The Double Message of Eternal Security.

[stuart lawrence]

Adding a little to this, I think sexual sins are also sins of the mind and heart and not necessarily sins of action as we would think most sins to be.

Most of the time we need to 'act' on something for it to be a sin, but with adultery as laid out in the Bible can be in one's heart and mind. This then adds a whole other dimension to sin because now we realize that our hearts must be right and our minds must be disciplined.

For instance, now I always check for nudity in movies before I watch them. And even PG13 movies can have this or highly suggestive situations. And so one must definately take more care in what they allow into their minds and lives.

Good point.

Absolutely. Sexual sin is not just a physical action, it is also in the mind.
Did Saul the pharisee sleep with women? I'm sure he didn't. But he still said: thou shalt not covet brought condemnation to him

 

[ToBeLoved]

Coveting is why my husband left me for the wife of his best friend. His friend was everything he had ever wanted to be. They both had been in the Navy, but his friend had been a Navy Seal and even did still-secret missions. I think wanting his life was his downfall, and it all started with coveting.

I'm sorry to hear that happened to you.

This is a good example though of how if we let the root of unrighteousness start in our hearts and then flourish it becomes a desire and just gets stronger.

When we place too much value on the things of this world, the carnal, we begin to miss or not see all the spiritual blessings and our relationship with God as most important and if we are not careful, then the carnal things will take precidence.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Absolutely. Sexual sin is not just a physical action, it is also in the mind.
Did Saul the pharisee sleep with women? I'm sure he didn't. But he still said: thou shalt not covet brought condemnation to him

Right.

As I grow in my Christian life I realize that most sin really begins in the heart and requires that we look deep within our hearts to make sure that the things that we desire and place importance upon are spiritual. Because that is where sin starts and takes root. We may not realize it until an action on our part comes about, but if we analyze the entire stream of what led to it, there is usually a point in our hearts where we let the root of it begin there a while back.

That is why I like to really talk about self reflection and knowing ourselves. Not just superficially, but taking an inner accounting of what we have been doing and thinking. A good, solid look at who we are really and not merely the person that we would like to think we are. Because we can all convince ourselves with enough denial of who we really are inside, that we are good people. But really, most of us have not looked close enough at our hearts and what is really motivating us and the root of it.

 

[SBC]

Sexual sins are the most attractive to anyone. I think that is why so much time and space was devoted to them in scripture.

I agree.
From early on it was made clear that mankind has a visual nature.
And a culmination of knowledge, in the mind, soul, heart along with natural urges of sexual desires that naturally lead to natural reproduction; not much has changed.
(well except for maybe trying to curb the natural desires that actually lead to reproduction;
and the lax of boundaries of partners and culmination of feelings good and bad, in the mind, soul and heart)
Not that those things did not always exist, but appear more rampant and acceptable, and the enormous amount of $$ spent promoting such visual and enticing things.

Perhaps why so much of Scripture was devoted; because of the complex involvement of the whole of a man (body, soul, spirit) and feelings.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[stuart lawrence]

Right.

As I grow in my Christian life I realize that most sin really begins in the heart and requires that we look deep within our hearts to make sure that the things that we desire and place importance upon are spiritual. Because that is where sin starts and takes root. We may not realize it until an action on our part comes about, but if we analyze the entire stream of what led to it, there is usually a point in our hearts where we let the root of it begin there a while back.

That is why I like to really talk about self reflection and knowing ourselves. Not just superficially, but taking an inner accounting of what we have been doing and thinking. A good, solid look at who we are really and not merely the person that we would like to think we are. Because we can all convince ourselves with enough denial of who we really are inside, that we are good people. But really, most of us have not looked close enough at our hearts and what is really motivating us and the root of it.

I agree with all you wrote
One things for sure. You are a true and sincere christian

 

[ToBeLoved]

I agree with all you wrote
One things for sure. You are a true and sincere christian

Aww.. Thank you for the sweet words. They made my day. Very edifying.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Yes, coveting wrecks lives doesn't it, has started wars, destroyed families and so much more. And coveting is a commandnent you can break without anyone but God knowing you are doing so.
The Pharisees could faultlessly obey so much of the letter of the law, they could faultlessly observe the legalistic law, but they could not obey the tenth commandment, as Saul the pharisee could not either

Interesting that it is the commandments that is mentioned in Romans 7, "For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead. 9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death.

It is the Spirit who has now written the commandments on our hearts as you know. So what just the written word could not do, the Spirit accomplishes. This is why "the law of the Spirit of life in Christ, has freed me free of the law of sin and death." It is no longer death to me. The Spirit is why.

 

[1stcenturylady]

A couple of questions to you;

I have heard the term; "license to sin" and "get out of hell card".
I have never heard anyone claim those things for themselves - but have heard others make those claims to professing Christians.

The basis being; "license to sin", premised on a Christian claiming they are "saved and born again"; but claim they continue to sin.

The basis being; "get out of hell card", premised on a Christian claiming they are "saved", thus regardless of what they do, they have no threat of being sent to hell.

Question: Do you believe a saved and born again man, is freed from sin, sins no more, OR continues to sin AFTER being saved and born again?

Question: Do you believe a saved (soul) of man, is also a born again (spirit) of man?

Question: Do you believe a saved man, is kept from separation from God in hell, regardless of what he does?

Thanks. Elaboration welcome. No post is too long to express your POV.

God Bless,
SBC

Question: Do you believe a saved and born again man, is freed from sin, sins no more, OR continues to sin AFTER being saved and born again?

Sin no longer calls to us. So in that sense we are freed from sin. We suddenly love what God loves, and hates what God hates. The law is written on our hearts by the Spirit, who also gives us the power of grace to endure temptation. However, we still have a choice. So yes, we can sin, but no longer want to. Every time you resist the devil, you get stronger, but it may take many years to become Hercules! LOL When I became filled with the Spirit, I experienced this strength, and even though I did not do those things I knew to be sin, there were still things the Spirit had to teach me about what God considered sin, so I still had things to overcome. Today, my conscience is clear. But who knows what the Spirit may teach me tomorrow. He keeps perfecting us. This is why even though you can be walking in the Spirit, the blood of Jesus still has to cleanse us of sin we do unknowingly. 1 John 1:7. (If no repentance is mentioned, I assume we don't know about it.)


Question: Do you believe a saved (soul) of man, is also a born again (spirit) of man?

Spirit, soul and body.

Yes. One is our mind and flesh which is renewed to the mind of Christ, and the other is our invisible life force which leaves the body at death and returns to the Father (whichever "father" you serve). I even believe that even though this body will die one day, that the blood of Jesus can heal us during our lifetime. But just like salvation, healing has to be accepted by faith. Also, the blood of Jesus can supply our needs. 3 John 1:2 Beloved, I pray that you may prosper in all things and be in health, just as your soul prospers. 3 For I rejoiced greatly when brethren came and testified of the truth that is in you, just as you walk in the truth. 4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth."

One thing I don't believe is scriptural is those who say the flesh is not born again. Nonsense. Romans 8:8-9 "So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. Paul isn't talking about the flesh as our body, that will eventually die. Galatians 5 even talks about the deeds of the flesh, and how we are to walk in the Spirit, not in the flesh.


Question: Do you believe a saved man, is kept from separation from God in hell, regardless of what he does?

Is this a trick question? LOL If you are saved you will never see hell, only the grave, but your spirit will be with the Lord.

Regardless of what he does? Another oxymoron. A saved person, IF they slip will be hounded by the Spirit until he repents and finds peace again. When your hyper-sensitive conscience is clear, you are not in sin that needs repenting.

 

[SBC]

Question: Do you believe a saved and born again man, is freed from sin, sins no more, OR continues to sin AFTER being saved and born again?

Sin no longer calls to us. So in that sense we are freed from sin. We suddenly love what God loves, and hates what God hates. The law is written on our hearts by the Spirit, who also gives us the power of grace to endure temptation. However, we still have a choice. So yes, we can sin, but no longer want to. Every time you resist the devil, you get stronger, but it may take many years to become Hercules! LOL When I became filled with the Spirit, I experienced this strength, and even though I did not do those things I knew to be sin, there were still things the Spirit had to teach me about what God considered sin, so I still had things to overcome. Today, my conscience is clear. But who knows what the Spirit may teach me tomorrow. He keeps perfecting us. This is why even though you can be walking in the Spirit, the blood of Jesus still has to cleanse us of sin we do unknowingly. 1 John 1:7. (If no repentance is mentioned, I assume we don't know about it.)


Question: Do you believe a saved (soul) of man, is also a born again (spirit) of man?

Spirit, soul and body.

Yes. One is our mind and flesh which is renewed to the mind of Christ, and the other is our invisible life force which leaves the body at death and returns to the Father (whichever "father" you serve). I even believe that even though this body will die one day, that the blood of Jesus can heal us during our lifetime. But just like salvation, healing has to be accepted by faith. Also, the blood of Jesus can supply our needs. 3 John 1:2 Beloved, I pray that you may prosper in all things and be in health, just as your soul prospers. 3 For I rejoiced greatly when brethren came and testified of the truth that is in you, just as you walk in the truth. 4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth."

One thing I don't believe is scriptural is those who say the flesh is not born again. Nonsense. Romans 8:8-9 "So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. Paul isn't talking about the flesh as our body, that will eventually die. Galatians 5 even talks about the deeds of the flesh, and how we are to walk in the Spirit, not in the flesh.


Question: Do you believe a saved man, is kept from separation from God in hell, regardless of what he does?

Is this a trick question? LOL If you are saved you will never see hell, only the grave, but your spirit will be with the Lord.

Regardless of what he does? Another oxymoron. A saved person, IF they slip will be hounded by the Spirit until he repents and finds peace again. When your hyper-sensitive conscience is clear, you are not in sin that needs repenting.

Thanks for your time in responding. I believe some things similar, but not exact.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[stuart lawrence]

Question: Do you believe a saved and born again man, is freed from sin, sins no more, OR continues to sin AFTER being saved and born again?

Sin no longer calls to us. So in that sense we are freed from sin. We suddenly love what God loves, and hates what God hates. The law is written on our hearts by the Spirit, who also gives us the power of grace to endure temptation. However, we still have a choice. So yes, we can sin, but no longer want to. Every time you resist the devil, you get stronger, but it may take many years to become Hercules! LOL When I became filled with the Spirit, I experienced this strength, and even though I did not do those things I knew to be sin, there were still things the Spirit had to teach me about what God considered sin, so I still had things to overcome. Today, my conscience is clear. But who knows what the Spirit may teach me tomorrow. He keeps perfecting us. This is why even though you can be walking in the Spirit, the blood of Jesus still has to cleanse us of sin we do unknowingly. 1 John 1:7. (If no repentance is mentioned, I assume we don't know about it.)


Question: Do you believe a saved (soul) of man, is also a born again (spirit) of man?

Spirit, soul and body.

Yes. One is our mind and flesh which is renewed to the mind of Christ, and the other is our invisible life force which leaves the body at death and returns to the Father (whichever "father" you serve). I even believe that even though this body will die one day, that the blood of Jesus can heal us during our lifetime. But just like salvation, healing has to be accepted by faith. Also, the blood of Jesus can supply our needs. 3 John 1:2 Beloved, I pray that you may prosper in all things and be in health, just as your soul prospers. 3 For I rejoiced greatly when brethren came and testified of the truth that is in you, just as you walk in the truth. 4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth."

One thing I don't believe is scriptural is those who say the flesh is not born again. Nonsense. Romans 8:8-9 "So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. Paul isn't talking about the flesh as our body, that will eventually die. Galatians 5 even talks about the deeds of the flesh, and how we are to walk in the Spirit, not in the flesh.


Question: Do you believe a saved man, is kept from separation from God in hell, regardless of what he does?

Is this a trick question? LOL If you are saved you will never see hell, only the grave, but your spirit will be with the Lord.

Regardless of what he does? Another oxymoron. A saved person, IF they slip will be hounded by the Spirit until he repents and finds peace again. When your hyper-sensitive conscience is clear, you are not in sin that needs repenting.

Sometimes I think there isn't that much between us in belief, at other times I do.
Tis strange.
You answered well in the above!
Make the most if the compliment lol!!!!!!

 

[1stcenturylady]

Sometimes I think there isn't that much between us in belief, at other times I do.
Tis strange.
You answered well in the above!
Make the most if the compliment lol!!!!!!

Interesting.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Interesting.

.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Interesting.

I'm just a big softy really

 

[1stcenturylady]

I'm just a big softy really

I knew it all the time!

Gotta run...church tonight

 

[stuart lawrence]

I knew it all the time!

Gotta run...church tonight

Have a good meeting.
Say hello for me to the minister you say has the same views as me!

 

[1stcenturylady]

Have a good meeting.
Say hello for me to the minister you say has the same views as me!

We had a good discussion. But, I didn't see your request before I left.