the kings of the United Kingdom or any other reign, but with a lineage of Popes. How many Popes have existed until today? 264 Popes. Who are the 7 named in the Apocalypse? They are specifically the lineage of the Popes Paul: Paul I (757-767) Paul II(1464-1471) Paul III (1534-1549) Paul IV(1555-1559) Paul V (1605-1621) and Paul VI (1963-1978). Paul VII, which will come yet, and he must be the last Pope.
About the 10 kings.
Who or what are these 10 kings without any reign? These 10 kings are linked with the first Beast which rose up out of the sea (a Gentile Beast), who is the Pope, but they did not commit any fornication with the Great harlot like the other kings of the nations (governments) which committed fornication with the Great harlot, it because they are not of any Gentile nation, they are a lineage of Jewish tribes, specifically the 10 tribes of Israel that rebelled themselves against the house of David, by the way, this fact explains the why they refused JESUS, for our Lord JESUS is of the house of David. They received not yet the kingdom because the false messiah did not manifest himself yet in Israel. As soon as the false messiah of the Jews is manifested (the true one is JESUS and they rejected and crucified Him), then the false messiah and the strong religious system of the Jews will make a deal with the Beast of Rome, the Pope, to build the fifth and last Universal Empire, the Empire of Antichrist, a religious and satanic Universal Empire, figured in the feet and 10 toes, in part of iron and in part of clay, of the great statue of Nebuchadnezzar’s dream. Daniel 2:27to49.

With the manifestation of the false messiah of the Jews in the days ahead, the Jewish Beast who will come up out of the Earth (the Earth is Israel);and he had two horns like a lamb (a false lamb, a false messiah), and he spake as a Dragon.2 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast (the Pope) before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first Beast, whose deadly wound was healed. And he doeth great wonders, so that he (the esoteric and kabbalist false messiah, the own Satan incarnated) will make fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, and will deceive them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the Beast (in the sight of the Pope); saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast (to the first Beast), which had the wound by a Sword (the Word of God), and did live.
After this satanic Event of the appearance of the esoteric and false messiah of the Jews, there will be TWO STRONG BEASTS on the Earth. The Gentile Beast of Rome, enthroned in the Vatican City, the guide of the Woman, the Great harlot, the Roman Catholic Church, that rides upon the Beast, the Pope, and the Jewish Beast, the esoteric and false messiah of the Jews, the 666, who will be enthroned in Jerusalem, whose coming is afterthe working of Satan, the Red Dragon, with all power and signs and lying wonders, and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

The number 666
There are many theories and speculations about the number of 666. The Complete Jewish Bible says that the Beast (the false messiah) will forces everyone — great and small, rich and poor, free and slave — to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead , preventing anyone from buying or selling unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name. This is where wisdom is needed; those who understand should count the number of the beast, for it is the number of a person, and its number is 666. (Revelation 13:v.16-18).

We know the name of The true Messiah of the Jews, His name is is JESUS.

What is the name of the false messiah of the Jews, the own Satan incarnated, an ex-Cherub or former Cherub? Will be the kabbalistic rabbi Eliyahu Bakshi-Doron? Will be? If it be we will see soon. Will be he the angel of the abyss?

ELIYAHU BAKSHI DORON
Apollyon (in English language)
ABBADON (in English language)
ABADDON/APOLLYON is the angel of the bottomless pit. Hebrew and Greek tongue.

...........................E......U.......I
...........................L......B.......D
...........................I......A.......O
...........................Y......K.......R ABADDON
...........................A......S.......O
...........................H......H.......N
...........................6 6 6

[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE="Oseas, post: 72467320, member:]
...........................E......U.......I
...........................L......B.......D
...........................I......A.......O
...........................Y......K.......R APOLLYON
...........................A......S.......O
...........................H......H.......N
.......................6.....6......6
[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

 

[ClementofA]

It does until you or some other uni can show me where Paul told the Christians in Corinth, Galatia and Ephesus that all those groups Paul said would not inherit the kingdom of God would inherit the kingdom after death.

Again you are evading answering the question with a simple yes or no:

Do you think 1 Cor.6:9-11 refutes universalism?

Either you think it is a proof text against universalism or you don't.

If you don't think it refutes universalism, why keep posting it? What's the point if it's irrelevant to the discussion.

Ditto for the parallel passages you posted: Eph.5:5 & Gal.5:19-21 along with 1 Cor.6:9-11.

Evidently you do not understand the significance of the tense of verbs. I was [past tense] an unrepentant sinner, I am [present tense] no longer an unrepentant sinner. Many people are [present tense] unrepentant sinners.

How does this support your position?

I do know that you try to prove several passages, in Paul, which clearly state that certain people will not inherit the kingdom of God don't really mean that because of something Paul said to a different church.
.....Please spare me the repetitious links I do not read them.ything that Paul wrote to other churches. Without that the only reasonable conclusion is when Paul told churches that certain people would not inherit the kingdom of God that is exactly what they would have understood and Paul did not tell them otherwise. point, set, match.

Note the tenses of the verbs "Were" past tense. "Are, present tense.

The words of anonymous "commentators" with no demonstrated or stated qualification, are irrelevant.

Please show me any verse(s) which state that all those groups that Paul mentioned will be cleansed?

No they are not! What did the Corinthians, Galatians and Ephesians understand when Paul said all those groups would not inherit the kingdom of God? There is no record that they were ever told anything different.

Romans 5:17-19
(17) For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!
(18) Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
(19) For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
Who are the many in this vs "those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness" vs. 17.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
(9) Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men
(10) nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:19-21
(19) The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery;
(20) idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions
(21) and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Ephesians 5:5
(5) For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
How did the Corinthians, Galatians, and Ephesians to whom Paul was writing understand the words "shall not inherit the kingdom of God?" Wait I know they just flipped open the letter to the Romans, which they probably had never seen, and knew that many meant all would be made righteous. I'm sure you can detect the sarcasm.

I already have. Your only response is "I'm right and you're wrong! Am too! Nuh huh!" and "the passages you quoted are perfectly harmonious
with universal salvation." Where does Paul tell the Corinthians, Galatians and Ephesians that all the groups he said would not inherit the kingdom of God, will ultimately inherit the kingdom
of God?
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
(9) Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men
(10) nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:19-21
(19) The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery;
(20) idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions
(21) and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Ephesians 5:5
(5) For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

 

[ClementofA]

How well does this work when you apply it to people like Hitler? Do you think that raising Hitler just to suffer is sadism as well? Or do you think he deserves to be punished for the terrible atrocities he committed on earth? If he died in his sleep in freedom and peace, would you think it just for God to raise him from the dead to render him justice? Or is that somehow sadistic?

God is a good God Who doeth good. I don't see what satisfaction He would get out of causing pointless sufferings, unless He is sadistic. If the sufferings were somehow beneficial to Hitler, then i would see a righteous purpose in them.

Let's get a few things straight, because I think we're both getting confused about who is coming from where:

I am saying that the wicked will be resurrected, will come to understand that what they are missing out on, will weep and gnash their teeth, will be cast into the LOF, and will suffer until their sin has burned up (the stripes verse - proportion - the kid in Africa who led a life of sacrifice and service and yet never heard the name of Jesus once will suffer much, much less than the guy who heard the name Jesus every day of his life), and then they will be turned to ashes and will remain destroyed (forever).

Der Alter is arguing most of the above, except that the suffering is endless, and that perhaps some places in Hell are hotter than others.

You are arguing most of the above, I believe, except that after all that happens, the wicked will be resurrected a second time to receive a second chance at salvation, and then a third, fourth, fifth, etc. until everyone has been saved. (Please correct me if I am wrong.)

I lean more to the view that those in the LOF are conscious & that is where they will have opportunity after opportunity for salvation until they are saved, even if it takes trillions of eons. Opportunities could conceivably also occur before their resurrection while they are in Hades. Or at the great white throne judgement, especially for those (e.g. children & teens) who never heard the gospel presented in the power of the Holy Spirit. Or as you state it, after a resurrection from the LOF.

That being said, in my view, "loss of their very being & existence for all eternity, plus loss of endless bliss in heaven" is not a punishment at all unless they are resurrected back into consciousness to be able to realize what they are missing out on. You can't feel sorry you missed out on something great that will happen after your death if you are still dead. Because you are dead. People who died 1,000 years ago are not upset at the fact that they can't travel to the moon like people today can. Because they are dead. If you go to sleep and people start partying without you, you're not going to feel jealous and sad until you have woken up to find out about all the fun everyone else was having without you. You have to wake up first. Likewise, the wicked have to be resurrected at some point in order to be punished at all, with anything.

So I'm not sure you understand what I am arguing.

Endless annihilation is not a conscious punishment where pain is felt, though in human society death itself is often considered a punishment in and of itself. An exception to that would be those who have suffered terribly at the hands of their enemy & consider death too easy, so sadistically desire to torture their enemy before death, unless they think letting them live after the tortures & mutilation is a worse punishment than ending them.

If wicked people did not suffer a conscious punishment where pain is felt in the after life, due to a knowledge they will miss out on endless bliss, they still often suffer fear of death & annihilation or endless torments before they die. Because they don't have the peace of God that comes with a right relationship with their Maker through Jesus Christ.

 

[Der Alte]

begin quote

I'm not a Universalist, but I understand where they are coming from and see that the Corinthians verse doesn't work against it. Because they don't argue that all those bad groups of people go to heaven, but instead, that everyone goes from the bad group of people to the good group of people. They don't see the negative label is static and unchangeable - and rightfully so. Paul himself was once in that group. Every christian was once in that group. So it's not a stretch to say that while people in this group won't go to heaven, everyone will leave that boat and will go to the good boat and will all be saved.
At least within the context of this one verse.
I think you are making the mistake of assuming that those labels he put on people are static and unchangeable.

end

I'm assuming that you, as I, have the complete Bible on your PC or laptop. I also have the complete Bible on my phone and 2 tablets. I can instantly look up any verse and know many verses.
.....But it is very unlikely, bordering on certainty, that the formerly pagans Paul was writing to had the OT and it is also very unlikely that they had very many, if any, of the gospels or letters written to other churches.It is also very unlikely that the average 1st century person had a copy of any part of the NT in their home that they could study any time they wanted to.
.....It is often argued that the idea of hell came from Greek paganism. So what would former pagans understand when Paul said that the unrighteous fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, effeminate, abusers thieves, covetous, drunkards, revilers, extortioners etc. would not inherit the kingdom of God? Would they instantly think that all those groups would be ultimately reconciled, as some groups today believe?

 

[Butch5]

Does anything you quoted refute what I posted?

The Greek word translated "perish" in this verse is ἀπόλλυμι/Apollumi. It occurs 90 times in the NT, of this 68 times, 76%, it cannot mean the destruction/annihilation which some argue supposedly occurs at the final judgment. Here is a list of those meanings.
.....(1) ruin, (2) do not bring about his ruin, (3) put to death, the wicked tenants, (4) he will put the evildoers to a miserable death, (5) destroy the wisdom of the wise, (6) destroy the understanding, (7) lose, (8) lose the reward, (9) lose what we have worked for, (10) lose one’s life, (11) lose oneself, (12) The man who risks his life in battle has the best chance of saving it; the one who flees to save it is most likely to lose it’), (13) ruined, (14) die, the man dies, (15) As a cry of anguish, we are perishing!, (16) of disaster that the stormy sea brings to the seafarer, (17) die by the sword, (18) die of hunger, (19) be corrupted, (20) killed by the snakes, (21) those who are lost, (22) of things be lost, (23) pass away, (24) be ruined, (26) of bursting wineskins, (25) fading beauty, (26) transitory beauty of gold, (27) passing splendor, (28) Of earthly food, (29) spoiled honey, (30) Of falling hair, (31) a member or organ of the body, (32) remnants of food, (33) of wine that has lost its flavor, (34) of sheep gone astray, (35) Of a lost son [that returned].

ἀπόλλυμι for its conj. s. Bl-D. §101 ( s.v. o[llumi ); Rob. 317; fut. ajpolevsw Hs 8, 7, 5, Att. ajpolw` 1 Cor 1:19 (Is 29:14 ); 1 aor. ajpwvlesa ; 1 pf. ajpolwvleka ; fut. mid. ajpolou`mai Lk 13:3 ; 2 aor. ajpwlovmhn ; the 2 pf. ajpovlwla serves as a pf. mid ., ptc. ajpolwlwv" ( Hom. +; inscr. , pap. , LXX , En. , Philo , Joseph. , Test. 12 Patr. ).
1. act .— a. ruin, destroy.
a. of pers. (Sir 10:3 ) Mk 1:24 ; Lk 4:34 . W. ref. to eternal destruction mh; ejkei`non ajpovllue do not bring about his ruin Ro 14:15 . Esp. kill, put to death (Gen 20:4 ; Esth 9:6 v.l .; 1 Macc 2:37 ; Jos. , C. Ap. 1, 122) Hs 9, 26, 7. paidivon Mt 2:13 ; Jesus 12:14 ; 27:20 ; Mk 3:6 ; 11:18 ; Lk 19:47 ; B 12:5; [kill] the wicked tenants kakou;" kakw`" aj. ( s. kakov" 1a) he will put the evildoers to a miserable death Mt 21:41 . tou;" gewrgouv" Mk 12:9 ; Lk 20:16 ; t. fonei`" Mt 22:7 ; t. mh; pisteuvsanta" those who did not believe Jd 5 ; pavnta" Lk 17:27 , 29 . W. sw`sai (1ike Charito 2, 8, 1) Js 4:12 ; Hs 9, 23, 4. Of eternal death ( Herm. Wr. 4, 7) yuch;n k. sw`ma aj. ejn geevnnh/ Mt 10:28; yuchvn B 20:1; t. yucav" Hs 9, 26,3 (cf.Sir 20:22).
b. w. impers. obj. aj. t. sofivan t. sofw`n destroy the wisdom of the wise 1 Cor 1:19 (Is 29:14 ). aj. t. diavnoian destroy the understanding Hm 11:1.— g. without obj. J 10:10 .
b. lose ( X. , Pla. +; PPetr. III 51, 5; POxy. 743, 23; PFay. 111, 3 ff ; Sir 6:3 ; 9:6 ; 27:16 et al .; Tob 7:6 BA; 4 Macc 2:14 ) t. misqovn lose the reward Mt 10:42 ; Mk 9:41 ; Hs 5, 6, 7. dracmhvn ( Dio Chrys. 70[20], 25) Lk 15:8 f ; aj. a} hjrgasavmeqa lose what we have worked for 2J 8 . diaqhvkhn B 4:6, 8. th;n zwh;n t. ajnqrwvpwn Hm 2:1; cf. s 8, 6, 6; 8, 7, 5; 8, 8, 2 f and 5. th;n ejlpivda m 5, 1, 7.— W . colloqu. flavor i{na pa`n o} devdwkevn moi mhv ajpolevsw ejx aujtou` that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me J 6:39 ( Bl-D. §466, 3; Rob. 437; 753).— aj. th;n yuchvn ( cf. Sir 20:22 ) lose one’s life Mt 10:39 ; 16:25 ; Mk 8:35 ; Lk 9:24 ; 17:33 ; cf. J 12:25 . For this aj. eJautovn lose oneself Lk 9:25 (similar in form is Tyrtaeus Lyr. [VII BC ], fgm. 8 Diehl 2 lines 12 ff : ‘The man who risks his life in battle has the best chance of saving it; the one who flees to save it is most likely to lose it’).
2. mid .— a. be destroyed, ruined.
a. of pers. perish, die ( schol. on Nicander , Ther. 188 ajpovllutai oJ ajnhvr =the man dies) 1 Cl 51:5; 55:6; B 5:4, 12; D 16:5; Hs 6, 2, 1 f. As a cry of anguish ajpolluvmeqa we are perishing! ( PPetr. II 4, 4 nuni; de; ajpolluvmeqa ) Mt 8:25 ; Mk 4:38 ; Lk 8:24 ( Arrian , Peripl. 3, 3 of disaster that the stormy sea brings to the seafarer). ejn macaivrh/ aj. die by the sword Mt 26:52 . limw`/ [die] of hunger (Ezk 34:29 ) Lk 15:17 . th`/ ajntilogiva/ tou` Kovre Jd 11 c (because of 11a and b it should perh. = be corrupted; cf. Polyb. 32, 23, 6). uJpo; tino" ( Hdt. 5. 126; Dio Chrys. 13[7], 12) uJpo; t. o[fewn killed by the snakes 1 Cor 10:9 ; cf. vs. 1 0. Abs. of a people perish J 11:50 . Of individuals (Lev 23:30 ) Ac 5:37 ; 2 Pt 3:9 ; 1 Cl 12:6; 39:5 (Job 4:20 ).—Esp. of eternal death ( cf. Ps 9:6 f ; 36:20; 67:3 ; 91:10 ; Is 41:11 ) J 3:16 ; 17:12 . ajpolevsqai eij" to;n aijw`na perish forever 10:28 (Bar 3:3 hJmei`" ajpolluvmenoi to;n aijw`na). ajnovmw" aj. Ro 2:12 ; mwrw`" aj. IEph 17:2; ejn kauchvsei because of boasting ITr 4:1; cf. IPol 5:2. Abs. 1 Cor 8:11 ; 15:18 ; 2 Cl 17:1.— oiJ ajpolluvmenoi ( opp. oiJ sw/zovmenoi , like Plut. , Mor. 469 D ) those who are lost 1 Cor 1:18 ; 2 Cor 2:15 ; 4:3 ; 2 Th 2:10 ; 2 Cl 1:4; 2:5. For this to; ajpolwlov" Lk 19:10 (Mt 18:11 —Ezk 34:4 , 16 ). ta; ajpolluvmena 2 Cl 2:7 ( cf. Dit., Syll. 3 417, 9 ta; te ajpolwlovta ejk t. iJerou` ajnevswsan ). b. of things be lost, pass away, be ruined ( Jos. , Bell. 2, 650 of Jerusalem) of bursting wineskins Mk 9:17 ; Mk 2:22 ; Lk 5:37 ; fading beauty Js 1:11 ; transitory beauty of gold 1 Pt 1:7 ; passing splendor Rv 18:14 ( w. ajpov as Jer 10:11 ; Da 7:17 ). Of earthly food J 6:27 ; spoiled honey Hm 5, 1, 5. Of the heavens which, like the earth, will pass away Hb 1:11 (Ps 101:27 ). Of the end of the world Hv 4, 3, 3, Of the way of the godless, which is lost in darkness B 11:7 (Ps 1:6 ).
b. be lost (Antipho 54 Diels, Vorsokrat. ajpolovmenon ajrguvrion ; X. , Symp. 1, 5; 1 Km 9:3 ) ISm 10:1. Of falling hair Lk 21:18 ; Ac 27:34 ; a member or organ of the body Mt 5:29 f ; remnants of food J 6:12
Of wine that has lost its flavor Hm 12, 5, 3.—Of sheep gone astray Mt 10:6 ; 15:24 ; Lk 15:4 , 6 ; B 5:12 ( cf. Jer 27:6 ; Ezk 34:4 ; Ps 118:176 ). Of a lost son Lk 15:24 ( Artem. 4, 33 hJ gunhv. . . t. uiJo;n ajpwvlese kai. . . eu|ren aujtovn .—JSchniewind, D. Gleichn. vom verl. Sohn ’40). aj. qew`/ be lost to God Hs 8, 6, 4. M-M. B. 758; 766.
BAG Greek Lexicon online​

I repeat my question why would Jesus not clearly teach annihilationism?

I just gave you one. Look at definition numbers, 4, 10, 14, 17, 18, 20. They all speak of death.

 

[Der Alte]

I just gave you one. Look at definition numbers, 4, 10, 14, 17, 18, 20. They all speak of death.

Right, death! Not annihilation.

 

[Jordan Henshaw]

Right, death! Not annihilation.

What do you mean by "annihilation"?

 

[Butch5]

Right, death! Not annihilation.

And what happens to a person when they die?

 

[Der Alte]

And what happens to a person when they die?

I'm surprised you don't know this.
Hebrews 9:27
(27) And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

 

[Der Alte]

What do you mean by "annihilation"?

an·ni·hi·la·tion əˌnīəˈlāSHən/
noun 1.complete destruction or obliteration.