I don't know how that relates to the line of questioning I was responding to, but no. The "branches" are seperated into those who remain in the vine (in Jesus) and bear fruit, and those who do not remain in the vine and bear no fruit. Those wither and die and get tossed into the fire.
So, in regards to sheep, the sheep would be the branches who remain in the vine, while the goats would be those who don't remain in the vine.
More importantly and contrary to lds teaching, a branch who has left the vine, withered, and died, cannot be reattached to the vine; it is destroyed. IOW, one has a choice in this life and this life only, to remain in the vine. No second chances in the after life.
I don't recall stating a belief in OSAS, but thanks for that assumption.That is contrary to your belief in OSAS. If you are a branch, you were led to Jesus by God, and are saved, right? If a branch (a saved person) leaves the vine and is destroyed, does that interrupt OSAS?
If there is no second chance in the after life, why did Jesus go into the spirit prison between the time he died and the time he was resurrected?
To appear on a website is not a source of authority. First you have to examine all the manuscripts and compare their reliability. When they were written and by whom and the bad part is there were many revisions which attempted to clarify what was being said, however sometimes magnifying errors more grossly. The greatest error is of Daniel and the lions den and is a complete fabrication. The same is true of Bel and the dragon, a fabrication. They were inserted into the original and historically it is accepted by most scholars. The substitution of Persians, Greeks and others of a dualistic God and bad devils and as you say did not enter in the scriptures until the second century and later. Devils and demons are not a part of the originals.Book of Mormon Student Manual Chapter 4: 1 Nephi 12–15
Elder Bruce R. McConkie (1915–85) of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles defined the great and abominable church: “The titles church of the devil and great and abominable church are used to identify all … organizations of whatever name or nature—whether political, philosophical, educational, economic, social, fraternal, civic, or religious—which are designed to take men on a course that leads away from God and his laws and thus from salvation in the kingdom of God” (Mormon Doctrine, 2nd ed. [1966], 137–38). in the second half of the first century and would have done much of its work by the middle of the second century.
“This period might be called the blind spot in Christian history, for it is here that the fewest primary historical sources have been preserved. We have good sources for New Testament Christianity; then the lights go out, so to speak, and we hear the muffled sounds of a great struggle. There is no historical evidence for the claims the lds church makes.
I don't recall stating a belief in OSAS, but thanks for that assumption.
Jesus is talking to his disciples. Did all his disciples remain in him? Judas anyone? See also John 6:60-71.
As for spirit prison, 1 Peter 3:19-20 says
After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,
So it was NOT to make new disciples or preach the Gospel to those who have never heard of Christ, as the lds teaches. These "spirits" in prison have been there since before Noah and the ark.
Who they are specifically is not revealed in Scripture. But one thing to think about is the Bible never refers to human beings specifically as "spirits". So why would the lds think that applies now? Making up a false doctrine to comfort Joseph Smith losing his brother is just bad theology.
The original question was; Were parts of the Bible deleted by the great and abominable church?
The great and abominable is defined as any person or organization which fights against Jesus.
Joseph Smith was a con artist. His explanation of "familiar spirits" displays his ignorance of Hebrew which he claimed to know. The Hebrew for familiar spirits is in Hebrew ob אדנ and means a neocromancer, a ventriloquist which called up voices fom the dead by throwing her disguised voice at the earth of tombs, kashaph witch, soothsayer. Much like the Witch of Endor. You should be aware the witchcraft is strictly forbidden in the scriptures but I guess Joseph Smith was not intelligent enough to figure it out.church
In the New Testament it is the translation of the Greek word ecclesia, which is synonymous with the Hebrew of the Old Testament, both words meaning simply an assembly, the character of which can only be known from the connection in which the word is found. There is no clear instance of its being used for a place of meeting or of worship, although in post-apostolic times it early received this meaning. Nor is this word ever used to denote the inhabitants of a country united in the same profession, as when we say the "Church of England," the "Church of Scotland," etc.
We find the word ecclesia used in the following senses in the New Testament:
- It is translated "assembly" in the ordinary classical sense ( Acts 19:32 Acts 19:39 Acts 19:41 ).
- It denotes the whole body of the redeemed, all those whom the Father has given to Christ, the invisible catholic church ( Ephesians 5:23 Ephesians 5:25 Ephesians 5:27 Ephesians 5:29 ; Hebrews 12:23 ).
- A few Christians associated together in observing the ordinances of the gospel are an ecclesia ( Romans 16:5 ; Colossians 4:15 ).
- All the Christians in a particular city, whether they assembled together in one place or in several places for religious worship, were an ecclesia. Thus all the disciples in Antioch, forming several congregations, were one church ( Acts 13:1 ); so also we read of the "church of God at Corinth" ( 1 Corinthians 1:2 ), "the church at Jerusalem" ( Acts 8:1 ), "the church of Ephesus" ( Revelation 2:1 ), etc.
- The whole body of professing Christians throughout the world ( 1 Corinthians 15:9 ; Galatians 1:13 ;Matthew 16:18 ) are the church of Christ.
- All the Christians in a particular city, whether they assembled together in one place or in several places for religious worship, were an ecclesia. Thus all the disciples in Antioch, forming several congregations, were one church ( Acts 13:1 ); so also we read of the "church of God at Corinth" ( 1 Corinthians 1:2 ), "the church at Jerusalem" ( Acts 8:1 ), "the church of Ephesus" ( Revelation 2:1 ), etc.
- The whole body of professing Christians throughout the world ( 1 Corinthians 15:9 ; Galatians 1:13 ;Matthew 16:18 ) are the church of Christ.
The church visible "consists of all those throughout the world that profess the true religion, together with their children." It is called "visible" because its members are known and its assemblies are public. Here there is a mixture of "wheat and chaff," of saints and sinners. "God has commanded his people to organize themselves into distinct visible ecclesiastical communities, with constitutions, laws, and officers, badges, ordinances, and discipline, for the great purpose of giving visibility to his kingdom, of making known the gospel of that kingdom, and of gathering in all its elect subjects. Each one of these distinct organized communities which is faithful to the great King is an integral part of the visible church, and all together constitute the catholic or universal visible church." A credible profession of the true religion constitutes a person a member of this church. This is "the kingdom of heaven," whose character and progress are set forth in the parables recorded in Matthew 13 ...
Church Definition and Meaning - Bible Dictionary
- All churches that are not God's only true church are of the devil. Only in the twentieth century did Mormons try to change the meaning of those verses. I talked about it with the senior companion of the missionaries that visited me and he agreed that my interpretation is true. I thanked him for being honest!
- Joseph Smith claimed that he asked God which church he should join.
- 19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
20 He again forbade me to join with any of them;
- None of them are the Church of the Lamb of God according to the Book of Mormon.
So JS is a con artist because he did not demonstrate a minutea knowledge of the words 'familiar spirits'. Not exactly a true test of intelligence.Joseph Smith was a con artist. His explanation of "familiar spirits" displays his ignorance of Hebrew which he claimed to know. The Hebrew for familiar spirits is in Hebrew ob and means a neocromancer, a ventriloquist which called up voices fom the dead by throwing her disguised voice at the earth of tombs, witch, soothsayer. Much like the Witch of Endor. You should be aware the witchcraft is forbidden in the scriptures but I guess Joseph Smith was not intelligent enough to figure it out.
He claimed all scriptures had been revealed to him by the angel. Guess the angel had it wrong too! Smith says Isaiah 29:4 proves the divinity of the Book of Mormon plates buried in Palmyrah, N.Y. as one that hath a familar spirit. Simith ignores the last part that also says that for your abomination ..you shall be visited with the flame of devouring fire. Deuteronomy 18:9-12 says familar spirits are an abomination. Lexiticus 20:27 says those who practice the witchcraft of familarspirits shaa be put to death. Bye Bye Joseph Smith!So JS is a con artist because he did not demonstrate a minutea knowledge of the words 'familiar spirits'. Not exactly a true test of intelligence. He did not claim to know Hebrew well, he only had a few lessons on Hebrew, so he was certainly not fluent.
You jumped the gun. I was not finished and if you go back and read the rest you will se the scripture: Isaiah 29:4; Deuteronomy 18:9-12; Leviticus 20:27Would you be willing to give me a reference for that statement by JS? Specifically that "all scriptures had been revealed to him by the angel".
Thank you.
No. I'm guessing that you a mixing things up with Islam, which claim the Quran was dictated by the Angel Gabriel. LDS do not believe that an angel sat their and recited a bunch of things for Joseph Smith to right down. Rather, it is believed that the Book of Mormon was translated via the power of God, from inscribed plates. Later revelations (the Doctrine and Covenants) were received directly, just like the Bible.He claimed all scriptures had been revealed to him by the angel.
Smith saw this record as one coming forth as the voice of one that has a familar spirit. Smith said "The Book of Mormon truly has a familar spirit for it contains the words of the prophets of the God of Israel". Claimed to be the source of the plates of the BOM Isaiah 29:4 ends by saying You shall be visited with the flame of devouring fire.Actual Mormon here, clarifying actual Mormon beliefs--No. I'm guessing that you a mixing things up with Islam, which claim the Quran was dictated by the Angel Gabriel. LDS do not believe that an angel sat their and recited a bunch of things for Joseph Smith to right down. Rather, it is believed that the Book of Mormon was translated via the power of God, from inscribed plates. Later revelations (the Doctrine and Covenants) were received directly, just like the Bible. I respect that you don't agree with LDS beliefs, I'm just clarifying what those actual beliefs are.
You're welcome to believe whatever you want about familiar spirits.Smith saw this record as one coming forth as the voice of one tht has a familar spirit. Smith said "The Book of Mormon truly has a familar spirit for it contains the words of the prophets of the God of Israel". Claimed to be the source of the plates of the BOM Isaiah 29:4 ends by saying You shall be visited with the flame of devouring fire.
Deuteronomy 18:9-12 and Leviticus 20:27
The original question was; Were parts of the Bible deleted by the great and abominable church?
The great and abominable is defined as any person or organization which fights against Jesus.
Joseph Smith was a con artist. His explanation of "familiar spirits" displays his ignorance of Hebrew which he claimed to know. The Hebrew for familiar spirits is in Hebrew ob אדנ and means a neocromancer, a ventriloquist which called up voices fom the dead by throwing her disguised voice at the earth of tombs, kashaph witch, soothsayer. Much like the Witch of Endor. You should be aware the witchcraft is strictly forbidden in the scriptures but I guess Joseph Smith was not intelligent enough to figure it out.
Thank you, it must have been Nephi? However JS says incorrectly, that Elias was an unknown person because JS did not even understand Greek. Elias is the Greek formed name for Elijah and they are the same person. JS mistakenly says they made a separate appearance in the vision on D&C 110. Just another instance of unintelligent gibberish. You also addressed my other statements on familiar spirits. Do you agree that JS is missing the mark and is subject to being stoned to death?You're welcome to believe whatever you want about familiar spirits.
I was just clarifying that your statement "He claimed all scriptures had been revealed to him by the angel" was incorrect.
“… to lay the foundation of this church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness,
Simith ignores the last part that also says that for your abomination ..you shall be visited with the flame of devouring fire