Judas was saved and then lost his salvation

[Ron Gurley]

Jesus did not appoint Judas I. an "apostle" / disciple / or anything else at the Great Commission. He appointed only the remaining 11. SEE: Matthew 28: end.

Judas I. was an unbeliever, the worst betrayer in history, a money keeper, possessed by the devil, and cowardly killed himself.

Does the RCC teach otherwise? The Bible does not.

Judas I. did not "fall away".

Nor did he lose his salvation.

He was never saved.

He rejected Jesus as the Divine Messiah.

 

[Ron Gurley]

Jesus had the Divine power to discern the spirits of Man.
He fore-knew that Judas I. would never become a true believer / follower.
He fore-knew that prophecy would be fulfilled.
He allowed Judas I. to become history's icon of betrayal.
He allowed the 'sifting by satan" oF Judas I.

“Friend, wherefore art thou come?” Matthew 26:50 KJV

Judas I. was indeed “the son of perdition” (John. 17:12). devil / anti-christ is the same. (2 Th. 2:3)
Judas had an affinity for money and became the treasurer for the little band of disciples.
The love of money eventually led him to conspire with Jewish leadership and betray the Lord Jesus for thirty pieces of silver,
a “goodly price” as Zechariah 11:13 declares.

Satan entered into this UN-BELIEVER to ensure Judas' premeditated deed would be accomplished.
And so he met the Lord with a kiss, Jesus tried to bring him to his senses by asking,
“Friend, why art thou come?” (Mt. 26:50).

He went “to his own place” in hell (Acts 1:25),
like all who persist in treating the Lord’s friendship with indifference or contempt.

“Mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, hath lifted up his heel against me.” Psalm 41:9

Jesus said,
“He that is not with Me is against Me: and he that does not gather with Me scatters” (Lk. 11:23).

Judas I., who walked, ate, slept, and was on familiar terms with the Lord was not healed,
but rather “heeled” Him and trod under foot the Son of God, as do all who count His blood common or unholy (Heb. 10:29).
Thus Judas drew “back unto perdition” (Heb. 10:39).

“We took sweet counsel together, and walked … in company.” Psalm 55:14

How much more treacherous was his betrayal in that Judas led the soldiers to Jesus by feigning a kiss of kindness.Yet Jesus fore-knew from the beginning who should betray Him; thus He said to His disciples, “Ye are not all clean” (John. 13:11).

“If ye think good, give me my price … 30 pieces of silver.” Zechariah 11:12-13

The chief priests settled the bargain for the price of a slave (Ex. 21:32; Mt. 26:15).
It seems that Judas expected Jesus to somehow escape condemnation/execution,
as He had so many times before when His hour had not yet come. When Judas saw that Jesus was really going to be put to death, he threw his ill-gotten money back into the temple, but those who had given it to him refused to take it back.
The chief priests wondered what to do with the “contaminated” money, andfinally decided to purchase the worn-out potter’s field, for it was not worth much to anyone else.
This, too, was prophesied by Zechariah (11:13).
So they bought the field “to bury strangers in” (Mt. 27:7).In an act of cheap charity and pious provision on the part of the Sanhedrin, which slew the Lord of Glory, Phariseeism remained true to its hypocritical self. And ironically, in that very place, in a final act of despair, Judas committed suicide (Acts 1:18-19).

http://tafj.org/2012/06/19/judas-and-the-prophecy-of-betrayal/...extracts

Please answer the questions in your own words:

Q1. Did Jesus know that He would be "captured' because of" Judas?
A1. Jesus the God-Man miraculously fore-knew of the unbelief of and betrayal by Judas I.

Q2. If He did, then WHY did He let himself be captured?
A2. To fulfill prophecy and perfectly remain in the will of God.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Do you believe these quotes? The Truth About Judas - Betrayer of Christ by David Wilkerson June 15, 1992

There was a point Judas fell into sin and then later betrayed Jesus. Also, look at the beginning of this thread for some great verses that show that Judas was once saved.

Fact Number One: The High Priests and Religious

But that is how God predicted it would happen. God knew Judas would betray Jesus. Stop and think a moment. I cannot betray someone unless I was faithful to them, as well.

Also, I heard Christians can't be demon possessed.

What one hears and what God's Word says are two different things.

Stop and think for a moment. All babies who die are saved, right? Jesus saves all babies. If this is so, then what happens later that separates them from the Lord? It is sin that separates them when they grow up.



...

 

[stuart lawrence]

Some are desperate to believe Judas was once saved, as it would endorse their view that YOU get to heaven because of what YOU do!

In other words. They want some of the credit!!!!

 

[stuart lawrence]

.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

No true beiever desires to take any credit for their salvation. That is a false accusation. Christians who know their Bible realize that it is ultimately Christ doing the good work within them. It is why the 24 elders cast their crowns down before Jesus. It's why Jesus says you can do nothing without me (John 15:5). But the Bible does teach that God is happy with a believer being faithful vs. not being faithful (and this is related to their being able to enter the Kingdom).

"His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord. (Matthew 25:23).

"And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 25:30).


...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Titus 1:16 says we can deny God by a lack of works.
Hebrews 12:14 says without holiness no man shall see the Lord.
Hebrews 5:9 says that Jesus is the author of eternal salvation to all those who obey Him.
Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments.
Jesus says if you will enter into life, keep the commandments.
So I really do not see how God is in approval of a doctrine that turns God's grace into a license for immorality.

God is good.
He is not evil.


...

 

[Sammy-San]

There was a point Judas fell into sin and then later betrayed Jesus. Also, look at the beginning of this thread for some great verses that show that Judas was once saved.



But that is how God predicted it would happen. God knew Judas would betray Jesus. Stop and think a moment. I cannot betray someone unless I was faithful to them, as well.



What one hears and what God's Word says are two different things.

Stop and think for a moment. All babies who die are saved, right? Jesus saves all babies. If this is so, then what happens later that separates them from the Lord? It is sin that separates them when they grow up.



...

Were the comments about satans motives with Judas true?

 

[Sammy-San]

There was a point Judas fell into sin and then later betrayed Jesus. Also, look at the beginning of this thread for some great verses that show that Judas was once saved.



But that is how God predicted it would happen. God knew Judas would betray Jesus. Stop and think a moment. I cannot betray someone unless I was faithful to them, as well.



What one hears and what God's Word says are two different things.

Stop and think for a moment. All babies who die are saved, right? Jesus saves all babies. If this is so, then what happens later that separates them from the Lord? It is sin that separates them when they grow up.



...

So Christians can be possessed?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Were the comments about satans motives with Judas true?

Please post a couple of specific verse references.


...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

So Christians can be possessed?

A Christian is only a Christian if they are abiding in Christ. If a person goes back and willing sins again, there remains no more sacrifice for sin (Unless they repent again).

But to answer your question: Yes, a person who used to be a Christian (i.e. used to abide in Christ in the past tense) can later be demon possessed. In fact 1 John 3:8 says he that commits sin is of the devil. So a person cannot be of God and also be in sin. No man cen serve two masters.

We see something similar happen with a believer under the Old Covenant. God departs from King Saul and an evil spirit then troubles him.


...

 

[Sammy-San]

A Christian is only a Christian if they are abiding in Christ. If a person goes back and willing sins again, there remains no more sacrifice for sin (Unless they repent again).

But to answer your question: Yes, a person who used to be a Christian (i.e. used to abide in Christ in the past tense) can later be demon possessed. In fact 1 John 3:8 says he that commits sin is of the devil. So a person cannot be of God and also be in sin. No man cen serve two masters.

We see something similar happen with a believer under the Old Covenant. God departs from King Saul and an evil spirit then troubles him.


...

That is oppression not possession, but I don't know for sure.

 

[Sammy-San]

A Christian is only a Christian if they are abiding in Christ. If a person goes back and willing sins again, there remains no more sacrifice for sin (Unless they repent again).

But to answer your question: Yes, a person who used to be a Christian (i.e. used to abide in Christ in the past tense) can later be demon possessed. In fact 1 John 3:8 says he that commits sin is of the devil. So a person cannot be of God and also be in sin. No man cen serve two masters.

We see something similar happen with a believer under the Old Covenant. God departs from King Saul and an evil spirit then troubles him.


...

The Truth About Judas - Betrayer of Christ by David Wilkerson June 15, 1992

1. [*]Satan first wanted to make a statement to all the principalities and powers of darkness. I believe the devil planned to use Judas' fall to justify his own fall and the fall of those angels who joined in his rebellion!
   If the devil could destroy a close disciple of Jesus - one who himself had cast out devils, healed the sick, performed miracles and walked in the fullest light of truth - then he could say to every fallen angel and demonic power: "See? God's love is flawed. His compassions do fail! It was prophesied long ago that Judas would come, and yet God did nothing to protect or save him.
   
   "God could have kept me too - He could have kept all of us from pride. But now you can clearly see that God again has failed to keep His own!"
   
   
   
   
   [*]Satan also wanted to make a statement to all the holy angels. He sought to throw darts of doubt into heaven itself to corrupt the unfallen, uncorrupted witnesses in glory.
   Don't think for a moment the devil has given up his struggle to bring down the heavens and exalt himself as God. He is the accuser of not just the brethren, but of all that is of God - including the angels!
   
   After Judas' suicide, Satan screamed to those in glory: "God couldn't save one of His very own disciples - and He didn't keep us, His created angels. what makes you think He'll keep you?
   
   "He created man, and now it is clear He can't keep man. His own kind betray him! So what hinders another rebellion among you?"
   
   We know the battle still rages, that Satan still fights the heavenly hosts. He fought the archangel Michael, who sought to bring the Word of God to Daniel. And surely today he uses every lie and diabolic strategy to try to plant doubt and rebellion in the hosts of Jehovah!
   [*]

Why would God allow Satan to take Judas away from God (knowing he would kill himself and go to hell), based on that?

 

[Ron Gurley]

POST #707: Q: "So "Christians" (TRUE Christ-Followers) can be "possessed" (by evil spirit beings)?

A1. Objection. You are assuming Judas I. was a TRUE saved BELIEVER. He was NOT!

A2: NO!

1 John 4:4 NASB)
You are from God, little children, (BELIEVERS!)
and have overcome them;(EVIL SPIRIT BEINGS)
because greater is He (God the Holy Spirit) who is IN you than he who is in the "world" (kozmos) .(devil/demons/followers)

 

[Ron Gurley]

Maybe the problem is "apostleship"?

Judas I. was never appointed an "apostle" by Jesus the Christ with the mission to spread the Gospel.

Acts 1:2
until the day when He was taken up to heaven,
after He had by (God) the Holy Spirit given orders to the (ELEVEN {11}) apostles whom He had chosen.

Acts 1:25-26
to occupy this ministry and "apostleship" from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place.” (hell!)
And they drew lots for them, and the lot fell to Matthias; and he was added to the eleven apostles.

 

[stuart lawrence]

No true beiever desires to take any credit for their salvation. That is a false accusation. Christians who know their Bible realize that it is ultimately Christ doing the good work within them. It is why the 24 elders cast their crowns down before Jesus. It's why Jesus says you can do nothing without me (John 15:5). But the Bible does teach that God is happy with a believer being faithful vs. not being faithful (and this is related to their being able to enter the Kingdom).

"His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord. (Matthew 25:23).

"And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 25:30).


...

It is easy to see those who truly in their hearts want God to have the glory in their lives.

I'm afraid you are part of a weak church( whether you attend a building or not)
As i have told you before. Reeling the letter of scripture off from your head, and making pat statements that have no bearing on the reality of your life is not a good place to be at.

 

[EmSw]

Maybe the problem is "apostleship"?

Judas I. was never appointed an "apostle" by Jesus the Christ with the mission to spread the Gospel.

Acts 1:2
until the day when He was taken up to heaven,
after He had by (God) the Holy Spirit given orders to the (ELEVEN {11}) apostles whom He had chosen.

Acts 1:25-26
to occupy this ministry and "apostleship" from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place.” (hell!)
And they drew lots for them, and the lot fell to Matthias; and he was added to the eleven apostles.

Perhaps you should read the whole story.

Matthew 10
1 And when He had called His twelve disciples to Him, He gave them power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease.
2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;
3 Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;
4 Simon the Cananite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed Him.

Luke 6
12 Now it came to pass in those days that He went out to the mountain to pray, and continued all night in prayer to God.
13 And when it was day, He called His disciples to Himself; and from them He chose twelve whom He also named apostles:

Mark 3
13 And He went up on the mountain and called to Him those He Himself wanted. And they came to Him.
14 Then He appointed twelve, that they might be with Him and that He might send them out to preach,
15 and to have power to heal sicknesses and to cast out demons:
16 Simon, to whom He gave the name Peter;
17 James the son of Zebedee and John the brother of James, to whom He gave the name Boanerges, that is, “Sons of Thunder”;
18 Andrew, Philip, Bartholomew, Matthew, Thomas, James the son of Alphaeus, Thaddaeus, Simon the Cananite;
19 and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed Him.

Yes, maybe the problem you have is apostleship. Judas was wanted, called, chosen, appointed, and sent out to preach.

Jesus also said this of the 12 apostles -

Matthew 10:40
He who receives you receives Me, and he who receives Me receives Him who sent Me.

Jesus never says this to a lost soul nor unbeliever.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Let us look at many other verses that give us undeniable proof that Judas was once saved. We find the following:

• He was a child of the bridechamber (Matthew 9:15).
• He was sent to the lost sheep of Israel. Jesus called unto Him His twelve disciples. (Matthew 10:1-13). See also Mark 6:7-13 and Luke 9:1-6.
• Jesus told His disciples that if anyone would reject them or their message from Him, they would receive severe judgment (Matthew 10:14-15).
• Judas was a sheep among wolves (Matthew 10:16).
• In Luke 12:32 Jesus says to His disciples, "Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom."
• He once heard and followed the Good Shepherd (John 10:27).
• "He that receiveth you receiveth me" (Matthew 10:40).
• He was part of Jesus' family (Matthew 12:48-50).
• Jesus said that His heavenly Father was the disciples' heavenly Father by using the terms your, thy, and our Father in relation to His disciples' relationship with His Father (Matthew 10:20; Matthew 5:16, Matthew 5:45, Matthew 5:48; Matthew 6:1, Matthew 6:4-9, Matthew 6:14-18, Matthew 6:26, Matthew 6:32; Matthew 7:11).
• Judas was given to know the mysteries of the Kingdom of heaven (Matthew 13:10-11; Hebrews 6:4-6).
• His eyes saw and his ears heard-he understood (Matthew 13:16).
• "Then they [Judas was there] that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God" (Matthew 14:33).
• Matthew 19:27-28 says, "Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, that ye [always plural in the Greek] which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel." Judas was not faithful unto the end; therefore, he forfeited the promise of a throne in heaven. Judas' fall did not negate the fact that he was promised a throne. But that promise was conditional, like all God's promises.

Source:
Judas: “Once Saved” – “Forever Lost”

 

[Bible Highlighter]

If Judas was not a loyal and trusted friend, who was a genuine follower of Him, He would not have chosen Him to preach the gospel, heal the sick, or cast out devils in the first place. Judas became a devil (John 6:70), but he was not always a devil, for Jesus asked, “How can Satan cast out Satan?” (Mark 3:23).

The Scriptures plainly teach that Judas was a genuine disciple or follower of Christ who fell from his apostleship and lost his salvation through his sin. To teach otherwise is to simply misrepresent or misunderstand the Scriptures. Jesus Himself said that the Father gave Judas to Him but that He had lost him (John 17:12). Judas chose to be a disciple (Luke 9:23; Luke 14:27), then Jesus chose him to be an apostle (Luke 6:13; John 6:70), but then Judas fell from his apostleship by his choice to transgress (Acts 1:25). Judas lost both his salvation and apostleship through sin.

As the Bible says, “He that keepeth the commandment keepeth his own soul; but he that despiseth his ways shall die” (Proverbs 19:16).

Source:
BiblicalTruthResources
(Side Note: I disagree with this website's view on those prophecies about Judas) (I believe Scripture did foretell Judas's fall, but this is simply in line with what God knew about Judas's free will choice to betray Christ).

 

[stuart lawrence]

Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform miracles?
Then I will tell them plainly: I NEVER knew you. Away from me you evildoers
Matt7:22&23

Let him who has ears to hear, hear

 

[Bible Highlighter]

God associates with a person who does righteousness. It's why He tells us to be ye holy as He is holy (1 Peter 1:16). So when God says He never knew somebody, it is by the fact that all their previous righteousness will not be remembered if they sin again.

For Ezekiel 18:24 says,

"But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die."​

Matthew 7:21-23 is in context to Matthew 7:26-27. He that does not do what Jesus says is likened unto a fool who built his house upon the sand whereby when a storm came, great was the fall of that house. Matthew 7 is not making a point about how one can sin and still be saved. Jesus says to the believer who did wonderful works to depart from Him because He worked iniquity (sin), too.

Matthew 13:41-42 says that the Son of Man (Jesus) will send forth his angels and gather out of HIS KINGDOM (any professing believer) all who offend (sin) and who do iniquity (intense sin or lawlessness) and cast them into the furnace of fire (the Lake of Fire).

So sinning believers (who think they are saved while they sin) or believers who are striving to justfy sin in some way are not going to make it.


...

 

[RDKirk]

If Judas was not a loyal and trusted friend, who was a genuine follower of Him, He would not have chosen Him to preach the gospel, heal the sick, or cast out devils in the first place. Judas became a devil (John 6:70), but he was not always a devil, for Jesus asked, “How can Satan cast out Satan?” (Mark 3:23).

The Scriptures plainly teach that Judas was a genuine disciple or follower of Christ who fell from his apostleship and lost his salvation through his sin. To teach otherwise is to simply misrepresent or misunderstand the Scriptures. Jesus Himself said that the Father gave Judas to Him but that He had lost him (John 17:12). Judas chose to be a disciple (Luke 9:23; Luke 14:27), then Jesus chose him to be an apostle (Luke 6:13; John 6:70), but then Judas fell from his apostleship by his choice to transgress (Acts 1:25). Judas lost both his salvation and apostleship through sin.

As the Bible says, “He that keepeth the commandment keepeth his own soul; but he that despiseth his ways shall die” (Proverbs 19:16).

Source:
BiblicalTruthResources
(Side Note: I disagree with this website's view on those prophecies about Judas) (I believe Scripture did foretell Judas's fall, but this is simply in line with what God knew about Judas's free will choice to betray Christ).

We don't actually know from scripture that Judas personally did any of those things. We do know from scripture that Jesus knew all along Judas was "a devil."

If God knew all along that Judas would ultimately die in his sins, then from God's eternal point of view, Judas was never "saved" as an accomplished state of being.