LDS Were parts of the Bible deleted by the great and abominable church?

[Rescued One]

Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 13
28 Wherefore, thou seest that after the book hath gone forth through the hands of the great and abominable church, that there are many plain and precious things taken away from the book, which is the book of the Lamb of God.
1 Nephi 13

1 Nephi 14
9 And it came to pass that he said unto me: Look, and behold that great and abominable church, which is the mother of abominations, whose founder is the devil.

10 And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the harlot of all the earth.
1 Nephi 14

Joseph Smith taught that “many important points, touching the salvation of man, have been taken from man, had been taken from the Bible, or lost before it was compiled" (History of the Church, 1:245). He also said that the Bible was correct as “it came from the pen of the original
writers,” but that “ignorant translators, careless transcribers, or designing and corrupt priests have committed many errors” (History of the Church, 6:57.)
Book of Mormon Student Manual, Chapter 4, p. 29
https://www.lds.org/manual/book-of-mormon-student-manual/chapter-4-1-nephi-12-15?lang=eng

 

[Stancet]

I happen to think not. The Bible we have today was created by the early church after the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD. After the jews were scattered throughout the Roman empire, the Christian church realized they needed to gather as many manuscripts as possible to make a completed work that would be preserved for the future churches. With God's help, they identified the scriptures that the Holy Spirit inspired and didn't include the others.

There are some evidences for this. Isaiah 40:8 says that God's Word shall never pass away, so if we believe God is sovereign and in control of the universe, than He certainly is capable of preserving His Word. The Roman King Deaccession (sorry if I spelled it wrong) tried to destroy all trace of Christianity, but 20 years after his death Emperor Constantine converted to Christianity. The founding father, Thomas Paine, supposed there would be no Bibles within 50 years but his own printing press later printed Bibles. Revelation 22:18-19 also reinforces the truth that we now have God's completed work, but we won't see the fulfillment of God's Word until Jesus comes again and the problem of sin is finally dealt with.

 

[WilliamBo]

When I look at a King James Bible, the word ''authentic'' just comes to mind. I don't think God would allow scriptures to be hidden, I think we have the full written Word, many Christians follow Jesus just fine with the 66 books of the Bible we have now

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

YHWH guards His Word.

Those other religions have nothing to do with it.

 

[Peter1000]

YHWH guards His Word.

Those other religions have nothing to do with it.

Who, besides the Mormons are the other religions?

If men on earth are worthy of YHWH's word, they shall have it. If they are not worthy of YHWH's word, they shall not have it.

 

[fatboys]

When I look at a King James Bible, the word ''authentic'' just comes to mind. I don't think God would allow scriptures to be hidden, I think we have the full written Word, many Christians follow Jesus just fine with the 66 books of the Bible we have now

That's a good theory. But did God ever say that his scriptures would never pass away or just his words would never pass away? His words are eternal until man gets his corrupt hands on it. Man is all God has to work with and so he brings forth prophets to correct and bring a more true intent of the scriptures. Without a prophet man is just guessing what the scriptures really mean and the intent they were given

 

[Peter1000]

When I look at a King James Bible, the word ''authentic'' just comes to mind. I don't think God would allow scriptures to be hidden, I think we have the full written Word, many Christians follow Jesus just fine with the 66 books of the Bible we have now

WilliamBo, you can go to sleep feeling good about your choice of using the KJV. JS was told by Jesus that the KJV was the best bible translation on the earth today.

Have you read the entire bible, OT and NT?

 

[Peter1000]

I happen to think not. The Bible we have today was created by the early church after the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD. After the jews were scattered throughout the Roman empire, the Christian church realized they needed to gather as many manuscripts as possible to make a completed work that would be preserved for the future churches. With God's help, they identified the scriptures that the Holy Spirit inspired and didn't include the others.

There are some evidences for this. Isaiah 40:8 says that God's Word shall never pass away, so if we believe God is sovereign and in control of the universe, than He certainly is capable of preserving His Word. The Roman King Deaccession (sorry if I spelled it wrong) tried to destroy all trace of Christianity, but 20 years after his death Emperor Constantine converted to Christianity. The founding father, Thomas Paine, supposed there would be no Bibles within 50 years but his own printing press later printed Bibles. Revelation 22:18-19 also reinforces the truth that we now have God's completed work, but we won't see the fulfillment of God's Word until Jesus comes again and the problem of sin is finally dealt with.

If you happen to think not, then tell me:
1) why is there hundreds if not thousands of different Christian churches, all teaching from the bible, but all teaching different doctrines from the bible?
2) why there are hundreds of translations of the bible? I would think that if it were so perfect there would be 1 English translation, not hundreds.
3) why there are tens of ways to be saved, all according to the bible, that causes confusion and is obviously divisive for Christians?

PhoebeAnn gave us the answer from Nephi, but I would like you to answer these 3 questions, since you think not. Thank you.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

If men on earth are worthy of YHWH's word, they shall have it. If they are not worthy of YHWH's word, they shall not have it.

That is totally false doctrine/ pernicious/ false teaching/ of the devil/ disastrous to all men if they ever believe that.

 

[Jane_Doe]

That is totally false doctrine/ pernicious/ false teaching/ of the devil/ disastrous to all men if they ever believe that.

yeshuaslavejeff: do you not believe that unchanging God speaks His followers? Why do you call such an idea "of the devil" and "disastrous"?

 

[Rescued One]

God saves whom He will save. Yes, there are many world religions and many denominations and many Mormon off-shoots. None of these religions makes Mormonism true. Nor does this mean that His sheep don't know Him and He doesn't know His sheep.

Now, LDS, please answer the question. Were parts of the Bible deleted by the great and abominable church? No Mormon has ever proven such a thing.

 

[Rescued One]

His words are eternal until man gets his corrupt hands on it.

Joseph Smith and subsequent "prophets" put their hands on God's words.

 

[fatboys]

Joseph Smith and subsequent "prophets" put their hands on God's words.

That's right. Mortal man is all God has to work with. So he calls prophets to get as close to what he wants as possible. Not perfect but much more pure intent than man guessing what the truth is.

 

[Rescued One]

That's right. Mortal man is all God has to work with. So he calls prophets to get as close to what he wants as possible. Not perfect but much more pure intent than man guessing what the truth is.

His sheep don't guess.

Matthew 7
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

 

[Stancet]

If you happen to think not, then tell me:
1) why is there hundreds if not thousands of different Christian churches, all teaching from the bible, but all teaching different doctrines from the bible?
2) why there are hundreds of translations of the bible? I would think that if it were so perfect there would be 1 English translation, not hundreds.
3) why there are tens of ways to be saved, all according to the bible, that causes confusion and is obviously divisive for Christians?

PhoebeAnn gave us the answer from Nephi, but I would like you to answer these 3 questions, since you think not. Thank you.

I'll try to answer your questions, and I will respect any different of opinion you might have.

Question 1
Part of the reason there are so many denominations of Christianity is tragic history. For hundreds of years during the Middle Ages the Catholic Church was the only form of Christianity in Europe. Martin Luther the reformist believed corruption entered the church when they were preaching church traditions more than the Bible. Multiple denominations came into being because people began reading the Bible more, interpreting it differently, and certain kings also established new churches to exorcize political control. Truthfully, it's a mess, but I happen to believe Lutherans, Methodists, Presbyterians, Baptists, Pentecostals and Episcopals are all equally capable of being saved. Mark 9:38-40 is a short passage about Jesus disowning the petty squabbles of believers who practice things differently, which is further reinforced by the Apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 1:10

Question 2
The original scriptures that were Holy Spirit inspired were written in Hebrew and Greek and therefore perfect in the message they tell. However, I do not believe the Holy Spirit helped any translator in the same way as those original writers. Some people disagree and believe the King James Version is perfect, but part of the reason so many translations exist is the difficulty in translating poetic gestures and metaphors and the difference between sentence for sentence translation and word for word translating. Maybe to answer the heart of your question, I do not believe any translation perfectly transitions the Bible into English because of the limitations and incompatibilities of the original language and our own, but the same message the english Bible teaches can be read, even between different version, and understood with equal clarity as the original Hebrew readers understood it.

Question 3
I know this question will be hardest to answer because you've probably heard different teachings about salvation between different denominations. But more important than preachers, I'd ask you to trust the Bible because nothing a preacher says is reliable unless the Bible is reliable. And how does the Bible say we shall be saved? Ephesians 2:8-9 says it is completely by God's grace (Him giving us something we don't deserve), and we receive grace through the faith we exhibit. Faith in what? Romans 10:9 makes it plain that we need to put faith in Jesus to be saved.

I'm simplifying the standard Christian message of salvation, but I hope that covers the basics of your question. However, I know you probably have other questions like baptism. Is baptism necessary for salvation? I don't believe so because I have scripture to prove it, 1 Peter 3:21. What about church traditions? Revelation 22:18-19 makes it clear we don't need any knowledge outside the Bible to be saved. But back to my original point, nothing is more important than what the Bible says about salvation, and the more you know of it the better. And some denominations disagree to the point of teaching something unbiblical, but if the Bible is not true than we can't rely on anything else because God has exalted it so much, Psalm 138:2.

I hope this answers your questions somewhat, but if you have anything else feel free to ask.

 

[Thursday]

Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 13
28 Wherefore, thou seest that after the book hath gone forth through the hands of the great and abominable church, that there are many plain and precious things taken away from the book, which is the book of the Lamb of God.
1 Nephi 13

1 Nephi 14
9 And it came to pass that he said unto me: Look, and behold that great and abominable church, which is the mother of abominations, whose founder is the devil.

10 And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the harlot of all the earth.
1 Nephi 14

Joseph Smith taught that “many important points, touching the salvation of man, have been taken from man, had been taken from the Bible, or lost before it was compiled" (History of the Church, 1:245). He also said that the Bible was correct as “it came from the pen of the original
writers,” but that “ignorant translators, careless transcribers, or designing and corrupt priests have committed many errors” (History of the Church, 6:57.)
Book of Mormon Student Manual, Chapter 4, p. 29
https://www.lds.org/manual/book-of-mormon-student-manual/chapter-4-1-nephi-12-15?lang=eng

Protestants removed seven books from the bible after the Reformation.

 

[Rescued One]

Protestants removed seven books from the bible after the Reformation.

Protestants did not remove temple marriages for time and eternity, temple washings to be clean from the sins of the present generation, baptisms and sealing ordinances for the dead, etc. This is why I want an answer to my question but Mormons won't acknowledge what their scriptures teach.

 

[Rescued One]

That's right. Mortal man is all God has to work with. So he calls prophets to get as close to what he wants as possible. Not perfect but much more pure intent than man guessing what the truth is.

God gave the Holy Spirit to guide all followers of Christ. The Holy Spirit doesn't teach half-truths.

 

[BigDaddy4]

That's right. Mortal man is all God has to work with. So he calls prophets to get as close to what he wants as possible. Not perfect but much more pure intent than man guessing what the truth is.

How do you know what "perfect" is? How do you know what God's "pure intent" is? How do you know your prophets aren't leading you astray?

 

[Thursday]

Protestants did not remove temple marriages for time and eternity, temple washings to be clean from the sins of the present generation, baptisms and sealing ordinances for the dead, etc. This is why I want an answer to my question but Mormons won't acknowledge what their scriptures teach.

I see where you are going with this. Yes, it is clear that Mormons made a lot of this stuff up.