Catholics, what exactly do you believe about Mary?

[Goatee]

If I said to you that the moon can be seen in the night sky......you would disagree with that regardless of posted facts and figures.

This has become way to argumentative for me so I am allowing you the last word. I leave with this fact, I am not the enemy and I certainly not your judge.

I hope that you will be well.

Well, i have posted a quote above with facts in it but you disagree with it because it does not meet with 'your' belief of what you think about the subject matter.

You said you take the Bible in a literal way but some 'literal' things you move around to suit your beliefs.

I dont know what denomination, if any you belong to.

Many people jumped ship from the CC when the waters got too rough for them. The made little 'rafts' that went off in all directions.

For me, the CC has Jesus at its helm. He guides it through the turbulent waters.

Sola Scriptura is not mentioned in the Bible. In the early days, well for hundreds of years after the resurrection the scripture was vocal. Hardly anything was written. People could not look at the Bible as it didnt exist. People relied on the spoken word.

It was hundreds of years later that the CC put together the Bible.

Your thoughts about being 'literal' did not exist for hundreds of years! The Holy Spirit guided the preachers. Like today, the Holy Spirit still guides the CC. Like it or not, this is very true.

The 'Bible' as you know it did not exist for several hundred years.

 

[Major1]

But, what you 'see' is different from me so that makes your way the 'only' correct view?

I must be saying things the wrong way for you to keep coming up with the argument of "ME" seeing things differently than you do.

God said in Exodus 20:4-5.......
"You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me".

Obviously I am not "SEEING" these words correctly. Now, how do YOU "SEE" those words? Did God say that?????? Can God lie?????

Are we as men to bow down to any man made statue or graven image whether it be for worship or veneration whether it be in the field or the Catholic church?

Matthew 23:9........
"And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven."

How do YOU see that?? Did God say that????? Can God lie.????

Am I seeing this wrong or is there another Bible directive which says that we are to call our pastors and bishops "FATHER".

1 Timothy 3:1-2.......
"This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop, he desires a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach".

Again, I am sure that it is me not being able to "SEE" the written words by Paul, but do you understand that he said that a BISHOP HAS TO BE A MARRIED MAN?

Are the bishops and pastors of the Catholic faith MARRIED men?

I am not trying to argue. It is just that you keep saying that I am seeing things differently than you are. That in fact is very true.

 

[PeaceB]

I must be saying things the wrong way for you to keep coming up with the argument of "ME" seeing things differently than you do.

God said in Exodus 20:4-5.......
"You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me".

Obviously I am not "SEEING" these words correctly. Now, how do YOU "SEE" those words? Did God say that?????? Can God lie?????

Are we as men to bow down to any man made statue or graven image whether it be for worship or veneration whether it be in the field or the Catholic church?

Matthew 23:9........
"And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven."

How do YOU see that?? Did God say that????? Can God lie.????

Am I seeing this wrong or is there another Bible directive which says that we are to call our pastors and bishops "FATHER".

1 Timothy 3:1-2.......
"This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop, he desires a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach".

Again, I am sure that it is me not being able to "SEE" the written words by Paul, but do you understand that he said that a BISHOP HAS TO BE A MARRIED MAN?

Are the bishops and pastors of the Catholic faith MARRIED men?

I am not trying to argue. It is just that you keep saying that I am seeing things differently than you are. That in fact is very true.

Do Catholics Worship Statues? | Catholic Answers

Call No Man "Father"? | Catholic Answers

Must Bishops Be the Husband of One Wife? | Catholic Answers

 

[Major1]

Do Catholics Worship Statues? | Catholic Answers

Call No Man "Father"? | Catholic Answers

Must Bishops Be the Husband of One Wife? | Catholic Answers

Exodus 20:4-5.
Matthew23:9
1 Timothy 3:1-2

Why would I need to read Catholic explinations when I have the clear, simple Word of God?

 

[Albion]

'probably' is not fact is it.

But it beats Probably Not, which is how the other possibilities were evaluated, including the one you favor.

 

[PeaceB]

Exodus 20:4-5.
Matthew23:9
1 Timothy 3:1-2

Why would I need to read Catholic explanations when I have the clear, simple Word of God?

You asked for an explanation, you got one. And you obviously need one because you do not understand the scriptures you cited, regardless of how clear or unclear they may be.

 

[Goatee]

I must be saying things the wrong way for you to keep coming up with the argument of "ME" seeing things differently than you do.

God said in Exodus 20:4-5.......
"You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me".

Obviously I am not "SEEING" these words correctly. Now, how do YOU "SEE" those words? Did God say that?????? Can God lie?????

Are we as men to bow down to any man made statue or graven image whether it be for worship or veneration whether it be in the field or the Catholic church?

Matthew 23:9........
"And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven."

How do YOU see that?? Did God say that????? Can God lie.????

Am I seeing this wrong or is there another Bible directive which says that we are to call our pastors and bishops "FATHER".

1 Timothy 3:1-2.......
"This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop, he desires a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach".

Again, I am sure that it is me not being able to "SEE" the written words by Paul, but do you understand that he said that a BISHOP HAS TO BE A MARRIED MAN?

Are the bishops and pastors of the Catholic faith MARRIED men?

I am not trying to argue. It is just that you keep saying that I am seeing things differently than you are. That in fact is very true.

Did not God instruct Moses to construct an Ark? Did not people bow down in front of it?

Did not God instruct Moses to construct a serpent for people to look to?

You see, God knows what is in our minds when we pray. He knows we are not praying to a bit of stone etc. People keep bringing up the 'graven image' quote but that was 'before' God gave us Jesus.

As Christians, God knows that we are worshiping Him. Doesn't matter if we kneel in front of a cross, an altar, a Bible, a Picture a tree etc. GOD KNOWS WE ARE PRAYING TO HIM!

Priests and Bishops used to be married in the CC and Anglican priests coming over to the CC can be married. As you know, the reason why non-married was enforced is because it was being abused many hundreds of years ago!

The Bible says to cut off your arm if you sin with it. Do people actually do that?

Jesus said to eat His flesh and drink His blood, do you do that? In the CC the Eucharist 'IS' His flesh and blood.

You say you take the Bible 'literally' but that is selective to your 'needs' etc.

You have a 'boxed' in approach to the Bible. Once that back cover is closed thats it! For us Catholics God continues to teach and show us as he has done down through history.

Can you show me where in the Bible it says 'Sola Scripture?'

How do 'you' know that the way you are understanding scripture is the right way? Yours is different in many ways to the CC or some other 'faiths'.

What denomination are you my friend?

 

[Goatee]

Do Catholics Worship Statues? | Catholic Answers

Call No Man "Father"? | Catholic Answers

Must Bishops Be the Husband of One Wife? | Catholic Answers

Brilliant post. Good info but obviously our non - CC friends wont agree with.

 

[Goatee]

But it beats Probably Not, which is how the other possibilities were evaluated, including the one you favor.

lol, but, we have history to show us that these ancient people would greet people as 'brother' and 'sister'.

When trying to understand these verses, note that the term "brother" (Greek: adelphos) has a wide meaning in the Bible. It is not restricted to the literal meaning of a full brother or half-brother. The same goes for "sister" (adelphe) and the plural form "brothers" (adelphoi). The Old Testament shows that "brother" had a wide semantic range of meaning and could refer to any male relative from whom you are not descended (male relatives from whom you are descended are known as "fathers") and who are not descended from you (your male descendants, regardless of the number of generations removed, are your "sons"), as well as kinsmen such as cousins, those who are members of the family by marriage or by law rather than by blood, and even friends or mere political allies (2 Sam. 1:26; Amos 1:9).

Lot, for example, is called Abraham’s "brother" (Gen. 14:14), even though, being the son of Haran, Abraham’s brother (Gen. 11:26–28), he was actually Abraham’s nephew. Similarly, Jacob is called the "brother" of his uncle Laban (Gen. 29:15). Kish and Eleazar were the sons of Mahli. Kish had sons of his own, but Eleazar had no sons, only daughters, who married their "brethren," the sons of Kish. These "brethren" were really their cousins (1 Chr. 23:21–22).

The terms "brothers," "brother," and "sister" did not refer only to close relatives. Sometimes they meant kinsmen (Deut. 23:7; Neh. 5:7; Jer. 34:9), as in the reference to the forty-two "brethren" of King Azariah (2 Kgs. 10:13–14).

 

[PeaceB]

Brilliant post. Good info but obviously our non - CC friends wont agree with.

Thank you. I think I am going to stick with the "paste a link to an article" approach with more of the silly objections.

 

[Albion]

lol, but, we have history to show us that these ancient people would greet people as 'brother' and 'sister'.

I already know your preferred interpretation. It is still unlikely.

I haven't said that one particular interpretation is absolutely, undeniably, the correct one; but I have said that one is most probably the correct one--and that's also what the link you yourself presented to us as some sort of evidence had to say. So that's all there is that needs to be said.

 

[Goatee]

I already know your preferred interpretation. It is still unlikely.

I haven't said that one particular interpretation is absolutely, undeniably, the correct one; but I have said that one is most probably the correct one--and that's also what the link you yourself presented to us as some sort of evidence had to say. So that's all there is that needs to be said.

This:

When trying to understand these verses, note that the term "brother" (Greek: adelphos) has a wide meaning in the Bible. It is not restricted to the literal meaning of a full brother or half-brother. The same goes for "sister" (adelphe) and the plural form "brothers" (adelphoi). The Old Testament shows that "brother" had a wide semantic range of meaning and could refer to any male relative from whom you are not descended (male relatives from whom you are descended are known as "fathers") and who are not descended from you (your male descendants, regardless of the number of generations removed, are your "sons"), as well as kinsmen such as cousins, those who are members of the family by marriage or by law rather than by blood, and even friends or mere political allies (2 Sam. 1:26; Amos 1:9).

Lot, for example, is called Abraham’s "brother" (Gen. 14:14), even though, being the son of Haran, Abraham’s brother (Gen. 11:26–28), he was actually Abraham’s nephew. Similarly, Jacob is called the "brother" of his uncle Laban (Gen. 29:15). Kish and Eleazar were the sons of Mahli. Kish had sons of his own, but Eleazar had no sons, only daughters, who married their "brethren," the sons of Kish. These "brethren" were really their cousins (1 Chr. 23:21–22).

The terms "brothers," "brother," and "sister" did not refer only to close relatives. Sometimes they meant kinsmen (Deut. 23:7; Neh. 5:7; Jer. 34:9), as in the reference to the forty-two "brethren" of King Azariah (2 Kgs. 10:13–14).

 

[Major1]

You asked for an explanation, you got one. And you obviously need one because you do not understand the scriptures you cited, regardless of how clear or unclear they may be.

That would mean I favor the teachings of man over the ones from God. No thanks, I will stick with God's Word and not any Catholic apologetic web site.

 

[Major1]

This:

When trying to understand these verses, note that the term "brother" (Greek: adelphos) has a wide meaning in the Bible. It is not restricted to the literal meaning of a full brother or half-brother. The same goes for "sister" (adelphe) and the plural form "brothers" (adelphoi). The Old Testament shows that "brother" had a wide semantic range of meaning and could refer to any male relative from whom you are not descended (male relatives from whom you are descended are known as "fathers") and who are not descended from you (your male descendants, regardless of the number of generations removed, are your "sons"), as well as kinsmen such as cousins, those who are members of the family by marriage or by law rather than by blood, and even friends or mere political allies (2 Sam. 1:26; Amos 1:9).

Lot, for example, is called Abraham’s "brother" (Gen. 14:14), even though, being the son of Haran, Abraham’s brother (Gen. 11:26–28), he was actually Abraham’s nephew. Similarly, Jacob is called the "brother" of his uncle Laban (Gen. 29:15). Kish and Eleazar were the sons of Mahli. Kish had sons of his own, but Eleazar had no sons, only daughters, who married their "brethren," the sons of Kish. These "brethren" were really their cousins (1 Chr. 23:21–22).

The terms "brothers," "brother," and "sister" did not refer only to close relatives. Sometimes they meant kinsmen (Deut. 23:7; Neh. 5:7; Jer. 34:9), as in the reference to the forty-two "brethren" of King Azariah (2 Kgs. 10:13–14).

And most of the time that meant exactly what they meant....Brother was a biological kinsman.

Every single Catholic apologetic web site will say the same as "Brethren of the Lord" my friend.

That still does not make them correct as it is only a talking point to spin what the meaning needs to be to reinforce the RCC dogma. It is just that simple.

 

[Goatee]

That would mean I favor the teachings of man over the ones from God. No thanks, I will stick with God's Word and not any Catholic apologetic web site.

Thing is, you are deciding how 'you' 'interpret' what you read from scripture.

How are you so sure that what you glean from scripture is the correct reading as opposed to the CC or any other 'faith?'

 

[Goatee]

And most of the time that meant exactly what they meant....Brother was a biological kinsman.

lol, doesn't say that though, its what you 'think' it says my friend! You have added 'biological' because that is what 'you' think it is!

 

[Goatee]

And most of the time that meant exactly what they meant....Brother was a biological kinsman.

Every single Catholic apologetic web site will say the same as "Brethren of the Lord" my friend.

That still does not make them correct as it is only a talking point to spin what the meaning needs to be to reinforce the RCC dogma. It is just that simple.

You mean that because of your 'literal' boundaries in reading scripture you can only see 'brother' or 'sister' as biological when in truth it is well know these words were used for those 'other than' biological..

 

[Goatee]

What denomination are you major1?

 

[PeaceB]

That would mean I favor the teachings of man over the ones from God. No thanks, I will stick with God's Word and not any Catholic apologetic web site.

No, what you favor is to be your own authority, rather than to be under the authority of the Church that Jesus founded. That is basically what it comes down to. You want to be in control and have everything be your way. You say "I will stick with God's Word" only as a pretense to do whatever you want, and to substitute your own judgement for the judgement of his church.

But I am not your judge nor your enemy.

 

[Major1]

lol, doesn't say that though, its what you 'think' it says my friend! You have added 'biological' because that is what 'you' think it is!

Absolutely correct! It does NOT say that but that is the way I understand it.

So the question remains, did Jesus have siblings? Four men—James, Joses, Simon, and Judas—are mentioned as the brothers or siblings of Jesus. That is what is printed in Matthew 13:55; Mark 6:3.

The Scriptures tell us that they were Jesus' actual siblings/brothers, that is, half brothers, sons of Joseph and Mary. That is the most logical way to understand those Scriptures.

I say again to you that the only reason to not accept them as the obvious answer is so that the perpetual virginity of Mary can be maintained. There is no other reason than that possible my friend.

That is why you accept them "cousins and others". It has NOTHING to do with what I think or believe at all. It only has to do with the Catholic doctrine of the perpetual virginity of Mary.
Now if that is what you choose to believe, fine and dandy with me. I really do not care.