Catholics, what exactly do you believe about Mary?

[Major1]

So, if that is so, do you believe the 'literal' meaning of this passage:

John 6:53
53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you;

You know very well or at least you should know what "Transubstantiation" is.

To answer your question as I have already said.........some verse are obviously and actually common sense allow us to understand that Jesus did not mean that we would be zombies and consume His flesh.

Clearly Jesus was speaking spiritually taking Him into our mind, and spirit as the actually eating would accomplish nothing and in this case the literal meaning can not be accepted because He was standing there, right in front of them. But YOU knew that didn't you????

The CONTEXT of the teaching is that Jesus is preparing His disciples for the 1st Communion service.
What Jesus is saying is that He is going to give His life.

 

[Albion]

'Probably' not being 'fact'.

But it's the most likely explanation, as I pointed out before. Your link simply confirmed that.

 

[Major1]

Also, people say that 'James', one of the 12 was the biological 'brother' of Jesus. But, if we look at this bit of scripture look what is said about 'James'

Matthew 10
The Twelve Apostles
10 And he called to him his twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every disease and every infirmity. 2 The names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zeb′edee, and John his brother; 3 Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus;4 Simon the Cananaean, and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him.

Why is he called son of Alphaeus when people say he is the biological brother of Our Lord?

James was indeed a 'brother' of Jesus. As were all the Apostles! Not 'biological brothers'

You are incorrect my friend.

Many men were named James. James the son of Alphesus is exactly that and he is not the brother of Jesus. However, the writer of the book of James IS the biological half brother of Jesus.

James, brother of Jesus was the oldest of his four step-brothers and that is because Jesus' biological father was God, while James' biological father was Joseph.

I know that this Bible fact really throws a wrench into the Catholic teaching that Mary was a perpetual virgin, but that is the Bible truth.

 

[Major1]

My friend, you claim to be correct while the CC is not. That is your view. I prefer the view of the 'True' church, the CC.

NOT SO in any way.

I said and still claim that the BIBLE is correct. If the CC does not teach what the Bible says then YES it is wrong.

 

[Major1]

Brother Definition and Meaning - Bible Dictionary

Again, posted.

You fail to accept how people saw each other in ancient times! Not 'all' brothers and sisters were 'biological' brothers or sisters

Except the ones where the Scriptures say that they are!

Again I say t you that The ONLY reason that a Catholic challenges and ultimately rejects the Bible words that Jesus had "BROTHERS AND SISTERS" is because those words reject Catholic teaching which claiming Mary was a virgin before and AFTER giving birth to Jesus.

So you are rejecting the Bible truth for the denominational teaching of men.

Now you can stop coming up with theories and thoughts and questions. It is just as simple as I just said to you.

I know that is hard to hear. I know what it does to your mind and heart. But my dear friend, it IS WHAT THE BIBLE ACTUALLY SAYS.

 

[Major1]

You do realise that you can indeed be fallible in your reading of scripture. Give a portion of scripture to, say, 100 people and you will get many different interpretation. Which one is correct?

You are correct. People can be fallible because people, ALL people including Mary are sinners.

But the Scriptures are perfect. The problem comes when men place their faith in the words of MEN and become "religionists." My dear friend........when the Word of God says something, no matter what it is, if you do not agree with what it says....YOU are wrong.

Psalms 18:30..........
"This God—his way is perfect; the word of the LORD proves true; he is a shield for all those who take refuge in him.".

2 Tim. 3:16-17...............
“Every Scripture is God-breathed, and profitable for teaching, for rebuke, for setting aright, for instruction that is in righteousness, that the man of God may be [fully] equipped—having been completed for every good work.”

Romans 12:2...........
“ Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.”

 

[Goatee]

You know very well or at least you should know what "Transubstantiation" is.

To answer your question as I have already said.........some verse are obviously and actually common sense allow us to understand that Jesus did not mean that we would be zombies and consume His flesh.

Clearly Jesus was speaking spiritually taking Him into our mind, and spirit as the actually eating would accomplish nothing and in this case the literal meaning can not be accepted because He was standing there, right in front of them. But YOU knew that didn't you????

The CONTEXT of the teaching is that Jesus is preparing His disciples for the 1st Communion service.
What Jesus is saying is that He is going to give His life.

Lol, so, you 'DON'T' take the written word literally then!! You fibbed my friend! You said earlier that you took it literally!

 

[Goatee]

But it's the most likely explanation, as I pointed out before. Your link simply confirmed that.

'Most Likely' is not 'the' explanation! lol

 

[Goatee]

You are incorrect my friend.

Many men were named James. James the son of Alphesus is exactly that and he is not the brother of Jesus. However, the writer of the book of James IS the biological half brother of Jesus.

James, brother of Jesus was the oldest of his four step-brothers and that is because Jesus' biological father was God, while James' biological father was Joseph.

I know that this Bible fact really throws a wrench into the Catholic teaching that Mary was a perpetual virgin, but that is the Bible truth.

Lol, you been tripped up and come out with an excuse my friend!

Possible identification with James, the brother of Jesus[edit]
Jerome apparently voicing the general opinion of Early Church, maintains the doctrine of perpetual virginity of Mary.[10] He proposed that James, son of Alphaeus, was to be identified with "James, the brother of the Lord" (Gal.1:19) and that the term "brother" was to be understood as "cousin."[11][12] The view of Jerome, the "Hieronymian view," became widely accepted in the Roman Catholic Church,[13] while Eastern Catholics, Eastern Orthodox and Protestants tend to distinguish between the two. Geike (1884) states that Hausrath, Delitzsch, and Schenkel think James the brother of Jesus was the son of Clophas-Alphaeus.[14]

And James the son of Alphaeus, when preaching in Jerusalem was stoned to death by the Jews, and was buried there beside the temple.[15]

It is important to remember that James, the brother of Jesus had the same death, he was stoned to death by the Jews too. With this testimony of Hippolytus there would be no doubt that James the son of Alphaeus is the same person as James the brother of Jesus.

 

[Goatee]

NOT SO in any way.

I said and still claim that the BIBLE is correct. If the CC does not teach what the Bible says then YES it is wrong.

You say the Bible is correct but only with the way 'you' understand its words? Correct?

 

[Goatee]

Except the ones where the Scriptures say that they are!

Again I say t you that The ONLY reason that a Catholic challenges and ultimately rejects the Bible words that Jesus had "BROTHERS AND SISTERS" is because those words reject Catholic teaching which claiming Mary was a virgin before and AFTER giving birth to Jesus.

So you are rejecting the Bible truth for the denominational teaching of men.

Now you can stop coming up with theories and thoughts and questions. It is just as simple as I just said to you.

I know that is hard to hear. I know what it does to your mind and heart. But my dear friend, it IS WHAT THE BIBLE ACTUALLY SAYS.

Again, what the Bible says is determined as to how 'you' read it! The CC reads it differently, which, in your eyes, is incorrectly!

 

[Goatee]

You are correct. People can be fallible because people, ALL people including Mary are sinners.

But the Scriptures are perfect. The problem comes when men place their faith in the words of MEN and become "religionists." My dear friend........when the Word of God says something, no matter what it is, if you do not agree with what it says....YOU are wrong.

Psalms 18:30..........
"This God—his way is perfect; the word of the LORD proves true; he is a shield for all those who take refuge in him.".

2 Tim. 3:16-17...............
“Every Scripture is God-breathed, and profitable for teaching, for rebuke, for setting aright, for instruction that is in righteousness, that the man of God may be [fully] equipped—having been completed for every good work.”

Romans 12:2...........
“ Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.”

Oh, but you are a 'man' are you not? Why should i believe what you say about how 'you' read the Bible? You said yourself that the problem arises when one puts his faith in man! You read the Bible and tell me that what you have read and how you interpret that reading is the correct version / answer / way! Isn't that hypocritical?

 

[Major1]

Oh, but you are a 'man' are you not? Why should i believe what you say about how 'you' read the Bible? You said yourself that the problem arises when one puts his faith in man! You read the Bible and tell me that what you have read and how you interpret that reading is the correct version / answer / way! Isn't that hypocritical?

If that is what you think.

 

[Major1]

You say the Bible is correct but only with the way 'you' understand its words? Correct?

Nope. You are incorrect again my friend. It is what is no matter what I say.

 

[Major1]

Lol, you been tripped up and come out with an excuse my friend!

Possible identification with James, the brother of Jesus[edit]
Jerome apparently voicing the general opinion of Early Church, maintains the doctrine of perpetual virginity of Mary.[10] He proposed that James, son of Alphaeus, was to be identified with "James, the brother of the Lord" (Gal.1:19) and that the term "brother" was to be understood as "cousin."[11][12] The view of Jerome, the "Hieronymian view," became widely accepted in the Roman Catholic Church,[13] while Eastern Catholics, Eastern Orthodox and Protestants tend to distinguish between the two. Geike (1884) states that Hausrath, Delitzsch, and Schenkel think James the brother of Jesus was the son of Clophas-Alphaeus.[14]

And James the son of Alphaeus, when preaching in Jerusalem was stoned to death by the Jews, and was buried there beside the temple.[15]

It is important to remember that James, the brother of Jesus had the same death, he was stoned to death by the Jews too. With this testimony of Hippolytus there would be no doubt that James the son of Alphaeus is the same person as James the brother of Jesus.

If I said to you that the moon can be seen in the night sky......you would disagree with that regardless of posted facts and figures.

This has become way to argumentative for me so I am allowing you the last word. I leave with this fact, I am not the enemy and I certainly not your judge.

I hope that you will be well.

 

[Albion]

'Most Likely' is not 'the' explanation! lol

Of course it is not.

What I said was that the definition given in your own link is the most likely explanation. In the words of your link, these brothers and sisters were "probably" the younger children of Joseph and Mary.

 

[Vicomte13]

And since YOU brought that up, I am sure that YOU are aware of the CONTEXT of the teaching of Jesus from hence came the quote.

You did not post the quote you are using so you are leaving it to me to do so..

The one I am familiar with is Jesus speaking on the Mount and was teaching us that if we are angry with our brother, we are guilty of murder.

He was saying that if we break one Law we break them all. All sin must be paid for, completely! We either pay for our own sin or we accept the payment Jesus made for us.

Do YOU keep every Commandment?

Now having said that I would encourage you to be more understanding in your thinking.

Everyone uses “a” method of Bible study and interpretation, whether conscious or not. Some use what has been called the magic finger method. Others use the devotional approach, and make application before they are sure of what the verse actually means.

Yet others are content to let others tell them what the Bible means… missing out on the joy of discovering truths in the Word for themselves. Unfortunately some others have given up on Bible study altogether, having concluded that it is just too complicated. There are better ways to approach the subject of Bible study.

The best method of interpreting the Bible is to understand this Book as you would any other piece of literature or human speech.

It has been said......."The best interpretation of a historical record is no interpretation but simply letting the divine Author of the record say what He says and assuming He says what He means." (The Revelation Record)

I use the "Literal" approach first.
This is the way we communicate in ever day speech.

We ALL employ this method of interpretation in speech, in reading literature, in legal contracts, and in other forms of communication. Imagine if you bought a new car and the seller used the “spiritual” method of interpreting the contract? ($600.00 per month for five years doesn’t literally mean for five literal years. It means an undetermined length of time… and $600.00 means a large sum of money… which is to be determined by the interpreter.)

“To interpret means to explain the original sense of a speaker or writer. To interpret literally means to explain the original sense of the speaker or writer according to the normal, customary, and proper usages of words and language. Literal interpretation of the Bible simply means explaining the original sense of the Bible according to the normal and customary usages of its language.”

“The literal method of interpretation is that method that gives to each word the same exact basic meaning it would have in normal, ordinary, customary usage, whether employed in writing, speaking or thinking.”

I hope this helps you.

He used until in the parable of the unforgiving servant.

 

[Goatee]

Nope. You are incorrect again my friend. It is what is no matter what I say.

But, what you 'see' is different from me so that makes your way the 'only' correct view?

 

[Goatee]

If I said to you that the moon can be seen in the night sky......you would disagree with that regardless of posted facts and figures.

This has become way to argumentative for me so I am allowing you the last word. I leave with this fact, I am not the enemy and I certainly not your judge.

I hope that you will be well.

I know you are not the enemy. We are only discussing things.

God bless you

 

[Goatee]

Of course it is not.

What I said was that the definition given in your own link is the most likely explanation. In the words of your link, these brothers and sisters were "probably" the younger children of Joseph and Mary.

'probably' is not fact is it. There were many other explanations in that quote. I prefer to agree with how people know how the ancients thought of each other regarding 'brother' and 'sister'.