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Featured How do you view Daniel 2

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by PROPHECYKID, Feb 18, 2017.

  1. PROPHECYKID

    PROPHECYKID Veteran

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    So I was reading Daniel 2 recently and reviewing the vision that the king had. As I see it, the vision was basically an overview of the kingdoms that shall rule the world from his time down to the time when Jesus shall put all the manmade governments to an end and establish his kingdom.

    My question is, where in that vision do you think are we right now?

    I would assume we are in this period right here:

    Dan 2:41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.
    Dan 2:42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.
    Dan 2:43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

    I have my opinion on these verses put how do you guys view this verses in relation to where we are at now or maybe where we have been?
     
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  2. tranquil

    tranquil Newbie

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    Dan 2:41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.
    Dan 2:42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.
    Dan 2:43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

    I view the kingdom as being divided by those who take the mark of the beast and those that don't. In other words, not yet but soon-ish.
     
  3. PROPHECYKID

    PROPHECYKID Veteran

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    Well what do you think the iron represents and what the clay represents?
     
  4. food4thought

    food4thought Loving truth Supporter

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    I would say that the mixture of iron and clay is yet future, during the final satanic empire. JMO
     
  5. PROPHECYKID

    PROPHECYKID Veteran

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    Well there definitely must be some sort of future implication because the rock hits the image at the feet. But could it be both past and future?
     
  6. food4thought

    food4thought Loving truth Supporter

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    It's possible... prophecy is sometimes a pattern that keeps repeating itself. I just don't see the iron and clay imagery applying to the Roman Empire at the time of Christ, and since the Rock brings all other empires to an end, I can't see anywhere else it could apply but at Christ's second coming.
     
  7. PROPHECYKID

    PROPHECYKID Veteran

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    I heard an explanation for this once. Well at the time of Jesus it was not the period of iron and clay, it was the period of the Legs of Iron which represented the Iron Monarchy of Rome.

    I think its important to conclude on what the clay represents. The chapter does not give any explanation for clay but in other parts of the bible, clay has been used to represent the people or the church of God.
    Jer_18:6 O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.
    Isa_64:8 But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

    So this is how I can see it being applied in the past. After the Roman Empire there would have been a mixing taking place. Notice however, at the start of verse 41 the clay is described as potters clay but by the end of the verse the clay is miry. Well Potter's clay is pure, free of any sediments or corruption. Miry clay is clay that has been tampered and impure. If in fact, the clay represents the people of God, then it means that the mixing of the iron and clay is really a mixing of the beliefs of Pagan Rome and True Christianity, the result being a corrupted form of christianty.
     
  8. food4thought

    food4thought Loving truth Supporter

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    That all makes sense, and the ten toes could represent the final ten kingdom empire.
     
  9. PROPHECYKID

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    Very possible. I'll agree with that. So I think its one of those prophecies that has a past and future fulfillment.
     
  10. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    The feet of iron and clay are the end times Roman Empire. The EU. Some parts strong, some parts weak, referring to the nations of the EU. We have the fee in place, but not the toes. The ten toes are the final ten leaders of the EU, mostly likely to be organized into ten regions, some of which would contain two, maybe three countries to provide a equal balance to population representation. That's the next thing coming on the bible prophecy timeline.

    The person who will be over those ten leaders will be the little horn in Daniel 7 and 8. Which, after he is power for a short while, Gog/Magog will take place.
     
  11. Another Lazarus

    Another Lazarus Old Newbie

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    [​IMG]
    The Statue of Nebuchadnezzar had shown the Empire that will rise and DIRECTLY affected the Hebrew, there are hundreds of Empires in the world that Gabriel didnt mention as they didnt affect the Hebrew.
    The statue gave the same prophecy as the 4 Beasts of Daniel
    [​IMG]
    The final Beast is the Roman Empire which was reinstituted by the RCC in the end times situation.
    The Little Horn of Daniel




    May Jesus bless you all HalleluYAH
     
  12. Another Lazarus

    Another Lazarus Old Newbie

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    And angel Gabriel has actually revealed the origin of antichrist/fake Messiah who will appear in the end times situation.

    Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

    Messiah be cut off = Jesus crucified for the people.
    The people of prince that shall come in the end times = ROMAN ARMY

    27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    he shall confirm the covenant = The Roman Prince of the end times situation will make a 7 years peace deal between Israel-Arabs enemies.
    This roman prince is not Titus or Nero, because neither Titus or Nero ever made a 7 year covenant.

    If we look at the ME situation we can see that Pope has a big ambition to make Peace there.
    .[​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    I'm not saying Pope is antichrist, we should not precede God in anyway
    we have to wait and see who will make that 7 years Peace Deal
     
  13. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Pretty close, another Lazurus. The ten horns though are not the Caesars. The little horn will be a Caesar (bloodline). The seven heads on the beast in Revelation 17, 12, 13 - those are the Caesars. You have the right idea - wrong beast.
     
  14. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    Got everything right until you got to the RCC part. I don't know why intelligent people fall for this stuff. So you actually believe the RCC is going to lead a group of people to conquer Israel, kill Christians and a 1/4 on man-kind ? Its just nonsensical. The Beast is called A MAN, not a Nation or a Church, but a MAN.
     
  15. Another Lazarus

    Another Lazarus Old Newbie

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    Arent these people 'caesars' ?
    [​IMG]
    I'm not saying Pope is the antichrist, we should not precede God in anyway be4 antichrist is revealed. Its just an analysis from people.

    I found this source what would you say :
    The 7 Kings of Revelation & the 8th King, Petrus Romanus… the Final Pope! - ANTICHRIST REVEALED

    The Inquisition by the RCC against Jews and Christians has shown their insane craving for power which was admitted by Pope John Paul II as the darkest history of RCC.
    [​IMG]


    May Jesus bless you all HalleluYAH
     
  16. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    No, they are not Caesars. More specifically the Julio-Claudians. Augustus through Nero in the list are Julio-Claudians, the Caesar family.

    Augustus was the first emperor, but not the first of the family leaders of the Roman Empire, which Julius Caesar declared himself as dictator for life, but technically is not considered an emperor. As far as bible prophecies goes though, Julius Caesar was the first of the seven kings.

    Roman Emperors - The Imperial Index
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2017
  17. Original Happy Camper

    Original Happy Camper One of GODS Children I am a historicist Supporter

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    The papacy is succession of the Caesars as they continued the rule of what was left of the Roman empire.

    Here are some statements in the issue.

    "...superior papal authority and dominion is derived from the law of the Caesars." Lucius Ferraris, in "Prompta Bibliotheca Canonica, Juridica, Moralis, Theologica, Ascetica, Polemica, Rubristica, Historica", Volume V, article on "Papa, Article II", titled "Concerning the extent of Papal dignity, authority, or dominion and infallibility", #19, published in Petit-Montrouge (Paris) by J. P. Migne, 1858 edition.

    "...the appellation of God had been confirmed by Constantine on the Pope, who being God, cannot be judged by man." Pope Nicholas I, quoted in History of the Councils, vol. IX, Dist.: 96, Can 7, "Satis Evidentur Decret Gratian Primer Para", by Labbe and Cossart.
    "Long ages ago, when Rome through the neglect of the Western emperors was left to the mercy of the barbarous hordes, the Romans turned to one figure for aid and protection, and asked him to rule them; and thus, . . . commenced the temporal sovereignty of the popes. And meekly stepping to the throne of Caesar, the vicar of Christ took up the scepter to which the emperors and kings of Europe were to bow in reverence through so many ages."--American Catholic Quarterly Review, April, 1911.

    "Out of the ruins of political Rome, arose the great moral Empire in the 'giant form' of the Roman Church."--A.C. Flick, The Rise of the Mediaeval Church, 1909, p. 150.

    "Under the Roman Empire the popes had no temporal powers. But when the Roman Empire had disintegrated and its place had been taken by a number of rude, barbarous kingdoms, the Roman Catholic churchnot only became independent of the states in religious affairs, but dominated secular affairs as well. At times, under such rulers as Charlemagne (768-814), Otto the Great (936-973), and Henry III (1039-1056), the civil power controlled the church to some extent; but in general, under the weak political system of feudalism, the well-organized, unified, and centralized church, with the pope at its head, was not only independent in ecclesiastical affairs but also controlled civil affairs"--Carl Conrad Eckhardt, The Papacy and World-Affairs, The University of Chicago Press, 1937, P. 1.

    Pope Pius IX, in his "Discorsi" (I., p. 253), said: "The Caesar who now addresses you, and to whom alone are obedience and fidelity due."

    [Speaking of the time, about 500 A.D., when the Roman Empire was crumbling to pieces:] "No, the [Catholic] Church will not descend into the tomb. It will survive the Empire . . . At length a second empire will arise, and of this empire the Pope will be the master--more then this, he will be the master of Europe. He will dictate his orders to kings who will obey them"--Andrea Lagarde, The Latin Church in the Middle Ages, 1915, p. vi.
     
  18. Original Happy Camper

    Original Happy Camper One of GODS Children I am a historicist Supporter

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    • Pontifix Maximus is a papal title. This was a title of the Roman Caesars and of the Roman Emperors of paganism.
     
  19. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    OHC, Nero, around 60 AD, was the last of the Julio-Claudians, the Caesar family dynasty leaders of the Roman Empire. The next following family line of Roman Emperors were the Flavians. By the time it got to the Popes, amplified bishops of Rome, around 300-400 AD, the Caesar family dynasty was long gone.

    You have to remember when quoting Catholic sources they claim Peter was the first Pope - so their information cannot be trusted when speaking about popes.

    btw, I have been wondering, since you are SDA, why EGW did not connect that Jesus would not be returning in 1844 because in the parable of the fig tree she got at least close in interpreting the fig tree as Israel (actually it is Jerusalem) and Israel was not a nation again, a land full of Jews returned from other nations prior to 1844 - as a pre-requirement to Jesus's return?

    For some reason, she did not make the connection that Israel has to be nation again, prior to Jesus's return.

    Does present day SDA make the connection of the fig tree parable of Israel being a nation and Jerusalem in the hands of the Jews as a pre-requirement to Jesus's return?
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2017
  20. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    I have seen that, read/studied it, discounted it. The Anti-Christ is going to be the LAST BEAST, a leader of a country, just like Daniel 7 says, a Small horn, and he is mentioned with the other BEASTS who are Countries.

    The 8th King is a Demon of some sort, he could be OF THE SEVEN if he wasn't a Demon. That doesn't mean he ever controls anything physically, remember, we wrestle not with flesh and blood, but powers of darkness, that is what John/Jesus is warning us here, there is an 8th KING that is orchestrating this fight against Israel and All things of God. Why do you think the left loves Islam ? It should be against everything they stand for, but they are both anti-God.

    The Pope will have nothing to do with the Anti-Christ who will be a European Leader, and imho, the False Prophet will be a Rabbi who tries to trick Israel.
     
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