Judas was saved and then lost his salvation

[stuart lawrence]

These people who insist if you love Christ you will obey his literal commands, while they themselves don't even try to obey all of Christ's literal commands must be ignored.
It's just reeling off pat statements from the top of their heads that have no bearing on the reality of their own life.
Purely phariseeical. Demanding of others what you don't even try to attain to in your own life

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Jesus's problem with the Pharisees was not that they did not believe in a sin and still be saved gospel. Jesus's problem with the Pharisees is that they did not do what God's Word said.
Their life did not match up with what God's Word taught.
Jesus told them that their new converts were two fold the child of hell that they were.
So I would say that Jesus has a big problem with not obeying God as the main point he had with the Pharisees. This lines up with what John says. For 1 John 2:4 says, "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."


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[stuart lawrence]

It's actually very sad that people come on the internet who think they know, but can do no more than reel off the letter they can't live up to in their own lives.
At best it's very weak religion. At worst Matt ch23

 

[Bible Highlighter]

They say and they do not is the problem that Jesus had with the Pharisees. This is what Matthew 23 says. Eternal Security says the same thing. It says you are saved by God's grace without keeping any kind of commands of God. So a believer can tell others to obey God, and yet not worry about their own sin because it was paid for by their having a belief on Jesus. The Pharisees believed in a form of Eternal Security. They thought they were God's people by blood and that earned them the right to the Kingdom.


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[Bible Highlighter]

Therefore let us work out our salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12). Let us continue in the love of God (John 15:9). Let us persevere unto the end (Matthew 24:13). Let us continue in the faith (Acts 14:22). Let us continue in the grace of God (Acts 13:43).


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[Bible Highlighter]

The first appearance of Eternal Security (that says you can sin and not die spiritually) is in Genesis 3:4 when Satan said to Eve,

"Ye shall not surely die:" (Genesis 3:4).


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[Uber Genius]

I apologize in advance for the technical nature of this response.

Fallacy of the undistributed middle (Technical Response)

P1 -All Russians are revolutionaries
P2 - All anarchists are revolutionaries
A - Therefore all anarchists are Russians.

The middle term is 'revolutionaries." While both Russians and anarchists share the common property of being revolutionaries, making both premises true, there may be separate groups of revolutionists, and so we cannot conclude that all anarchists are the same as Russians in every way.

While Judas has many features in common with the other apostles the references that are true of most of the apostles need not be true of Judas. What is true of a group generally is not necessarily true of all members.

Further we don't have a consent of salvation until after the resurrection. But Judus was a follower who was baptized. He did perform miracles and preach the gospel to the lost with the other twelve most likely. So I think your point is fair but not so iron clad as your argument suggests. It may be a moot point as the HS wasn't yet given to draw or seal men in Christ, until Pentecost. So Judas is apples and oranges when compared to people in the church age.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

God is good.
Seeing God is good, it is not possible He would appoint as a part of one of His holy positions an evil person so as to do good things.
Yes, God can and has used evil that has already existed for His greater plan for good, but that is not the same as appointing certain individuals for holy positions that are set out to do good specifically for God's cause (as a part of His good kingdom).
It is illogical to assume otherwise.
People (who think Judas was never saved) are not thinking clearly here.

I mean, that wouild be like someone saying how the Lord would appoint the antichrist and or the devil to spread the good news. Such a thing is illogical. For what communion does light have with darkness?




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[stuart lawrence]

Hmmmmmm

People who insist sin places you in an unsaved state, also believe a habitual thief, who constantly broke one of the TC was in a saved state.

Wisdom is always proved right by its inconsistencies.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Jesus says if you do not forgive, you will not be forgiven (Matthew 6:15).
Jesus says if you look upon a woman in lust, your in danger of having your whole body being cast into hell fire (Matthew 5:28-30).
John says if any man hates his brother is like a murderer and no murderer has eternal life abiding in him (1 John 3:15).

In fact, the very first lie in the Garden from the devil is that Eve would not die if she sinned.

"Yea, ye shall not surely die." (Genesis 3:4).


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[stuart lawrence]

Yet apparently habitual thieves can be in a saved state!

Oh my oh my

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Nowhere in the Bible does it state that a practicing thief is saved in his sin of theft. It is insane to suggest that believers are saved while they do serious sin or evil. Nowhere do we see such a thing in Scripture. Peter told Simon to repent of his wickedness and pray that God would forgive him (Acts 8:22). Anyways, as for stealing: Paul says,

9 "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you..."
(1 Corinthians 6:9-11).


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[stuart lawrence]

The Bible tells us Judas WAS a habitual thief. He often dipped into the money bag and stole from it.
And yet, some who insist sin separates you from God insist Judas was saved as a disciple.

I guess it's just too hard to admit when you are in error( one way or the other) so any reasoning, however fanciful must be brought forth

 

[stuart lawrence]

Best to just ignore these people, with their contradictions. If only they had the humility to admit them

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Judas committed more than just one sin. The first sin (that we are aware of that he committed that more than likely caused his separation between himself and God) was greed. In the following piece of Scripture we see the sin of greed from Judas.

"Mary took a pound of costly ointment of pure nard and anointed the feed of Jesus and wiped His feet with her hair; and the house was filled with the fragrance of the ointment. But Judas Iscariot, one of His disciples (he who was to betray Him), said, ‘Why was this ointment not sold for three hundred denarii and given to the poor?’ This he said, not that he cared for the poor but because he was a thief, and as he had the money box, he used to take what was put into it. (John 12:3-6).​

Somewhere before John 6:60 is when Judas became a devil. So the actual point where Judas lost his salvation was sometime before here. Greed got the best of him and it led to his eventual betrayal of Jesus.


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[ToBeLoved]

9 "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you..."
(1 Corinthians 6:9-11).
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But what does the rest of verse 11 say. That "such were some of you" but why were they not considered these things anymore?

Because they had been "justified" by Christ.

If one has their sin forgiven, they are no longer a thief, drunkard, ect.

The verse is a comparision and contrast. The people of the world and then what we are in Christ.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Of course, all scripture says is, Judas was a habitual thief. NOT he became a thief whilst a disciple of Christ.
As Christians referred to Judas as a devil. NOT he became a devil once a disciple.
But I guess you have to reason anything to justify errant views

 

[ToBeLoved]

Nowhere in the Bible does it state that a practicing thief is saved in his sin of theft. It is insane to suggest that believers are saved while they do serious sin or evil. Nowhere do we see such a thing in Scripture. Peter told Simon to repent of his wickedness and pray that God would forgive him (Acts 8:22). Anyways, as for stealing: Paul says,

9 "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you..."
(1 Corinthians 6:9-11).


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I think the problem with how you present scripture is two fold.

First you really don't deliniate between the saved vs. unsaved. Which there is a BIG difference.

The second is that you show the sin and then say they will not be saved. But you don't preach the solution, which is Christ. There is none of these sins that are more powerful than the blood of Christ, the Son of God. If you preached repentance instead of condemnation I could go with it much better, but you have to remember there are very different maturity levels, in Christ reading this and many perhaps cannot or do not realize that in Christ, they are no longer these things and in repentance, none of these sins are held against them.

Christ cast repented sin as far as the east is from the west never to be heard of again.

 

[ToBeLoved]

People (who think Judas was never saved) are not thinking clearly here.

I mean, that wouild be like someone saying how the Lord would appoint the antichrist and or the devil to spread the good news. Such a thing is illogical. For what communion does light have with darkness?

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What are your verses that ever state Judas was saved?

Because Christ states that "no one can remove them from my right hand". So, if Judas was saved and then became unsaved (as you state, which of course is not true) then this verse is false. So how can Jesus preach or do that which is false if He never sinned?

It just makes no sense what you are preaching.

I don't need to know about what your own personal logic is here, but verses that show what God and Christ know.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

But what does the rest of verse 11 say. That "such were some of you" but why were they not considered these things anymore?

Because they had been "justified" by Christ.

If one has their sin forgiven, they are no longer a thief, drunkard, ect.

The verse is a comparision and contrast. The people of the world and then what we are in Christ.

One does not stop being a thief by a having a belief. It is insane to suggest otherwise. They were these things before they came to Christ.


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