you mean half Scripture, and then reason and logic based on half of what is there.
Is that your opinion or does your church state that dogmatically? That's the problem. "Unless you actually have stuff" from a church council "it's simply your own hyperbole and more eisegesis."
See, both can play that game. But why not use the brains God gave us and sort it out?
nice, and what actual Russian sources from that time do you have? because folks say that the Titanic was bombed. unless you actually have stuff from Russia at the time, it's simply your own hyperbole and more eisegesis.
Like the "Icon of Luke?" People can say a lot of things about faith and facts, but, unless you have a dogmatic statement from your church concerning any issue we discuss...it's just your opinion.
that is not the definition of idolatry. so since what you just wrote here is not actually said in Scripture anywhere, that makes this claim of yours which you have said, an idol.
Sorry Matty you must've missed this.
Deut. 12;
v. 1.-2 destroy Temples belonging to false religion
v. 4-19 worship is prescribed where God reveals His name in
the Tabernacle
v. 4. You shall not worship the Lord your God in
that way, your own way
v.8 You shall not do according to all that we are doing here today, everyone doing whatever is right in his own eyes,
v. 20-21 the revealed will of God regulates worship
v. 29-21 we are not to be influenced by culture (Icons were cultural in the Eastern Empire and used by Greek Pagans)
v.31 You shall not worship the Lord your God in that way, for every abominable thing that the Lord hates they have done for their gods, for they even burn their sons and their daughters in the fire to their gods.
v. 32 Everything that I command you, you shall be careful to do. You shall not add to it or take from it.
Trinity is not found in Scripture anywhere, so since that is not commanded in revelation as you are narrowly and very personally defining it, that must be idolatry too.
Yes, the Trinity is found in scripture. It's a scriptural idea.
funny, because He commanded the Jews to put images up in the place He commanded them to worship Him.
This goes to point.
Deut. 12;
v. 1.-2 destroy Temples belonging to false religion
v. 4-19 worship is prescribed where God reveals His name in
the Tabernacle
v. 4. You shall not worship the Lord your God in
that way, your own way
v.8 You shall not do according to all that we are doing here today, everyone doing whatever is right in his own eyes,
v. 20-21 the revealed will of God regulates worship
v. 29-21 we are not to be influenced by culture (Icons were cultural in the Eastern Empire and used by Greek Pagans)
v.31 You shall not worship the Lord your God in that way, for every abominable thing that the Lord hates they have done for their gods, for they even burn their sons and their daughters in the fire to their gods.
v. 32
Everything that I command you, you shall be careful to do. You shall not add to it or take from it.
while true, but you presuppose that you worship in truth, because you presuppose you read Scripture in truth, which others must accept prior to any claim you have that follows.
No, others are free to do as they like. I am well within the stream of Western catholicism, both historically and biblically. I know you folks don't like Augustine but he is a great church father even if you deny his scriptural teaching.
yes, but you have yet to show that you are rightly defining the Biblical norm, aside to say that you are.
You can think, right? You can read? You can draw conclusions? That's how you became convinced that the Eastern Orthodox church was the true church?
Your ultimate authority really boils down to
you and your understanding of the Christian faith. You are defining what you want to believe by aligning with the Eastern Orthodox denomination.
you assume that what we are doing is not what God has commanded.
Demonstrate that God commanded the use of Icons or the canonization of Seraphim please for the readers.
you are forgetting that St Paul commands us to maintain the oral tradition. just because it was not clearly written in Scripture, that does not mean it was not commanded by God. even though images in His place of worship IS commanded by God.
I believe you are using "half Scripture, and then reason and logic based on half of what is there." Jesus said, “And why do you break the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition?"
you assume you have not added to or taken away from what God commanded us.
Oh no, I acknowledge that I've added and taken away from God's commands! I've made that point several times in this thread that Icons become idols. Scripture insists that perfect theology is impossible...I'm not a Gnostic, but a Christian.
you also assume that only what is clearly in Scripture as you read it is the standard, which is also not written in Scripture.
I've demonstrated with sources that mankind is fallen, sinful and can turn anything into an idol. I've shown how Icons became a "tradition" by the State and not the church forcing it's members to accept the practice.
You are ignoring that.
your line of argumentation is the same that Richard Dawkins uses to try to discredit Christianity.
That was just a cheap swipe. I'll take it on the chin.
Yours in the Lord,
jm