The Double Message of Eternal Security.

[Bible Highlighter]

This does take place after Christ's death but pay attention to Galations 2:7-9 to see that Peter, John, and James are preaching to the circumcision, and Paul is preaching to us.

Paul is speaking:
Gal 2:7-9 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

Things didn't change overnight. The new doctrine that was kept secret since the world began, and only revealed to the Apostle Paul was preached by Paul to the Gentiles. James, Peter, and John were still preaching the doctrine that they learned in Jesus' earthly ministry, but they were preaching to the circumcision (Jews), not to us. To confirm this is true look at what Peter said in Acts 10:35 and notice the works required for salvation. Acts 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness is accepted with him.

Compare Acts 10:35 with what Paul said to us in Romans 4:5, But to him that worketh not, but believe that on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Acts 10:35 works required to be accepted
Romans 4:5 works not required to be accepted, faith only

The doctrine in Acts 10:35 is opposite to Romans 4:5. There is no way that you can claim both of those verses. You are claiming the wrong one as your doctrine and ignoring the one that is written to you.

There is only one gospel and it is not as you suggest.

6 "I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." (Galatians 1:6-8).

The following is the meat of the Word (or gospel) that you cannot accept.

25 "...even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish." (Ephesians 5:25-27).

"Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works." (Titus 2:14).


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[stuart lawrence]

@Jason0047, @SkyWriting,

This is what I believe.

Let’s talk about the laws on your heart. Who put them there? The Spirit. Those are the laws of the Spirit of life in Christ, to love God with all your heart, mind and strength and your neighbor as yourself. They are NOT the Old Covenant laws of sin and death.

But why do they seem the same? Thou shalt not kill? Love prevents that in your new nature. Thou shalt not steal? Self-control prevents that in your new nature. Thou shalt not commit adultery? Faithfulness prevents that in your new nature. Thou shalt not covet? Peace and contentment prevents that in your new nature. Thou shalt not lie? Kindness prevents that in your new nature. Honor your parents? Longsuffering and gentleness takes care of them for as long as they live. Believing in the name of Jesus Christ? Joy unspeakable!

Whatever you wouldn't want done to yourself, you do to others.

The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, and self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

Those who have to STRIVE to be all the above, don't have the law of the Spirit of life in Christ, they are still trying to keep the law of sin and death in THEIR OWN strength. Their carnal nature makes it hard.

So nine of the TC as written are not written in your mind and placed on your heart?
They are mine, for they did not get abolished:
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid. Yea. We establish the law
Rom3:31

 

[1stcenturylady]

So nine of the TC as written are not written in your mind and placed on your heart?
They are mine, for they did not get abolished:
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid. Yea. We establish the law
Rom3:31

They are fulfilled by the fruit of the Spirit. It is the Spirit that is in our heart. If the Spirit is not there, we are not even Christians.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@Jason0047, @SkyWriting,

This is what I believe.

Let’s talk about the laws on your heart. Who put them there? The Spirit. Those are the laws of the Spirit of life in Christ, to love God with all your heart, mind and strength and your neighbor as yourself. They are NOT the Old Covenant laws of sin and death.

The Old Law was called the Law of sin and death because if you broke certain laws of God, you could be physically put to death. Breaking certain of God's laws today can lead to spiritual death. For there are sins not unto death and sins that do lead unto death (1 John 5:16-17).

But why do they seem the same? Thou shalt not kill? Love prevents that in your new nature. Thou shalt not steal? Self-control prevents that in your new nature. Thou shalt not commit adultery? Faithfulness prevents that in your new nature. Thou shalt not covet? Peace and contentment prevents that in your new nature. Thou shalt not lie? Kindness prevents that in your new nature. Honor your parents? Longsuffering and gentleness takes care of them for as long as they live. Believing in the name of Jesus Christ? Joy unspeakable!

Whatever you wouldn't want done to yourself, you do to others.

Yes, loving others will help a person to keep God's moral law and yes we are given a new nature or new heart with new desires. But nowhere is stated in Scripture that being born again spiritually equates with having our free will erased whereby we cannot fall away from the Lord. Paul says to work out your salvation with fear and trembling.

The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, and self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

Provoking one another is what I would define as attacking the other person instead of sticking with Scripture. I set out to attack the belief and not the person. People think Eternal Security is true, and it is false. They think it lines up with holiness and yet it does not. Such a belief does not allow for it (despite what they may say).

Those who have to STRIVE to be all the above, don't have the law of the Spirit of life in Christ, they are still trying to keep the law of sin and death in THEIR OWN strength. Their carnal nature makes it hard.

Nobody here is suggsting we keep God's laws on our own power alone. But believers do have to cooperate with God who lives within them (who are faithful).


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[Bible Highlighter]

They are fulfilled by the fruit of the Spirit. It is the Spirit that is in our heart. If the Spirit is not there, we are not even Christians.

Yes, but a person cannot preach another gospel and yet also have the fruit of the Spirit.
There is only one gospel that leads to true righteousness.


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[1stcenturylady]

The Old Law was called the Law of sin and death because if you broke certain laws of God, you could be physically put to death. Breaking certain of God's laws today can lead to spiritual death. For there are sins not unto death and sins that do lead unto death (1 John 5:16-17).



Yes, loving others will help a person to keep God's moral law and yes we are given a new nature or new heart with new desires. But nowhere is stated in Scripture that being born again spiritually equates with having our free will erased whereby we cannot fall away from the Lord. Paul says to work out your salvation with fear and trembling.



Provoking one another is what I would define as attacking the other person instead of sticking with Scripture. I set out to attack the belief and not the person. People think Eternal Security is true, and it is false. They think it lines up with holiness and yet it does not. Such a belief does not allow for it (despite what they may say).



Nobody here is suggsting we keep God's laws on our own power alone. But believers do have to cooperate with God who lives within them (who are faithful).


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Yes, Jason, we still have free will. There are times of testing called trials. It is during these times we see how much of our fruit is real and not plastic.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Yes, Jason, we still have free will. There are times of testing called trials. It is during these times we see how much of our fruit is real and not plastic.

I agree. A person has to prove if Jesus really lives within them by seeing if they are truly obeying God's Word (1 John 2:5). Yes, we will be tested. We will be tested to see if we have an active faith in God's Word. Most today think they can sin and still be saved on some level. But it doesn't work that way. They obviously will not pass the test.


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[stuart lawrence]

They are fulfilled by the fruit of the Spirit. It is the Spirit that is in our heart.

Your post concerning this simply proves the futility of these kinds of debates. Something even now I accept!
You have had it very clearly pointed out to you, with scripture nine of the TC must be written on the mind and placed on the heart of the believer. You ignored the points made and cling to your error.
The same as Jason keeps clinging to his error, for many times he has been shown when Paul wrote of dying to the law he included the moral law in that. Yet Jason refuses to accept it. I was chatting in a debate today where someone spoke of boredom, and how it adversly affected them. As I partook of the debate, I realised such debates can be beneficial, whereas debates like these seldom, if ever can.
WHen people believe they have superior spiritual wisdom and come on the internet to teach it to others, they cannot admit to error, such a thing is impossible

 

[1stcenturylady]

Yes, but a person cannot preach another gospel and yet also have the fruit of the Spirit.
There is only one gospel that leads to true righteousness.


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Righteousness if first a gift. It is the righteousness of Christ.

Then He gives us His Spirit who begins to plant us with seeds of the fruit of the Spirit. We can either quench the results, or brake up our fallow ground to produce mature fruit.

 

[1stcenturylady]

I agree. A person has to prove if Jesus really lives within them by seeing if are truly obeying God's Word (1 John 2:5). Most today think they can sin and still be saved on some level. But it doesn't work that way.


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I know. They only believe the first part, that they have been given Christ's righteousness. Then they go about quenching the Spirit until He leaves them forever. James 1:12-15

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Righteousness if first a gift. It is the righteousness of Christ.

I am not in disagreement with that. A person has to first repent of their sins, accept Jesus, and believe that He died and was risen three days later on their behalf. They are saved in that moment.

But Christ also gave Himself so as to redeem us from all iniquity (Please read Ephesians 5:25-27 and Titus 2:14).

Then He gives us His Spirit who begins to plant us with seeds of the fruit of the Spirit. We can either quench the results, or brake up our fallow ground to produce mature fruit.

Yes, exactly. A person can choose to abide with the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit or they can choose to break up with Him and go back to a life of sin.

The choice is in the hands of the person.


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[Bible Highlighter]

I know. They only believe the first part, that they have been given Christ's righteousness. Then they go about quenching the Spirit until He leaves them forever. James 1:12-15

Yes, I agree. They only believe the milk of the Word and not the meat of the Word.


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[1stcenturylady]

Your post concerning this simply proves the futility of these kinds of debates. Something even now I accept!
You have had it very clearly pointed out to you, with scripture nine of the TC must be written on the mind and placed on the heart of the believer. You ignored the points made and cling to your error.
The same as Jason keeps clinging to his error, for many times he has been shown when Paul wrote of dying to the law he included the moral law in that. Yet Jason refuses to accept it. I was chatting in a debate today where someone spoke of boredom, and how it adversly affected them. As I partook of the debate, I realised such debates can be beneficial, whereas debates like these seldom, if ever can.
WHen people believe they have superior spiritual wisdom and come on the internet to teach it to others, they cannot admit to error, such a thing is impossible

"You, you, you." I'll gratefully be judged by God, not you.

 

[stuart lawrence]

If you committed adultery, would you specifically be conscious you sinned because you committed adultery, or would you only be conscious you sinned by failing to love as you should?
Through the law we become conscious of sin rom3:20

If you coveted, would you specifically be conscious you sinned because you coveted, or would you only be conscious you sinned because you failed to love as you should?
Through the law we become conscious of sin
Rim3:20
If you bore false witness, would you specifically be conscious you sinned because you bore false witness, or would you only be conscious you sinned by failing to love as you should?
Through the law we become conscious of sin rom3:20
Etc, etc.

Proving more than two Commandments are written in your mind and placed on your heart.
However. In these debates only one commandment appears to matter for many:

Though shalt not be willing to admit to error

 

[1stcenturylady]

If you committed adultery, would you specifically be conscious you sinned because you committed adultery, or would you only be conscious you sinned by failing to love as you should?
Through the law we become conscious if sin rom3:20

If you coveted, would you specifically be conscious you sinned because you coveted, or would you only be conscious you sinned because you failed to live as you should?
Through the law we become conscious if sin
Rim3:20
If you bore false witness, would you specifically be conscious you sinned because you bore false witness, or would you only be conscious you sinned by failing to love as you should?
Through the law we become conscious of sin rom3:20

Proving more than two Commandments are written in your mind and placed on your heart.
However. In these debates only one commandment appears to natter for many:

Though shalt not be willing to admit to error

You do know there is more than one fruit, don't you?

Thou shalt not kill? Love prevents that in your new nature. Thou shalt not steal? Self-control prevents that in your new nature. Thou shalt not commit adultery? Faithfulness prevents that in your new nature. Thou shalt not covet? Peace and contentment prevents that in your new nature. Thou shalt not lie? Kindness prevents that in your new nature. Honor your parents? Longsuffering and gentleness takes care of them for as long as they live. Believing in the name of Jesus Christ? Joy unspeakable!

 

[stuart lawrence]

"You, you, you." I'll gratefully be judged by God, not you.

You will be judged by God, as we all will.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

"You, you, you." I'll gratefully be judged by God, not you.

I would put Stuart on ignore 1stcenturylady. You will be more at peace if you do.


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[stuart lawrence]

You do know there is more than one fruit, don't you?

Thou shalt not kill? Love prevents that in your new nature. Thou shalt not steal? Self-control prevents that in your new nature. Thou shalt not commit adultery? Faithfulness prevents that in your new nature. Thou shalt not covet? Peace and contentment prevents that in your new nature. Thou shalt not lie? Kindness prevents that in your new nature. Honor your parents? Longsuffering and gentleness takes care of them for as long as they live. Believing in the name of Jesus Christ? Joy unspeakable!

You and Jason prove the futility of these kind of debates. The law on stone got transferred to tablets if human hearts( 2cor3:3). I've given you examples of that. You refuse to accept it.

Thou shalt not admit to error

 

[1stcenturylady]

You will be judged by God, as we all will.

Yay!

 

[1stcenturylady]

I would put Stuart on ignore 1stcenturylady. You will be more at peace if you do.


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You haven't. Besides, I'm still waiting for him to wish me a Happy Birthday.