The Double Message of Eternal Security.

Neogaia777

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Don't you think this would also go with the Law being our tutor? Bringing us to the knowledge of our sinfulness and the need for our savior?

In Christ
Daniel
The Law is, I guess, the best word is our "tutor", leading us who are called by Christ, to Christ...

Cause those who are called by Christ, see the law right... How it's bringing more and more sin consciousness around us and, more importantly, "in us", and that, for those who are truly his, and are truly called by him, and see the law correctly, it will cause them to draw even closer to him (Christ) or will draw one closer to him (Christ) those who are called by him (Christ) beginning with what the law does, that @stuart lawrence points out...

The power of the law is it brings us to our knees and makes us cry out to him, and latch on to him, and attach ourselves to him, in an increasingly closer and closer and more intimate and more and more dependent on him way, (intimate with him way) but only due to the work that the law works in us first... (or when a reminder is necessary) again, when viewed correctly...

And I call those who view the law correctly and allow the law to cause them do this, truly his, and truly called by him (Christ)...

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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The Law is, I guess, the best word is our "tutor", leading us who are called by Christ, to Christ...

Cause those who are called by Christ, see the law right... How it's bringing more and more sin consciousness around us and, more importantly, "in us", and that, for those who are truly his, and are truly called by him, and see the law correctly, it will cause them to draw even closer to him (Christ) or will draw one closer to him (Christ) those who are called by him (Christ) beginning with what the law does, that @stuart lawrence points out...

The power of the law is it brings us to our knees and makes us cry out to him, and latch on to him, and attach ourselves to him, in an increasingly closer and closer and more intimate and more and more dependent on him way, (intimate with him way) but only due to the work that the law works in us first... (or when a reminder is necessary) again, when viewed correctly...

And I call those who view the law correctly and allow the law to cause them do this, truly his, and truly called by him (Christ)...

God Bless!
So, the point of the Law is not to keep it, at least, not until the very, very end, when you are completed by God, and that may not be able to happen till we are "in the twinkling of eye" forever changed or made complete by God, or till we get to heaven or are resurrected and not in this life...

The law does not make you complete, but you will complete the law one day, but, my guess, is not till we get there or are taken out of this world, or this sinful world i done away with, or made to no longer sinful by God...

God Bless!
 
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SkyWriting

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Many times when I discuss Eternal Security, I hear two different messages. One message says a true Christian is defined by loving Jesus and by being more Christ like. Yet, another message within Eternal Security says you can die in the unrepentant sin of lying, or the sin of unforgiveness, etc. and still be saved.
What doth thou sayeth?

The only unforgiven sin is rejecting God's Holy Spirit. If you accept that
Jesus paid the price for all the rest, then you are eternally saved.
 
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The only unforgiven sin is rejecting God's Holy Spirit. If you accept that
Jesus paid the price for all the rest, then you are eternally saved.

Was Jesus talking to believers or unbelievers in Matthew 6:15?

Can an unbeliever be forgiven simply by forgiving others?

Surely not. They need to accept Christ first. So this means Jesus is talking to believers and if they do not forgive, then they will not be forgiven (saved).


...
 
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SkyWriting

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Was Jesus talking to believers or unbelievers in Matthew 6:15? Can an unbeliever be forgiven simply by forgiving others? Surely not. They need to accept Christ first. So this means Jesus is talking to believers and if they do not forgive, then they will not be forgiven (saved)....

The only unforgiven sin is rejecting the Holy Spirit.
If you think you can top Jesus for works,
(by finding loopholes) then you are mistaken.
 
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The only unforgiven sin is rejecting the Holy Spirit.
If you think you can top Jesus for works,
(by finding loopholes) then you are mistaken.

That is not an answer to the question. Your avoiding the very words of Jesus here. The words of Jesus are not a loop hole. His words are truth.


...
 
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Romansthruphilemon

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Was Jesus talking to believers or unbelievers in Matthew 6:15?

Can an unbeliever be forgiven simply by forgiving others?

Surely not. They need to accept Christ first. So this means Jesus is talking to believers and if they do not forgive, then they will not be forgiven (saved).


...

That was before the cross. It's different now, you have to rightly divide.

Ephesians 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

In Ephesians 4:32 its past tense, already forgiven, not conditional.

Paul said he magnifies his office, you're supposed to as well.
 
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That was before the cross. It's different now, you have to rightly divide.

Ephesians 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

In Ephesians 4:32 its past tense, already forgiven, not conditional.

Paul said he magnifies his office, you're supposed to as well.

Not true. Serious sin still leads to spiritual death and separation from God unless one repents under the New Covenant.

1 John 3:15 says if any man hates his brother, there is no eternal life abiding in him.


...
 
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SkyWriting

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That is not an answer to the question. Your avoiding the very words of Jesus here. The words of Jesus are not a loop hole. His words are truth.


...
But your understanding is suspect.
Always suspect a sinner.
"Can an unbeliever be forgiven simply by forgiving others?"
For sure. The humble will inherit the earth.

Mathew 7: 12
In everything then, do unto others as you would have them
do unto you. For this is the essence of the Law and the prophets.
 
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But your understanding is suspect.
Always suspect a sinner.

I am not asking you to believe me, I am asking you to beleive what is written.
For what part of 1 John 3:15 do you not understand?
Please explain this verse to us.


Note: Does your interpretation of 1 John 3:15 have to be explained away because of your belief or can it be simply read at face value and believed?


...
 
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SkyWriting

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I am not asking you to believe me, I am asking you to beleive what is written.
For what part of 1 John 3:15 do you not understand?
Please explain this verse to us.

Those who hate others,
whatever those people believe or practice,
will not inherit the new earth.
They will not see paradise.

I don't limit it to believers, because saving faith in God is invisible.
And the letters were not written to be included in scripture.
 
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Until you learn how to rightly divide you will be preaching a works righteousness.

But what are you preaching?
Where do works play a part in your view involving God's grace?
So if you are not preaching works of righteousness under God's grace, does that mean you are preaching works of unrighteousness as the alternative?


...
 
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Those who hate others,
whatever those people believe or practice,
will not inherit the new earth.
They will not see paradise.

So you are saying that a person can go from loving others and be saved and then they can start to hate their brother and then become unsaved? Or are you saying they were never saved to begin with? Can you say that you will never have a moment of not hating your brother?


...
 
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SkyWriting

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So you are saying that a person can go from loving others and be saved and then they can start to hate their brother and then become unsaved? Or are you saying they were never saved to begin with? Can you say that you will never have a moment of not hating your brother?


...

God has no interest in "time".
God is Spirit.
Spirits don't age.
 
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God has no interest in "time".
God is Spirit.
Spirits don't age.

So it is probable that a believer can hate his brother and also be saved and or have eternal life?


...
 
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Neogaia777

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So it is probable that a believer can hate his brother and also be saved and or have eternal life?


...
Only God knows each individual case, we do not, and when we start thinking we do, we sin...

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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Try re-reading 2 Timothy 3:16-17.


....
I don't see how you think I am disagreeing with that scripture, but we have no right to push anybody, beat them over the head, or tell them what to do, unless, unless they ask, if not, we should not...

Now you can kind of "bait" a person, or gently lead them into asking you the question you want them to ask you, then, tell them in a spirit of meekness, mildness, gentleness and self-control (that is in scripture by the way, that last part)...

And the answer to their question can sometimes be in the question that you lead them into asking (skilled professional counselors know this well)...

God Bless!
 
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