vinsight4u said in post #130:
If you see the church as the ones shown in Philippians that is here -till the day of Christ, then 2 Thess. 2 is clear that the man of sin is revealed first.
That's right.
For the future day of the Lord (Christ) (2 Thessalonians 2:2) will begin at the Lord Jesus Christ's second coming (1 Corinthians 1:7-8; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10), which won't occur until Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, "immediately after" the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8), which is when the rapture (the gathering together) of the church will occur (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).
vinsight4u said in post #130:
. . . 2 Thess. 2 is clear that the man of sin is revealed first.
That's right.
For 2 Thessalonians 2:3 refers to when an individual man will be revealed (that is, without any remaining doubt) as being the Antichrist by his sitting (at least one time) in a future, third Jewish temple in Jerusalem and proclaiming himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36,31, Matthew 24:15). This is one of the things which have to happen sometime
before the future day of Jesus' second coming and the gathering together (rapture) of the church (2 Thessalonians 2:1-8), immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6). For at the second coming, the Antichrist will be destroyed (2 Thessalonians 2:8b, Revelation 19:20).
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vinsight4u said in post #131:
It is the nations - the virgins that sleep till they hear the cry - then they take lamps.
The ten virgins parable (Matthew 25:1-13) shows that the marriage of the church to Jesus won't occur until his second coming (Matthew 25:10), which Jesus had just finished saying won't occur until "immediately after the tribulation" (Matthew 24:29-31), just as Revelation 19:7 shows that the marriage won't occur until after the (never fulfilled) tribulation, shown in Revelation chapters 6 to 18. The parable's extra oil (Matthew 25:4,9b) could represent the continued good works of Christians, by which they will be able to pass the judgment of the church by Jesus (Matthew 25:19-30, Romans 2:6-8) and enter the marriage of the church to Jesus at his second coming (Matthew 25:10, Revelation 19:7-21).
The marriage supper (Revelation 19:9) won't have yet begun by the time of Revelation 19, which won't begin until after the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (cf. Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8). For regarding the church, the marriage supper will be a literal feast in the earthly Jerusalem after the resurrection and marriage of the church at Jesus' second coming (Isaiah 25:6-9; 1 Corinthians 15:54, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-54). While the church will enjoy a feast "of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined" (Isaiah 25:6), the birds will feast on the corpses of the world's armies defeated by Jesus' at his second coming (Revelation 19:17-21).
Also, regarding the ten virgins parable, in Matthew 25:6 "midnight" could represent mid-tribulation, when the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) could be set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of a third Jewish temple in Jerusalem (Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31). So when it says "at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh" (Matthew 25:6), this could mean that at the mid-tribulation point when the abomination of desolation is set up, the church will be given the knowledge of the date (as in the year, month, and day) of Jesus' second coming. This date could be the 1,335th day after the abomination of desolation is set up (Daniel 12:11-12, cf. Revelation 16:15).
vinsight4u said in post #131:
The goats do not get left for the trib.
That's right.
Also, regarding the sheep and goat judgment, note that Matthew 25:31 doesn't mean that Matthew 25:32-46 (just as 2 Peter 3:10a doesn't mean that 2 Peter 3:10b) will happen immediately at Jesus' second coming, only that it will happen sometime subsequent to his second coming, at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11-15), after the future millennium and subsequent events (Revelation 20:7-15).
Matthew 25:32-46 refers to when the "nations" will be finally-judged by their works at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:12-13), whereas at Jesus' second coming, he will finally-judge only those in the church (Psalms 50:3-5, cf. Mark 13:27; Matthew 25:19-30). Also, Matthew 25:41,46 refers to when the unsaved of all times, whether Jews or Gentiles, will be sent into the everlasting suffering of the lake of fire and brimstone at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:15), whereas at the second coming, only the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") and his False Prophet will be cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 19:20). The saved "sheep" at the sheep/goat judgment will include those, whether Jews or Gentiles, who will become Christians during the millennium (Isaiah 66:19-21). Matthew 25:34 refers to obedient Christians inheriting the kingdom of God the Father on the new earth in New Jerusalem, the Father's house (Revelation 21:1-7, John 14:2).
vinsight4u said in post #131:
At the end of Matthew 24, just like in Isaiah 66 -the time switched to the heaven and earth passing away and it was time for the new earth.
Matthew 24:35 refers to the eternal nature of Jesus' Word (cf. 1 Peter 1:24-25), not to the timing of the subsequent verses. For Matthew 24:36 is referring to the timing of Jesus' second coming in Matthew 24:37-51, as in Matthew 24:30, Matthew 24:27, and Matthew 24:3, and as in Matthew 25:10, Matthew 25:13, Matthew 25:19, and Matthew 25:31. This is the same (never fulfilled) second coming as shown in Revelation 19:7 to 20:3.
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vinsight4u said in post #133:
Jeremiah 29:10 has already come to pass. as you said "in ancient times"
Isaiah 13:1
"The burden of Babylon..."
Isaiah 13:22
"...and her time is near to come..."
Do you mean Isaiah 13 also came to pass in ancient times?
If so, note that the city of Babylon referred to in Isaiah 13 (verses 1,19) isn't the ancient city of Babylon, just as it isn't the symbolic (and worldwide) "Babylon" of Revelation. Instead, it's only the present-day, literal city of Babylon (in Iraq), which the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") will transform into his world capital during the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24.
For in Isaiah 13:3, the "sanctified ones" who "rejoice in [YHWH's] highness" are the obedient people in the church in Revelation 19:7-8, after the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. They will be, in Isaiah 13:4-5, the "host of the battle" from "heaven", when they physically descend from the sky (the first heaven) with Jesus as he wages war against the world's armies at his second coming (Revelation 19:14-21). So in Isaiah 13:6,9, the "day of the Lord" is the same as the future, second-coming day of the Lord (1 Corinthians 1:7-8; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10).
Isaiah 13:10,13 refers to the same, future, second-coming time as Matthew 24:29-31 and Revelation 19:15.
Isaiah 13:11 refers to Jesus' defeat of the world's armies at his second coming (Revelation 19:19-21, Zechariah 14:3-21).
Isaiah 13:16 refers not to what Jesus or the church will do, but to what some unsaved "Medes" (Isaiah 13:17-18) will do to the inhabitants of the city of Babylon at the time of Jesus' second coming. By "Medes" is meant the native inhabitants of that part of the Middle East which in ancient times was called "Media" and is now in northwestern Iran. (The Kurds who now live there, and in surrounding areas, even claim to be the descendants of the ancient Medes.)
In Isaiah 13:17, the "Medes" aren't the ancient Medes who conquered the ancient city of Babylon (Daniel 5:28,31). For the ancient Medes didn't make the ancient city of Babylon uninhabited (Isaiah 13:19-22) when they defeated it, but instead kept it as a thriving city which continued on for centuries.
In Isaiah 13:19-22, the total and eternal destruction of the city of Babylon has never been fulfilled. For Saddam Hussein rebuilt the city of Babylon (using bricks he inscribed with "built by Saddam Hussein, son of Nebuchadnezzar"). And after his defeat, U.S. forces built a military base in Babylon. And in the future, the Antichrist will transform the city of Babylon into his world capital. Isaiah 13:19-22 won't be fulfilled until this city is destroyed at Jesus Christ's second coming.