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Featured Are you squeamish about the word "catholic"?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by OrthodoxyUSA, Oct 10, 2017.

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  1. OrthodoxyUSA

    OrthodoxyUSA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    How do you feel about the word itself? Do your eyes glaze over?

    [​IMG]

    One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church - OrthodoxWiki

    Catholicity
    "The Church is the fullness of Christ's body on earth. As a term, catholicity means fullness or perfection, wholeness. Only God is perfect wholeness, the fullness of being. God makes the Church to be catholic by its participation in his full, divine life.

    Fr. Thomas Hopko:
    The term "catholic" as originally used to define the Church (as early as the first decades of the second century) was a definition of quality rather than quantity. Calling the Church catholic means to define how it is, namely, full and complete, all-embracing, and with nothing lacking.

    Even before the Church was spread over the world, it was defined as catholic. The original Jerusalem Church of the apostles, or the early city-churches of Antioch, Ephesus, Corinth, or Rome, were catholic. These churches were catholic -- as is each and every Orthodox church today -- because nothing essential was lacking for them to be the genuine Church of Christ. [They did not have nor need a Papacy]

    God Himself is fully revealed and present in each church through Christ and the Holy Spirit, acting in the local community of believers with its apostolic doctrine, ministry (hierarchy), and sacraments, thus requiring nothing to be added to it in order for it to participate fully in the Kingdom of God.

    Catholicity is sometimes confused with universality — the idea that the Christian faith is for all men. However, the word was originally used to denote the true Church among a growing horde of heretics who had removed elements from the faith which they disliked, refashioning Christian belief to their pleasure.

    Catholicity is a qualitative mark: the quality of the whole faith handed down from the apostles."

    Forgive me...
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
  2. FenderTL5

    FenderTL5 Well-Known Member

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    I voted yes. Here's why:
    I grow weary of having to explain it to family/colleagues who object to everything Catholic (Roman Catholic).
     
  3. Goatee

    Goatee Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.

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    Catholic means universal so anyone who is squeamish about the word is uneducated about what it actually means.
     
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  4. AvilaSurfer

    AvilaSurfer Semi-Retired Supporter

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    I'm proud to be Catholic.
     
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  5. Adstar

    Adstar Well-Known Member

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    I am Not a Catholic..
     
  6. Goatee

    Goatee Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.

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    That wasn't the question though.
     
  7. CoolDude68

    CoolDude68 ~ My Kingdom Come ~ Supporter

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    Nope. We are all God's creation and the denomination isn't as important as accepting Christ as savior is.
     
  8. OrthodoxyUSA

    OrthodoxyUSA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I understand this completely.

    Forgive me...
     
  9. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    The designation carries tons of baggage.
     
  10. FenderTL5

    FenderTL5 Well-Known Member

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    I agree, but when it comes to conversations with some, I will intentionally say "universal" instead of catholic. I would rather avoid the inevitable path the discussion takes if i were to say "catholic".
     
  11. Adstar

    Adstar Well-Known Member

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    I know that.. And i see you did not give the same reply to the person above my post who simply answered..

    '''' I'am proud to be a catholic ""
     
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  12. OrthodoxyUSA

    OrthodoxyUSA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It's interesting that the word catholic implies "completeness and togetherness, believing the exact same DOGMA" is thought of as a denomination a "division away" from catholicism.

    In other words, when we say we believe in "one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church", it implies there are no division lines.

    You may have hit the very root of the misunderstanding.

    Forgive me...
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2017
  13. Dave-W

    Dave-W Our six grandchildren Supporter

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    Right; that is the denotated meaning. The connotated meaning is indicating a particular denomination - the Roman Catholic Church.
     
  14. Dave G.

    Dave G. Well-Known Member

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    I voted no. I'm not squeamish but I'm not returning back there either.
     
  15. OrthodoxyUSA

    OrthodoxyUSA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    "Kata-holos" literally "Concerned with the beliefs of the whole".

    As FenderTL5 expressed. It's difficult to explain the meaning of "The Whole", when a Church has taken the word as a proper noun.

    Forgive me...
     
  16. OrthodoxyUSA

    OrthodoxyUSA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    To Roman Catholicism?

    What about Anglican? Or one of the other "catholics"?

    Forgive me...
     
  17. Dave G.

    Dave G. Well-Known Member

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    I haven't found a need as yet to investigate them. The Lord set me on a path, He hasn't said to change it, not yet anyway .
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2017
  18. Philip_B

    Philip_B At the name of Jesus every knee shall bow. Supporter

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    Catholic - as I understand it - comes from the koine greek kata 'olos meaning 'according to the whole'. As one of the four notes of the Church in the Nicene Creed it is a word that belongs to the whole Church as it is expressed in the Nicene Creed:

    We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.

    I am glad of any part of the Church that is prepared to proclaim their attachment to this important concept boldly and even include it in their name. Sadly some people see it as the sole preserve and trade mark or branding of a particular communion, which in itself is a less than catholic approach to the word.

    It was first used to describe the Christian Church in the early 2nd century to emphasize its universal scope.

    From an Anglican perspective catholic implies or means directly the church which,
    • is Jesus centred on prayer and the sacramental life.
    • has a focus in mission
    • declares the ancient creeds,
    • whose ordained ministry includes the Historic Episcopate (Bishops), Priests and Deacons;
    • is faithful to the the Canon of Scripture,
    • is determined to serve all people, especially the weak and the marginalised
    • exercises a prophetic voice, with a call for social justice
    Sometimes people mistake certain practices in the church as being catholic, such as burning incense, lighting candles, wearing vestments, and the like. Whilst these practices are within the catholic church, they by no means define it. Another confusion that people make is that of thinking it is simply defined by that part of the church that has it’s focus of authority centered in Rome. Quite clearly this misses the point on several scores, such as to exclude the Eastern Orthodox Churches, and the Anglican Church, The Old Catholics, and numerous other Churches who clearly are Catholic within a proper understanding of the term..

    All three creeds (Apostles, Nicene and Athanasian) make reference to a belief in the Catholic Church – and clearly that belief is not acknowledging that there is another congregation down the street. There have been several efforts to rephrase the creed and use another word, (such as universal) however this always seems to fall short of the force and strength of a word that we have used for most of the life of the Church. Far better we understand what it means.

    A very important part of our understanding of Catholic is our historic connection to the Church, not simply in every place, but also in every time. It is this connection through time that is expressed in the notion of Apostolic Succession – a line of Bishops tracing back to the Apostles, and therefore to Jesus.

    It is importantly a Church for all People, at All Times, and in All Places. To hold the catholic faith is to be inclusive.

    I am in no way squeamish about the word Catholic.
     
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  19. CoolDude68

    CoolDude68 ~ My Kingdom Come ~ Supporter

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    I read a book about ancient Babylon and how the various forms of religions spread across the globe. It's interesting how each denomination has their own unique traditions.
     
  20. Tigger45

    Tigger45 Saint Ambrose of Milan Supporter CF Senior Ambassador Angels Team

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    I voted no but then I have fun with it telling people ‘I’m catholic just not Roman’. And watch their eyes glaze over ^_^
     
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