Having some serious doubts...help?

[Beaker]

I...How can we reconcile that we have a kind and loving God when he is willing to cast the majority of humanity into ETERNAL DAMNATION?

ACTUALLY, as 1Timothy 2 3-4 says
"This is good and pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, 4who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."
So God does not send ANYONE to hell, mankind does that to himself. As for someone who has never heard the Good News, then I believe there WILL be exceptions, as described in 2 Sam 12 v 23, talking about a child who had died "But now he is dead; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.” insinuating that the dead child is in Heaven.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[hedrick]

In no way am I trying to find loopholes.

I'm just trying to work out what my Christian beliefs are. And as part of this I'm trying to understand, do good people who are non-believers (by choice or circumstance) go to hell? Going by your answers, yes they will go to hell. It's this that I'm struggling with.

Christians are divided on this. Wesley felt there was hope. Recent Popes have as well. Calvin didn't. I'm fairly sure a majority of Christians think there are some circumstances in which non-believers are saved.

Despite the opinions of many, I don't think the Bible tells us precisely how judgement will be done. Jesus seemed to care more about whether people did what he taught than whether they accepted him. He also says that people will be judged based on what they know. (Luke 12:48) Rom 2 seems to suggest some who have faith in their hearts, though the passage is specifically about the Law.

There are lots of passages that talk about those who reject Jesus, but that may not apply to the situation you're concerned about.

But there are problem using all of those passages to answer this question. The NT often doesn't answer questions quite as directly as we'd like. I think this is one example.

If you want more information, ask Google about "evangelical inclusivism." You'll find both defenses and attacks.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Thank you. I think I can really sympathise with the view of Christianity as a philosophical exploration. I am clearly just at the start of my journey and had to just lay out my main concerns as a first step.

A lot more reading to do...

You're welcome.

And the link below is to another post I wrote last year in conversation with hedrick above, and it is related to what you've been asking about here. Maybe it will help.

Theological basis for inclusivism

 

[mcarmichael]

So? Have you formed an opinion?

 

[mcarmichael]

Amigo?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Thank you. I think I can really sympathise with the view of Christianity as a philosophical exploration. I am clearly just at the start of my journey and had to just lay out my main concerns as a first step.

A lot more reading to do...

You might also benefit by reading the following books, lotsandlotsofquestions:

1) What About Those Who Have Never Heard: Three Views on the Destiny of the Unevangelized - Gabriel Fackre, Ronald H. Nash & John Sanders

2) More Than One Way?: Four Views on Salvation in a Pluralistic World - John Hick, Clark H. Pinnock, Alister E. McGrath, R. Douglas Geivett & W. Gary Phillips

 

[mcarmichael]

I mentioned 1 Enoch.

 

[lotsandlotsofquestions]

Amigo?

Nope a lot to ponder over and learn - and in my mind, all part of my spiritual and philosophical journey.

Thanks everyone for the helpful (and some less helpful) messages.

 

[dms1972]

If the scriptures are correct, Adam started writing the first book based on his experiences.
If not, somebody tells interesting lies.

Wasn't the book of Genesis (and the first five books of the Bible) written by Moses, anyway thats what I heard.

 

[mcarmichael]

Nope a lot to ponder over and learn - and in my mind, all part of my spiritual and philosophical journey.

For sure. God be with you!

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

Thank you for your message.

What about those who don't get the choice??? By your reply, it sounds as if you believe that these innocents will go to hell (and God doesn't like it), and it's up to us to help save them. Is that the right interpretation?

Everyone gets a choice, there is no one who has no choice. We can choose God or reject Him. Because sin exists, bad things exists. Which means people choose to see God as fake and fill their heads with untrue thing. So even though its aggravating they feel that way, they still made a choice. Well, I'd say no one is innocent to some degree. After all Jesus died for all of us because there was no way we could do what was required.

There really is no innocent or guilty. There is only choosing salvation or choosing nothing. For example many people have said how could someone like Bill Gates not go to heaven when he dies (assuming he is not saved) despite all the good hes done. Well good doesn't earn you salvation or heaven. Salvation is not based on works. So to the world "good/innocent" people go to hell because they are thinking from a world view point.

Its not God doesn't like that they went to hell as much as I imagine He feels pity or sadness since people chose to reject Him and choose hell or heaven. Even if they didn't understand that these places were real. Hence when they stand before Him they have no excuse since they knew of Him, but rejected Him anyways.

Well when it comes to saving people its not like we have to lead people to Him if we didn't want to. It doesn't "earn" us salvation. But because we love like God, we should spread the word and bring as many as we can to Him. Like if you had a amazing brother or friend that you thought the world of, but you knew they were not christian, you would want to try and lead to the Lord right?

 

[mcarmichael]

Nope a lot to ponder over and learn - and in my mind, all part of my spiritual and philosophical journey.

Thanks everyone for the helpful (and some less helpful) messages.

Whatever.

 

[mcarmichael]

**ninja edit**

 

[mcarmichael]

Don't worry about a thing.

 

[Acts2:38]

Will a righteous man from the Amazon jungle who hasn't heard of the good news go to hell?

I am only a human, given the gospel by our Lord and Savior, to obey it and spread its message. I can only speak where the bible speaks. Gods way are higher than ours, I don't know the hearts of men. Only God could speak for this. Sorry if this is what you don't wish to hear.

Will a young, innocent child who's mind was polluted unwillingly by his / her family and difficult upbringing go to hell?

Even with such a background a person his held accountable to their own actions from their own choices in life. A child is not accountable to scripture until they can understand scripture. What we call the age of accountability. It could be 10 years old, sooner, or later. In the US, kids are accountable as adults by 18 years old. Their choices in life will have rewards or consequences. The same goes for scripture, if you follow it or not, its your choice, just know that there are rewards and consequences.

Would someone who was on the path to righteousness but had their life cut short (e.g. by an accident) go to hell?

The verse, "the Lord is not slack concerning His promises" and that "he is longsuffering, not willing that ANY should perish".

God is the 3 Omni's as I like to put it. God would not have someone killed off if they really were going to repent and be baptized into Christ. In otherwords, God gives people plenty of chance. It is those individuals who refuse to come and obey him.

I really hope I am explaining good enough for you. I don't like not using verses, but I am trying to respect your guideline while using the knowledge I have from scripture.

You take care and if there is anything else, let me know. I am going to call it a day soon.

 

[Kit Sigmon]

No matter what the upbringing or circumstance(s) a child (or person) can
still come to have faith in God...

 

[ClementofA]

As Christians our belief is that believers in Christ and the bible will go to heaven and non-believers will be cast into hell for eternal damnation. Eternal damnation = much worse than torture or pain...How can we reconcile that we have a kind and loving God when he is willing to cast the majority of humanity into ETERNAL DAMNATION? Someone could live a righteous and perfect life without having the opportunity to learn about Christ and suffer eternal damnation whereas someone who has sinned but repented will go to heaven?

There have always been Christians in the church who believe everyone will be saved:

Christian Universalism - Wikipedia

There are quite a few current threads on the subject in this particular forum that you happened to post on.

An internet search will turn up many pro universalism sites. This one is a book summarizing the topic & backing it up Scripturally:

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

This page has many links to a variety of related topics, such as "hell" verses explained, Early Church Father Christians who were universalists, etc:

Scholar's Corner: The Center for Bible studies in Christian Universalism

I hope that helps. May the Lord's peace be with you.

 

[Kenny'sID]

As Christians our belief is that believers in Christ and the bible will go to heaven and non-believers will be cast into hell for eternal damnation. Eternal damnation = much worse than torture or pain...How can we reconcile that we have a kind and loving God when he is willing to cast the majority of humanity into ETERNAL DAMNATION?

"Much worse than torture or pain", as in?

Thing is, neither you nor us know exactly what it ='s.

Someone could live a righteous and perfect life without having the opportunity to learn about Christ and suffer eternal damnation whereas someone who has sinned but repented will go to heaven?

I have little doubt God makes exceptions.

 

[lotsandlotsofquestions]

"Much worse than torture or pain", as in?

Thing is, neither you nor us know exactly what it ='s.

Yep - but I think it's fair to assume being condemned by God is likely to be worse than our human / mortal feelings of pain / torture.

Not sure what the point of your post was - nit pick 2 sentences out of all I said to express your superiority complex and arrogance?

I've come here as I have sincere and genuine questions, please try and respect that (as other posters have) and provide constructive feedback / help.