History of Icons

[Ignatius21]

I'm kind of bummed that this thread more or less "up and died."

I've always seen threads like these derail and then end, when the topic is brought back to an examination of the underlying assumptions behind someone's biblical interpretations.

 

[Sakuramochi]

From all I've read--and I ain't no expert!--I think you've fairly well nailed it. I would agree, it's at least reasonable, to trace the practices of venerating icons, back to the veneration of relics of saints. Evidence is sparse about exactly how images were used in the early years. But it's abundant that they held vigils and liturgies at the graves of martyrs, collected their personal effects, etc. Your quote of Polycarp is illustrative.

Thanks for chiming in

No prob, anytime

 

[buzuxi02]

This is quite true. The origins for praying to the saints and venerating icons is from the martyrs. The placing of relics into the altar is vaguely referenced to in Revelation 6.9 The first mention of an artifact coming from the body of a saint with healing properties is that of handkerchiefs of Paul found in Acts 19.12.

By the second century drawings appear in the catacombs. The first mention of a miraculous icon is in the Doctrine of Addai in 400AD. It is about the image of Edessa.

 

[JM]

Last Friday I talked with a Russian Orthodox priest who embodied the meaning of being a follower of Christ and feel thoroughly rebuked. I was seeking a place to pray and, as I’m sure you know it was Bright Week, came to a Russian Orthodox church just in time for the Divine Liturgy. After the service the priest introduced himself to me and we talked. I hope to continue dialoguing with him via email.

I just wanted to apologize to everyone for being so aggressive and abrasive in our exchanges.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

 

[ArmyMatt]

it happens brother, to all of us. forgive me as well for any aggressive/stubborn/etc responses I may have had.

great news you are talking to him. you should keep us in the loop how it goes!

Christ is risen!

 

[JM]

http://www.christianforums.com/t7877042/

 

[tapi]

Glory to God for your spiritually beneficial visit. May He also heal your son, and help for a fast and successful recovery.

May God bless you and keep you.

 

[JeremiahsBulldog]

At the end of my posts #114 and #115, I promised to write about icons in the New Testament. Sorry about the long delay. Here is the short answer:

Mt 22:15 -22 ; Mk 12: 13 - 17; and Lu 20: 20 - 26. In these passages, Christ responds to a question about taxes by asking who's image and inscription is on the money. The last part of His reply implies a distinction between sacred and secular images.

St. John of Damascus argued that this was Christ giving His approval to icons.

PS

My "Jeremiahsbulldog" profile was recently deleted for some reason. Hence, I had to return to my older "theophilite" profile.

More details in my signature, below.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Welcome back and good info!

 

[JM]

At the end of my posts #114 and #115, I promised to write about icons in the New Testament. Sorry about the long delay. Here is the short answer:

Mt 22:15 -22 ; Mk 12: 13 - 17; and Lu 20: 20 - 26. In these passages, Christ responds to a question about taxes by asking who's image and inscription is on the money. The last part of His reply implies a distinction between sacred and secular images.

St. John of Damascus argued that this was Christ giving His approval to icons.

PS

My "Jeremiahsbulldog" profile was recently deleted for some reason. Hence, I had to return to my older "theophilite" profile.

More details in my signature, below.

Thank you. Would you have a link to the work of John of Damascus? I'm interested in how he viewed the passages you sited above.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

 

[tapi]

http://legacy.fordham.edu/halsall/basis/johndamascus-images.asp

Thank you. Would you have a link to the work of John of Damascus? I'm interested in how he viewed the passages you sited above.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

 

[JM]

Thank you tapi.

I'll have a look at it tonight.

 

[JeremiahsBulldog]

Thank you. Would you have a link to the work of John of Damascus? I'm interested in how he viewed the passages you sited above.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

I looked again, and what I found is St. John's Apologia against Those who Decry the Holy Images, part II. Go down to page 70, in the middle of the page, the line that begins, "He answered them:".

 

[JM]

Excellent example of eisegesis! Thank you.

 

[truefiction1]

I'm curious, JM, about your spiritual reaction to the icon that I've chosen to be my CF avatar.

 

[ArmyMatt]

St John is a master when it comes to that kinda stuff

 

[prodromos]

St John is a master when it comes to that kinda stuff

"eisegesis"?

 

[ArmyMatt]

oh, haha, I thought it was exegesis. now that I just looked up eisegesis, I would love to see any evidence that supports that is what St John was doing.

 

[JM]

I'm curious, JM, about your spiritual reaction to the icon that I've chosen to be my CF avatar.

View attachment 187879

The first reaction is that icons are beautiful! I still own icons and they hang on the wall in my study, however, I also am quickly reminded that if used in a religious sense they will quickly become idols.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

 

[truefiction1]

The first reaction is that icons are beautiful! I still own icons and they hang on the wall in my study, however, I also am quickly reminded that if used in a religious sense they will quickly become idols.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

Used in a religious sense... Do you consider using the fragrant oil that miraculously streams from this particular icon (the miraculous myrrh streaming icon of Iveron) for the purpose of anointing believers for potential healing of diseases to be "using the icon in a religious sense"? When a person who is anointed with the oil from the icon is healed of a serious, incurable disease, is it considered religious use if we give glory to God on account of it? Or is this idolatry?