Muslim appointed Chaplin American Military Base

[Armoured]

I am aware, considering I attended a reformed Christian service of one in an Australian camp in Afghanistan. There were no American chaplains at the time. My spiritual needs rested on a devout Aussie.

Like I said, my "basis" is fine.

 

[FireDragon76]

Chaplains in the US military have a lot of constraints on what they can do, a code of conduct that prohibits them from proselytizing. They also have to serve everyone in a generalized way, regardless of their religious beliefs. In this way, it's a lot like the clinical pastoral work we have in US hospitals, there are ethical guidelines that have to be followed. It's not equivalent to being an ordinary pastor or minister in a church.

 

[GillDouglas]

Continent or country, the point stands.

Does it? This was once a Christian nation, still rooted in the moralistic teachings of Christianity. Can the chaplain put aside his beliefs for the female soldiers or the LBGT soldiers? Is the chaplain safe working around those whose suffered losses of friends and family to Muslims? As a Christian I understand that God has placed this chaplain in this position for a purpose beyond my understanding. This doesn't mean I have to like it.

 

[durangodawood]

I'm afraid we're "stuck" with allowing chaplains of various faiths, unless we want to discard or amend the US Constitution.

 

[FireDragon76]

Does it? This was once a Christian nation, still rooted in the moralistic teachings of Christianity. Can the chaplain put aside his beliefs for the female soldiers or the LBGT soldiers?

He would have to, to advance to where he was. In fact conservative Christians have been having the same dilemma over that issue, with some denominations threatening to just not send clergy into the military chaplaincy because they might have to deal with these situations.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

.

 

[Shiloh Raven]

Never mind.

 

[RDKirk]

Do you understand the religion of Islam, and the significance of the descendants of Ishmael in regards to Isaac's descendants as stated in Genesis?

Actually, individual Muslims have a lot more leeway in that aspect than you think. Pure Islam does not have a clerical hierarchy--each head of household may determine for himself how to submit to Allah, as long as he follows the Five Pillars.

 

[RDKirk]

That's more a myth than reality. The earliest English colonies in the US were in Virginia and they were looking to make money as a commercial enterprise. Religious idealism was only part of early America, and was by no means the only reason that people came here.

What is ironic is that those who specifically came to America to escape religious persecution were the "Separatists" who believed in the separation of Church and State. They were being persecuted in Europe for that particular belief.

 

[RDKirk]

Since you have no basis in which to make your points relevant let me give you some perspective. This Sunday you'll have a new priest at your church. You are confined to only that church and that priest and must rely on him for your spiritual needs. This is the role of a chaplain in a setting such as a remote area of Afghanistan.

No, it's not. As I said before, you don't understand how the military chaplaincy works.

There are certain circumstances in which one religion may allow non-believing (of their own religion) chaplains to carry out some duties by military necessity, but not in others. The military does what it can. But that has always been the case. For instance, it is not always possible to have a Roman Catholic chaplain present at a Catholic soldier's death to administer last rites. Most religions have already determined how to work around such difficulties, because those kinds of difficulties have always existed.

But where there are religious tasks that Religion A states "anyone can do this task," and Religion B does not state, "You are not permitted to do that that Religion A task," then chaplains of Religion B will perform those tasks for soldiers of Religion A.

 

[RDKirk]

we are at war with Islam, Islam has been at war with all non-muslims since it founding, if wasn't for the brave Christians who fought at the battle of Kosovo, the Battle of the Gates of Vienna, who liberated the Holy Land in the 10th century, or the brave man Charles Martel who expell all Muslim's from Europe, or the brave Russians who fought the Turkish, and Tatar Yokes, the Heroic Marines who Thomas Jefferson sent to punish the Islamic barbery pirates, you all would be Muslim now with 5 wives, one of the wives being a donkey probably, and the other wives being 9 year olds. Democrats only want war with Christians, hench their recent hostility to Russia.

And yet, the nation of Sengal--which is 90% Sufi Muslim--peacefully elected a Catholic president and retained him for 20 years.

 

[Orthodoxjay1]

And yet, the nation of Sengal--which is 90% Sufi Muslim--peacefully elected a Catholic president and retained him for 20 years.

Sufis are a minority in the Islamic world, compared to the 12ers, Deobandis and the Salafists/Whabbis. We're talking a Suicidal Cult of radicals, the size of most modern nations, except maybe India or China.

 

[RDKirk]

Sufis are a minority in the Islamic world, compared to the 12ers, Deobandis and the Salafists/Whabbis. We're talking a Suicidal Cult of radicals, the size of most modern nations, except maybe India or China.

But it also means your broad-brushed diatribe is false.

And, btw, those radical groups are actually the minority of all Muslims. Not a tiny minority, and even a minority of such a large group is a large absolute number, but they are a minority. Remember that most Muslims are Indians or Indonesians, and those are not terrorism-exporting radicals.

 

[Orthodoxjay1]

But it also means your broad-brushed diatribe is false.

Not false at all, Islam been at war with non Muslim's since the 7th century, they use taaqiya to fool the "infidel" and they learned to weaponize the womb to build up a army of Jihadists.

Chechynea- war against Russian Orthodox Christians, where we saw them cowardly kill a bunch of school children after taking them hostage

Kashmir-Jihad against Hindus, and

Pakistan -Deobandi, and Salafists Jihad against Shiites, Christians, Hindus, Sufis, Ahmadiyya, etc.

Iraq - both Sunnis, and Shiites wage jihad against Christians, and Kurds, then on each other

Palestine/Israel - Islamo-marxist jihad against Jews, and displaced their Palestinian Christians due to the rise of Hamas, and Sharia law

Egypt -Jihad against civil society, and the native Coptic Christians, which didn't just just start recently towards the Native Christian Copts, but have risen to epic proportions.

Xijiang Province in China - Urguy Islamist Jihad against ethnic Chinese

Southern Philliphines - Moro Islamic Jihad against the Catholic filipinos

East Timor - Indonesiab Islamic Genocide of Catholic East Timorese

Syria - two Muslim Brotherhood led terrorist insurgencies, the first one between 1976-1982, then the latest 2011-present, the Sunni fanatics targeting Armenians, Assyrians, Eastern Orthodox Christians, Melkites, Catholics, Syriac Catholics, Syriac Orthodox, Shiites, Druez, Alawites, etc.

Lebanon - A colation of leftist, and Islamist's led by the PLO, Amal, Hezbollah, PLF, Lebanese Communist Party, the Drug, PSP wage a war of extermination against the Lebanese Christians, this only happened because the Palestinian (mainly Sunnis) we're foolishly welcomed, once the Muslim's got big numbers, the civil war started, of course Israel getting involved complicated matters.

Yemen - Jihad between Sunnis affiliated with ISIS, the Muslim Brotherhood, and Al Qaeda, and the anti-american,anti-christian Huthis backed by Iran, and Hezbollah.

Kosovo -the islamo-marxist, Al Qaeda affiliated KLA wage a terror campaign against the native Serbs, and NATO backs the terror campaign, and the Serbian Orthodox holy land is stolen by Albanian Muslims in a huge recorded act of Iconoclasm.

Burma - Rohingya havr been waging a separatists insurgency, recently recieved jihad training in Pakistan, and tied to Al Qaeda, Buddhist fight back, then called terrorists by the Obama regime, and dhimmis around the globe.


Should I go on? Religion of peace?

 

[RDKirk]

Not false at all, Islam been at war with non Muslim's since the 7th century, they use taaqiya to fool the "infidel" and they learned to weaponize the womb to build up a army of Jihadists.

The point I made that you missed is, as I've said, that the head of a Muslim household is the person who defines for his own household how Islam is to be practiced. He is not bound to define "jihad" as do Salafis.

That person can be like a Sufi and interpret "jihad" as the inner struggle to be holy. The evidence of a Muslim who has spent a long, successful career as a military chaplain already serving soldiers of every religion (and probably some atheists) is that he is not a Salafi.

 

[USincognito]

Do you honestly find no difference between the two? Would you have asked our grandfather's to serve with a Japanese officer, and be 'blessed' by them before battle? Maybe you need to study your history and the Bible more before your moralistic worldview dictate your judgement in the matter.

Ah, you think that the U.S. is at war with Islam.

 

[USincognito]

I've already served, but thank you. It's not the religious liberty I'm against, our country was founded by Christians escaping religious persecution. The role of the chaplain is significant, and as an officer they have authority. How is a Muslim chaplain going to be able to both uphold the duties of his position while adhering to the teachings of their religion?

Plymouth Colony =/= our country.

 

[Winken]

I think the key here is that we Christians are called to evangelize, to witness, to proclaim the Good News of Salvation by Grace through Faith. We obviously aren't that "energetic" about it anymore. Fewer folks are attending church services. I note that several established buildings locally are now vacant or are being used for other purposes. Fewer folks speak up when challenged about their faith. How many of us respond to a cashier at Walmart with "God bless you"? How many of us, if asked about our faith or "religion" would joyfully respond? If we know in advance that the questioner is a Muslim or atheist or Buddhist or whatever else non-Christian, how many of us would smile, extend a hand for a handshake and state, "I'm a Christian. May I tell you about my Savior?"

So what do we do? We participate in the denial of Christianity as the only way to life eternal by "being nice" to those who increasingly undermine it. The authentic Christian "pie' in the United States is growing smaller day by day. It has virtually vanished elsewhere. (underline "authentic").

I don't want to get into a "founding fathers" discussion! I do want to note that we were once a nation of Christians; that "separation of church and state" originally meant "separation of church FROM state. "State" could not dictate a federally recognized Christian standard, as in Great Britain.

p.s. When I entered the military I was offered a Bible. The question posed was "Catholic or Protestant?"

 

[USincognito]

I was going to mention Jamestown, and the fact the "Pilgrims" were, like, 200 years before the idea of America a a country had even been thought of, but you guys are awfully wedded to your national narrative, and pointing out inconvenient historical facts seemed likely to derail the thread.

Feel free to make what you will of the fact that an Australian knows more about your colonial history than many of your countrymen, though.

Hey now, if it weren't for us and the Crown losing Georgia there wouldn't be an Australia.*

 

[USincognito]

Was I referring to the country or the continent? Nice try.

Either way you would be wrong. Did you miss where Armoured referenced Jamestown?