Catholics, what exactly do you believe about Mary?

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melody5697

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A good friend of mine (who is Pentacostal) has some very confused ideas about what Catholics believe. I mentioned to him that there are people who call themselves "Christian Wiccans" and believe that Mary is a goddess, and he said that it sounds like they've got some Catholic ideology behind them. I'm like, uh, Catholics don't think that Mary is a goddess. He said, "They think she's the Queen Of Heaven and the mother of God. So yeah, they kinda do." He thinks that, while Catholics don't actually refer to her as a goddess, she's given the same status minus the name. I tried to explain that Catholics DO NOT believe that Mary is an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent being and that there's a big difference between honoring Mary more than they should and actually worshipping her, and my friend just said, "You don't know much about pantheons, do you?" I asked my dad (who is Eastern Orthodox but knows a lot about other denominations' beliefs) if he could explain what Catholics ACTUALLY believe so I could tell my friend, and he said that my friend has heard misinformation spread by Chick Publishing. He's busy right now and won't be able to explain what Catholics believe until this evening, and I realized it would probably be better to ask Catholics anyway. So, Catholics. What do you ACTUALLY believe about Mary?
 

Saint Beloved

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Please excuse me butting in but this is something I'm also interested in.
From what I've understood and observed so far I think they think highly of Mary the way the rest of us think highly of Paul or Peter, Spurgeon or Barclay. Except that they talk to her and we talk of them.
 
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JesusLovesOurLady

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Eastern Orthodox believe that Mary is the both the Mother of God and Queen of Heaven, so I don't know why your dad would make such a blasphemous allegation. I'd love to explain it to why we should love the Blessed Mother, the way Our Lord did, but I'm about to take break to pray the Divine Mercy hour, and then have some errands to run. So I'll just tell you to look up the Four Marian Dogmas, and then check out this webpage that has quotes from the early Church Fathers on one of our devotions about Mary: Church Fathers on Mary as Ark of the New Covenant ::

In regards to Mary being called Queen of Heaven, the original Hebrew would be Gebirah HaShamayim, not, Malkuth HaShamayim, it has nothing to do with the Canaanite she-devil Asherah.

Mother of God is very easy:
-Jesus was God before He was born
-Jesus was God after He was born
Therefore: Jesus was God during His birth, and thus, Mary gave birth to God!
 
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melody5697

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Eastern Orthodox believe that Mary is the both the Mother of God and Queen of Heaven, so I don't know why your dad would make such a blasphemous allegation. I'd love to explain it to why we should love the Blessed Mother, the way Our Lord did, but I'm about to take break to pray the Divine Mercy hour, and then have some errands to run. So I'll just tell you to look up the Four Marian Dogmas, and then check out this webpage that has quotes from the early Church Fathers on one of our devotions about Mary: Church Fathers on Mary as Ark of the New Covenant ::

In regards to Mary being called Queen of Heaven, the original Hebrew would be Gebirah HaShamayim, not, Malkuth HaShamayim, it has nothing to do with the Canaanite she-devil Asherah.

Mother of God is very easy:
-Jesus was God before He was born
-Jesus was God after He was born
Therefore: Jesus was God during His birth, and thus, Mary gave birth to God!
I believe you misunderstood. My dad didn't say that Mary isn't the Queen of Heaven and the mother of God. The problem here is that my friend thinks that you think that Mary is a goddess. THAT'S what my dad was saying is misinformation from Chick Publishing.
 
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JesusLovesOurLady

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I believe you misunderstood. My dad didn't say that Mary isn't the Queen of Heaven and the mother of God. The problem here is that my friend thinks that you think that Mary is a goddess. THAT'S what my dad was saying is misinformation from Chick Publishing.
Oh, alright.

I forget how many of the Four Dogmas, the Eastern Orthodox believe, I know for sure, they believe that Mary is the Mother God, and that Mary was perpetually Virgin. But I forget if they believe one or none of the other two Dogmas, her Immaculate Conception (Conceived by her father and mother without Original Sin) and her Assumption into Heaven.
 
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Raphael Jauregui

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A good friend of mine (who is Pentacostal) has some very confused ideas about what Catholics believe. I mentioned to him that there are people who call themselves "Christian Wiccans" and believe that Mary is a goddess, and he said that it sounds like they've got some Catholic ideology behind them. I'm like, uh, Catholics don't think that Mary is a goddess. He said, "They think she's the Queen Of Heaven and the mother of God. So yeah, they kinda do." He thinks that, while Catholics don't actually refer to her as a goddess, she's given the same status minus the name. I tried to explain that Catholics DO NOT believe that Mary is an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent being and that there's a big difference between honoring Mary more than they should and actually worshipping her, and my friend just said, "You don't know much about pantheons, do you?" I asked my dad (who is Eastern Orthodox but knows a lot about other denominations' beliefs) if he could explain what Catholics ACTUALLY believe so I could tell my friend, and he said that my friend has heard misinformation spread by Chick Publishing. He's busy right now and won't be able to explain what Catholics believe until this evening, and I realized it would probably be better to ask Catholics anyway. So, Catholics. What do you ACTUALLY believe about Mary?
As an Anglo-Catholic, I do not share the beliefs in exactitude with the Catholic Church, but Anglo-Catholics in the Anglican Church do share a veneration and love for the Virgin Mary. For us, we believe she is the Mother of God because Jesus Christ is fully God and fully man. Therefore, we can say that she is the Mother of God. We also believe she is the Queen Mother and that she can intercede with prayer on our behalf. We do not, however, worship her. We venerate her as a saint and mother.
 
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Raphael Jauregui

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Oh, alright.

I forget how many of the Four Dogmas, the Eastern Orthodox believe, I know for sure, they believe that Mary is the Mother God, and that Mary was perpetually Virgin. But I forget if they believe one or none of the other two Dogmas, her Immaculate Conception (Conceived by her father and mother without Original Sin) and her Assumption into Heaven.
Eastern Orthodox do believe in the Assumption of Mary, the Dormition of the Theotokos, but do not regard it as on the level of dogma. The Orthodox churches do not believe in the immaculate conception although many will teach that Mary was voluntarily sinless in her life.
 
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tadoflamb

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I believe that the Blessed Virgin Mary is the Immaculate Conception, that she was preserved by her Son from the stain of original sin.

I believe that she is the Mother of God.

I believe that she is the Mother of the Church.

I believe that she is Perpetually Virgin.

I believe that she was assumed body and soul into Heaven.

I believe that she was crowned the Queen of Heaven.

I believe that she does hear our prayers.

I believe that she was the greatest Catholic mystic of all time.

I believe that her and Christ were the two people in history who could best discern the will of God.

I believe she is responsible for introducing me to her glorious Son. This is why I also believe she is our co-mediatrix.

I believe that I can never love her as much as Jesus did.

I believe that she loves roses.

I believe we should 'behold our mother'.

That's it for now.
 
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melody5697

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And she IS NOT given the status of a goddess, correct? Before I show this thread to my friend, I'd like for someone to clearly state that she isn't given a status equivalent to that of a goddess. I understand, of course, that she has been given no such status by the Catholic Church, but my friend doesn't.
 
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Albion

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And she IS NOT given the status of a goddess, correct? Before I show this thread to my friend, I'd like for someone to clearly state that she isn't given a status equivalent to that of a goddess. I understand, of course, that she has been given no such status by the Catholic Church, but my friend doesn't.
It's not whether the church or members have 'given her the status'. It's whether they treat her, de facto, as one would treat a goddess. Not saying that the answer is one way or the other, but that's the real issue.
 
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paul becke

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One of the egregious strengths of the Catholic church, its intellectual patrimony, paradoxically, can also be one of its weaknesses. But I want to draw to attention to the strength of its current intellectual catchment, notably among the clergy, as well as its patrimony, most of which has been preserved over the past two thousand years, together with the Shroud of Turin and the Sudarium (or Head-Cloth) of Oviedo.

The former, in particular, seems to prompt the same muddle-headed disbelief among some Protestants as the Christian faith does among atheists, and presumably for a similar reason : it is felt as a threat to their world-view, notably with regard to the Catholic church's obvious claim to be the church instituted by Christ and proclaimed by is Apostles, disciples and the Fathers of the early church.

The fact that it has historically been a church of extremes, sublime at one pole and utterly depraved at the other, is a matter of voluminous record, and one which Pope Francis is seeking to remedy. No doubt it resulted from a perhaps excessive concentration on Jesus' precept concerning preservation of the tares, until Judgment Day ; while respecting the progressive amelioration of the lot of the poor under secular governments, too little. Another imbalance Francis is endeavouring to remedy, while wary of ideologies, arguably too much, though that is only a personal opinion.

I understand his point in principle and concur with it, although, in practice, it is arguably impracticable, if only because, as that magisterial economist, J M Keynes, remarked : 'In the long run, we are all dead.' And without an ideological framework, based on Christian teaching, there is an element of straining at a gnat, to swallow a camel about the piece-meal largesse of giving a little money to a homeless person when the fit takes us.

Anyway, that is a digression. What I really wish to say about our extraordinary reverence for Mary is that it is one of the key features of her divine wisdom that Catholic church recognises that it is extraordinarily important that we understand that, in God's providential economy, He ALWAYS uses the most appropriate means to accomplish whatever end he wishes to achieve.

Christ is God.

Mary gave birth to him as both true God, having been inseminated by the Holy Spirit, and true man, as the son of the purely human Mary.

Now we know that God has every gift we possibly could imagine and doubtless even more that we could not. Now, ask yourself, what level of dignity, of blessedness, could be too great, at least, that is, short of divinity, itself, that Jesus would have accorded his mother. No matter how great it has to be, it can never ever, ever, ever, approach the infinity of God's own qualities and capacities. Neither angels nor men can ever fathom the depths of God. But God was certainly not going to sell Himself short, when he was assigning his gifts to the mother of his Son. And that is putting it mildly.

The Glorious Mystery of the Rosary of the crowning of Our Lady as Queen of Heaven, in fact, has always seemed to me to be rather redundant, in view of that de facto, sovereign (human) dignity she was accorded, when greeted by the Archangel Gabriel on the accasion of the Annunciation.
 
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Albion

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Now, ask yourself, what level of dignity, of blessedness, could be too great,

It's at this point that all the level-headed, scripture-based, thinking that Catholics naturally utilize when explaining their church to non-Catholics...begins to go off the rails.

It's not geared to Scripture. And it's not even geared to Tradition (despite the mountains of posts Catholics create in order to defend Tradition). It's just low-level speculation: "If X is true and if Y is true, then why can't we assume that if God thought and acted like his creatures do, he would do what we think logical of him to have done in addition? Yes, that would be a good idea, so we'll proclaim it true, too."
 
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I believe that the Blessed Virgin Mary is the Immaculate Conception, that she was preserved by her Son from the stain of original sin.
Disagree.

I believe that she is the Mother of God.
Agree.

I believe that she is the Mother of the Church.
Maybe.

I believe that she is Perpetually Virgin.
Agree.

I believe that she was assumed body and soul into Heaven.
Possibly. No opinion.

I believe that she was crowned the Queen of Heaven.
No opinion. Tend to disagree.

I believe that she does hear our prayers.
That would require a level of omniscience belonging only to God. However, I do believe that she constantly prays for the Church.

I believe that she was the greatest Catholic mystic of all time.
No opinion. She was not Catholic as we understand the meaning of Catholic.

I believe that her and Christ were the two people in history who could best discern the will of God.
*she. And there is no evidence for this.

I believe she is responsible for introducing me to her glorious Son. This is why I also believe she is our co-mediatrix.
Jesus was introduced to you by the word of God, just like every other Christian for all time. "Co-mediatrix" is unscriptural. 1 Timothy 2:5 - For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus

I believe that I can never love her as much as Jesus did.
Obvie.

I believe that she loves roses.
Roses are red
and violets are blue.
Mary loves roses
and I do too.

I believe we should 'behold our mother'.
If that means honoring the BVM, holding her in high regard as the most blessed among women, and appreciating her godly example of humility, unquestioning obedience, and willingness to suffer shame and judgment joyfully for the sake of Our Lord, then yes, I would agree.

That's it for now.
:)
 
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archer75

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It's not whether the church or members have 'given her the status'. It's whether they treat her, de facto, as one would treat a goddess. Not saying that the answer is one way or the other, but that's the real issue.
It's not obvious to me how "one" would treat a goddess. Is there such consensus? I actually mean this.
 
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Albion

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It's not obvious to me how "one" would treat a goddess. Is there such consensus? I actually mean this.
Sure. There is no absolute answer, but one side is saying that they are concerned that Mary is treated as though she were a goddess, while the other is saying that they know better, that she is NOT thought by them to be a goddess.

Do you notice that the second group does not actually address the concern? It's not that any church has proclaimed her to BE a goddess; it's that members treat her as though she were one.

So what's the answer? First, I hope that there's no question that to treat Mary as though she were a goddess is wrong, regardless of what one states when asked. OK?

What proves--if anything--that a wrongful attitude exists with regard to Mary? It's not that she is to be honored as the birthgiver of Our Lord, or that she is regarded as a saint. But how do people approach or treat her? Well, they attribute to her the power to dispense grace and favors on behalf of God. They believe that she can insure that the person praying to her, if certain conditions are met, will not die without a last chance to repent of their sins and be saved. Many consider her to be the co-redeemer, with Jesus, of mankind. And much more in that vein. They are obviously not just honoring her.

But are they treating or looking upon her or acting in the manner that one would if dealing with a goddess? That's the issue.
 
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archer75

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Sure. There is no absolute answer, but one side is saying that they are concerned that Mary is treated as though she were a goddess, while the other is saying that they know better, that she is NOT thought by them to be a goddess.

Do you notice that the second group does not actually address the concern? It's not that any church has proclaimed her to BE a goddess; it's that members treat her as though she were one.

So what's the answer? First, I hope that there's no question that to treat Mary as though she were a goddess is wrong, regardless of what one states when asked. OK?

What proves--if anything--that a wrongful attitude exists with regard to Mary? It's not that she is to be honored as the birthgiver of Our Lord, or that she is regarded as a saint. But how do people approach or treat her? Well, they attribute to her the power to dispense grace and favors on behalf of God. They believe that she can insure that the person praying to her, if certain conditions are met, will not die without a last chance to repent of their sins and be saved. Many consider her to be the co-redeemer, with Jesus, of mankind. And much more in that vein. They are obviously not just honoring her.

But are they treating or looking upon her or acting in the manner that one would if dealing with a goddess? That's the issue.
That was clear enough, and I see what you mean. However, it seems like an impossible task to take a full account of what Roman Catholics "act like they believe" with regard to the BVM. You'll get one answer here and another there.
 
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