Are you squeamish about the word "catholic"?

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Pardon my intrusion, but I'm not sure God really cares which group humans want to classify as, just like how God likely doesn't care if we eat pork, and drink wine, but thats not allowed in islam. likely a man-made rule (ouch) so, while we are not made of gold with an ever-present halo entrapped around our head, we are to keep God's word forever stamped in our hearts, thats what i believe, he truly is concerned about.

Are the items explained in the Nicene Constantinopolitan creed necessary beliefs for Christians? (Water baptism, Trinity etc.)

Forgive me...

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Are the items explained in the Nicene Constantinopolitan creed necessary beliefs for Christians? (Water baptism, Trinity etc.)

Forgive me...

That is a good question [I may created a thread on that]

Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed - OrthodoxWiki

The Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed (also called the Nicene Creed, the Symbol of Faith, the Pistevo, or simply the Creed) is that creed formulated at the First and Second Ecumenical Councils. It was defined by the Holy Fathers of those first two councils (held in Nicea and Constantinople, respectively) to combat various heresies: notably Arianism, Apollinarianism, Macedonianism (also called Pneumatomachianism), and Chiliasm.

Some scholars believe that the Creed promulgated by the First Ecumenical Council was based on an earlier baptismal creed used in Palestine (the Apostles' Creed), while others regard its more likely origin as being a creed issued early in 325 A.D. in Antioch, a so-called "Syrian Creed."

The Creed as it now stands was formed in two stages, and the one in use today in the Orthodox Church reflects the revisions and additions made at the Second Ecumenical Council. Some centuries later, the Roman Catholic Church attempted a unilateral revision of the Creed by the addition of the Filioque, thus being one of the causes of the Great Schism between Rome and the rest of the Church.

The Coptic church has a tradition that the Nicene Creed was authored by St. Athanasius of Alexandria, whose theology was instrumental at the Nicene council, despite his being only a deacon at the time.

The Creed of Nicea (325 A.D.)
We believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of all things, visible and invisible;

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, begotten from the Father, only-begotten, that is, from the essence of the Father,
God from God, light from light, true God from true God, begotten not made, of one essence with the Father,
through Whom all things came into being, things in heaven and things on earth, Who because of us men and because of our salvation came down and became incarnate, becoming man, suffered and rose again on the third day, ascended to the heavens,
and will come again to judge the living and the dead;

And in the Holy Spirit.

The Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed (381 A.D.)
In English:

We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible;
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Only-begotten, Begotten of the Father before all ages, Light of Light, Very God of Very God, Begotten, not made; of one essence with the Father, by whom all things were made:
Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven, and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, and was made man;
And was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered and was buried;
And the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures;
And ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of the Father;
And He shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead, Whose kingdom shall have no end.
And we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, and Giver of Life, Who proceeds from the Father, Who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified, Who spoke by the Prophets;
And we believe in one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one Baptism for the remission of sins.
We look for the Resurrection of the dead,
And the Life of the age to come. Amen.

In Greek:

Πιστεύομεν εἰς ἕνα Θεόν, Πατέρα, Παντοκράτορα, ποιητὴν οὐρανοῦ καὶ γῆς, ὁρατῶν τε πάντων καὶ ἀοράτων.
Καὶ εἰς ἕνα Κύριον Ἰησοῦν Χριστόν, τὸν Υἱὸν τοῦ Θεοῦ τὸν μονογενῆ, τὸν ἐκ τοῦ Πατρὸς γεννηθέντα πρὸ πάντων τῶν αἰώνων· φῶς ἐκ φωτός, Θεὸν ἀληθινὸν ἐκ Θεοῦ ἀληθινοῦ, γεννηθέντα οὐ ποιηθέντα, ὁμοούσιον τῷ Πατρί, δι οὗ τὰ πάντα ἐγένετο.
Τὸν δι ἡμᾶς τοὺς ἀνθρώπους καὶ διὰ τὴν ἡμετέραν σωτηρίαν κατελθόντα ἐκ τῶν οὐρανῶν καὶ σαρκωθέντα ἐκ Πνεύματος Ἁγίου καὶ Μαρίας τῆς Παρθένου καὶ ἐνανθρωπήσαντα.
Σταυρωθέντα τε ὑπὲρ ἡμῶν ἐπὶ Ποντίου Πιλάτου, καὶ παθόντα καὶ ταφέντα.
Καὶ ἀναστάντα τῇ τρίτῃ ἡμέρα κατὰ τὰς Γραφάς.
Καὶ ἀνελθόντα εἰς τοὺς οὐρανοὺς καὶ καθεζόμενον ἐκ δεξιῶν τοῦ Πατρός.
Καὶ πάλιν ἐρχόμενον μετὰ δόξης κρῖναι ζῶντας καὶ νεκρούς, οὗ τῆς βασιλείας οὐκ ἔσται τέλος.
Καὶ εἰς τὸ Πνεῦμα τὸ Ἅγιον, τὸ κύριον, τὸ ζωοποιόν, τὸ ἐκ τοῦ Πατρὸς ἐκπορευόμενον, τὸ σὺν Πατρὶ καὶ Υἱῷ συμπροσκυνούμενον καὶ συνδοξαζόμενον, τὸ λαλῆσαν διὰ τῶν προφητῶν.
Εἰς μίαν, Ἁγίαν, Καθολικὴν καὶ Ἀποστολικὴν Ἐκκλησίαν.
Ὁμολογῶ ἓν βάπτισμα εἰς ἄφεσιν ἁμαρτιῶν.
Προσδοκῶ ἀνάστασιν νεκρῶν.
Καὶ ζωὴν τοῦ μέλλοντος αἰῶνος.
Ἀμήν.

Note: The Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed as it is recited in Orthodox worship today uses the first person ("I believe..."/"Πιστεύω") rather than the first person plural as it was enacted at the councils.

 

[Vicomte13]

Are the items explained in the Nicene Constantinopolitan creed necessary beliefs for Christians? (Water baptism, Trinity etc.)

Forgive me...

Fascinating question.
Depends on what Christian you ask, this side of the grave.
Depends on what God thinks, on the other side.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Something was handed out that contained dogmatic beliefs that were to be continued until HIS return in ACTS 16:4 (Personally, I think it was the didache.)

That being the case, they had decided that some things were important.

Forgive me...

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Something was handed out that contained dogmatic beliefs that were to be continued until HIS return in ACTS 16:4 (Personally, I think it was the didache.)

That being the case, they had decided that some things were important.

Forgive me...

Acts 16:4
And as they went through the cities, they delivered to them the decrees to keep, which were determined by the apostles and elders at Jerusalem.

They determined to set in stone that which isn't I presume?

 

[Root of Jesse]

I am catholic. Aren't all Christians? Are we not one body?

I think 'catholic' is Christ's call to humanity. "Catholic" is one of our responses to that call.

 

[Root of Jesse]

The word to use is Tradition. I am of the Byzantine Tradition. Several of the other churches use the Byzantine Tradition. The Western Tradition includes the Latin Rite, as well as the Sarum Rite. There are a few other Rites in the Western Tradition, but they all firmly under the Pope.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Philip_B]

Ill give the standard answer of 5... but there is room for expanding that.

Did you know that there is one Church that has had no historic break in her services?

Antioch. 1st daughter Church of Jerusalem.

Forgive me...

Yet, as I understand it, there are currently seven Patriarchs of Antioch.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Yet, as I understand it, there are currently seven Patriarchs of Antioch.

No... six fakes.

 

[Monk Brendan]

I do not know if they claim apostolic origin, but they do call themselves "Apostolics."

I might call myself a hamburger, but I don't live in McDonald's. Just so, they might call themselves Apostolic, but that is just a label that they use. It does not mean any Apostolic Origin.

 

[Monk Brendan]

No... six fakes.

• Chalcedonian lines of Patriarchs:
  • List of Greek Orthodox Patriarchs of Antioch, 518 to present
  • List of Melkite Greek Catholic Patriarchs of Antioch, covers 1724 to present
  • List of Maronite Patriarchs, 8th century to present
  • List of Latin Patriarchs of Antioch, from 1098 to 1964, when post was abolished
• Non-Chalcedonian lines of Patriarchs
  • List of Syriac Patriarchs of Antioch from 512 to 1783
  • List of Syriac Orthodox Patriarchs of Antioch, covers 1783 to present
  • List of Syriac Catholic Patriarchs of Antioch, covers 1783 to present.

I will agree with the Greek Orthodox, Melkite and Maronite (they have been around for a while--The Melkites enjoyed double Communion with both Rome and Constantinople. The Melkite Catholic Patriarchate of Antioch is the only actual residential Patriarchate of the Melkite Catholic Church (Eastern Catholic, Byzantine Rite) which was formed in 1724 when a portion of the Orthodox Church of Antioch went back into communion with Rome, becoming an Eastern Catholic Church, while the rest of the ancient Patriarchate continues in full communion with the rest of the Eastern Orthodox Church. (Although I think he lives in Damascus, now.)

 

[Monk Brendan]

I have never heard it used outside of a religious context and to reject this would be irresponsible regardless what the the proper meaning of the word is.

I have. But then, I read a lot. Even the Dictionary, at times.

 

[Monk Brendan]

how many are worthy to be called apostolic?

Very few groups are truly Apostolic. Catholics and Orthodox, of course, and then there are the Christians in India that began with St. Thomas. I have heard of an ancient, and now very rarely seen group that one of the Apostles began in China--But I'm not sure about them. Then of course there are the various flavors of Egyptian and African.

Some of the above groups may be in communion with, or have mirror communities in both Catholic and Orthodox flavors

 

[W2L]

Tradition seems complicated and divisive. I dont understand religion. The faith i read about in scripture is simple.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Tradition seems complicated and divisive. I dont understand religion. The faith i read about in scripture is simple.

What part of this do you not understand? These are the important points of the faith you have been reading.

The Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed (381 A.D.)
In English:

1. We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible;
2. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Only-begotten, Begotten of the Father before all ages, Light of Light, Very God of Very God, Begotten, not made; of one essence with the Father, by whom all things were made:
3. Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven, and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, and was made man;
4. And was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered and was buried;
5. And the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures;
6. And ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of the Father;
7. And He shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead, Whose kingdom shall have no end.
8. And we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, and Giver of Life, Who proceeds from the Father, Who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified, Who spoke by the Prophets;
9. And we believe in one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.
10. We acknowledge one Baptism for the remission of sins.
11. We look for the Resurrection of the dead,
12. And the Life of the age to come. Amen.

These are the beliefs of the 'catholic' faith.

Forgive me...

 

[W2L]

What part of this do you not understand? These are the important points of the faith you have been reading.

The Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed (381 A.D.)
In English:

1. We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible;
2. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Only-begotten, Begotten of the Father before all ages, Light of Light, Very God of Very God, Begotten, not made; of one essence with the Father, by whom all things were made:
3. Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven, and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, and was made man;
4. And was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered and was buried;
5. And the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures;
6. And ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of the Father;
7. And He shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead, Whose kingdom shall have no end.
8. And we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, and Giver of Life, Who proceeds from the Father, Who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified, Who spoke by the Prophets;
9. And we believe in one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.
10. We acknowledge one Baptism for the remission of sins.
11. We look for the Resurrection of the dead,
12. And the Life of the age to come. Amen.

These are the beliefs of the 'catholic' faith.

Forgive me...

All scripture is important, not just the creed.

 

[Mountainmike]

Nope. We are all God's creation and the denomination isn't as important as accepting Christ as savior is.

But then catholic is not a denomination.
Denominations only came after the reformation, when authority and tradition were dropped in favour of all making up their own meaning for scripture, so inevitable differences began. As luther lamented of the monster he created "every milkmaid now has their own doctrine"

 

[W2L]

But then catholic is not a denomination.
They only came after the reformation, when authority and tradition were dropped in favour of all making up their own meaning for scripture, so inevitable differences began. As luther lamented of the monster he created "every milkmaid now has their own doctrine"

John 6:45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’[a] Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.

 

[HenryM]

Are you squeamish about the word "catholic"?

Are you squeamish about words: "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast"?

 

[BobRyan]

How do you feel about the word itself?

Forgive me...

Does not look like any Catholic I have known.