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Featured How do you view Daniel 2

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by PROPHECYKID, Feb 18, 2017.

  1. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
  2. vinsight4u

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    /nvm
     
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  3. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    The word TRINITY is not in the bible either. Do you believe in the triune God? God Its a parable. Anything to do with some going and some staying is the Rapture. You just don't believe in he Rapture, so maybe you will get to stay.

    I will not be here.............I can only explain the facts, I can't make you grasp them.
     
  4. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    This might best be understood in the light of Daniel 7, in which the first three beasts (Daniel 7:3-6) represent the ancient empires of Babylon (lion), Medo-Persia (bear), and Greece (leopard). The fourth beast, or fourth "king"/"kingdom" (Daniel 7:17,23), represents the ancient Roman empire. And the ten horns/kings which come out of it (Daniel 7:7,24) could represent ten major kingdoms/nations today which came out the former territory of the Roman empire, which consisted not only of Western Europe, but also the Middle East and North Africa. These ten nations could be Germany, the U.K., France, Italy, Spain, Turkey, Egypt, Iraq, Algeria, and Syria. The ten part-iron/part-clay toes of Daniel 2:42 could represent the same thing as the ten horns of Daniel 7:7. The Europeans could be the iron, and the Arabs and Turks could be the clay. In Daniel 2:43, the inability of the iron to mix with the clay could represent how, for example, there are many Turks living in Germany, but they remain separated in ghettoes within German cities. Similarly, there are many Arab Algerians living in France, but they remain separated in ghettoes within French cities.

    But despite this social separation, which could endure indefinitely, the people of Western Europe on the one hand and the people of the Middle East and North Africa on the other could still one day put aside their political separation and become united into one federation. For Daniel 2:42 refers to the ten as a singular "kingdom". The person who will bring this about could be the Antichrist.

    The arising of the "little" horn (Daniel 7:8, Daniel 8:9), which is "diverse" from the ten major nations (Daniel 7:24), could mean that the Antichrist will arise from a little country. And the little horn arising from "among" the ten major nations (Daniel 7:8) could mean that the Antichrist's country's territory used to be part of the Roman empire. And before that, it was part of one of the four Diadochian Greek kingdoms which succeeded the Greek empire of Alexander the Great (Daniel 8:8-9,21-25). The territory of these four kingdoms stretched from Greece over to Iran, and down into Egypt. So the Antichrist could come from the Middle East. He could be an Arab who will come from the little country of Lebanon, from the modern city of Tyre (Ezekiel 28:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:4).

    The Antichrist could start out by claiming to be a Baathist. After becoming the leader of Lebanon, he could peacefully gain control of a Baathist federation of three of the ten major nations (Daniel 7:24): Egypt, "toward the south" of Lebanon (Daniel 8:9), and Iraq and Syria, "toward the east" of Lebanon (Daniel 8:9). This federation could also include the minor nation of a United Palestine, that is, a defeated Israel, "the pleasant land" (Daniel 8:9).

    This Baathist federation could be put together in the future by an Iraqi Baathist General who could completely defeat and occupy Israel and Egypt with a huge Iraqi Army (Daniel 11:15-17; in verse 17 the original Hebrew word translated as "daughter" is "bath"), but who could then mysteriously disappear (Daniel 11:19) shortly before the Antichrist arises on the world stage (Daniel 11:21-45). Years later, when the Antichrist gains control of all ten of the major nations, he could appoint kings over them (Revelation 17:12) who will defer to him (Revelation 17:13), like how when Napoleon gained control of different nations, he appointed kings over them who would defer to him.
     
  5. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    Note that Daniel 12:11-12 and Revelation 16:15 could mean that 1,335 literal days after the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) is set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of a third Jewish temple in Jerusalem (Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31), Jesus' second coming will occur, and blessed are those Christians who will wait and remain obedient until that day. If the literal 1,260 days of the Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-8, Revelation 12:6) will begin when the abomination of desolation is set up; and if the seven vials of God's wrath will begin on the day after the 1,260 days of the Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 11:15,19, Revelation 15:5 to 16:1); and if the first six vials will be poured out over thirty days; then the sixth vial could be poured out on the 1,290th day after the abomination of desolation is set up (Daniel 12:11).

    It is on this 1,290th day that the blessing of Daniel 12:12 and Revelation 16:15 could be given, after the sixth vial has been poured out (Revelation 16:12), encouraging those in the church who will still be alive on the earth at that time to keep holding on just forty-five more days until Jesus' second coming on the 1,335th day. The forty-five days could be taken up by the gathering together of the world's armies to Armageddon (Revelation 16:14,16) (Har Megiddo: Mount Megiddo in northern Israel) and then their moving south to pillage Jerusalem, right before Jesus' second coming and their total defeat (Zechariah 14:2-21, Revelation 19:19-21).
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2017
  6. vinsight4u

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    /nvm
     
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  7. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    We understand ts Gods Decree. Its noted from the book of Daniel, hence its Daniel's Decree. Kind of like the Lords prayer is really the Disciples prayer. Jesus told them, Pray ye like this.

    Its semantics. And to me irrelevant. The deal is its a 490 year decree/judgment against Israel.

    And its in three sections.

    The last Section is a week.

    It starts when the Church is Raptured.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2017
  8. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    Regarding "the final Babylonian king prophesied by Jeremiah", are you thinking of Jeremiah 25:11-12?

    If so, a future ruler of the literal city of Babylon could indeed rule the nations again in our future. For the seven heads of Revelation's "beast" in its empire aspect (Revelation 13:1, Revelation 17:3) represent seven different empires (Revelation 17:9-10): Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome, and (possibly) Islam. The first five had fallen by the time of John the apostle in the first century AD: "five are fallen" (Revelation 17:10, Revelation 1:1b-2). The sixth (Rome) existed at the time of John: "one is" (Revelation 17:10). The seventh (possibly Islam) had not come by the time of John: "the other is not yet come" (Revelation 17:10). The empire of the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) will be a different, still-future, eighth head (Revelation 17:11), which will be a revival of one of the five empires which had fallen by the time of John (Revelation 17:8,10-11). It will be a revival of the empire of Babylon. The Antichrist will transform the present-day, rebuilt city of Babylon (in Iraq) into the capital of his world empire, only to see his city of Babylon destroyed at Jesus' second coming (Isaiah 13).

    Before the second coming, when the world is brought into the conscious and open worship of Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) and the Antichrist, during the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), the Antichrist will build their main temple in the city of Babylon. For a temple to "wickedness" will be built in Shinar (Babylonia) (Zechariah 5:8,11), and the Antichrist is called "that Wicked" (2 Thessalonians 2:8). Also, the dragon has been the god worshipped in the city of Babylon since ancient times.

    The Antichrist may claim to be Nebuchadnezzar returned, and so reinstitute the system which Nebuchadnezzar set up whereby everyone had to worship an image or be killed (Daniel 3, Revelation 13:15). The Antichrist may also claim to be, at the same time, the return of Nimrod (the founder of Babylon: Genesis 10:8-10), and Hammurabi, and Asoka, and other famous rulers of the past. For he may claim that he has had many different "past lives" as various "enlightened" rulers.

    Besides building a main temple in Babylon, the Antichrist will also sit (at least one time) in a future, third Jewish temple in Jerusalem, and declare himself God there (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36,31, Matthew 24:15, Revelation 11:1-2). The Antichrist could also sit (at least one time) in other religions' holiest shrines, and declare himself to be God there as well. For example, he could also sit in Islam's Kaaba in Mecca, in the Sikhs' Golden Temple in Amritsar, in Catholicism's St. Peter's Basilica in the Vatican, etc.

    Regarding Jeremiah 29:10, there the seventy years could have already been fulfilled in ancient times, for they could be the same, already-fulfilled seventy years as Zechariah 7:5, 2 Chronicles 36:20-23, Zechariah 1:12, and Daniel 9:2.
     
  9. Bible2+

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    Do you mean the future tribulation won't start until the church is raptured?

    If so, note that nothing in the Bible teaches or requires a pre-tribulation rapture of the church. Instead, the Bible shows that Jesus won't come and gather together (rapture) the church until immediately after the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:29-31, Mark 13:24-27; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8). That's why the marriage of the church doesn't happen until Revelation 19:7, in connection with Jesus' second coming and the physical resurrection of the church at that time (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16). Matthew 24:30-31 refers to the same second coming of Jesus and gathering together (rapture) of the church as 2 Thessalonians 2:1, which refers to the same second coming of Jesus and catching up together (rapture) of the church as 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17.

    Jesus won't return and gather together (rapture) the church until sometime after there's a falling away (an apostasy) in the church, and the Antichrist sits (at least one time) in a third Jewish temple in Jerusalem and proclaims himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:1-4, Daniel 11:31,36, Revelation 11:1-2, Revelation 13:4-8), and the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) is set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the third temple (Matthew 24:15-31, Daniel 11:31). For when Jesus returns to gather together (and marry) the church, he will destroy the Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2:1,8, Revelation 19:7,20). Before Jesus returns, the church will have to go through the future, literal 3.5 years of the Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-31).

    At Jesus' second coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15; 2 Thessalonians 2:1, Matthew 24:30), the church will be physically resurrected and caught up together/gathered together (raptured) (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; 2 Thessalonians 2:1, Matthew 24:31), not to remove the church from the earth (Proverbs 10:30, John 17:15,20), but to take the church only as high as the clouds of the sky to hold a meeting in the air with the returned Jesus (1 Thessalonians 4:17).

    At that meeting, Jesus will judge everyone in the church (Psalms 50:3-5, cf. Mark 13:27) by their works (2 Corinthians 5:10, Romans 2:6-8, Luke 12:45-48, Matthew 25:19-30). And then Jesus will marry in the clouds the obedient part of the church (Revelation 19:7-8, Matthew 25:1-12), those in the church (of all times) who "overcame" to the end (Revelation 3:5, Revelation 2:26). They will then mount white horses and come back down from the sky (the first heaven) with Jesus (Revelation 19:14) as he defeats the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") and the world's armies (Revelation 19:15-21). Jesus will then make the marriage supper of Revelation 19:9 for the physically-resurrected and married obedient part of the church in the earthly Jerusalem (Isaiah 25:6-9; 1 Corinthians 15:54). Jesus and the obedient part of the church will then physically reign on the earth for a thousand years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29).
     
  10. vinsight4u

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
  11. vinsight4u

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
  12. vinsight4u

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
  13. vinsight4u

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
  14. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    You act like that is something only you know. The facts are the Decree was made know to Daniel or explained in detail. The 70 year in Captivity was never the full Decree, that is why Gabriel explained it in detail to Daniel. Thus Daniel expounded on the subject in his book, this is why its considered Daniels Decree but Jeremiahs Prophecy. In other words Daniel made the Decree/Order known to all. Like I said, I don't care, its all from God, you still have to know what it means, and we have 7 Years left in the Decree/Prophecy/Order.

    SURE.............But I will be in Heaven after the Rapture from a Dead in Christ position, or one that changes in the Twinkling of an eye. Where you will be is up to you. I am finished debating this with people. If you can't grasp it, then it is what it is.
     
  15. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    That's right.

    For the future day of the Lord (Christ) (2 Thessalonians 2:2) will begin at the Lord Jesus Christ's second coming (1 Corinthians 1:7-8; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10), which won't occur until Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, "immediately after" the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8), which is when the rapture (the gathering together) of the church will occur (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

    That's right.

    For 2 Thessalonians 2:3 refers to when an individual man will be revealed (that is, without any remaining doubt) as being the Antichrist by his sitting (at least one time) in a future, third Jewish temple in Jerusalem and proclaiming himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36,31, Matthew 24:15). This is one of the things which have to happen sometime before the future day of Jesus' second coming and the gathering together (rapture) of the church (2 Thessalonians 2:1-8), immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6). For at the second coming, the Antichrist will be destroyed (2 Thessalonians 2:8b, Revelation 19:20).

    *******

    The ten virgins parable (Matthew 25:1-13) shows that the marriage of the church to Jesus won't occur until his second coming (Matthew 25:10), which Jesus had just finished saying won't occur until "immediately after the tribulation" (Matthew 24:29-31), just as Revelation 19:7 shows that the marriage won't occur until after the (never fulfilled) tribulation, shown in Revelation chapters 6 to 18. The parable's extra oil (Matthew 25:4,9b) could represent the continued good works of Christians, by which they will be able to pass the judgment of the church by Jesus (Matthew 25:19-30, Romans 2:6-8) and enter the marriage of the church to Jesus at his second coming (Matthew 25:10, Revelation 19:7-21).

    The marriage supper (Revelation 19:9) won't have yet begun by the time of Revelation 19, which won't begin until after the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (cf. Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8). For regarding the church, the marriage supper will be a literal feast in the earthly Jerusalem after the resurrection and marriage of the church at Jesus' second coming (Isaiah 25:6-9; 1 Corinthians 15:54, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-54). While the church will enjoy a feast "of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined" (Isaiah 25:6), the birds will feast on the corpses of the world's armies defeated by Jesus' at his second coming (Revelation 19:17-21).

    Also, regarding the ten virgins parable, in Matthew 25:6 "midnight" could represent mid-tribulation, when the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) could be set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of a third Jewish temple in Jerusalem (Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31). So when it says "at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh" (Matthew 25:6), this could mean that at the mid-tribulation point when the abomination of desolation is set up, the church will be given the knowledge of the date (as in the year, month, and day) of Jesus' second coming. This date could be the 1,335th day after the abomination of desolation is set up (Daniel 12:11-12, cf. Revelation 16:15).

    That's right.

    Also, regarding the sheep and goat judgment, note that Matthew 25:31 doesn't mean that Matthew 25:32-46 (just as 2 Peter 3:10a doesn't mean that 2 Peter 3:10b) will happen immediately at Jesus' second coming, only that it will happen sometime subsequent to his second coming, at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11-15), after the future millennium and subsequent events (Revelation 20:7-15).

    Matthew 25:32-46 refers to when the "nations" will be finally-judged by their works at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:12-13), whereas at Jesus' second coming, he will finally-judge only those in the church (Psalms 50:3-5, cf. Mark 13:27; Matthew 25:19-30). Also, Matthew 25:41,46 refers to when the unsaved of all times, whether Jews or Gentiles, will be sent into the everlasting suffering of the lake of fire and brimstone at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:15), whereas at the second coming, only the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") and his False Prophet will be cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 19:20). The saved "sheep" at the sheep/goat judgment will include those, whether Jews or Gentiles, who will become Christians during the millennium (Isaiah 66:19-21). Matthew 25:34 refers to obedient Christians inheriting the kingdom of God the Father on the new earth in New Jerusalem, the Father's house (Revelation 21:1-7, John 14:2).

    Matthew 24:35 refers to the eternal nature of Jesus' Word (cf. 1 Peter 1:24-25), not to the timing of the subsequent verses. For Matthew 24:36 is referring to the timing of Jesus' second coming in Matthew 24:37-51, as in Matthew 24:30, Matthew 24:27, and Matthew 24:3, and as in Matthew 25:10, Matthew 25:13, Matthew 25:19, and Matthew 25:31. This is the same (never fulfilled) second coming as shown in Revelation 19:7 to 20:3.

    *******

    Do you mean Isaiah 13 also came to pass in ancient times?

    If so, note that the city of Babylon referred to in Isaiah 13 (verses 1,19) isn't the ancient city of Babylon, just as it isn't the symbolic (and worldwide) "Babylon" of Revelation. Instead, it's only the present-day, literal city of Babylon (in Iraq), which the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") will transform into his world capital during the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24.

    For in Isaiah 13:3, the "sanctified ones" who "rejoice in [YHWH's] highness" are the obedient people in the church in Revelation 19:7-8, after the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. They will be, in Isaiah 13:4-5, the "host of the battle" from "heaven", when they physically descend from the sky (the first heaven) with Jesus as he wages war against the world's armies at his second coming (Revelation 19:14-21). So in Isaiah 13:6,9, the "day of the Lord" is the same as the future, second-coming day of the Lord (1 Corinthians 1:7-8; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10).

    Isaiah 13:10,13 refers to the same, future, second-coming time as Matthew 24:29-31 and Revelation 19:15.

    Isaiah 13:11 refers to Jesus' defeat of the world's armies at his second coming (Revelation 19:19-21, Zechariah 14:3-21).

    Isaiah 13:16 refers not to what Jesus or the church will do, but to what some unsaved "Medes" (Isaiah 13:17-18) will do to the inhabitants of the city of Babylon at the time of Jesus' second coming. By "Medes" is meant the native inhabitants of that part of the Middle East which in ancient times was called "Media" and is now in northwestern Iran. (The Kurds who now live there, and in surrounding areas, even claim to be the descendants of the ancient Medes.)

    In Isaiah 13:17, the "Medes" aren't the ancient Medes who conquered the ancient city of Babylon (Daniel 5:28,31). For the ancient Medes didn't make the ancient city of Babylon uninhabited (Isaiah 13:19-22) when they defeated it, but instead kept it as a thriving city which continued on for centuries.

    In Isaiah 13:19-22, the total and eternal destruction of the city of Babylon has never been fulfilled. For Saddam Hussein rebuilt the city of Babylon (using bricks he inscribed with "built by Saddam Hussein, son of Nebuchadnezzar"). And after his defeat, U.S. forces built a military base in Babylon. And in the future, the Antichrist will transform the city of Babylon into his world capital. Isaiah 13:19-22 won't be fulfilled until this city is destroyed at Jesus Christ's second coming.
     
  16. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    Do you mean that the rapture will take believers into the third heaven (cf. 2 Corinthians 12:2b)? If so, note that no scripture requires that believers will be raptured any higher than the clouds of the sky (the first heaven) to hold a meeting in the air with Jesus at his second coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17). After that meeting, in which the church will be judged by Jesus (Psalms 50:3-5, cf. Mark 13:27), and the obedient part of the church will be married to Jesus (Revelation 19:7, Matthew 25:1-13), the obedient part of the church will come back down from the sky (the first heaven) with Jesus (Revelation 19:15-21) to physically reign on the earth with him for a thousand years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29). After the thousand years and subsequent events (Revelation 20:7-15, Ezekiel chapters 38-39), the obedient part of the church will live on a new earth with God the Father and Jesus in the literal city of New Jerusalem (Revelation chapters 21-22).

    Do you mean that there will be only a partial rapture of the church, sometime before Jesus' second coming, of only those in the church who are ready for the rapture by simply believing that it's pre-tribulation, and/or by living holy lives? If so, note that nothing in the Bible says or requires that anyone in the church will be left behind at the rapture, that the entire church won't be raptured (gathered together) at the time of Matthew 24:31, 2 Thessalonians 2:1, and 1 Thessalonians 4:17, which will be the time of Jesus' second coming, immediately after the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17). For the need for those in the church to be ready for the second coming (Matthew 24:44, Matthew 25:10) doesn't have to do with whether or not they will be raptured at that time, but with whether or not they will lose their salvation at that time (e.g. Luke 12:45-46, Matthew 25:26,30, Mark 8:35-38).

    For some saved people, at the judgment of the church by Jesus (2 Corinthians 5:10, Romans 2:6-8, Luke 12:45-48, Matthew 25:19-30), at his second coming (Psalms 50:3-5, cf. Mark 13:27), will lose their salvation because of such things as unrepentant sin (Luke 12:45-46, Hebrews 10:26-29; 1 Corinthians 9:27), unrepentant laziness (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a, Romans 2:6-8), or apostasy (Mark 8:35-38, Hebrews 6:4-8; 2 Timothy 2:12b). That's why saved people know the "terror" of the coming judgment of the church by Jesus (2 Corinthians 5:10-11), why they must remain in fear of being cut off the same as unbelievers if they don't continue in God's goodness (Romans 11:20-22, Luke 12:45-46), why they must be careful to work out their own ultimate salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12b; 1 Peter 1:17, Romans 2:6-8).
     
  17. vinsight4u

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    /nvm
     
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  18. vinsight4u

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    /nvm
     
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  19. vinsight4u

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