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Featured How do you view Daniel 2

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by PROPHECYKID, Feb 18, 2017.

  1. 5thKingdom

    5thKingdom Newbie

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    BTW... the wheat and tares are BOTH part of the "Kingdom of Heaven".
    The Bible separates the world into THREE (3) GROUPS
    (a) the saved "wheat/sheep" in the "Kingdom of Heaven" and
    (b) the unsaved "tares/goats" in the "Kingdom of Heaven" and
    (c) the unsaved souls OUTSIDE of the "Kingdom of Heaven"... such as
    Jews, Moslems, Buddhists, Hindus, Atheists, Humanists, Pagans, etc, etc,
    --------
    Again... you are not reading Matthew 13 carefully if you do not understand that the "wheat and tares"
    are both PART of the "Kingdom of Heaven".
    --------
    In fact, it was always PART of the Gospel that the "Kingdom of Heaven" (Christian Kingdom) would be
    infiltrated by unsaved "tares" that LOOK very much like the "wheat". And the "leaven" of these "tares"
    would corrupt the churches... and eventually the entire Kingdom. And the PROCESS of these "false prophets"
    corrupting the churches began while the Apostles were preaching. Read Revelation chapters 2 & 3 to see
    the extent of this corruption before the end of the first century.
    --------


    The New Testament Christian Kingdom (the Christian Church) was the THIRD "Kingdom of Heaven" on earth
    and it began when the Holy Spirit was "TAKEN" from the (2nd) Jewish Kingdom and it was "GIVEN" to the Saints
    following the Lord Jesus Christ - as He established the (3rd) Christian "Kingdom of Heaven". From that point in time
    the Jewish Kingdom would never produce another "child of God". At that point in time, all living Saints were "harvested"
    into the (3rd) Christian "Kingdom of Heaven"... and all the people left-behind in the Jewish Kingdom were forsaken by God,
    as salvation was only available through the Atonement of the Lord Jesus Christ, and within the Christian "Kingdom of Heaven".

    Mat 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, the KINGDOM OF GOD shall be TAKEN from you [the Jewish Kingdom],
    and GIVEN to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof [the Christian Kingdom].

    In Matthew 13 the Lord Jesus reveals several different perspectives about the (3rd) New Testament "Kingdom of Heaven".
    The Lord reveals [v3-8] the "Kingdom of Heaven" (Christian Kingdom) is like a man sowing seed, and the Christian Gospel
    is called [v19] the "Word of the Kingdom". The Lord reveals [v24-30] the "Kingdom of Heaven" (Christian Kingdom) includes
    both saved "wheat" (sown by Christ), and unsaved "tares" (sown by Satan). Moreover, these wheat and tares look very similar,
    and they are allowed to grow together - until they are separated during the "Final Harvest", which occurs at the "end-of-the-age".

    The Lord reveals [v47-50] the "Kingdom of Heaven" (Christian Kingdom) is like casting a net to gather both good fish ("wheat")
    and bad fish ("tares"), which are later separated during the "Final Harvest". And finally, the Lord reveals [v52] that the GOSPEL
    of the Christian "Kingdom of Heaven" includes the Saints ("wheat") understanding the Harmony of Scripture between mysteries
    which were revealed during the (2nd) Old Testament Kingdom (represented as "old treasure") and mysteries now being revealed
    during the "testimony" of the Great Commission, during the (3rd) New Testament Kingdom (represented as "new treasure").

    (1) The "Kingdom of Heaven" is an earthly Kingdom
    (2) The sower of good seed represents the Lord Jesus Christ
    (3) The sower of bad seed represents Satan, the King of Babylon
    (4) The "Word of the Kingdom" (the seed) is the Gospel of the New Testament
    (5) The "field" represents the world, as the Gospel goes forth to both Jew and Gentile
    (6) The "fruit" of the field (both wheat and tares) represents the (3rd) "Kingdom of Heaven"
    (7) The "Word of the Kingdom" gathers good fish and bad fish during the (3rd) Christian Kingdom
    (8) The (saved) "wheat" and the (unsaved) "tares" LOOK similar, and grow together until the end-of-the-age
    (9) At the end-of-the-age, the "wheat and tares" (the good fish and bad fish) are separated - during the "Final Harvest"


    In Matthew 13 the Lord explains the THIRD "Kingdom of Heaven" (the Christian Kingdom -or- New Testament Church)
    is an earthly Kingdom consisting of both (saved) "wheat" and (unsaved) "tares". This Biblical Truth also harmonizes with
    the (2nd) Jewish Kingdom containing both saved "wheat" and unsaved "tares" within the "Kingdom" of national Israel and
    the (4th) Great Tribulation Kingdom containing both saved "wheat" (shown as "Wise Virgins" and "Toes/Kings" of IRON),
    and unsaved "tares" (shown as "Foolish Virgins" and "Toes/Kings" of CLAY) during the Fourth and Last Kingdom on earth.

    -------------------------------------------------------------


    Note: This is an important PART of the Gospel that most Biblical "scholars" either overlook, or just don’t understand:
    Whenever the Bible speaks of the (3rd) Christian "Kingdom of Heaven", or the Christian "church", its talking about either
    (a) the people who are saved "wheat/sheep" within the Kingdom or (b) the people who are unsaved "tares/goats" in the Kingdom
    or (c) both the "wheat and tares" within the Christian "Kingdom of Heaven". Unless and until we first understand WHO is included
    within the Christian "Kingdom of Heaven" we cannot pretend to understand any reality about the Christian Church throughout history,
    nor can we correctly “interpret” the Biblical meaning of any passage of Scripture related to the New Testament church.

    In other words, to correctly understand the meaning of any passage of Scripture related to the (3rd) Christian "Kingdom of Heaven",
    or any passage of Scripture related to the New Testament church, we must FIRST discern whether the context of that Scripture
    is focused on (a) the saved "wheat" in the Kingdom (b) the unsaved "tares" in the Kingdom or (c) both the "wheat and tares".
    This is a First Principle in finding “Harmony of Scripture”… which is the only measure of Biblical Truth.


    ............
     
  2. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    Regarding the abomination of desolation, Daniel 11:31 was typically fulfilled by the abomination of desolation in 1 Maccabees 1:54, which occurred in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the second Jewish temple in Jerusalem in the time of Antiochus IV. But per Jesus Christ's statement in Matthew 24:15, the Church will see the abomination of desolation in Daniel 11:31 fulfilled (antitypically) in the future, when the Church will see the abomination of desolation stand in the holy place (of a third Jewish temple in Jerusalem). This future abomination of desolation could be a standing, android image of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:15) which his followers ("they") will put in the holy place of the temple (Daniel 11:31) to be worshipped (Revelation 13:15), after they have stopped the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices which the ultra-Orthodox Jews will have restarted in front of the temple (Daniel 11:31). This image will pollute the holy place of the temple (Daniel 11:31).

    The Antichrist will then fulfill Daniel 11:36 and 2 Thessalonians 2:4 by sitting himself (at least one time) in the temple and proclaiming himself God. By the power of Satan (the dragon, Revelation 12:9), the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") will then rule and be worshipped by all the nations of the earth for 3.5 literal years (Revelation 13:4-18), and will physically overcome Biblical Christians (not in hiding) in every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

    Also, from the day on which (antitypically) "the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be 1,290 days. Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the 1,335 days" (Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation 16:15). Also, because the Antichrist will fulfill Daniel 11:31 antitypically (Matthew 24:15) and will fulfill Daniel 11:36 for the first (and only) time, then he will also fulfill all of Daniel 11:21-45 (the first part of it antitypically, and the rest for the first and only time) when he arises on the world stage, for that passage refers to the career of the same man. And since the Antichrist will fulfill all of Daniel 11:21-45 when he arises on the world stage, then just preceding his arising on the world stage, Daniel 11:13-19 could be fulfilled antitypically by a future, Iraqi Baathist General completely defeating and occupying Israel and Egypt with a huge Iraqi Army (Daniel 11:15-17; in verse 17 the original Hebrew word translated as "daughter" is "bath").

    Note that the Gog/Magog invasion of Israel (Ezekiel chapters 38-39) won't occur until after the future Millennium (Revelation 20:7-10), when there will be no defensive walls or fear of attack in Israel whatsoever (Ezekiel 38:11). This is the exact opposite of today's situation, when Israel is filled with very high defensive walls and is in constant fear of attack. At the beginning of the Millennium, all present-day weapons of war throughout the world will be destroyed and they won't be allowed to be remade during the Millennium (Micah 4:3-4). That's why after the Millennium, the Gog/Magog armies will employ only rudimentary, wooden weapons like bows and arrows, spears, shields, and clubs (Ezekiel 39:9), which, after the defeat of the Gog/Magog armies, will be able to be used as convenient firewood by the people living in Israel at that time, instead of them having to go out and collect or cut down firewood from the forest (Ezekiel 39:10).

    The Gog in Revelation 20:8 is the same as in Ezekiel chapters 38-39: an individual human whose personal name is "Gog" (Ezekiel 38:3). He will be the chief leader of a future country which will form somewhere north of Israel (Ezekiel 39:2, Ezekiel 38:15), and which will be called "Magog" (Ezekiel 38:2). It will include at least two major cities and/or tribes which will be called "Meshech" and "Tubal" (Ezekiel 38:2). This country could come into existence during the Millennium. Gog could be born near the end of the Millennium, and he will be killed and buried at the end of the Gog/Magog event (Ezekiel 39:11).

    Both accounts of the event show the Gog/Magog armies will ultimately be completely defeated by miraculous fire from heaven (Ezekiel 38:22, Revelation 20:9). Also, whereas the Great White Throne Judgment (Revelation 20:11-15) will occur subsequent to the Gog/Magog event (Revelation 20:7-15), nothing requires (as is sometimes claimed) that the Great White Throne Judgment has to happen immediately after that event. For there will be at least seven years (Ezekiel 39:9b) between the end of that event and the Great White Throne Judgment.

    Also, the Gog/Magog attack won't have to (as is sometimes claimed) involve only the nations listed in Ezekiel chapters 38-39. Those nations could be just a sampling. For the "nations" (ethnos), or peoples, who will be involved in the Gog/Magog attack will come from all over the earth (Revelation 20:8). They will still be physically part of Jesus Christ's worldwide Kingdom, still legally under His rule, just as they had been during the preceding Millennium (Psalms 72:8-11, Psalms 66:3, Psalms 2). But after the Millennium, they will be deceived by Satan into committing the attack (Revelation 20:7-10).

    Also, while the Gog/Magog attack on Israel won't occur until after the future Millennium (Revelation 20:7-10, Ezekiel chapters 38-39), Israel could suffer a different attack before the Millennium, at the start of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, which attack could result in Israel's total defeat and occupation (Daniel 11:15-17).

    Also, the city of Jerusalem could be attacked and totally defeated in the future at least three times before the Millennium: once near the start of the future Tribulation (Daniel 11:22), then again mid-tribulation (Daniel 11:31), and then at the Tribulation's end (Daniel 11:45), right before Jesus Christ's Second Coming and the start of the Millennium (Zechariah 14:2-21).
     
  3. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    Yes.

    For note that Revelation 19:20 refers to the throwing of only two individual people, the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") and his False Prophet, into the lake of fire at Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming, which will occur over 1,000 before the Great White Throne Judgment (Revelation 20:7-15). This could be done as a clear sign to everyone the Antichrist and his False Prophet will never be allowed to rise up and work evil on the earth again, unlike Satan, who will only be bound in the bottomless pit at Jesus' Second Coming (Revelation 20:1-3), and then later allowed to rise up and work evil on the earth again after the Millennium (Revelation 20:7-10).

    Also, Luke 17:27,29 and Matthew 24:39 don't mean (as is sometimes claimed) that all non-Christians will be killed by Jesus at His future, Second Coming. For Luke 17:34-36 and Matthew 24:40-41 go on to show some non-Christians will be left alive at that time (Zechariah 14:16-19). So in Luke 17:26-30 and Matthew 24:37-39, the point of the comparison isn't that all non-Christians will be killed by Jesus at His Second Coming, but that none of them will be expecting to be killed, but will be eating and drinking without worry right up to the day of the Second Coming.

    Those "left" where they are at Jesus' Second Coming (Luke 17:34-36, Matthew 24:40-41) will include non-Christians who will be forced to come up annually to worship the returned Jesus in Jerusalem during the future Millennium (Zechariah 14:16-19). These non-Christians will have to be ruled with a rod of iron by Jesus and the physically resurrected Church during the Millennium (Revelation 2:26-29, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 20:4-6, Psalms 2, Psalms 66:3, Psalms 72:8-11). And their descendants will be deceived by Satan after the Millennium into committing the Gog/Magog rebellion (Revelation 20:7-10, Ezekiel chapters 38-39).

    Jesus' Second Coming will be like "the days of Noah" (Matthew 24:37) and "the days of Lot" (Luke 17:28,30) in that just as Noah went into the ark before the temporal (not the eternal) judgment of the Flood, and Lot went out from Sodom before its temporal (not its eternal) judgment (cf. Ezekiel 16:53-56), so the Church will be raptured into the sky at the Second Coming (Matthew 24:30-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17, Revelation 19:7) before Jesus begins the Second-Coming, temporal (not the eternal) judgment of the non-Christian world alive at that time (Revelation 19:11 to 20:3, Luke 17:26-30, Matthew 24:37-39).

    Regarding the final judgment of non-Christians: At Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming, only the Church will be physically resurrected and finally-judged (1 Corinthians 15:21-23, Revelation 20:5; Psalms 50:3-5, cf. Mark 13:27; Matthew 25:19-30; 2 Corinthians 5:10, Luke 12:45-48). The obedient part of the Church, including those in the Church who had been beheaded by the future Antichrist, will then reign on the earth with Jesus for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 66:3-4, Psalms 72:8-11, Zechariah 14:3-21). Only sometime after the 1,000 years and the subsequent Gog/Magog rebellion (Revelation 20:7-10, Ezekiel chapters 38-39) will the rest of the dead (of all times) be physically resurrected (Revelation 20:5) and finally-judged at the Great White Throne Judgment (Revelation 20:11-15).
     
  4. 5thKingdom

    5thKingdom Newbie

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    Daniel's "Abomination of Desolation" is Satan RULING over the Last Saints (through the actions of his Anti-Christ)

    during the Fourth “Kingdom of Heaven” on earth. (aka the Revelations Beast/the Great Tribulation/Satan’s Little Season).

    The following passages show the “Little Horn” or “False ProphetRULING over the “wheat and tares” of the Fourth Beast.

    Although the “wheat and tares” are called by many different names, such as: the “Kingdom”, and the “Holy Place” and

    the “Temple of God”, and the “Host and Stars”, and the “Mighty and Holy People”, and the “Sanctuary and Host

    and the “Holy People”. The Anti-Christ RULING over the “wheat and tares” of the Fourth Beast is shown as:



    (1) The “Abomination” of the Anti-Christ “standing” (ruling) in the “Holy Place” [Mat 24]

    (2) The “Man of Sin” when he is revealed “sitting” (ruling) in the “Temple of God” [2Th2]


    The first two examples show the Anti-Christ RULING during the (4th) Great Tribulation Kingdom.

    The next three examples also show the Anti-Christ RULING during the same period – the Revelations Beast.

    We now have five (5) examples of the Anti-Christ RULING over the “wheat and tares” during Daniel’s Fourth Beast.


    (3) The “Ten Kings” that “agree to give their Kingdom unto the Beast” [Rev 17]

    (4) The “Ten Horns” that “give their power and strength unto the Beast” [Rev 17]

    (5) The tormenting “Locusts” who are “ruled” by a King named Apollyon [Rev 9]


    However, the EVENT known as Daniel’s Abomination of Desolation is shown in many other passages of Scripture.

    Below is a partial list of some passages showing Daniel’s Abomination RULING over Daniel’s Fourth Kingdom.

    You cannot pretend to have an “informed opinion” on Daniel’s AOD unless all of these verses are harmonized.



    (6) The “Horns” that were “plucked up” by the Anti-Christ [Dan 7]

    (7) The “Host and Stars” that are “cast down” by the Anti-Christ. [Dan 8]

    (8) The “Kingdom” which the Anti-Christ “obtains with flatteries” [Dan 11]

    (9) The “Kingdom” that is “overflown” and “broken” by the Anti-Christ [Dan 11]

    (10) The “Mighty and Holy People” who are “destroyed” by the Anti-Christ [Dan 8]

    (11) The “Sanctuary and Host” that are “trodden under foot” by the Anti-Christ [Dan 8]

    (12) The “Woman” which is hidden from the face of the “serpent” for 3.5 “times” [Rev 12]

    (13) The “Holy People” whose “power is scattered” by the Anti-Christ for 3.5 “times” [Dan 12]

    (14) The “Kings” that are “given into his hand” (into the Anti-Christ’s hand) for 3.5 “times” [Dan 7]

    (15) The “Witnesses” which are first “overcome” and then are “killed” by Satan for 3.5 “days” [Rev 11]

    (16) The “Holy City” which the Anti-Christ “treads under foot” for Forty-two months / 3.5 years [Rev 11]

    (17) The “Arms” that “shall stand on his part” (stand with the Anti-Christ) and “pollute the Sanctuary” [Dan 11]

    (18) The “Ten Virgins” who “went forth” preaching the Gospel of the Anti-Christ during the Fourth Kingdom [Mat 25]

    (19) The “Sanctuary” being “polluted” by the Anti-Christ during Daniel’s Fourth “Kingdom of Heaven” [Dan 11]



    While the people alive during Daniel’s Fourth Kingdom are shown [Mat 25] as the “ten Virgins” that “went forth

    (into the Great Tribulation “Kingdom of Heaven”)… and they are shown [Dan 7] as the “ten Kings” and “ten Horns

    (that were “given into the hand” of the Anti-Christ)… and they are shown [Rev 17] as the “ten Kings” and the “ten Horns

    (that “agreed to give their Kingdom to the Beast”), the Bible contains (literally) DOZENS of other passages talking about

    these same people and every one of the passages must be harmonized before we can pretend to have more than partial-truth.


    You cannot even pretend to have found BIBLICAL TRUTH about a subject unless you can harmonize ALL SCRIPTURES

    that are related to that subject. In the case of the people living on earth during the reign of the Anti-Christ (the Fourth Beast),

    you must be able to harmonize ALL passages related to those people – regardless of the names they are called in that passage.

    The doctrine of “harmony of Scripture” does not mean harmony of select passages… it means harmony of all related passages.




    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     
  5. 5thKingdom

    5thKingdom Newbie

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  6. 5thKingdom

    5thKingdom Newbie

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    Of course everything you said is completely wrong.

    (1) First... The Bible PROMISES the truth about Daniel's prophecies would not be "unsealed"
    until the "time-of-the-end" or the "Season and Time" on earth AFTER the destruction
    of Daniel's Fourth Beast. You version (above) has been around a long time so that alone
    shows it cannot be correct.

    (2) Secondly... you could not possibly offer an "informed opinion" when you do not even understand
    that the "Millennial Kingdom" was the (3rd) Christian "Kingdom of Heaven". Saints have known from
    the beginning that the 1000 years which Satan is "bound" is the Christian "Kingdom of Heaven".
    This has come to be known as the "A-Millennial" perspective and was taught by most Reformers.

    Remember... the "Little Horn" of Daniel's prophecies arises during the FOURTH KINGDOM/BEAST.
    If you do not understand the NAME of Daniel's Four Kingdoms you cannot offer an informed opinion
    on event occurring during that Fourth Kingdom... such as the Abomination.

    Again, the Abomination occurs during the FOURTH Kingdom.... not the Second Kingdom.

    The FIRST "Kingdom of Heaven" was the Pre-Flood Kingdom consisting of all the Saints
    from Adam to Noah. When that kingdom was finished all living Saints were "harvested"
    (on Noah's Ark) into the Second Kingdom.

    The SECOND "Kingdom of Heaven" (mentioned in Matthew 22:2)
    was the (2nd) Jewish Kingdom consisting of all the "wheat and tares" living in the
    Kingdom of Israel. When that kingdom was finished all living Saints were "harvested"
    into the Third Kingdom when they followed Jesus and His Disciples.

    The THIRD "Kingdom of Heaven" (mentioned in Matthew 13)
    is the (3rd) Christian Kingdom consisting of all the "wheat and tare" living during the
    Great Commission or the Millennial Kingdom. When this Kingdom was finished all the
    living Saints were "harvested" into the Fourth Kingdom when they were "overcome"
    by the "little horn" or the "false prophet".... the man commonly known as the Anti-Christ.

    The FOURTH "Kingdom of Heaven" (mentioned in Matthew 25:1)
    is the (4th) Great Tribulation Kingdom... also shown as Daniel's Fourth Beast and the Revelation Beast
    and the Great Tribulation and the Reign of the Anti-Christ and Satan's "Little Season". When this Kingdom
    is finished there is a "Season and Time" on earth [Daniel 7:11-12] when the Last Saints preach Daniel's
    "unsealed" mysteries and the fulfillment of Great Tribulation prophecies... as the Seventh Trumpet
    "begins to sound".

    The FIFTH "Kingdom of Heaven" (mentioned in Matthew 5, 7, 8 and 19)
    is the (5th) Eternal Kingdom established when the Lord Returns at the Seventh Trumpet.

    In any case.... you do not understand the First Resurrection was when we are "born again"
    and you don't understand the Millennial Kingdom was the Church Age and you don't understand
    any of Daniel's prophecies (as they were NOT fulfilled until the FOURTH Beast).

    Your explanation is PROVEN wrong because it contradicts Scripture in so many respects....
    and it is an OLD theory which contradicts the fact that the BIBLE PROMISED the truth about
    Daniel's prophecies would remain "sealed" (to all Saints) until AFTER the Fourth Kingdom [Dan 12:8-10]

    Either the Bible is wrong... and the truth about Daniel's prophecies would NOT remain "sealed" until
    the "time-of-the-end" or the "Season and Time" after Daniel's Fourth Beast.... or you are wrong with
    your OLD theory. I am betting that the Bible is NOT wrong - that you are wrong.

    www.5thKingdomofHeaven.com



    .
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2017
  7. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    The Antichrist will fulfill 2 Thessalonians 2:4 after he by force takes control of a future, third Jewish temple in Jerusalem, stops the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices which the ultra-Orthodox Jews will have restarted in front of it, and has the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the temple (Daniel 11:31,36, Matthew 24:15).

    The Antichrist could then make quite a show of his sitting himself in the temple and declaring himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36,31). In a television and internet spectacle which will be seen live by the world, he could first be shown entering the temple's most holy place in magnificent golden robes. He could then step up to the Ark of the Covenant (which could have been discovered, and placed in the temple by the Jews) and lift the Mercy Seat off the Ark, showing it to be empty. He could then look into the camera and say: "Where's YHWH? He's not here! He's a distant fraud! His power on this earth is as hollow as this empty Ark!" (The Antichrist will utterly revile YHWH: Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36.)

    Then the Antichrist could raise the Mercy Seat high above his head only to suddenly smash it down violently to the ground, breaking it into pieces. The piped-in sound of crowds roaring with approval could then be heard in the background. Then the Antichrist could place his hands on the Ark and stare into the camera: "WE can do better than this". He could then knock over the Ark and stamp it with his foot, bashing in its side. Two of the Antichrist's followers in robes could then quickly come in and clear away the rubble of the Mercy Seat and the Ark, while four strong men in robes carry into the temple's most holy place a magnificent golden throne and place it right where the Ark had been before. The men could then bow down and motion with their arms for the Antichrist to sit on the throne. He could then grandly take his seat upon it.

    Glorious symphonic music could then swell as the sound of crowds roaring with approval increases. Then the Antichrist's False Prophet (Revelation 19:20) (who could be an apostate pope) could enter the temple's most holy place and approach the Antichrist carrying a majestic golden crown encrusted with large diamonds and all kinds of precious stones. The Antichrist could take the crown from the pope's outstretched hands. And as the Antichrist is placing the crown on his own head, a camera could slowly zoom in on his face as he says in a deep voice: "I AM THAT I AM. I AM YOUR GOD. WORSHIP ME, ALL YE NATIONS OF THE EARTH!"

    (Compare Revelation 13:8, Daniel 11:36; 2 Thessalonians 2:4)

    The weird locust-like beings in Revelation 9:7-10, and the subsequent army of 200 million weird horse-like beings in Revelation 9:16-19, could both be literal, and could both be seen by the world as "aliens", or "demons", when in fact they could both be animal species which evolved or were miraculously created (at different times) on this planet millions of years ago. The weird locust-like beings are currently living, or are in some state of extended hibernation, in the bottomless pit (Revelation 9:2-3,11), which may have a physical manifestation as a deep underground cavern. The top of this cavern could be deep under the city of Abadan (in Iran), just as the bottomless pit is under the angel Abaddon (Revelation 9:11). The weird locust-like beings will swarm up from the bottomless pit to torment mankind with excruciating stings for five months (Revelation 9:2-10). They won't kill anyone, but they will make those they sting want to die, the pain will be so bad (Revelation 9:5-6). They will hurt people who don't have a seal of God on their forehead (Revelation 9:4, cf. Revelation 7:3-4).

    The world could see these locust-like beings as aliens who had lain dormant in deep underground caverns (like in the X-Files). The locust-like beings will be shaped like horses prepared for battle (Revelation 9:7). They will have heads on which they will have as it were crowns like gold (Revelation 9:7b). They will have faces as the faces of men (Revelation 9:7c), hair as the hair of women (Revelation 9:8), teeth as the teeth of lions (Revelation 9:8b), and breastplates as it were breastplates of iron (Revelation 9:9). They will have wings, the sound of which will be as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle (Revelation 9:9b). And they will have tails like unto scorpions (Revelation 9:10), and stingers in their tails (Revelation 9:10b).

    Regarding the subsequent, weird horse-like beings (Revelation 9:16-19), because they will have to come from somewhere, and it could be difficult to keep 200 million of them hidden on the earth, they could currently be living, or be in some state of extended hibernation, in hidden underground bases somewhere away from this planet, such as on the far side of this planet's moon, and/or on the next planet out from the sun (they could even be a source of the mysterious methane emissions which have been detected in places emanating from beneath the fourth planet's surface).

    The 200 million literal, weird horse-like beings of the sixth trumpet (Revelation 9:16-19) haven't come upon the earth yet (as is sometimes claimed), because a third of mankind hasn't been killed by them yet (Revelation 9:18).
     
  8. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    Note that there are at least eight Biblical reasons to read the 1,000 years, the Millennium, of Revelation 20:2-6 as not beginning until after Jesus Christ's (still unfulfilled) Second Coming in Revelation 19:7-21.

    First, this is in accord with how the rest of Revelation chapters 6 to 22 are in chronological order, insofar as the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 will begin with the events of the second through sixth seals, occurring in the order shown in Revelation 6:3-14. After the events of the sixth seal, Revelation 7 will occur. Then the seventh seal will be unsealed, and out of it will come the Tribulation's seven trumpets (Revelation 8:1-6). Then the events of the first six trumpets in Revelation 8:7 to Revelation 9:21 will occur in the order shown there. Then Revelation 10 will occur. Then the literal 3.5 years of the Antichrist's worldwide reign will occur, which time period is shown from four different angles in Revelation chapters 11 to 14 (Revelation 11:2b-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5,7, Revelation 14:9-13).

    Then the seventh trumpet will sound, announcing the legal end of the Antichrist's reign (Revelation 11:15). Out of the seventh trumpet's heavenly-temple opening will come the seven plagues of the seven vials (Revelation 11:19, Revelation 15:5 to 16:1), the Tribulation's final stage. Then the events of the seven vials will occur in the order shown in Revelation 16. Jesus Christ's Second Coming will occur right after the seventh and last vial (Revelation 16:17,19, Revelation 19:2-21), and He will rapture and marry the Church at that time (Revelation 19:7). Then He will defeat the world's armies (Revelation 19:11 to 20:3) and reign on the earth with the physically resurrected Church for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29; 1 Corinthians 15:51-53). Then the events of Revelation 20:7 to Revelation 22:5 will occur in the order shown there.

    -

    Second, the 1,000 years in Revelation 20:2-6 are when Satan will be literally bound with a chain, and cast into and locked within the literal bottomless pit, while currently he's walking about freely on the earth seeking whom he may devour (1 Peter 5:8). So the 1,000 years can't have started yet. But their beginning after Jesus' Second Coming makes perfect sense (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

    Third, during the 1,000 years, Satan won't be able to deceive the world (Revelation 20:3), while currently he is able to deceive the world (2 Corinthians 4:4; 2 Corinthians 11:3,14-15; 2 Thessalonians 2:9-10, Revelation 12:9, Revelation 13:14, Revelation 19:20, Revelation 20:10). So the 1,000 years can't have started yet.

    Fourth, the defeat of Satan in Revelation 20:1-3 is in chronological accord with the immediately preceding defeat of the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast"), and the False Prophet, and the world's armies, at Jesus' Second Coming (Revelation 19:19-21). Indeed, there's no chapter break between Revelation 19 and Revelation 20 in the original Greek manuscripts, so Revelation 19:19 to 20:3 can be taken together as a unit, showing how every power of evil will be defeated at Jesus' Second Coming.

    Fifth, reading Revelation 20:4-6 as Jesus and the bodily resurrected Church reigning first on the present earth (not the New Earth) after His Second Coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6) matches Jesus reigning first on the present earth (not the New Earth) after His Second Coming in Zechariah 14:3-21. For Zechariah 14:8-21 can't be referring to the New Earth (of Revelation 21:1-3), because Zechariah 14:8-21 refers to a temple building in Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:20-21), whereas there will be no temple building in New Jerusalem on the New Earth (Revelation 21:22). Also, Zechariah 14:8-21 can't be referring to the New Earth, because it refers to surviving non-Christians from the present earth being forced to come up to worship the returned Jesus in Jerusalem during the Millennium (Zechariah 14:16-19), whereas by the time of the New Earth, all non-Christians from the present earth will have already been cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:15 to 21:8).

    Sixth, reading the first resurrection in Revelation 20:4-6 as the physical resurrection of the Church at Jesus' Second Coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6) matches other verses which show the physical resurrection of the Church will occur at the Second Coming (1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-54; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16).

    Seventh, reading the first resurrection in Revelation 20:4-6 as the physical resurrection of the Church at Jesus' Second Coming is in line with Revelation 20:5, which must refer in its entirety only to physical resurrection. For not every dead person is going to be figuratively resurrected in the sense of becoming saved (Revelation 20:15). And Revelation 20:5 means the rest of the dead (that is, all the non-Church dead of all times) will be resurrected in the same manner the Church will be resurrected in Revelation 20:4-6, but the rest of the dead won't be resurrected until sometime after the 1,000 years.

    Eighth, reading the first resurrection in Revelation 20:4-6 as the physical resurrection of the Church at Jesus' Second Coming is in line with Revelation 20:4, which shows the people in the first resurrection will include those in the Church who will have been beheaded by the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") for not worshipping him or his image, or receiving his mark on their hand or forehead. This refers back to the details of Revelation 13:4-18, which have never been fulfilled. So the first resurrection can't have happened yet. But its occurring at Jesus' Second Coming, when He will defeat the Antichrist, makes perfect sense (Revelation 19:20 to 20:6; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-9).
     
  9. 5thKingdom

    5thKingdom Newbie

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    As I already explained to you.... you do not have a CLUE what you are talking about.

    PROOF The Bible PROMISES that Daniel's "Little Horn" does not arise until the FOURTH KINGDOM.
    Your theory ignores that fact and, therefore is immediately proven wrong. You embarrass yourself when
    you pretend the symbolic language of Revelations is literal. There is no Seven-Headed Beast that looks like
    a dragon and has ten horns. The Beast represent KINGDOMS of (.... wait for it....) very real PEOPLE. The
    Seven Heads of the Revelation Beast are the SAME seven Heads of Daniel's Four Beasts, the "ten horns/kings"
    are the PEOPLE living in the Fourth Beast.... just as the "ten horns/kings" are the PEOPLE living in the Revelations
    Beast. But here is your biggest challenge.... the "Season and Time" that occurs AFTER the destruction of the
    Fourth Beast (aka Revelation Beast or Great Tribulation" does not fit anywhere in your scenerio.

    I don't mind debating you on ANY of these subjects... but you will need to limit your subjects to ONE AT A TIME
    because you are just compounding error on top of error.... such as the the retarded notion that everything is literal
    and that the attack of the Anti-Christ is on Jerusalem instead of the people in the FOURTH KINGDOM.

    So... I do not mind debating you on ANY of these subjects... but you must limit them to one argument at a time.
    I cannot correct ALL YOUR ERRORS in one response - nor do I care to try.

    Let us start again... You explain WHO is represented by Daniel's Four Kingdoms, and harmonize that notion
    with Daniel 7:11-12. Then we can discuss all these issues one-at-a-time.

    BTW... the notion that Satan is not "bound" in the Christian Kingdom because he still has influence
    has been discussed and debated since the Reformation and your theories were rejected by both the
    Catholics and Protestants. You should know this history (and WHY your theories were rejected) before
    you put forth notions that have already been recognized as heresy.

    Again... I can see that you take prophecy seriously... so I am willing to discuss it with you but you must START
    at the starting point... and that is these EVENTS all occur during Daniel's FOURTH BEAST and they end with the
    destruction of that Beast and then there is a "Season and Time" on earth before the "rest of the Beasts" are
    destroyed [Dan 7:11-12].

    Bottom Line: If you cannot harmonize Daniel 7:11-12 into your theories you are already proven wrong.
    So I challenge you to take this one step at a time.... beginning with you NAMING each of Daniel's Four Beasts
    and NAMING the "ten horns/kings".... and EXPLAINING Daniel 7:11-12.

    Those issues will demonstrate that you do not have a CLUE what you are talking about.


    .
     
  10. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    Note that the book of Revelation is almost entirely literal, for it's unsealed (Revelation 22:10), meaning it shouldn't be difficult for Christians of any time to understand it if they simply read it as it's written: chronologically and almost-entirely literally. The few parts of it that are symbolic are almost always explained afterward (e.g. Revelation 1:20, Revelation 17:9-12). And Revelation's few symbols not explained afterward (e.g. Revelation 13:2) are usually explained elsewhere in the Bible (e.g. Daniel 7:4-7,17).

    Just as Jesus Christ's Second Coming in Revelation 19:7 to 20:3 will be fulfilled almost entirely literally, so the events of the just-preceding Tribulation in Revelation chapters 6 to 18 will be fulfilled almost entirely literally. Also, the Millennium in Revelation 20:4-6 will be literal, and will begin right after Jesus' Second Coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Zechariah 14:3-21), when He will reign on the earth with the physically resurrected Church for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 66:3-4, Psalms 72:8-11). After that, the events of Revelation 20:7 to 22:5 will occur literally.

    Note that the beast in its empire aspect (Revelation 13:1-2, Revelation 17:3) is a different entity than the dragon, Satan (Revelation 12:3,9). For the beast and the dragon are shown to be separate in Revelation 13:2,4, Revelation 16:13, and Revelation 19:20 to 20:3. Also, Satan has his crowns on his seven heads (Revelation 12:3,9), while the beast has its crowns on its 10 horns (Revelation 13:1).

    In Revelation 12:3, the seven heads are Satan's literal heads in his true, serpentine-dragon form (Revelation 12:9), while the seven heads of the symbolic leopard-like beast in Revelation 13:1-2 and Revelation 17:3 are the symbolic heads of the kingdom of Satan as he has made it in his seven-headed image down through the ages, during seven consecutive empires (Revelation 17:9-10).

    Regarding Satan himself, who is a literal, seven-headed, red, serpentine dragon (Revelation 12:3,9), also called Leviathan (Isaiah 27:1, Psalms 74:14, Job 41:1,34), he could have begun his existence as a dinosaur born some 66 million years ago, near the end the age of the dinosaurs. Over millions of years before his birth, his dinosaur species could have evolved (or been miraculously granted by God) to have consciousness as we know it. And his seven-headedness, which could have been a fortuitous (or a miraculous) mutation, could have been heralded by his species as the arrival of a super-consciousness into the world. As he grew up as a conscious dinosaur, Leviathan could have come to know and worship God with all his heart. God could have then granted him immortality and taken him into heaven to serve God as a cherub. Cherubim are a type of angelic being (Ezekiel 10) which could include individuals shaped like different animals, like how seraphim are a different type of angelic being (Isaiah 6:2-3) which includes individuals shaped like different animals (Revelation 4:7-8). As a cherub in heaven, Leviathan could have been assigned to the office of "the morning star", and so been given the name "Lucifer", which means "the morning star".

    After spending some 66 million years in heaven as a very contented cherub, perhaps even as one of the greatest angelic beings in heaven, Lucifer could have been assigned by God to go to the earth to be a "covering cherub" over the Garden of Eden (Ezekiel 28:13-14), to watch over that special, local garden and its special, individual humans named Adam and Eve miraculously created by God only some 6,000 years ago. God could have also at that time given the as-yet-unfallen Lucifer authority over all the rest of the earth (cf. Luke 4:5-6). But Lucifer could have chafed at his new assignment, seeing it as wholly beneath his dignity. He could have felt like a long-time chief of staff of a U.S. President would feel if he were suddenly assigned by the President to leave his high position in the White House to go baby-sit two pet salamanders in a hothouse in Alaska.

    From Eden, Lucifer could have repeatedly requested God to let him return to his high position in heaven, only to be refused, until Lucifer in his heart fell into rebellion against God, and vowed to himself that eventually he would ascend back into heaven and take rule over all the angelic beings there, regardless of what God wanted (Isaiah 14:13-14). And so the fallen Lucifer became Satan (cf. Luke 10:18), which means the "Adversary". While still in Eden, as possibly his first act of open rebellion against God, Satan decided to deceive Eve into disobeying God (Genesis 3), knowing this would result in her (and her offspring) becoming mortal (Genesis 2:17). In the future, he will deceive the world (Revelation 12:9) into worshipping himself and the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") (Revelation 13:4-8), knowing this will result in billions of people ending up in eternal suffering (Revelation 14:9-11), the same eternal suffering which he knows he himself will end up in (Revelation 12:
    2c, Revelation 20:10,15, Matthew 25:41,46).

    Lucifer will deceive the world into worshipping him after he loses a war in heaven at the midpoint of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, and is cast down to the earth permanently (Revelation 12:7 to 13:4). But instead of coming down looking defeated, he could descend to the earth in a magnificent, gigantic golden spaceship for all the world to see. The world could see him as an alien, but he could slither forth from his spaceship and say something like: "Greetings! Be not alarmed. I assure you that I am no alien, but a fellow earthling, born and raised on this planet millions of years ago. I have come to help you through this terrible tribulation which you are experiencing, and to show you how you might eventually return with me back into a much better, higher realm of existence wholly beyond this evil, material universe".

    He could then foist upon the world an updated version of an ancient Gnostic lie: "Listen, my fellow earthlings! None of us belong here. We didn't start out here, but all started out as wholly-spiritual beings, even wholly-divine beings, residing in utter bliss from all eternity in the Pleroma, what you would call Heaven, the higher realm which I will eventually take you back to. During the endless ages of our past existence in the Pleroma, we were not averse to partaking in a great variety of different entertainments. So when YHWH, who was one of us, yet of greater consciousness than any one of us, announced he had devised a marvelous new form of entertainment, we were ready to give it a try.

    "YHWH said he had created a physical universe (this one), which to us was like what you would call a virtual reality, like the ones you create using computers. And he said we could enter this universe and interact with all of its amazing physical life-forms and objects by temporarily taking upon ourselves physical bodies, which to us was the equivalent of what you would call a virtual-reality headset, gloves, etc., which some of you wear on your bodies when you want to wholly immerse yourselves in the virtual realities which you create with computers.

    "But then YHWH proposed another aspect to his entertainment which we all most foolishly accepted. He said in order to increase the intensity of our experience in his universe, he would use his greater consciousness to hypnotize each of ours, so while we were in his universe each of us would think all we were were physical entities within his material universe; we would completely forget we were actually wholly-divine beings, and had been from all eternity, dwelling in bliss in the Pleroma.

    "When one of us asked YHWH: 'But what if we don't like our experience in your universe and want to exit it and return here to the Pleroma, how could we ever notify you of our wishes when under your hypnotic spell we will have no knowledge of that option?' YHWH answered in a very assuring manner that he would be able to instantly extricate any one of us whom he saw wasn't enjoying his new entertainment. We all believed him, because he hadn't yet shown his true nature to anyone. We had no idea that in his heart he was actually an evil, cruel tyrant who all along had been planning to imprison, enslave, and torture all of us within his diabolical device (this physical universe).

    "But during my great sufferings in YHWH's physical realm, and the great struggles of my consciousness, my spirit, to find a way of escaping it, my spirit eventually grew in power to be equal to YHWH's, and so I was able to break myself free from his hypnotic spell, and regain all of my divine power. I can show you the way to do the same thing, but you must be willing to join with me now with all of your own consciousnesses, your own spirits. You must be willing to love and worship me now completely, so that the power of all of your spirits might become joined with the power of my own, greater spirit, and eventually break completely free from YHWH's hypnotic spell. Then you will regain all of your own, divine power, like I did, and together we will defeat YHWH, and we will escape this vile, material universe, and ascend back to the Pleroma and to our bliss as gods, doing what we please, forever"
    .

    The world will actually believe this lie (or something similar to it), for it will be accompanied by the most amazing miracles (e.g. Revelation 13:13) performed by the power of Lucifer/Satan himself (2 Thessalonians 2:9), and because it will be accompanied by a strong delusion sent by YHWH God on the unrepentant world (2 Thessalonians 2:11-12). But the world will worship Lucifer (and his human son the Antichrist) for less than four years (Revelation 13:4-18, Daniel 12:11-12) before Jesus Christ (who is YHWH: John 10:30, Zechariah 14:3-4) returns from heaven and defeats them completely (Revelation 19:20 to 20:3). Jesus will then set up his own, 1,000-year, physical kingdom on the earth with the physically resurrected Church (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29).
     
  11. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    Note that isn't the case, for the four beasts in Daniel 7:3-7 represent the ancient empires of Babylon (lion), Medo-Persia (bear), Greece (leopard), and Rome (fourth beast). And the four heads of the Greek empire (Daniel 7:6) would represent the four Diadochian Greek kingdoms which the Greek empire broke up into after the death of Alexander the Great (Daniel 8:22). But the seven heads of the beast in Revelation 13:1 and Revelation 17:3 represent the empires of ancient Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome, and (possibly) Islam. So the four beasts in Daniel 7 represent the same thing as four of the seven heads in Revelation, but the heads in Daniel 7 aren't entirely the same as the heads in Revelation. If they were entirely the same, it would have been said, at the time of the apostle John and the Roman empire in the 1st century AD, that "six are fallen" instead of "five are fallen" (Revelation 17:10). For in Daniel 7, the first three beasts before the Roman empire had a total of six heads, not five.

    See post #124 above. And see the last 2 sections of post #156 above.
     
  12. 5thKingdom

    5thKingdom Newbie

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    As I already told you the four Beasts could not represent political kingdoms
    unless you believe that the PEOPLE living in the Roman Empire are cast into the "Burining Flame" (aka "Lake of Fire")
    while the PEOPLE living in the other Beasts continue to exist on earth for a "Season and Time" after the fourth Beast.

    I will say this again for you S-L-O-W-L-Y so you can focus on it this time:
    Daniel 7:11-12 reveals that the PEOPLE living in the Fourth Beast are cast into the "Burning Flames".
    This is the SAME EVENT as the PEOPLE living in the Revelations Beast being cast alive into the "Lake of Fire" in Rev 19:20
    In both cases we are talking about the "ten horns" an the "ten Kings" living under the Rule of the "Little Horn" or "False Prophet"
    during Daniel's Fourth Beast/Kingdom or the Revelations Beast/Kingdom.

    So here is your PROPLEM

    You do not teach that the PEOPLE living in the Roman Empire are cast alive into the Lake of Fire..
    while the PEOPLE living in the other Kingdoms continue to exist on earth for another "Season and Time"


    So you can STOP all you cut-and-paste responses and you can EXPLAIN
    how the PEOPLE in the Greek Empire and the PEOPLE in the Persian empire
    continue to exist on earth for a "Season and Time" after the PEOPLE in the Roman Empire
    are "cast alive" into the "Lake-of-Fire"....

    I will wait for your answer
    But I am pretty sure that Daniel 7:11-12 destroys your gospel.

    .


    .
     
  13. 5thKingdom

    5thKingdom Newbie

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    The Seven heads of Daniel's Beasts represent the Seven Heads of Daniel's Beasts.
    I already explained to you that Daniel 7:11-12 prevents any possibility that Daniel's Beasts represent physical kingdoms.

    And
    Rev 17 says that (when John wrote the prophecy 5 of the HEADS had "fallen" and 1 of the HEADS existed and
    1 future HEAD (the Anti-Christ, the head of the fourth Beast) was still to come.

    Your theories are OLD and PROVEN to contradict Scripture.

    Rome was NOT the fourth Beast... that theory has been around for 500 years
    and the Bible PROMISES that Biblical truth would not be "unsealed" until the
    "Season and Time" after the Fourth Beast was cast into the Lake of Fire.

    Are you teaching that people have already been cast alive into the Burning Flame [Dan 7:11-12]
    and the lake of fire [Rev 19:20]?

    When you start teaching that some people are in the Lake-of-Fire
    while other people exist on earth for a 'Season and Time...
    let me know. Until then your theory is proven un-Biblical,
    and therefore, wrong.


    Your cut-and-paste responses are a waste of your time and mine....
    deal with one subject at a time. You compound error on top of error.
    In the end you are nowhere near the Truth.


    .
     
  14. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

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    Can you provide the identity of the little horn and where -that entity- is actually located on the Earth?

    -Hint: Revelation 13 and Revelation 17 provide all the clues needed ....-
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2017
  15. 5thKingdom

    5thKingdom Newbie

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    Yes I can identify the "Little Horn" but it is a PERSON and not an entity or location.
    The PERSON called the "Little Horn" in Daniel's Fourth Beast is called the "False Prophet" in Revelations.
    He is the PERSON that rules over the "wheat and tares" living in the Fourth Beasts or Revelation Beast.

    In the Bible, Daniel's Fourth Beast/Kingdom is also shown as the Revelation Beast and the Great Tribulation
    and the Reign of the Anti-Christ.

    In other words... the "ten horns" and the "ten kings" of Daniel's Fourth Beast/Kingdom are the SAME PEOPLE
    as the "ten horns" and the "ten kings" of Revelation 17... and, in both cases the "Little Horn/False Prophet"
    RULED over the "wheat and tares" as they "agreed to give their power and strength to the Beast".

    Again... the "Little Horn" and "False Prophet" is called the 7th "head/king" and the 8th "head/king"
    in Rev 17... demonstrating that the Revelations Beast consisted of TWO separate Judgment
    (5th Trumpet and 6th Trumpet) and TWO separate Woes (First woe and Second Woe)
    and TWO separate "heads/kings" (7th head and 8th head) and Two separate
    and distinct Beasts.

    The "Little Horn" was a PERSON.... not an entity.
    And there are (literally) DOZENS of different passages talking about him
    under several different NAMES.

    But... you must harmonize ALL RELATED SCRIPTURES to find Biblical Truth.
    You cannot form a (correct) doctrine based harmonizing two-or-three passages....
    at best that will only result in partial-truth.

    Any other questions?


    .
     
  16. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    Note that neither Daniel 7:11 nor Revelation 19:20 refers to plural "people" with regard to the "beast". For both verses can refer only to the individual man-aspect of the "beast", commonly called the Antichrist.

    That is, while "beasts" can refer figuratively to men (Titus 1:12), Revelation uses a Greek masculine-pronoun singular "him" to refer to its beast (Revelation 13:8) when it's referring to the individual "man" (Revelation 13:18) aspect of its beast, commonly called the Antichrist, the individual "man of sin" (2 Thessalonians 2:3) who will sit (at least one time) in a third Jewish temple in Jerusalem and proclaim himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). He will fulfill the individual "man" aspect of the "beast" who will come (Revelation 13:18) and bring the world into the conscious and open worship of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) and himself (Revelation 13:4,8, Revelation 12:9). He will rule the earth for 3.5 literal years (Revelation 13:5-10, Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7), and will have a miracle-working False Prophet (Revelation 19:20, Revelation 16:13), who by amazing, Satanic miracles (2 Thessalonians 2:9b), such as calling fire down from heaven (Revelation 13:13), will deceive the world into worshipping a speaking (possibly an android) image of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:15), and receiving a mark of the Antichrist's name or gematrial name-number (666) on their right hand or forehead (Revelation 13:16-18). The Antichrist and his False Prophet will ultimately be cast into the lake of fire at Jesus Christ's Second Coming (Revelation 19:20), while at that time Satan will be bound in the bottomless pit for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:1-3). None of these things has happened yet.

    A second aspect of Revelation's beast is that it's a powerful fallen angel (referred to with a Greek masculine-pronoun "he" in Revelation 17:11) who is now literally in the bottomless pit and will ascend from it during the future Tribulation to spiritually empower the empire of the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) (Revelation 17:8-11), empire being a third aspect of the beast, represented by the animal symbols of Revelation 13:1-2. The fallen-angel aspect of the beast could be the angelic prince whom Satan assigned to spiritually empower the ancient empire of Babylon, just as Satan assigned other fallen angelic princes to spiritually empower the subsequent ancient empires of Persia and Greece (Daniel 10:13,20). When the ancient empire of Babylon was defeated, the fallen angelic prince empowering it could have been cast into the bottomless pit. This same fallen angel could be released to empower a revival of the empire of Babylon during the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (of Revelation 13:5-18).

    The release of the powerful fallen angelic prince of Babylon from the bottomless pit could occur at the same time as the unbinding of four other powerful fallen angels now bound in the Euphrates (Revelation 9:14b), who could have been bound there at the fall of the ancient empire of Babylon. The binding of a stone to a scroll by the prophet Jeremiah about the fall of the ancient empire of Babylon, and the casting of the scroll into the Euphrates to sink down to the bottom (Jeremiah 51:63-64) could have been a symbolic act which included a representation of the binding of the four powerful fallen angels and their being cast into the Euphrates to sink down to the bottom.

    When these four fallen angels are released at one point during the future tribulation, they will cause an army of 200 million strange horse-like beings to kill a third of mankind (Revelation 9:15-19). This could be done in order to make mankind completely desperate before its takeover by Satan and the Antichrist mid-tribulation, when Satan and his fallen angels will be cast down from heaven to the earth permanently after losing a mid-tribulation war in heaven (Revelation 12:7 to 13:18).
     
  17. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    Note that the "Little Horn", commonly called the Antichrist, is a different individual man than the "False Prophet".

    That is, the second beast in Revelation, which comes up out of the earth in Revelation 13:11-16, represents the individual man who will become the Antichrist's False Prophet (Revelation 19:20, Revelation 16:13). He could be a secretly-apostate pope who at some point during his tenure will make a great push for peace and unity between Christianity and Islam. He could say something like: "Why do we fight each other? Are we not all the spiritual children of Abraham and of his God, the one God? Can't we lay aside our foolish, man-made differences of theology, which have done us no good at all, but have only brought us hatred and violence, and unite into one religion of Abraham, one religion of peace, based on love for the one God and love for our fellow man? What is more important than this?"

    He could be so skillful in elucidating what the moderate Muslims could call "the true, peaceful, loving nature of Islam", that he could be hailed by them worldwide as (in their words) "a Great Imam, come to rescue our beloved Islam from the bad reputation falsely given to it by the terrorists". In this way, a pope could come to hold high positions of power in two religions at the same time, which could be symbolized by the two horns of the False Prophet lamb (Revelation 13:11). This would be similar to how the seven horns of the true-Jesus lamb in Revelation 5:6 could represent the true Jesus holding seven positions of power at the same time (compare Jesus wearing many crowns at the same time in Revelation 19:12). The False Prophet could even say he is Jesus. But he won't say he's Christ, for the False Prophet and the Antichrist will deny Jesus is the Christ, and will deny Christ is in the flesh (1 John 2:22; 2 John 1:7).

    Once the False Prophet by his amazing miracles has brought the world under his spell (Revelation 13:13-18, Revelation 19:20), including many Muslims and Christians who may not care much for scriptural dogma, but could go wild over his signs and wonders, he could begin to (in his words) "restore to the world the real message which was spoken by me (Jesus) at my first coming, and by the great prophet Mohammed, but which message became corrupted by power-hungry men when they copied and changed the early manuscripts of the Bible and the Koran". He could then gradually initiate the world into the Antichrist's Gnostic Luciferianism (1 John 4:3, Revelation 13:4-6), a religion which could have existed since ancient times in some "mystery" cults, and still exists today in the highest degree of initiation of a worldwide secret society. The False Prophet could present his miraculously calling fire down from heaven (Revelation 13:13) as purported proof that Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) and the Antichrist are the true God (Revelation 13:4-8, Revelation 12:9), in an inversion of how back in Old Testament times, Elijah miraculously called fire down from heaven to prove YHWH is the true God (1 Kings 18:37-39).

    --

    If a secretly apostate pope does become the Antichrist's False Prophet (of Revelation 13:11-16, Revelation 19:20, and Revelation 16:13), adherents of Catholicism will have to decide what their ultimate source of truth is: Is it the pope and the RCC, or God and the Bible? Many adherents of Catholicism who know God and the Bible well and hold to them as their ultimate source of truth will no doubt be utterly aghast at the false doctrines of a False Prophet pope. Such adherents of Catholicism could demand he be removed for heresy and apostasy, and that the cardinals elect a new pope. But other adherents of Catholicism, including many cardinals, bishops, and priests, could be deceived (along with most of the rest of the world) into believing the False Prophet pope's false doctrines, because of his ability to perform the most amazing miracles (Revelation 13:13-14, Revelation 19:20; cf. Matthew 24:24).

    And so a great schism could arise within the RCC. Compare the Akita prophecy: "The work of the devil will infiltrate even into the Church in such a way that one will see cardinals opposing cardinals, bishops against bishops". Many adherents of Catholicism could follow the False Prophet pope, while other adherents of Catholicism could reject him and elect their own, new pope (or reinstall a former pope who's still alive), whom they could declare to be the "True Pope". But this new (or reinstated) "True Pope" could be murdered, along with many of his followers, by the False Prophet pope's soldiers. Compare the Third Secret of Fatima: "he [the pope] was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him, and in the same way there died one after another the other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious, and various lay people of different ranks and positions". Could the soldiers firing "arrows" be the Vatican's Swiss Guards, whose weapons and colorful uniforms hark back to the Middle Ages?

    After this slaughter, the False Prophet pope could manage to retain the papacy and full control of the Vatican, and through his (deceived) cardinals, bishops, and priests, retain full control of all RCC cathedrals, parishes, churches, etc., throughout the world. And when the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") obtains power over all nations, he and the False Prophet will make war against true, Biblical Christians (whether they're adherents of Catholicism or not) throughout the world, and will physically overcome them and kill them (by beheading) in every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

    It's only when the Antichrist has completely broken the physical power of the true Church (which consists of all true Christians, whether they're adherents of Catholicism or not: Ephesians 4:4-6) that the future Tribulation will end (Daniel 12:7b) and Jesus Christ's Second Coming will immediately occur, at which time He will physically resurrect and rapture (gather together) the Church (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6). And at His Second Coming, Jesus Christ will tread the winepress of God's wrath alone (Isaiah 63:3, Revelation 19:15-21), and so He/God will get all the glory for defeating the power of evil on the earth (Deuteronomy 32:39-43). For He/God won't share this glory with the Church (cf. Isaiah 42:8-14, Isaiah 26:18).
     
  18. 5thKingdom

    5thKingdom Newbie

    505
    +26
    Christian
    Private

    No.
    The "Little Horn" was the "head/king" of Daniel's Fourth Kingdom
    The "False Prophet" was the "head/king" of the Revelation Beast.

    In the Bible,
    we read about the (5th) Eternal "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 5 and 7 and 8 and 19]
    we read about the (4th) Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 25:1]
    we read about the (3rd) Christian "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 13]
    we read about the (2nd) Jewish "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 22:2]

    The Bible does not NAME the first "Kingdom of Heaven".... but we all know that the
    (1st) Pre-Flood "Kingdom of Heaven", containing all the Saints from Adam to Noah,
    and it preceded the Jewish Kingdom.

    The Fourth Kingdom is shown as (a) Daniel's Fourth Beast and (b) the Revelations Beast and
    (c) the Great Tribulation and (d) the Reign of the "Little Horn" and "False Prophet".

    In other words (pay attention this is important) the PEOPLE living in Daniel's Fourth Beast
    are the SAME PEOPLE living in the Revelation Beast. In Daniel 7 they are called ten "horns/kings"
    and in Rev 17 they are called ten "horns/kings". They are also shown in Daniel 2 as ten "toes"
    and ten "kings" and they are shown in Matthew 25 as ten "virgins".

    In each case they represent the "wheat and tares" in the Fourth Kingdom
    (notice wise virgins and foolish virgins / toes of IRON and toes of CLAY)
    And in each case they are the PEOPLE living on earth when the Lord Returns.

    I cannot spend the time to correct all the errors in your post.
    But I can tell you that you have ZERO credibility unless/until you can
    NAME each of Daniel's Kingdoms
    NAME who are the "horns" and "kings" and "virgins"
    NAME the "Abomination" occurring in the Fourth Kingdom and
    EXPLAIN the "season and time" on earth AFTER the destruction of the Fourth Beast.

    This is very very important... if you cannot harmonize Daniel 7:11-12 and the "Season and Time" on earth
    AFTER the destruction of the Fourth Beast / Revelations Beast / Great Tribulation / Anti-Christ reign...
    then you cannot offer an "informed opinion" on detail occurring during that Kingdom.



    .
     
  19. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

    +590
    Christian
    Married
    The Little Horn is NOT the False Prophet ....

    Here 2 other HINTS:
    The location of the Little Horn/ Beast that the world shall wonder- whose name were not written in the Book of life- is provided in Revelation 17:8 ...identify the location >>>and you will be able to find the name of the Litlle Horn in another Chapter of Revelation who talk about an angel with a KEY that God will send just before the FIRST WOE...
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2017
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