Avoiding the Mark of the beast

[NothingIsImpossible]

From my understanding the mark is not some physical thing (like a chip). Its a "did you do this" thing. If you fall for the anti-christ, then you have the mark. As in your hearts so blind you didn't realize he was the anti-christ.

Some I know say "I won't fall for him because I'm a good christian!". Well that doesn't always mean anything. I've seen good christians for for false people before. To me I look for someone whos from the east that the world seems to love and I stay away from that person. Though I haven't seen anyone like that. Most say he will come from the "middle east". Not sure if thats true or not. Because in the bible israel was the middle of the planet so to speak. To its east was asia, to its west europe. And on the other side of the planet america. Unless we are the "very far east". Who knows.

For all I know Trump is the beast. Or Obama. Pretty much everyone thinks someone is the beast at one point or another. I think it will happen in my life time though.

 

[CrystalDragon]

I say we can't be so sure, every generation has thought the end times would come in their lifetime and has sought reasons for it. World hasn't ended yet.

 

[Alawishis]

Which comment?

When you said, "You're a baby Christian as far as baby Christians go."

 

[Bible2+]

stephen583 said in post 174:

In Bible symbolism, the right hand is figuratively used to represent the work of someone's hands. Likewise, the forehead refers to thought, or belief.

Are you thinking of verses like Exodus 13:9,16? If so, note that nothing requires that Exodus 13:9,16 was not meant to be taking literally. For just as Orthodox Jews interpret Deuteronomy 6:9 and Deuteronomy 11:20 literally, and so place mezuzahs (little boxes containing scripture) on their doorposts, so Orthodox Jews interpret Exodus 13:9,16, Deuteronomy 6:8, and Deuteronomy 11:18 literally, and so sometimes tie phylacteries (little boxes containing scripture) on their forehead and arm.

The mark of the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") will similarly be literally, visibly placed on the forehead or hand (Revelation 13:16), but probably by scarification. Compare how the forbidden "cuttings" in Leviticus 19:28 and Leviticus 21:5b were literal, visible marks, applied by scarification. And the "cuttings" on the hands in Jeremiah 48:37 referred to scarification marks. And the marks of Jesus on Paul's body (Galatians 6:17) were literal, visible marks (i.e. scars from persecution). And the future mark of God's name on obedient believers will be a literal, visible mark miraculously "written" on their forehead (Revelation 22:4, Revelation 3:12).

In Exodus 13:16, the original Hebrew word (towphaphah: H2903) translated as "frontlets" means "a fillet for the forehead" (Strong's Hebrew Dictionary). Here a "fillet" means "a ribbon or narrow strip of material used esp. as a headband" (Webster's). So in Exodus 13:16, "frontlets" can refer to something literally tied onto the forehead, in this case a phylactery (cf. Matthew 23:5), which is "one of two small square leather boxes containing slips inscribed with scriptural passages and traditionally worn on the left arm and on the [fore] head by Jewish men during morning weekday prayers" (Webster's).

It is curious that inscribed on the leather box on the forehead is the Hebrew letter Shin, which looks somewhat like a W, or 3 Hebrew letter Vav's in a row. A Vav looks somewhat like a 7, but it represents the number 6. So three Vav's in a row would represent 6 - 6 - 6. So placing the Hebrew letter Shin on the forehead would be similar to placing 666 on the forehead. This is not to say that this is in any way the intention of those who wear a forehead phylactery, for they instead see the three parts of Shin as being somehow an emblem of YHWH God. But it is curious that the future Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast"), who will utterly revile YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36), will place his own emblem on people's foreheads (probably by scarification) which will be so similar to what the Jews consider to be an emblem of YHWH.

If the three parts of the Hebrew letter Shin are indeed an emblem of YHWH, Christians would interpret this as referring to YHWH as the Trinity. And the Antichrist's counterfeit emblem would be interpreted as including reference to what is sometimes called "the Unholy Trinity", which consists of Lucifer/Satan (the dragon), and the future Antichrist, and the future False Prophet (Revelation 16:13, Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 19:20 to 20:3).

stephen583 said in post 174:

Also, there's nothing in the Revelation Prophecy that says the "mark" is permanent, or irremovable once it has been taken.

Our salvation will be taken away if we worship the Antichrist and his image, and by our own volition receive his mark on our right hand or forehead (Revelation 14:9-12). In the original Greek, "receive" in Revelation 14:9 is in the active voice, not the passive voice. If the mark is forced on us against our will, such as through scarification while we are under restraints, or while we are passed out on forcibly-administered drugs or after a beating or torture session, then after we are released or regain our consciousness, as soon as it is possible for us to do so we should formally renounce and reject the mark verbally to God, and also completely deface the mark physically, such as with further scarification (by our own hand) in the sign of the Cross of Jesus Christ, placed over the mark of the Antichrist. And we could also write "YHWH" over the mark with a permanent marker, to make our true loyalty clear to all.

 

[Bible2+]

Alawishis said in post 176:

666 is not "the mark of the beast" it's "the number of the beast" there is a difference.

That's right, although the mark of the beast can consist of his number (Revelation 13:17, Revelation 15:2).

Regarding the 666 in Revelation 13:17c-18, it refers to the number six hundred and sixty-six, the "number of the name" of the individual man who is the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast"). The number of a name (Revelation 13:17c-18, Revelation 15:2) is determined by employing the ancient method of gematria, by which numerical values are assigned to the letters of any alphabet as follows: The first nine letters are 1 through 9, the next nine letters are 10 through 90 (counting by tens), and the rest of the letters are 100, 200, 300, etc., to the end of the alphabet. In Revelation 13:18, the "counting", the adding up, of the gematrial number of the Antichrist's name should be done in the same way that the gematrial numerical values of the three Greek letters (Chi, Xi, and Stigma) at the end of Revelation 13:18 (in the original Greek Textus Receptus) are added up to arrive at the number six hundred and sixty-six.

The numerical values of the letters of the ancient Greek alphabet (including the three obsolete letters of Stigma, Qoppa, and Sampi) were as follows: Alpha = 1, Beta = 2, Gamma = 3, Delta = 4, Epsilon = 5, Stigma = 6, Zeta = 7, Eta = 8, Theta = 9, Iota = 10, Kappa = 20, Lambda = 30, Mu = 40, Nu = 50, Xi = 60, Omikron = 70, Pi = 80, Qoppa = 90, Rho = 100, Sigma = 200, Tau = 300, Upsilon = 400, Phi = 500, Chi = 600, Psi = 700, Omega = 800, Sampi = 900.

Just as the numerical values of Chi, Xi, and Stigma at the end of Revelation 13:18 (in the Textus Receptus) add up to 666, so the numerical values of the letters in the Antichrist's name will add up to 666 (Revelation 13:17c-18). John used the Greek alphabet because it was the most common one used by believers when the book of Revelation was written. Today, the English alphabet is the most common one used by believers, insofar as English is the current lingua franca of the world. So the Antichrist's name will most likely add up to 666 in the English alphabet. The purpose of Revelation 13:17c-18 is to facilitate for believers, not to make difficult for them, the identification of a certain man as possibly being the Antichrist. If the letters in his name had to be transliterated into the Greek alphabet, this would vitiate this purpose, for almost all believers today would not know how to properly perform this transliteration, and so different believers would come up with different transliterations, and so would come up with different gematrial numbers for the name of the man in question.

If believers think that someone is the Antichrist, they need to check and make sure that his name adds up to 666 in gematria (Revelation 13:17c-18). If it does not, then he is not the Antichrist. If it does, then he could be, and they need to be especially wary of him and not be taken in by any deceptive charisma, intelligence, or amazing deeds which he might display. But even if someone's name does add up to 666, this does not mean that he is definitely the Antichrist. For just by chance there could be more than one person in the world whose name adds up to 666. The Antichrist also has to come from a country the territory of which used to be part of one of the four Diadochian Greek kingdoms which succeeded Alexander the Great (Daniel 8:8-9,21-25). These kingdoms stretched from Greece over to Iran, and down into Egypt. So the Antichrist could come from the Middle East. He could be an Arab who will come from Lebanon, from the modern city of Tyre (Ezekiel 28:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:4), and have a name like (for example) "Nabil Abdullah Falakal al-Hakim", which adds up to 666.

But if a man from the Middle East has a name which adds up to 666, even this does not assure that he is the Antichrist. For he also has to sit (at least one time) in a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem and proclaim himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4, Daniel 11:31,36, Matthew 24:15, Revelation 11:1-2). Once he does that, there will not be any more room for doubt over whether or not he is the Antichrist; his identity will have been definitely revealed (2 Thessalonians 2:3b-4).

The gematrial numerical values of the letters of the English alphabet are: A=1, B=2, C=3, D=4, E=5, F=6, G=7, H=8, I=9, J=10, K=20, L=30, M=40, N=50, O=60, P=70, Q=80, R=90, S=100, T=200, U=300, V=400, W=500, X=600, Y=700, Z=800. The way that the gematrial number of a name is "counted" (Revelation 13:17c-18), is added up, is simply by adding up the gematrial numerical values of all the letters in that name. So, for example, the number of the name "John Mark Smith" is 636, because: J=10, O=60, H=8, N=50, M=40, A=1, R=90, K=20, S=100, M=40, I=9, T=200, H=8. Total = 636. The Antichrist's name will add up to 666 (Revelation 13:17c-18).

Alawishis said in post 176:

Ten horns of the terrible beast do not fit the Greek empire or Ottoman.

That's right.

For in Daniel 7, the first three beasts (Daniel 7:3-6) represent the ancient empires of Babylon (lion), Medo-Persia (bear), and Greece (leopard). And the 4th, "terrible", beast (Daniel 7:7), or 4th "king"/"kingdom" (Daniel 7:17,23), represents the ancient Roman empire. And the 10 horns/kings which come out of it (Daniel 7:7,24) could represent 10 major kingdoms/nations today which came out the former territory of the Roman empire, which consisted not only of Western Europe, but also the Middle East and North Africa. These 10 nations could be Germany, the U.K., France, Italy, Spain, Turkey, Egypt, Iraq, Algeria, and Syria. The 10 part-iron/part-clay toes of Daniel 2:42 could represent the same thing as the 10 horns of Daniel 7:7. The Europeans could be the iron, and the Arabs and Turks could be the clay. In Daniel 2:43, the inability of the iron to mix with the clay could represent how, for example, there are many Turks living in Germany, but they remain separated in ghettoes within German cities. Similarly, there are many Arab Algerians living in France, but they remain separated in ghettoes within French cities.

But despite this social separation, which could endure indefinitely, the people of Western Europe on the one hand and the people of the Middle East and North Africa on the other could still one day put aside their political separation and become united into one federation. For Daniel 2:42 refers to the 10 as a singular "kingdom". The person who will bring this about could be the Antichrist.

The arising of the "little" horn (Daniel 7:8, Daniel 8:9), which is "diverse" from the 10 major nations (Daniel 7:24), could mean that the Antichrist will arise from a little country. And the little horn arising from "among" the 10 major nations (Daniel 7:8) could mean that the Antichrist's country's territory used to be part of the Roman empire. And before that, it was part of one of the four Diadochian Greek kingdoms which succeeded the Greek empire of Alexander the Great (Daniel 8:8-9,21-25). The territory of these four kingdoms stretched from Greece over to Iran, and down into Egypt. So (again) the Antichrist could come from the Middle East. He could be an Arab who will come from the little country of Lebanon, from the modern city of Tyre (Ezekiel 28:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:4).

The Antichrist could start out by claiming to be a Baathist. After becoming the leader of Lebanon, he could peacefully gain control of a Baathist federation of three of the 10 major nations (Daniel 7:24): Egypt, "toward the south" of Lebanon (Daniel 8:9), and Iraq and Syria, "toward the east" of Lebanon (Daniel 8:9). This federation could also include the minor nation of a United Palestine, i.e. a defeated Israel, "the pleasant land" (Daniel 8:9).

This Baathist federation could be put together in the future by an Iraqi Baathist General who could completely defeat and occupy Israel and Egypt with a huge Iraqi Army (Daniel 11:15-17; in verse 17 the original Hebrew word translated as "daughter" is "bath"), but who could then mysteriously disappear (Daniel 11:19) shortly before the Antichrist arises on the world stage (Daniel 11:21-45). Years later, when the Antichrist gains control of all 10 of the major nations, he could appoint kings over them (Revelation 17:12) who will defer to him (Revelation 17:13), like when Napoleon gained control of different nations, he appointed kings over them who would defer to him.

 

[Bible2+]

Dave Watchman said in post 180:

Some could be tricked, some could even be given a strong delusion to believe the lie.

That's right.

For the Antichrist will have a False Prophet who will work amazing miracles (2 Thessalonians 2:9b) by which people will be deceived (Revelation 13:12-14, Revelation 19:20, cf. Matthew 24:24). And God will send strong delusion on unrepentant people so that they will believe "the" lie (2 Thessalonians 2:11-12; in the original Greek, there is a "the" before "lie"), which could be the antichrist lie which has been around since the 1st century AD (2 John 1:7; 1 John 4:3; 2 Thessalonians 2:7a), and which in our future will deceive the world into consciously and openly worshipping both Lucifer (Satan) the dragon and the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), the man of sin (2 Thessalonians 2:3-9), as God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). The antichrist lie denies that Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22), denies that Jesus is the human/divine Son of God (1 John 2:22b), and denies that Christ is in the flesh (2 John 1:7), which denial is one of the key doctrines of Gnosticism.

Gnosticism is an ancient religious movement which says that everything material is inherently evil, while only that which is pure spirit can be good. Gnosticism teaches that all humans used to be pure spirit and dwelling in bliss from all eternity in a purely-spiritual heaven, called the "Pleroma", until by some mishap, humanity fell into the material universe and became trapped in fleshly bodies. Gnosticism reviles YHWH, the God of Biblical Christians, and the Creator of the material universe and of all fleshly bodies, as an evil, subordinate deity, a "Demiurge", who is keeping humans imprisoned and suffering in fleshly bodies and in the material universe.

Gnosticism became one of the main enemies of the early church, and it will become the greatest enemy of the church during the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. For the Antichrist will be a Gnostic. He will teach the Gnostic/antichrist lie that Christ isn't in the flesh (1 John 4:3). And the Antichrist, like the Gnostics, will utterly revile YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36). The Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") will instead bring the world into the conscious and open worship of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) and himself (Revelation 13:4,8, Revelation 12:9).

Gnosticism has some core teachings in common with the major religions of Buddhism and Hinduism:

1. The material realm is unreal and evil. (Both Buddhism and Gnosticism got this mistaken idea, originally called "Maya", from Hinduism.)

2. People must strive to escape the material realm completely, and enter a state which is wholly non-physical (Parinirvana in Buddhism, the Pleroma in Gnosticism). Buddhism and Gnosticism got this mistaken idea, originally called "Brahman", from Hinduism.

3. The way for people to get free from their imprisonment within the material realm is through their minds attaining a certain level of enlightenment (Nirvana in Buddhism, Gnosis in Gnosticism). Buddhism and Gnosticism got this mistaken idea, originally called "Moksha", from Hinduism.

4. The way for their minds to attain this certain level of enlightenment is through following the way of the Serpent (one legend of Buddhism says that the Buddha was given the true Buddhism by the King of the Serpents; and in Gnosticism, Gnosis comes from the Christ/the Serpent). Both Buddhism and Gnosticism got this mistaken idea of the enlightening serpent, originally called "Kundalini", from Hinduism. (Regarding the serpent in Genesis 3, Gnostics see him as the good guy, just as they see YHWH as the bad guy.)

The Bible contradicts each of the 4 points above:

1. The material realm is real, and was created by God as something very good (Genesis 1:31). God himself is in the flesh (John 1:1,14, Luke 24:39), and remains wholly without sin (Hebrews 4:15). So there is nothing evil about matter in itself.

2. People must strive to attain to a resurrection (Philippians 3:11), in an immortal human body of flesh and bones, like the immortal human body of flesh and bones that Jesus Christ obtained at his resurrection on the 3rd day after his death (Luke 24:39,46; 1 Corinthians 15:3-4,21-23,51-53, Philippians 3:21, Romans 8:23-25), and in which he will remain forever as believers' fully-human mediator/high priest (1 Timothy 2:5, Hebrews 2:16-17, Hebrews 7:24-26). His tomb is empty (Matthew 28:6), and when he returns, he will show the scars of the Crucifixion on his body (Zechariah 13:6, Zechariah 12:10-14).

3. Resurrected people who have been truly enlightened/illuminated (Ephesians 1:18, Hebrews 10:32) by Jesus Christ (John 14:6-7, John 8:32, John 3:36) will remain in the material realm (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29), ultimately living on a new earth with God (Revelation 21:1-4).

4. The Serpent, Satan/Lucifer, is the deceiver of the whole world (Revelation 12:9).

Dave Watchman said in post 180:

God's People can never be tricked into taking the mark of the beast, only those individuals who's names have NOT been written in the Lamb's Book of life.

Note that any saved person can ultimately have his name blotted out of the book of life (Revelation 3:5), he can ultimately lose his salvation and be cast into the 2nd death of the lake of fire (Revelation 2:11, Revelation 20:14-15), if he does not overcome to the end (Revelation 3:5, Revelation 2:11, Revelation 2:26, Hebrews 6:11-12, Hebrews 3:6,12,14, Matthew 24:9-13).

Revelation 3:5, 1 John 5:4-5, 1 John 2:13-14 and 1 John 4:4 do not contradict this, for these verses do not give any assurance that every saved person will overcome to the end. All that the 1 John verses give assurance of is that believers can presently be overcomers. And all that Revelation 3:5, Revelation 2:11, and Revelation 2:26 give assurance of is that those believers who do overcome to the end will not have their names blotted out of the book of life, and will not be cast into the lake of fire.

An example of saved people "overcoming" (Greek: nikao, G3528) (Revelation 3:5) or "getting the victory" (nikao) (Revelation 15:2) to the end is found in Revelation 15:2, which refers to saved people who will be willing to be killed by the Antichrist instead of worshipping him to save their lives during the future worldwide persecution against Biblical Christians (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

Christians will be able to spiritually overcome the Antichrist and Satan by not loving their lives to the death (Revelation 12:11). But it is also possible for Christians to fail to overcome, and so in the end to lose their salvation (Revelation 3:5, Revelation 2:11), if they are fearful (Revelation 21:7-8) of being tortured or killed (Matthew 10:28, Revelation 2:10), to the point where they will wrongly employ their free will to renounce Jesus Christ and the gospel, to commit apostasy (Hebrews 6:4-8, John 15:6), in order to keep from getting tortured and killed (Mark 8:35-38; 2 Timothy 2:12, Matthew 24:9-13, Matthew 13:21, Luke 8:13).

 

[Bible2+]

NothingIsImpossible said in post 181:

For all I know Trump is the beast.

Note that Trump is not the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast"), because the gematrial "number of the name" of the person who is the Antichrist is 666 (Revelation 13:17c-18, Revelation 15:2), while the gematrial number of the name "Donald Trump" is 849:

D=4, O=60, N=50, A=1, L=30, D=4, T=200, R=90, U=300, M=40, P=70. Total = 849.

NothingIsImpossible said in post 181:

Or Obama.

Note that Obama is not the Antichrist, because the gematrial number of the name "Barack Hussein Obama" is 793:

B=2, A=1, R=90, A=1, C=3, K=20, H=8, U=300, S=100, S=100, E=5, I=9, N=50, O=60, B=2, A=1, M=40, A=1. Total = 793.

NothingIsImpossible said in post 181:

I think it will happen in my life time though.

That could be right.

For Matthew 24:34 could mean that the temporal generation which would see the 1948 AD reestablishment of Israel, which could be symbolized by the rebudding of the fig tree (Matthew 24:32-34; cf. Matthew 21:19,43, Hosea 9:10, Joel 1:6-7, Luke 13:6-9), will not pass, i.e. will not die off completely, until the future tribulation and 2nd coming of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 19 are fulfilled. A temporal generation may not pass until 70 or 80 years (Psalms 90:10), or 120 years (Genesis 6:3).

This does not require that the 2nd coming will occur right before, like one year before, that generation will pass: i.e. 69, or 79, or 119 years after 1948: in 2017, 2027, or 2067. And if the tribulation which will immediately precede the 2nd coming and rapture (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6) will last 7 years (Daniel 9:27), the tribulation's first year did not have to be in 2011, and will not have to be in 2021 or 2061, but could be in a future year (e.g. 2020) earlier than 2021.

Matthew 24:34 could also include the meaning that the figurative, all-times generation of the elect (Matthew 24:22, Luke 16:8b; 1 Peter 2:9, Colossians 3:12; 1 Thessalonians 1:4) will not pass away from the earth during the future tribulation of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 18, but that some of the elect will survive (Matthew 24:22) until Jesus' 2nd coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53), immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

 

[2404]

The mark of the beast won't scare you or anyone else.
It is subtle and the road is paved all the way.
In a nut she'll, the mark of the beast is man led religion.

 

[jhillaire84]

Like I said at first, I'm paranoid. I want to be 100% sure i don't get this mark. I'm afraid because I read this post of someone theorising about how the devil will speak to people to deceive them and it popped into my head "that sounds nice" because I was looking at the part about people going to heaven and eternal bliss then I realised it was SATAN'S eternal bliss and saying he could overthrow God and I'm scared I don't support the devil I just got misled for a second.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This me super paranoid. Is it physical? Is it not? If the devil tricks me, even if it's only for a second to think evilly, am I doomed? How can I be sure I don't have the mark?

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

From what I understand people doing weird calculations to get 666 or whatever is considering unbiblical and is christians trying to figure out things that there are no answers for. Like I remember a friend saying she loved 77 because it was the number of the angels or something like that. Sounds weird to me. Bible says man won't be able to figure out the time, place....etc. It is not written.

 

[BukiRob]

"What is the mark? THE OBSERVANCE OF SABBATH"


Hardly .... this SDA teaching is totally bogus

Never said that was or is an SDA teaching... what makes them disqualified is the cling to replacement theology

 

[Alawishis]

That's right, although the mark of the beast can consist of his number (Revelation 13:17, Revelation 15:2).

Regarding the 666 in Revelation 13:17c-18, it refers to the number six hundred and sixty-six, the "number of the name" of the individual man who is the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast"). The number of a name (Revelation 13:17c-18, Revelation 15:2) is determined by employing the ancient method of gematria, by which numerical values are assigned to the letters of any alphabet as follows: The first nine letters are 1 through 9, the next nine letters are 10 through 90 (counting by tens), and the rest of the letters are 100, 200, 300, etc., to the end of the alphabet. In Revelation 13:18, the "counting", the adding up, of the gematrial number of the Antichrist's name should be done in the same way that the gematrial numerical values of the three Greek letters (Chi, Xi, and Stigma) at the end of Revelation 13:18 (in the original Greek Textus Receptus) are added up to arrive at the number six hundred and sixty-six.

Yes, that's correct. My point was that it's important not to confuse them as many people do.

The numerical values of the letters of the ancient Greek alphabet (including the three obsolete letters of Stigma, Qoppa, and Sampi) were as follows: Alpha = 1, Beta = 2, Gamma = 3, Delta = 4, Epsilon = 5, Stigma = 6, Zeta = 7, Eta = 8, Theta = 9, Iota = 10, Kappa = 20, Lambda = 30, Mu = 40, Nu = 50, Xi = 60, Omikron = 70, Pi = 80, Qoppa = 90, Rho = 100, Sigma = 200, Tau = 300, Upsilon = 400, Phi = 500, Chi = 600, Psi = 700, Omega = 800, Sampi = 900.

Just as the numerical values of Chi, Xi, and Stigma at the end of Revelation 13:18 (in the Textus Receptus) add up to 666, so the numerical values of the letters in the Antichrist's name will add up to 666 (Revelation 13:17c-18). John used the Greek alphabet because it was the most common one used by believers when the book of Revelation was written. Today, the English alphabet is the most common one used by believers, insofar as English is the current lingua franca of the world. So the Antichrist's name will most likely add up to 666 in the English alphabet. The purpose of Revelation 13:17c-18 is to facilitate for believers, not to make difficult for them, the identification of a certain man as possibly being the Antichrist. If the letters in his name had to be transliterated into the Greek alphabet, this would vitiate this purpose, for almost all believers today would not know how to properly perform this transliteration, and so different believers would come up with different transliterations, and so would come up with different gematrial numbers for the name of the man in question.

I agree, there is no question from the text that there is a correlation between the number of the beast 666 and his name. It might not be his common name but perhaps another name or title he is known by.

If believers think that someone is the Antichrist, they need to check and make sure that his name adds up to 666 in gematria (Revelation 13:17c-18). If it does not, then he is not the Antichrist. If it does, then he could be, and they need to be especially wary of him and not be taken in by any deceptive charisma, intelligence, or amazing deeds which he might display. But even if someone's name does add up to 666, this does not mean that he is definitely the Antichrist. For just by chance there could be more than one person in the world whose name adds up to 666. The Antichrist also has to come from a country the territory of which used to be part of one of the four Diadochian Greek kingdoms which succeeded Alexander the Great (Daniel 8:8-9,21-25). These kingdoms stretched from Greece over to Iran, and down into Egypt. So the Antichrist could come from the Middle East. He could be an Arab who will come from Lebanon, from the modern city of Tyre (Ezekiel 28:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:4), and have a name like (for example) "Nabil Abdullah Falakal al-Hakim", which adds up to 666.

But if a man from the Middle East has a name which adds up to 666, even this does not assure that he is the Antichrist. For he also has to sit (at least one time) in a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem and proclaim himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4, Daniel 11:31,36, Matthew 24:15, Revelation 11:1-2). Once he does that, there will not be any more room for doubt over whether or not he is the Antichrist; his identity will have been definitely revealed (2 Thessalonians 2:3b-4).

The gematrial numerical values of the letters of the English alphabet are: A=1, B=2, C=3, D=4, E=5, F=6, G=7, H=8, I=9, J=10, K=20, L=30, M=40, N=50, O=60, P=70, Q=80, R=90, S=100, T=200, U=300, V=400, W=500, X=600, Y=700, Z=800. The way that the gematrial number of a name is "counted" (Revelation 13:17c-18), is added up, is simply by adding up the gematrial numerical values of all the letters in that name. So, for example, the number of the name "John Mark Smith" is 636, because: J=10, O=60, H=8, N=50, M=40, A=1, R=90, K=20, S=100, M=40, I=9, T=200, H=8. Total = 636. The Antichrist's name will add up to 666 (Revelation 13:17c-18).

That's right.

For in Daniel 7, the first three beasts (Daniel 7:3-6) represent the ancient empires of Babylon (lion), Medo-Persia (bear), and Greece (leopard). And the 4th, "terrible", beast (Daniel 7:7), or 4th "king"/"kingdom" (Daniel 7:17,23), represents the ancient Roman empire. And the 10 horns/kings which come out of it (Daniel 7:7,24) could represent 10 major kingdoms/nations today which came out the former territory of the Roman empire, which consisted not only of Western Europe, but also the Middle East and North Africa. These 10 nations could be Germany, the U.K., France, Italy, Spain, Turkey, Egypt, Iraq, Algeria, and Syria. The 10 part-iron/part-clay toes of Daniel 2:42 could represent the same thing as the 10 horns of Daniel 7:7. The Europeans could be the iron, and the Arabs and Turks could be the clay. In Daniel 2:43, the inability of the iron to mix with the clay could represent how, for example, there are many Turks living in Germany, but they remain separated in ghettoes within German cities. Similarly, there are many Arab Algerians living in France, but they remain separated in ghettoes within French cities.

But despite this social separation, which could endure indefinitely, the people of Western Europe on the one hand and the people of the Middle East and North Africa on the other could still one day put aside their political separation and become united into one federation. For Daniel 2:42 refers to the 10 as a singular "kingdom". The person who will bring this about could be the Antichrist.

The arising of the "little" horn (Daniel 7:8, Daniel 8:9), which is "diverse" from the 10 major nations (Daniel 7:24), could mean that the Antichrist will arise from a little country. And the little horn arising from "among" the 10 major nations (Daniel 7:8) could mean that the Antichrist's country's territory used to be part of the Roman empire. And before that, it was part of one of the four Diadochian Greek kingdoms which succeeded the Greek empire of Alexander the Great (Daniel 8:8-9,21-25). The territory of these four kingdoms stretched from Greece over to Iran, and down into Egypt. So (again) the Antichrist could come from the Middle East. He could be an Arab who will come from the little country of Lebanon, from the modern city of Tyre (Ezekiel 28:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:4).

The Antichrist could start out by claiming to be a Baathist. After becoming the leader of Lebanon, he could peacefully gain control of a Baathist federation of three of the 10 major nations (Daniel 7:24): Egypt, "toward the south" of Lebanon (Daniel 8:9), and Iraq and Syria, "toward the east" of Lebanon (Daniel 8:9). This federation could also include the minor nation of a United Palestine, i.e. a defeated Israel, "the pleasant land" (Daniel 8:9).

This Baathist federation could be put together in the future by an Iraqi Baathist General who could completely defeat and occupy Israel and Egypt with a huge Iraqi Army (Daniel 11:15-17; in verse 17 the original Hebrew word translated as "daughter" is "bath"), but who could then mysteriously disappear (Daniel 11:19) shortly before the Antichrist arises on the world stage (Daniel 11:21-45). Years later, when the Antichrist gains control of all 10 of the major nations, he could appoint kings over them (Revelation 17:12) who will defer to him (Revelation 17:13), like when Napoleon gained control of different nations, he appointed kings over them who would defer to him.

So apart from the number of his name we have these attributes to look for:

• It is "a little horn" so it must be a small nation. (Daniel 7:8)
• It is diverse or different that the other nations. (Daniel 7:7 and 7:19)
• It arises out of the ten horns of the fourth beast, the Roman Empire. (Daniel 7:8)
• It comes up after the other ten horns were established. (Daniel 7:8)
• It uproots three other horns (nations) when it comes to power. (Daniel 7:8 and 7:20)
• It's "appearance was greater than his fellows" (Daniel 7:20 NKJV)
• It has the eyes of a man. (Daniel 7:8 and 7:20)
• It speaks great words against God (blasphemies). (Daniel 7:8)
• It will make war with the saints (God's people). (Daniel 7:21)
• It will think to change times and laws. (God's law, The laws of other nations) (Daniel 7:25)
• The God's people will be handed over to it for a while, "for the saints shall be given into his hand
  For a time and times and half a time (Daniel 7:25 NKJV) Some translations say this as "three and one-half years" This is based on a "time" referenced in the bible prophetically represents a year. Revelation 12:14, Revelation 12:6 confirm this time period as 1260 prophetic days. A Jewish year is 360 days so this all fits. In bible prophecy, each day represents one year Numbers 14:34 also Ezekiel 4:6, so 1260 prophetic days is 1260 literal years.
• It receives a wound to the head that seems to be fatal, but it eventually heals. (Revelation 13:3). A wound to the head has to be something that takes out its leadership. But eventually, the leadership will be restored.
• It will reign until the time of the end and Christ returns and destroys it. (Daniel 7:21-22)

Let us also consider the names used for the Antichrist power.

• Antichrist everyone knows this one. Most people take it to mean against Christ (anti - Christ) however there is a better meaning if you look at the Greek. Antichristos - Anti also means "instead of" or "substitution" (see Strongs G473). So we might be looking for a power that opposes Christ but also one that looks to be a substitution or put itself in the place of Christ. Christ forgives and removes our sins, He reconciles us to God, He justifies us, He redeems us. So the antichrist power may assume these roles that Christ alone provides.
• Son of perdition - This title is only used twice in the bible once to describe Judas Iscariot (John 17:12) and once the Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2:3) . Judas was a disciple of Christ, he started out in the right place and moved among the believers. He fell away and started to scheme behind the scenes but all the time he put on the outward appearance of being a follower of Christ. I believe this is an important consideration when looking to identify the antichrist power.
• The little horn - covered above.
• The man of sin. 2 Thess 2:3 - He will be a man and a sinner like all of us, though it's possible he might try and claim otherwise.
• The Lawless one. 2 Thess 2:8 - What law is he without or against? It has to be the ten commandments since it's the law of God.

It's important that I express that God has his people everywhere. In all churches, all nations, all walks of life, rich and poor, famous and unknown. There will be people from all churches walking the streets of heaven. If you've walked in the light that you have been provided God will cover you. I believe this with all my heart.

There is only one power that fits every single one of the attributes I have outlined, and it fits it perfectly. Not only that its title adds up to 666 and that title even translates to, "replacement for christ" or antichristos.

 

[precepts]

When you said, "You're a baby Christian as far as baby Christians go."

How can that be an insult? The Apostle Paul coined the phrase.

 

[Bible2+]

NothingIsImpossible said in post 190:

From what I understand people doing weird calculations to get 666 or whatever is considering unbiblical and is christians trying to figure out things that there are no answers for.

Note the following verse:

Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Here the "wisdom" given is that six hundred and sixty-six is the number of the Antichrist's name (Revelation 13:17c-18). And the "understanding" in Revelation 13:18 which is required to properly "count", to add up, the number of his name, is having an understanding of gematria, which scripture itself employs with the three Greek letters at the end of Revelation 13:18 (in the original Greek Textus Receptus), and which scriptural gematria, sadly, many Christians today are either unaware of, or, even if they know about it, they refuse to employ it, mistakenly thinking that it is some sort of occult numerology/divination.

NothingIsImpossible said in post 190:

Bible says man won't be able to figure out the time, place....etc.

Are you thinking of the following verse?

Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

If so, note that this, like Matthew 24:42,44, refers to Jesus' 2nd coming (Matthew 24:37,42,44), which Jesus had just finished saying will not happen until "immediately after the tribulation" (Matthew 24:29-31). So in Matthew 24:42,44, Jesus can mean that only if believers do not watch (stay awake, spiritually) during the tribulation, the 2nd coming will happen at an hour they don't know/think not (cf. the if principle of Revelation 3:3b). In the context of Matthew 24:36,42,44, Jesus suggests that it is possible for believers to know when the 2nd coming will occur and to watch for it (Matthew 24:43-44a; 1 Thessalonians 5:4).

Also, Jesus says "of that day and hour knoweth no man" (Matthew 24:36); he doesn't say "of that day and hour no man will know". So it is possible that at a certain point in our future, some believers will come to know the date (as in the year, month, and day) of the 2nd coming before it happens. Also, if we mistakenly think that Jesus can come today or tomorrow (as is sometimes claimed by the pre-tribulation and partial preterist views), then how can we also claim that he will come when nobody thinks he will (Matthew 24:44)?

Also, compare the following: "of that day and hour knoweth no man" (Matthew 24:36), "the things of God knoweth no man" (1 Corinthians 2:11). If we claim that the first verse means that no man will ever know the date of the 2nd coming until it happens, then to be consistent we would have to also claim that the 2nd verse means that no man, not even believers, can know the things of God until the 2nd coming. But who would say that? For the Holy Spirit can currently reveal to believers the things of God (1 Corinthians 2:12-13). He can currently guide them into all truth and show them what will happen in the future (John 16:13), including the date of the 2nd coming. For, again, Jesus suggests that it is possible for believers to know when the 2nd coming will occur and to watch for it (Matthew 24:43-44a; 1 Thessalonians 5:4). Also, what Amos 3:7 says would include the 2nd coming: Surely God the Father will not send Jesus back without having first revealed to some believers the secret of the date of the 2nd coming.

Jesus could return on the 1,335th day after the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) is set up in a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem (Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation 16:15, Daniel 11:31,36, Matthew 24:15).

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That is, Daniel 12:11-12 and Revelation 16:15 could mean that 1,335 literal days after the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) is set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem (Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31), Jesus' 2nd coming will occur, and blessed are those believers who wait and remain obedient until that day. If the literal 1,260 days of the Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-8, Revelation 12:6) will begin when the abomination of desolation is set up; and if the 7 vials of God's wrath will begin on the day after the 1,260 days of the Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 11:15,19, Revelation 15:5 to 16:1); and if the first six vials will be poured out over 30 days; then the 6th vial could be poured out on the 1,290th day after the abomination of desolation is set up (Daniel 12:11).

It is on this 1,290th day that the blessing of Daniel 12:12 and Revelation 16:15 could be given, after the 6th vial has been poured out (Revelation 16:12), encouraging those in the church who will still be alive on the earth at that time to keep holding on just 45 more days until Jesus' 2nd coming on the 1,335th day. The 45 days could be taken up by the gathering together of the world's armies to Armageddon (Revelation 16:14,16) (Har Megiddo: Mount Megiddo in northern Israel) and then their moving south to pillage Jerusalem, right before Jesus' 2nd coming and their total defeat (Zechariah 14:2-21, Revelation 19:19-21).

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Coming to know at a certain point in our future the date of Jesus' 2nd coming will help Christians to endure patiently during the worst time of the future tribulation for Christians. As an analogy, imagine that during a persecution of Christians, you are thrown naked into a walk-in freezer. The door is locked and the lights are turned off, and you are just left in there to slowly suffer the freezing cold. You could freak out at this, if you have no idea how long you are going to have to be in there. But what if right after they turn the lights off, you see a little light in the corner, and you walk over and see a note on the wall: "You will be let out and set free in 13.35 minutes" (cf. the 1,335 days of Daniel 12:11-12). This would greatly help you to remain calm and to hang in there patiently for the whole time, even though you might suffer terribly from the cold. In the same way, knowing exactly when Jesus' 2nd coming will occur (Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation 16:15) will help Christians, during the worst time of the future tribulation for Christians, to endure patiently to the end (Matthew 24:13, Revelation 13:10b).

NothingIsImpossible said in post 190:

It is not written.

Note that Bible prophecy is not missing any information, insofar as in it, Jesus has told believers everything that they need to know in order not to be deceived by anything that is coming: "take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things" (Mark 13:23). "Take heed lest any man deceive you" (Mark 13:5).

That is, the main reason that the Bible gives clear warning ahead of time about everything that Christians alive at the time of the tribulation will have to face (Mark 13:23, Revelation chapters 6 to 18, Revelation 1:1, Revelation 22:16), before Jesus returns immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6), is so that Christians can be better prepared mentally not to be blindsided (1 Peter 4:12-13) or deceived by anything that is coming (Matthew 24:4-5,23-25, Revelation 13:13-18, Revelation 19:20), and so that they can be better prepared mentally to endure the future tribulation with patience and faith to the end (Matthew 24:9-13, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6), and not commit apostasy during the tribulation (Isaiah 8:21-22, Matthew 24:9-13, Matthew 13:21), to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Hebrews 6:4-8, John 15:6; 2 Timothy 2:12).

 

[Bible2+]

BukiRob said in post 191:

Never said that was or is an SDA teaching...

An SDA teaching is that the mark of the beast is Sunday worship, instead of keeping the Sabbath.

But the Bible teaches that Christians, whether Jews or Gentiles, do not have to keep the sabbath of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law. For even the letter of the 10 commandments written and engraven in stones (2 Corinthians 3:7, Deuteronomy 4:13) was part of the abolished Old Covenant Mosaic law's ministration of death (2 Corinthians 3:6-7, Exodus 31:15b), which has been replaced by the New Covenant (Jeremiah 31:31-34) ministration of the spirit (2 Corinthians 3:6-18), in which believers are delivered from the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, and keep the spirit (Romans 7:6) of all the Old Covenant Mosaic law's commandments by loving others (Romans 13:8-10).

Saying that believers have to keep the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic-law sabbath is just as mistaken as saying that believers have to keep the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic-law circumcision (Acts 15:1-11). If believers keep the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic-law sabbath thinking that they have to because it is part of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, then they are as fallen from grace (Galatians 5:4) as believers who keep the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic-law circumcision thinking that they have to because it is part of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Galatians 5:2). They have become debtors to perform the letter of the entire Old Covenant Mosaic law (Galatians 5:3). They have placed themselves under its curse (Galatians 3:10, Deuteronomy 27:26).

So no believer should ever desire to go back into bondage under the letter of any part of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Galatians 4:21 to 5:8). Believers need to keep the sabbath only in spirit, not in the letter (Romans 7:6). Believers must never judge other believers for not keeping the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic-law sabbath (Colossians 2:16), which letter was abolished on the New Covenant Cross of Jesus along with all the rest of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Colossians 2:14-17, Ephesians 2:15-16, Romans 7:6, Hebrews 7:18-19, Hebrews 10:9b, Hebrews 10:1-23, Matthew 26:28).

For its letter was merely a shadow; now it all comes down to Jesus himself (Colossians 2:17). Jesus' New Covenant sabbath rest (Matthew 11:28-30), which all believers enter by faith (Hebrews 4:3-4), exceeds in righteousness (cf. Matthew 5:20) the abolished letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic-law sabbath. For under the New Covenant sabbath, Christians must cease from their own works, as in those done apart from abiding in Jesus (John 15:4-5), every day of the week (Hebrews 4:3,10, Luke 9:23). And they can esteem every day of the week (Romans 14:5).

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Also, Christians should be worshipping God every day of the week (Hebrews 13:15, cf. Psalms 145:2). And they should be meeting together every day of the week (Hebrews 3:13, Hebrews 10:25), at least in some fashion (Matthew 18:20), such as on this forum. The early church started assembling together on the Lord's day (commonly called Sunday) instead of on the sabbath (commonly called Saturday) because the Lord's day, the first day of the week, was the day on which Jesus physically resurrected (Mark 16:9) from the dead: "no longer observing the sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him" (Epistle of Ignatius to the Magnesians, chapter 9. Ignatius was a contemporary of John the apostle. Compare John's reference to "the Lord's day" in Revelation 1:10).

But it is not a requirement for Christians to assemble together only on the Lord's day, or to esteem the Lord's day above every other day of the week. It is also okay for Christians to choose to assemble together on the sabbath, because they esteem the sabbath above every other day of the week. It is also okay for Christians to esteem every day of the week. Christians are never to judge each other over this matter, but are simply to do what they believe that Jesus wants them as individuals to do (Romans 14:4-13). So the point is not for Christians to esteem days, but to focus on the person of Jesus himself (Colossians 2:16-17).

Also, how do those who think that they must keep the letter of the Old Covenant sabbath, keep the letter of the sabbath of Leviticus 25?

BukiRob said in post 191:

... what makes them disqualified is the cling to replacement theology

Note that even though the church is Israel (Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10), the church does not "replace" Israel, because Gentiles in the church are grafted in to become only parts of an already-existing Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29, John 10:16), which includes the Jews in the church (Romans 11:1).

That is, all genetic Jews in the church remain members of whichever tribe of Israel they were born into (Romans 11:1, Acts 4:36). And all genetic Gentiles in the church have been grafted into Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29), and so have been grafted into its various tribes (cf. Ezekiel 47:21-23). So the entire church is the 12 tribes of Israel (Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10). This is necessary, for all those in the church are saved only by the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28; 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6, Hebrews 9:15), which is made only with Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-34, John 4:22b). John 10:16 refers to the "other sheep" of believers who are Gentiles being brought into "this fold" of Israel, which is the "one fold" of the church (1 Corinthians 12:13, Ephesians 4:4-6, Revelation 21:9,12). A genetic Gentile believer can pray and ask which tribe of Israel he has been grafted into, and he will receive an answer from God, if he asks in faith (cf. Matthew 21:22), without any wavering (cf. James 1:6-7).

Also, all those in the church, no matter whether they are genetic Jews (Acts 22:3) or genetic Gentiles (Romans 16:4b), have become spiritually-circumcised Jews, if they have undergone the spiritual circumcision of water-immersion (burial) baptism into Jesus (Romans 2:29, Philippians 3:3, Colossians 2:11-13).

Also, immediately after the tribulation, when the whole world will see the amazing return of Jesus himself from heaven (Matthew 24:29-30, Revelation 1:7), all the still-living, unsaved, elect genetic Jews will be ashamed, and will all weep and become saved when they see Jesus and realize that he truly is their salvation (Zechariah 12:10-14, Romans 11:26-29). And so they will all become part of the church at that time, just as when genetic Jews believe in Jesus now they become part of the church. For now there are no believers outside of the church (Ephesians 4:4-6).

And the genetic Jews who will become believers at the 2nd coming will all become part of the church by receiving some measure of the Holy Spirit, who is "the spirit of grace and of supplications" in Zechariah 12:10 (Hebrews 10:29c, Romans 8:26), just as genetic Jewish believers today become part of the church by receiving some measure of the Holy Spirit. For it is by receiving some measure of the Holy Spirit that both genetic Jewish believers and genetic Gentile believers become part of the church (1 Corinthians 12:13).

 

[Bible2+]

Alawishis said in post 192:

. . . there is a correlation between the number of the beast 666 and his name. It might not be his common name but perhaps another name or title he is known by.

Are you thinking of "Vicarius Filii Dei", a title of the pope? If so, note that it only equals 666 when by mistake people use the Roman-numeral method of counting the number of a name:

V = 5
I = 1
C = 100
A
R
I = 1
U = 5 (because under this method U is the same as V)
S

F
I = 1
L = 50
I = 1
I = 1

D = 500
E
I = 1

Total = 666

This does not mean that the pope is the Antichrist. It just means that the Roman-numeral method gives false positives. For example:

E
L = 50
L = 50
E
N

G
O
U = 5
L = 50
D = 500

W = 10 (because W = double U = UU = VV)
H
I = 1
T
E

Total = 666

This does not mean that the most important early leader of the SDA-view is the Antichrist. It just means that the SDA-view (or any other view) should not employ the Roman-numeral method of counting the number of a name, instead of the Bible's own method, which is gematria.

Alawishis said in post 192:

•It will think to change times and laws. (God's law, The laws of other nations) (Daniel 7:25)

Are you thinking of the idea that Daniel 7:25 is referring to a pope changing the time of the sabbath? If so, note that Daniel 7:25 is instead referring to the future Antichrist, who could radically change the calendar, to where he will even get rid of the 7-day week, with its connotation to YHWH and his 7-day creation of the world (Genesis 2:2). For the Antichrist will utterly revile YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36).

The Antichrist could do what the atheists of the French Revolution did: Change the calendar to one consisting of 10-day weeks. Then he could say that every month will consist of three of these 10-day weeks, so that the year will consist of 12 months each with exactly 30 days. But because that makes the year only 360 days long, he could add a (holiday) period at the end of the year consisting of 5 or 6 days.

Like they did in the French Revolution, the Antichrist could also change the names of the 12 months to whatever pleases him. And he could change the names of the 10 days of the week to whatever pleases him.

The Antichrist's changing of "times" could even extend to the hour, minute, and second. He could replace the 60-second minute with a 10-second "new minute", and the 60-minute hour with a 10-new-minute "new hour", so that the decimal-based metric system will finally be extended to time-keeping.

But because the new, 100-second new-hours would mean that there would be 864 new-hours in a day, he could change the length of the second to a "new-second" consisting of about 86.4 of our current seconds, so that there will be exactly 10 new-hours in every day. Times shorter than the new-second would be metric: the deci-new-second, the centi-new-second (about .864 the length of our current second), the milli-new-second, etc.

So the Antichrist's "changing of times" could seem pretty neat to the world (and to metric-system-loving scientists): 10 days in a week, 10 hours in a day, 10 minutes in an hour, 10 seconds in a minute.

This could all be sold to the world as part of a "New World Order", as a way of "finally shedding all of the archaic time-keeping conventions, and replacing them with a modern and scientific system of time-keeping in line with the metric system of weights and measures, which has already proven to be such a boon to mankind".

Alawishis said in post 192:

So the antichrist power may assume these roles that Christ alone provides.

Are you thinking of the idea that the pope is the Antichrist? If so, note that the beast which comes up out of the earth in Revelation 13:11-16 represents the individual man who will become the Antichrist's False Prophet (Revelation 19:20, Revelation 16:13). And he could be a secretly-apostate pope who at some point during his tenure will make a great push for peace and unity between Christianity and Islam. He could say something like: "Why do we fight each other? Are we not all the spiritual children of Abraham and of his God, the one God? Can't we lay aside our foolish, man-made differences of theology, which have done us no good at all, but have only brought us hatred and violence, and unite into one religion of Abraham, one religion of peace, based on love for the one God and love for our fellow man? What is more important than this?"

He could be so skillful in elucidating what the moderate Muslims could call "the true, peaceful, loving nature of Islam", that he could be hailed by them worldwide as (in their words) "a Great Imam, come to rescue our beloved Islam from the bad reputation falsely given to it by the terrorists". In this way, a pope could come to hold high positions of power in two religions at the same time, which could be symbolized by the two horns of the False Prophet lamb (Revelation 13:11). This would be similar to how the 7 horns of the true-Jesus lamb in Revelation 5:6 could represent the true Jesus holding 7 positions of power at the same time (cf. Jesus wearing many crowns at the same time in Revelation 19:12). The False Prophet could even say that he is Jesus. (But he will not say that he is Christ, for the False Prophet and the Antichrist will deny that Jesus is the Christ, and will deny that Christ is in the flesh: 1 John 2:22; 2 John 1:7.)

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If a secretly-apostate pope does become the Antichrist's False Prophet (of Revelation 13:11-16, Revelation 19:20, and Revelation 16:13), adherents of Catholicism will have to decide what their ultimate source of truth is: Is it the pope and the RCC, or God and the Bible? Many adherents of Catholicism who know God and the Bible well and hold to them as their ultimate source of truth will no doubt be utterly aghast at the false doctrines of a False Prophet pope. Such adherents of Catholicism could demand that he be removed for heresy and apostasy, and that the cardinals elect a new pope. But other adherents of Catholicism, including many cardinals, bishops, and priests, could be deceived (along with most of the rest of the world) into believing the False Prophet pope's false doctrines, because of his ability to perform the most amazing miracles (Revelation 13:13-14, Revelation 19:20; cf. Matthew 24:24).

And so a great schism could arise within the RCC. Compare the Akita prophecy: "The work of the devil will infiltrate even into the Church in such a way that one will see cardinals opposing cardinals, bishops against bishops". Many adherents of Catholicism could follow the False Prophet pope, while other adherents of Catholicism could reject him and eventually even elect their own, new pope (or reinstall a former pope who is still alive), whom they could declare to be the "True pope". But this new (or reinstated) "True pope" could then be murdered, along with many of his followers, by the False Prophet pope's soldiers. Compare the 3rd Secret of Fatima: "he [the pope] was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him, and in the same way there died one after another the other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious, and various lay people of different ranks and positions". Could the soldiers firing "arrows" be the Vatican's Swiss Guards, whose weapons and colorful uniforms hark back to the Middle Ages?

After this slaughter, the False Prophet pope could manage to retain the papacy and full control of the Vatican, and through his (deceived) cardinals, bishops, and priests, retain full control of all RCC cathedrals, parishes, churches, etc., throughout the world. And when the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") obtains power over all nations, he and the False Prophet will make war against true, Biblical Christians (whether they are adherents of Catholicism or not) throughout the world, and will physically overcome them and kill them (by beheading) in every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

It is only when the Antichrist has completely broken all the physical power of the true church (which consists of all true believers, whether they are adherents of Catholicism or not: Ephesians 4:4-6) that the future tribulation will end (Daniel 12:7b) and Jesus' 2nd coming will immediately occur, at which time he will physically resurrect and rapture (gather together) the church (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6). And at his 2nd coming, Jesus will tread the winepress of God's wrath alone (Isaiah 63:3, Revelation 19:15-21), and so he/God will get all of the glory for defeating the power of evil on the earth (Deuteronomy 32:39-43). For he/God will not share this glory with the church (cf. Isaiah 42:8-14, Isaiah 26:18).

 

[LadyCrosstalk]

DeerGlow, I don't think you need to worry. If you take God at His word, a time will come (and you may even be long gone by then) when you'll be approached to take a mark on your right hand or forehead, without which you can't buy or sell. When this happens, say "no". End of story. I suspect this hasn't happened to you yet, so you don't have the mark now. And if it comes in your lifetime there will be no doubt about the choice.

I would agree with this assessment. Jesus gave us plenty of warning about those times that are yet in the future--we seem to be quite close to them these days. A great delusion seems to be falling on many many people and there appears to be great evil afoot today. I am always startled to see this or that entertainer claim openly that he/she "worships Satan" (or so we are told). The fact that anyone would claim that for themselves is a testimony to our perverse age. But since you are not blind to that evil and concerned about taking the Mark, it indicates to me that you are not in danger of doing so. Those who take the Mark will do so willingly, with full knowledge of what is occurring.

Just as Christians--that is, those who are indwelt by His Holy Spirit (see Romans 8:9) understand what they are doing when they seek baptism, so those who are in the delusion of darkness, will seek to be indwelt by Satan. Judas Iscariot is the type for those who are completely possessed by Satan, as they choose great evil. Redemption is impossible for them. (see John 13:27 for that moment in Judas' life)

Jesus quotes the prophet Isaiah (Isaiah 6:10) when He speaks to those unbelievers whose thoughts are only evil ones (such as the wicked people who were wiped away in the Flood): "The Lord has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts--so that their eyes cannot see, and their hearts cannot understand, and they cannot turn to me and have me heal them." (John 12:40) I do not believe it is a coincidence that Jesus depicts the time of the End as a parallel to the time leading up to the Flood judgment. We are given few details in Genesis of that period but it appears likely that it was filled with unimaginable evil.

 

[sdowney717]

Nobody has the mark of the beast yet.
No one gets this mark till after the beast is exposed on the earth.
V7 , all people worshipping the beast and the war against the saints and him being allowed to overcome the saints has not yet happened. This will be for a time of 42 months.
None of these verses have had fulfillment yet, so then there is no mark of the beast yet you could get.
These events are not done in SECRET, they are extremely public to the world.

Revelation 13New King James Version (NKJV)
The Beast from the Sea
13 Then I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name. 2 Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority. 3 And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world marveled and followed the beast. 4 So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?”

5 And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months. 6 Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. 7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe,tongue, and nation. 8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear. 10 He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity; he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

The Beast from the Earth
11 Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon. 12 And he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence, and causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 13 He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men. 14 And he deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived. 15 He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed. 16 He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, 17 and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is666.

 

[Straightshot]

Good post just above LadyCrosstalk

The mark of Satan's beast Abaddon/Apollyon
will be evident to those living in the tribulation .... and related to the human little horn of Daniel's visions

All who partake and follow the same and will do so because they want to identify with the beast

The symbolic mark will be evident and demonstrated at the time .... this mark will signify Satan, Abaddon, and the little horn

 

[Major1]

The mark of the beast won't scare you or anyone else.
It is subtle and the road is paved all the way.
In a nut she'll, the mark of the beast is man led religion.

Revelation 14:9 ...
'And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice. If any man WORSHIP the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in in hand ...."