Avoiding the Mark of the beast

[Bible2+]

masmpg said in post 218:

I look around nominal churches and they are all saying this man or that machine is the "antichrist" or the "beast".

Note that any man is an antichrist who denies that Jesus of Nazareth is the Christ (1 John 2:22), or who denies that Jesus is the human/divine Son of God (1 John 2:22b), or who denies that Christ is in the flesh (2 John 1:7). The spirit of antichrist which will animate the future Antichrist has been working since the 1st century AD (1 John 4:3; 2 Thessalonians 2:7a), animating many antichrists since that time (2 John 1:7).

That is, the existence of many antichrists (1 John 2:18) does not contradict that there will be an individual man (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4,9, Revelation 13:4-18) who is commonly called the Antichrist, just as on the side of good, the existence of many sons of God (John 1:12) does not contradict that there is an individual man (Jesus Christ of Nazareth) who is the Son of God (John 20:31).

The man commonly called the Antichrist will be the fulfillment of the individual "man of sin" (2 Thessalonians 2:3) who will sit (at least one time) in a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem and proclaim himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). He will fulfill the individual "man" aspect of the "beast" who will come (Revelation 13:18) and bring the world into the conscious and open worship of Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) and himself (Revelation 13:4,8, Revelation 12:9). He will rule the earth for 3.5 literal years (Revelation 13:5-10, Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7), and will have a miracle-working False Prophet (Revelation 19:20, Revelation 16:13), who by amazing, Satanic miracles (2 Thessalonians 2:9b), such as calling fire down from heaven (Revelation 13:13), will deceive the world into worshipping a speaking (possibly an android) image of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:15), and receiving a mark of the Antichrist's name or gematrial name-number (666) on their right hand or forehead (Revelation 13:16-18). The Antichrist and his False Prophet will ultimately be cast into the lake of fire at Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:20), while at that time Satan will be bound in the bottomless pit for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:1-3). None of these things has happened yet.

masmpg said in post 218:

I look around nominal churches and they are all saying this man or that machine is the "antichrist" or the "beast".

Regarding "that machine", note that the "image of the beast" (Revelation 13:15) could be an android image of the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) which the Antichrist's False Prophet (of Revelation 13:11-16, Revelation 19:20) could cause to be made after the Antichrist receives a terrible head wound (Revelation 13:3,14b). For this injury could leave the Antichrist's facial and bodily appearance permanently marred, and could render him unable to speak clearly, like someone after a bad stroke, so that the Antichrist will not want to appear or speak in public again.

Did you ever see that movie "Dave"? It had a President who was in a coma, so his handlers found a regular guy who looked exactly like the President, and had him be a public stand-in for the President. He was able to speak just like the President did. It could be like that with the Antichrist's image. It could be the Antichrist's "Dave", his double, which appears and speaks (Revelation 13:15) before the world instead of his wounded self. But instead of letting people think that the Antichrist's android image is the Antichrist himself, the False Prophet could tell people from the beginning that the image is not the Antichrist himself, but still fully represents him.

In Revelation 13:15, the original Greek word translated as "life" or "breath" (pneuma: G4151) can mean "spirit" in the sense of consciousness (1 Corinthians 2:11a, Luke 1:47), so that the android could appear to have a spirit, to have consciousness. The way that this could be achieved would be through the android having wireless connections to huge banks of supercomputers running highly-advanced artificial intelligence software. The False Prophet could claim that the Antichrist's consciousness dwells within the android by means of neural networks imprinted with the Antichrist's brain patterns. But this could be a lie, in that the android will not actually have the Antichrist's consciousness, or any true consciousness, but will only appear to have consciousness, by its being able to pass even the most stringent Turing Test. This is a test whereby one speaks with a computer and cannot tell whether it has consciousness or not, because all of its answers are the same as if it had consciousness.

But the android's "consciousness" could appear far more advanced than any human's, for it could have access to huge databases containing every fact known to man, so that the android will appear to be omniscient. In this way, it could convince the world that it is not just a machine, but a material incarnation, a machine avatar, of the true God, a literal "deus ex machina", a literal "God from a machine". And this machine "God" could boast not only of his mental powers, but also of his physical powers: he could be extremely strong. And he could boast of the "immortality" of his machine (yet still human-shaped) body, which could be made of titanium, covered with some practically-everlasting flesh-like silicone. People could just be completely awestruck by his (what they could call) "omniscient wisdom, his strength, his indestructibility". They could consider him more than worthy of worship by (in their words) "mere humanity, which is so mentally and physically limited, made out of mere flesh and blood, which is so weak and so mortal". The world will actually worship the Antichrist's image (Revelation 13:15), just as it will actually worship Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) and the Antichrist (Revelation 13:4,8, Revelation 12:9).

The Antichrist's image could be placed standing in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem, so that the image will become the abomination of desolation (Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31). And in order to make it easy for everyone in the world to be able to see the image and worship it (Revelation 13:15), it could appear on every smartphone, television, computer, GPS navigation system, and electronic billboard at set times each day. And to make it possible for everyone to interact with it personally, it could appear as a computer-generated image on each individual's smartphone, speaking in and understanding each individual's language, conversing with each individual with personalized messages and responses devised by supercomputers running artificial intelligence and language software.

And it could discuss with them even the most intimate details of their lives, for it could have access to huge databases compiled by the Antichrist's worldwide intelligence, law enforcement, economic, and health agencies, databases containing all the facts about everyone: who their family and friends are, where they live and work, who their neighbors and coworkers are, how much they make, what cars and properties they own and use, where they go, where they shop, what they buy, where they eat out, what shows and videos they watch, what they read, what they say, what they post on the internet, what their health problems are, etc., so that the Antichrist's image could seem to know everything about everyone.

And the worship of the image could be connected with a daily surveillance and subjugation of everyone. For the image's supercomputers could make his image automatically appear on everyone's smartphone at set times each day to be worshipped. And smartphones contain GPS chips which can be secretly pinged in order to determine the exact location of the smartphones. So when the image appears on everyone's smartphone, the image's supercomputers could ping the GPS chip of everyone's smartphone and know exactly where everyone is.

Also, smartphones contain cameras and microphones, which can be remotely opened secretly in order to see and hear what is going on around the smartphones. So when the image appears on everyone's smartphone, the image's supercomputers could open the cameras and microphones of everyone's smartphone to determine what everyone is doing and saying, and the image could then demand that the individuals worship him as God, saying some set prayer of praise and adoration. And if any individual refuses, the image's supercomputers could detect his noncompliance, and notify the nearest police officers of his exact location, and order the officers to arrest him for blasphemy and treason. He could then be given a chance to be "reformed" (i.e. in a brainwashing camp, or through physical torture, if necessary), but if he proves recalcitrant, he will be executed (Revelation 13:15) by being beheaded (Revelation 20:4).

The beheading process itself could be made into a televised and webcasted spectacle, to serve not only as a dire warning to anyone thinking of refusing to worship the image, but also to serve as an amazingly-horrific entertainment for the masses, like how the ancient Romans made it an entertainment for the masses to gather them into the Colosseum in Rome and let them watch Christians being thrown to lions and devoured alive.

Huge beheading structures could be built, by which 20 "traitors" could be beheaded at one time by one fall of one blade. The "traitors" could be bound in a row along an upright "U"-shaped device with a track for a large guillotine blade, which could start out in a resting position at the top of one side. The blade could be so massive and so sharp that when it is released it will easily slice down through 10 necks on one side of the "U" and continue on by its own momentum up the other side of the "U", shearing off another 10 heads. This all could happen so quickly that it will appear as if all 20 heads are struck off almost in unison, followed immediately by 20 geysers of blood rushing out in unison for all of the Antichrist's "faithful" to gawk at and cheer over in the comfort of their own homes before their televisions and computers.

Also, immediately after the show, at the site where it took place, teams of surgeons could rush in to "harvest" all of the fresh organs and other body parts from the beheaded bodies to be used for transplants (beheading being the best way for a body to die if you want to harvest its parts). What is left of the bodies could then be stuffed into shipping containers, which, once full, could be painted black and stacked like stones into a gigantic, Black Pyramid of Death, which could eventually reach some 30 stories high and contain tens of millions of bodies. A huge plaque could be erected in front of the Pyramid which will read: "This is a monument to the shame of YHWH, who created everything to die". (Of course, the truth is that he did not, for he created Adam and Eve immortal; it was not until they sinned that they became mortal: Genesis 2:17. And YHWH will restore immortality to saved humans through Jesus Christ: Romans 6:23. Also, any such plaque would be hypocritical, for it will be the Antichrist who will have murdered the people entombed in the Pyramid, not YHWH. And so it will actually be a monument to how those who hate YHWH and his wisdom, love death: Proverbs 8:36b.)

Regarding the worship of the Antichrist's image, to help foster a group dynamic, every neighborhood and village in the world could be helped to create a group worship center in which everyone in that neighborhood or village will have to gather together at a set time each evening to bow down and prostrate himself or herself before a life-size, lifelike image of the Antichrist, which could be a computer-generated, animated, holographic or widescreen 3D HDTV image of him clothed in beautiful golden robes and standing majestically before them (or sitting on a magnificent golden throne), and speaking computer-generated customized messages to them as a group.

This worship could be accompanied by the most beautiful symphonic music (cf. Daniel 3:5), or whatever is the most beautiful music to the local people, to help them (in the words of the Antichrist's propaganda machine) "Be uplifted into the true spirit of praise and worship of our Great Lord and Master. Praised be His Majestic Name forever and ever!", etc. And what with the wonderful music, and all of their fellow worshippers around them, and customized messages of encouragement spoken in a deep, soothing voice by a life-size, holographic or 3D HDTV image of the Antichrist to certain members of each "worship group", it could be that some people in each group will start to really get into the evening worship sessions, and even begin to (in their words) "Truly feel the Living Presence of our loving God among us, loving us so tenderly, so personally! Oh, how I love Him! He is So Great!"

For example, as a worshipper named Mary, a housewife with two little children, is bowing down before the image of the Antichrist, he could speak forth to her "Mary! Mary! My beloved handmaid! You are so precious to me, my love. You so faithfully take care of dear little Johnnie and Michelle, whom I have entrusted to you, that you might raise them up to become My servants and faithful worshippers, just as you are. How I love thee, my Mary. How I cherish thee, my precious dove!". And poor Mary could begin to cry with happiness over her dear Lord's kind words to her, not realizing that they are merely the concoction of some artificial-intelligence program running in some supercomputer down in the basement of some government building.

Also, the world's worship of the Antichrist's image (Revelation 13:15), no matter how blissful it may become for some people, and the world's worship of the Antichrist and Lucifer (Satan) the dragon (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9), will last for less than four years (Revelation 13:5, Daniel 12:11-12) before Jesus Christ returns from heaven and completely defeats the Antichrist and Lucifer, and the Antichrist's False Prophet (Revelation 19:20 to 20:3), and Jesus then sets up his own, 1,000-year physical kingdom on the earth with the physically resurrected church (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29).

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masmpg said in post 219:

The only help we have, even now, and moreso as the antichristian right wing movement shows more of their ugly head on the world scene, is the Comforter.

Did you mean "left wing"?

masmpg said in post 219:

As far as the IN=ON I will stick with what the KJV states, because there are far too many manuscripts that have totally perverted God's holy word the KJV bible.

Note that only the KJV/Textus Receptus has been referred to. And in Revelation 13:16, "in" in the Greek is "epi", which means "on", just as it is translated as "on" in Revelation 14:1a.

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masmpg said in post 220:

666 IS the NUMBER of the beast, it is the number of a MAN. Not the mark of the beast.

Revelation 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Note that one of the meanings of the original Greek word ("e": G2228), translated as "or" in Revelation 13:17, is "either" (1 Corinthians 14:6). So the 2nd "or" in Revelation 13:17 (in the original Greek Textus Receptus) should be read as "either": "And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark: either the name of the beast, or the number of his name". Revelation 14:11 subsequently refers synecdochically to just the first of the two options: "the mark of his name". And Revelation 15:2 refers synecdochically to just the 2nd option: the mark of the number of his name. (In the original Greek Textus Receptus of Revelation 15:2, there is no "and" between "over his mark" and "over the number of his name").

 

[masmpg]

Note that any man is an antichrist who denies that Jesus of Nazareth is the Christ (1 John 2:22), or who denies that Jesus is the human/divine Son of God (1 John 2:22b), or who denies that Christ is in the flesh (2 John 1:7). The spirit of antichrist which will animate the future Antichrist has been working since the 1st century AD (1 John 4:3; 2 Thessalonians 2:7a), animating many antichrists since that time (2 John 1:7).

Here is something interesting to look at.

http://www.end-times-prophecy.org/man-of-sin-revealed.html

There is no guessing at any of God's word. God gave those who will really study His word instead of following popular false prophets and teachers, truth which can only be attacked by uninspired half truths by using bits and pieces of the bible and uninspired concordances, commentaries and even manuscripts. God's word is revealed by the Comforter. The tools that are available to us today are good as far as they go, but when the Comforter reveals John 14:26 & 16:13 to us these are no longer necessary. Once we start being led of the Comforter much of what these tools have taught will be overshadowed by the Holy Spirit.

I try to share the truth which has taken me over 50 years to learn. I have not followed any nominal church, not even the SDA denomination when it veered off from the straight path. By arguing, instead of questioning many cut themselves off from great revelations. I am not professing to be anything but a seed sower like all Christians should be. ALL bible translations have there issues, KJV is not exempt from that, but the KJV is the most accurate version which will lead us to the place where the Holy Spirit will take control of our understanding and make us prepared to stand before the councils, which Jesus mentioned, and we are not to rehearse what we are to say. NOW is the time to prepare for such a time. While we are standing before councils and we are not prepared, by the Holy Spirit, we will say what we want not what the Holy Spirit will put in our mouths to speak.

Futurism is not the way. To put all the plagues and tribulation revealed by John through the book of revelation into the future will only lead to great loss. Even though sola scriptura is true it takes much historic knowledge, which has been drastically changed to take the spotlight off the truth, to understand the prophecies. History repeats itself and to turn a blind eye to the papacy is ignorant at best. For every truth God reveals satan has a counterfeit. I believe part of the reason God does not reveal all truth at once is because of this. We are living in the seventh seal, and the seventh trumpet, waiting on the mark of the beast to be set up, then the seven last plagues will be poured out. You seem to think that 666 is the mark? It is the number of the beast NOT the mark! 666 is just an identifying characteristic, which The bible gives many unmistakable characteristics as to who the beast, man of sin, antichrist, call him what you want they are all the same entity the vatican. I will not say the catholic church for the simple reason there are many in the RCC who are living up to all the light God has given them personally who will be saved. BUT the time is coming where, according to John in revelation 14:9 EVERY MAN will have to choose to either obey God by keeping His law, or the beast by keeping the commandments of men. This is the mark of the beast!

 

[Aryeh]

This me super paranoid. Is it physical? Is it not? If the devil tricks me, even if it's only for a second to think evilly, am I doomed? How can I be sure I don't have the mark?

The mark is spiritual, but is vindicated through physical activity.

In your forehead: the frontal lobe influences behaviors. If you embrace a (beast) system that categorically supports and gives worship to the Enemy, then you are in danger of "marking" yourself. An example of spiritually marking yourself would be where your spiritual principles align in relation to God. "Do you believe Christ died, AND resurrected...?"

Right (dominant) hand: once you have all but sealed your BEHAVIOR (forehead,) you will also do "works" that substantiate your alignment. For example, if you hate at all (against God,) and you substantiate that hate by oppression, prejudice, racism, violence, etc. - then you are "working" to seal yourself and your alignment toward a beast system.

"Faith without works is dead" goes for evil and good also. The mark will be a spiritual beacon, and a conscious, willful set of actions by the person.

I think you shouldn't get worried or scared by the quadrillions of theories as to what the mark is (chip, implant, etc.) It is more of a spiritual phenomenon than a physical one; the physical mark is a consequence of your spiritual sealing/alignment. That worry is an attack from the enemy.

 

[FredVB]

The mark is the acceptance of Antichrist as in the place of the true Lord.

 

[La vérité]

Tough to say how not to be tricked. After all, the intelligence of the mind of the Devil is virtually infinite in scope when compared to that of a mere human mind. However, the human mind is finite in size, thus there is only a finite number of ways in which it may be deceived. Thus you have virtually infinite power that is up against a finite number of forms of possible deceit. So that puts his massive smarts out of business to a degree.

Plus, let us say that you have 2 dolls, and one has one more hair on the scalp than does the other. It would therefore be difficult to tell which doll is which. However, if the doll with the extra hair was a rag doll, and the other was a plastic doll, then it would be pretty easy to tell which was which. Thus the bigger and bigger the differences there are between the two, the easier it is to discern one from the other. Thus if the differences were massive in scale, almost no smarts at all would be required for one to discern one object from the other.

Thus if standing before you was, either Christ or the Anti-Christ, here the difference are so massive between the two that you would have to be as stupid as stupid could possibly be to misidentify who it is.

Yet approx. 2,000 years ago, a misidentification of this nature actually occurred ???

 

[Bible2+]

masmpg said in post 222:

Futurism is not the way.

Note that the tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, which Jesus will return immediately after (Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6), has not started yet. For it will begin with a horrible war, which, with its aftermath of famines and epidemics, will end up killing 1/4 of the world (Revelation 6:4-8). The "great sword" of this war (Revelation 6:4) could be Israel's nuclear weapons. After this war, there will be a terrible series of natural disasters historically unprecedented in their magnitude, such as a gigantic volcanic eruption (Revelation 6:12-14), possibly of the Yellowstone Caldera, and then the collapse into the ocean of another erupting volcano (Revelation 8:8-9), possibly one of the Canary Islands, the collapse of which could set up a huge tsunami which could destroy the eastern seaboard of the U.S.

If such a tsunami occurs, it could also cause a string of awful, Fukushima-type, nuclear-meltdown radiation disasters in the nuclear power plants and their nuclear-waste storage facilities all along the eastern seaboard of the U.S. Also, if the tsunami breaks open the germ-containment structures on Plum Island, just off the coast of Connecticut, especially-deadly viruses and bacteria could be washed inland and spread across the U.S. and Canada as they infect animals and people.

After the volcanic activity and possible tsunami, a comet will strike the earth (Revelation 8:10-11), possibly in the U.S. and Canadian Great Lakes region. As the comet falls from the sky, it will look like a great star, or like a burning lamp in the sky (Revelation 8:10). It will strike a region of the earth which contains 1/3 of the world's fresh surface water (Revelation 8:10b), and it will contain some poisonous element which will poison that water so that many who drink from it will die (Revelation 8:11b).

Sometime after that, weird locust-like beings will swarm up from the bottomless pit of the earth to torment mankind with excruciating stings for 5 months (Revelation 9:2-10). The world could see them as "aliens" who had been hibernating for thousands of years in a cavern deep underground. The locust-like beings will not kill anyone, but they will make those they sting want to die, the pain will be so bad (Revelation 9:5-6).

After that, an army of 200 million weird horse-like beings and their (possibly unclean spirit) riders will come upon the earth (Revelation 9:16-19). If they descend from the sky in spaceships, the world could see them as aliens. But they and the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") could (falsely) say that they are YHWH God's main army. In fact, they could be loyal to Lucifer (Satan, the dragon, Revelation 12:9). The four fallen angels now bound at the Euphrates who will lead this army (Revelation 9:14-16) could employ it to make mankind utterly desperate before its complete takeover by Lucifer and the Antichrist mid-tribulation (Revelation 12:9 to 13:18). For when this army starts killing 1/3 of mankind (Revelation 9:16-19), then could also begin one of the biggest deceptions ever wrought on humanity. For the Antichrist, who by that time could have managed to have been elected as the President of a Mediterranean Union formed by the joining of the European Union with an Arab Union stretching from Oman to Morocco, could announce to the world that he has sent a mental distress call to (what he could call) "My Father, our Lord Lucifer, to come with his legions of angels, and rescue mankind from this murderous army of YHWH".

(And all of this will be part of only the first half of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24.)

It is at this point that Lucifer and his fallen angels could be cast down out of heaven to the earth permanently after losing a mid-tribulation war in heaven (Revelation 12:7-9). But instead of coming down as a defeated force, they could descend for all the world to see in gigantic, magnificent golden spaceships onto the "Champ de Mars", Mars being the same as Marduk the dragon, the chief god of ancient Babylon. The "Champ de Mars" is the large open area in front of the Eiffel Tower in Paris. After landing there, Lucifer, a literal 7-headed, red dragon (Revelation 12:3,9), could emerge in great splendor and command his angels to capture the army of 200 million weird horse-like beings and their (possibly unclean spirit) riders, who could then pretend to defect from serving YHWH to serving Lucifer. Lucifer could then confirm that he has come to rescue mankind because the Antichrist, who he could say is his only-begotten "Son", called upon him (like in an Antichrist counterfeit of Matthew 26:53). Lucifer and the Antichrist could then be received wholeheartedly by the unsaved world as the saviors of mankind. And the unsaved world could be left thinking (mistakenly) that Lucifer and his angels were more powerful than even YHWH God's main army.

Lucifer and the Antichrist, along with the Antichrist's miracle-working False Prophet, will then deceive the world into actually worshipping Lucifer and the Antichrist and a speaking (possibly an android) image of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:4-16, Revelation 19:20; 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). And everyone will be made to receive a (possibly scarification) mark of the Antichrist either on their right hand or forehead, consisting of either the Antichrist's name or some representation of the gematrial number of his name (666) (Revelation 13:16-18). After Lucifer and the Antichrist have ruled the world for 3.5 literal years (Revelation 13:4-18), YHWH will send 7 vials of wrath against the unsaved world (Revelation 16).

Near the end of these 7 vials, unclean spirits like frogs will come out of the mouths of Lucifer, the Antichrist, and the False Prophet (Revelation 16:13). And these unclean spirits like frogs will go forth and perform amazing miracles to convince the world's armies to gather together at Armageddon (Har Megiddo: Mount Megiddo in northern Israel) (Revelation 16:16) to battle against YHWH himself (Revelation 16:14, Revelation 19:19). After gathering together at Armageddon as a staging area, the world's armies will travel south and pillage Jerusalem, right before Jesus (who is YHWH: John 10:30) returns from heaven and defeats them completely (Revelation 19:11 to 20:6, Zechariah 14:2-21).

When Jesus returns, immediately after the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Revelation 19:7-21, Matthew 24:29-31), he will descend physically from heaven on a white horse (Revelation 19:7-21; 1 Thessalonians 4:16, Zechariah 14:3-4, Acts 1:11-12) with all the holy angels (Matthew 25:31; 2 Thessalonians 1:7) for all the world to see (Matthew 24:27,30, Revelation 1:7). Then the church will be physically resurrected (if dead) or changed (if alive) into immortality (1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53; 1 Thessalonians 4:16, Revelation 20:4-6) and caught up together/gathered together (raptured) (Matthew 24:31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1) as high as the clouds of the sky to hold a meeting in the air with Jesus (1 Thessalonians 4:17).

At that meeting, Jesus will judge the church (Psalms 50:3-5, cf. Mark 13:27; 2 Corinthians 5:10, Luke 12:45-48) and marry its obedient part (Revelation 19:7-8, Matthew 25:1-12) in the clouds, before it mounts white horses and comes back down from sky (the 1st heaven) with Jesus (Revelation 19:14) as he defeats the world's armies (Revelation 19:19,21), and the Antichrist and False Prophet (Revelation 19:20), and has Lucifer (Satan) bound in the bottomless pit for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:1-3).

Jesus will then make the marriage supper of Revelation 19:9 for the obedient part of the church in the earthly Jerusalem (Isaiah 25:6-9; 1 Corinthians 15:54), while the birds will feast on the corpses of the world's defeated armies (Revelation 19:17-18). Then Jesus and the obedient part of the church will rule the surviving nations with a rod of iron for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 2). After the 1,000 years, Lucifer will be released from the bottomless pit and bring about the Gog/Magog rebellion, only to be defeated for the last time (Revelation 20:7-10, Ezekiel chapters 38-39).

At least 7 years after that defeat (Ezekiel 39:9b), the great white throne judgment will occur, in which all those who had not been resurrected and judged at Jesus' return will be resurrected and judged (Revelation 20:11-15). Then God will create a new heaven (a new 1st heaven: a new sky/atmosphere for the earth) and a new earth (a new surface for the earth) (Revelation 21:1; 2 Peter 3:10b,13). Then God the Father will descend from the 3rd heaven in the literal city of New Jerusalem (Revelation 21:2), the Father's house (John 14:2, Revelation 21:3), and he will dwell on the earth with Jesus and the church (Revelation 21:3).

In one area outside the walls of New Jerusalem on the new earth will be the lake of fire (Revelation 22:15, Revelation 21:8), in which all of unsaved humanity will suffer forever in fire and brimstone with Lucifer and his fallen angels (Revelation 20:10,15, Matthew 25:41,46).

masmpg said in post 222:

We are living in the seventh seal, and the seventh trumpet, waiting on the mark of the beast to be set up . . .

Note that Revelation chapters 6 to 22 are chronological insofar as the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 will begin with the events of the 2nd through 6th seals, occurring in the order shown in Revelation 6:3-14. After the events of the 6th seal, Revelation 7 will occur. Then the 7th seal will be unsealed, and out of it will come the tribulation's 7 trumpets (Revelation 8:1-6). Then the events of the first 6 trumpets in Revelation 8:7 to Revelation 9:21 will occur in the order shown there. Then Revelation 10 will occur. Then the literal 3.5 years of the Antichrist's worldwide reign will occur, which time period is shown from 4 different angles in Revelation chapters 11 to 14 (Revelation 11:2b-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5,7, Revelation 14:9-13).

Then the 7th trumpet will sound, announcing the legal end of the Antichrist's reign (Revelation 11:15). Out of the 7th trumpet's heavenly-temple opening will come the 7 plagues of the 7 vials (Revelation 11:19, Revelation 15:5 to 16:1), the tribulation's final stage. Then the events of the 7 vials will occur in the order shown in Revelation 16. Jesus will return right after the 7th and last vial (Revelation 16:17,19, Revelation 19:2-21), and he will rapture and marry the church at that time (Revelation 19:7). Then he will defeat the world's armies (Revelation 19:11 to 20:3) and reign on the earth with the physically resurrected church for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29; 1 Corinthians 15:51-53). Then the events of Revelation 20:7 to Revelation 22:5 will occur in the order shown there.

masmpg said in post 222:

. . . the time is coming where, according to John in revelation 14:9 EVERY MAN will have to choose to either obey God by keeping His law, or the beast by keeping the commandments of men.

Did you mean Revelation 14:12? If so, note that it does not refer to the letter of the commandments of the Old Covenant Mosaic law. For on Jesus' Cross, for both Jews and Gentiles (John 11:51-52), of all times, the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law was completely and forever abolished (Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18), disannulled (Hebrews 7:18), rendered obsolete (Hebrews 8:13, Galatians 3:2-25, Galatians 4:21 to 5:8), taken away and replaced (Hebrews 10:9) by the better hope (Hebrews 7:19), the better covenant (Hebrews 7:22, Hebrews 8:6-12), the 2nd covenant (Hebrews 8:7, Hebrews 10:9), of Jesus' New Covenant law (Galatians 6:2, John 1:17, Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 12:24, Hebrews 9:15), so that the law was changed (Hebrews 7:12).

All believers, both Jews and Gentles, of all times, are delivered from the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, and should not keep it (Romans 7:6; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18, Galatians 2:11-21), or have any desire to keep it (Galatians 4:21 to 5:8, Galatians 3:2-25). Believers keep the spirit of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Romans 7:6) by loving others (Galatians 5:14, Romans 13:8-10), by doing to others as they would have others do to them (Matthew 7:12).

The New Covenant is a new law (Hebrews 7:12,18-19, Hebrews 10:1-23), consisting of Jesus' New Covenant/New Testament commandments (John 14:15), such as those he gave in the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5:19 to 7:29) and the epistles of Paul the apostle (1 Corinthians 14:37). These commandments exceed in righteousness the abolished letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Matthew 5:20-48). So there is no reason why any believer should ever want to go back under the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Galatians 3:2 to 5:26). It was just a temporary schoolmaster (Galatians 3:24-25), a temporary shadow (Colossians 2:16-17), which God set up because of sins long after he had set up the original promise of the Abrahamic Covenant, and long before he brought that promise to fulfillment in Jesus' New Covenant (Galatians 3:16-29, Matthew 26:28).

The letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law has been made obsolete by the New Covenant (Hebrews 8:13). For example, the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law required an Aaronic priesthood (Exodus 30:30), while the New Covenant replaced the Aaronic priesthood with the Melchisedechian priesthood (Hebrews 7:11-28). And the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law required animal sacrifices for sin (e.g. Leviticus 23:19), while the New Covenant replaced these with the one-time sacrifice of Jesus (Hebrews 10).

The letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law is the Hagar to the New Covenant's Sarah (Galatians 4:21-25). So those people, whether Jews or Gentiles, who try to keep the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law are like Ishmael, Abraham's son by a bondmaid (Galatians 4:22), who was cast out (Galatians 4:30), while those people, whether Jews or Gentiles, who keep the New Covenant are like Isaac (Galatians 4:28), Abraham's son by a freewoman (Galatians 4:22,31), who became his heir (Galatians 4:30b).

The letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (including the letter of the 10 commandments) written and engraven in stones (2 Corinthians 3:7, Deuteronomy 4:13, Deuteronomy 27:8) was the ministration of death and condemnation (2 Corinthians 3:7,9). For example, see Leviticus 20:10, Exodus 31:14, and Numbers 15:32-36; and contrast these with the New Covenant's John 8:4-11 and Matthew 12:1-8.

The letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law has been completely and forever done away (2 Corinthians 3:11), abolished (2 Corinthians 3:13b). But it is still able to spiritually blind some people as with a veil from beholding Jesus (2 Corinthians 3:14-16), while the New Covenant is the ministration of the spirit and righteousness (2 Corinthians 3:6,8-9b) which remains (2 Corinthians 3:11b), and which permits believers to remove the veil and to behold Jesus (2 Corinthians 3:16-18, Mark 15:38, Hebrews 7:18-19, Ephesians 2:15-18, Colossians 2:14-17).

But a mistaken spirit of Pharisaism can still sometimes deceive even Christians into thinking that they must keep the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law in order to be saved (Acts 15:1,5), or in order to become perfect (Galatians 3:2 to 5:26). This is a false, cursed gospel (Galatians 1:6-9). For if any believers are keeping any part of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law thinking that they must do so in order to be saved, or in order to become perfect, then Jesus will profit them nothing; they have fallen from grace (Galatians 5:2-8).

 

[Bible2+]

Aryeh said in post 223:

The mark is spiritual, but is vindicated through physical activity.

Note that it is the other way around. For just as Abraham received physical circumcision as a sign of his spiritual righteousness by conscious faith in YHWH God (Romans 4:11), so the future mark of the beast (if it is willingly received) will serve as an physical sign that someone is a conscious worshipper of Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) and of the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") and his speaking image (Revelation 13:4-18).

Aryeh said in post 223:

The mark is spiritual, but is vindicated through physical activity.

In your forehead: the frontal lobe influences behaviors.

Note that the forehead mark of God in Ezekiel 9:4 could have been a physical mark visible to humans, like the mark of God in Genesis 4:15 was visible to humans. Similarly, the future forehead mark (or seal) of God in Revelation 7:3 will be visible to humans. For it will be visible to the physical locust-like beings (Revelation 9:4), and it was visible to John the apostle (Revelation 14:1). Also, the marks (in this case persecution scars) of the Lord Jesus on Paul's body in Galatians 6:17 were visible to humans. So the Antichrist's future mark (probably a scar, purposely applied by scarification) of the Antichrist's name or a representation of the gematrial number of his name (666) (Revelation 13:16-18) will be visible to humans, so that they can easily tell in every situation whether or not someone should be permitted to buy or sell (Revelation 13:17).

 

[Bible2+]

La vérité said in post 225:

Thus if standing before you was, either Christ or the Anti-Christ, here the difference are so massive between the two that you would have to be as stupid as stupid could possibly be to misidentify who it is.

Yet approx. 2,000 years ago, a misidentification of this nature actually occurred ???

That's right, for the Pharisees thought that Jesus (the true Christ) was a deceiver (Matthew 27:63) empowered by Satan himself (Matthew 12:24), because Jesus and his disciples did not keep the letter of the sabbath of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (John 9:16, Matthew 12:2).

But the truth was that Jesus would forever do away with the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic-law sabbath (Colossians 2:16-17, cf. Hebrews 10:1a), just as he would forever do away with all the rest of the letter of the commandments of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, on the Cross (Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17, Romans 7:6; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18, Hebrews 7:18-19). So Jesus and his disciples could break the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic-law sabbath (Exodus 31:15, John 5:17-18, Matthew 12:2). Also, regarding Matthew 12:1-8, the Pharisees were able to distinguish between the Old Covenant Mosaic "law" (Matthew 12:2, Exodus 31:15) and "the tradition of the elders" (Matthew 15:2). And in Matthew 12:1-8, neither the Pharisees nor Jesus made any reference to any extra-legal "traditions". Instead, in Matthew 12:1-8, Jesus admitted that his disciples were breaking the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic-law sabbath. For he employed Old Testament examples in which David also did something "which was not lawful" (Matthew 12:4) and in which priests also "profaned the sabbath" (Matthew 12:5-6), just as at a different time, Jesus stated that he worked on the sabbath (John 5:17-18; cf. Exodus 31:15).

La vérité said in post 225:

Thus if standing before you was, either Christ or the Anti-Christ, here the difference are so massive between the two that you would have to be as stupid as stupid could possibly be to misidentify who it is.

Yet approx. 2,000 years ago, a misidentification of this nature actually occurred ???

Again, oui. And this brings to mind that just as the future Antichrist could make a worldwide television and internet spectacle out of his fulfilling of 2 Thessalonians 2:4 and Daniel 11:36, so his False Prophet could make a worldwide television and internet spectacle out of his fulfilling of Revelation 13:13, when he will miraculously call fire down from heaven in the sight of everyone. He could do this as a Luciferian inversion of 1 Kings 18:19-40. For example, he could first gather together all of the most prominent leaders of the Christian community worldwide to the Champ de Mars (Mars being the same as Marduk the dragon, the chief god of ancient Babylon), which is the large open space in front of the Eiffel Tower in Paris. And he could then tell them during a ceremony televised and webcasted live worldwide to pray to YHWH God to send fire down and destroy the Tower.

And when the Christian leaders pray and YHWH does not do anything (by his own choice), the False Prophet could then pray to Lucifer (the dragon, Satan: Revelation 12:9, Revelation 13:4) to send fire down and destroy the Tower. And Lucifer could do so (allowed to do so by YHWH), so that 1 Kings 18:38-40 will be turned on its head, so that news reporters could write (in their words) "Then the fire of Lucifer fell, and consumed the Eiffel Tower. And when all the people saw it, they fell on their faces. And they said, Lucifer is God, Lucifer is God. And the True Prophet said to them: 'Take these men of YHWH! Let not one of them escape!' And they took them. And the True Prophet brought them down to the river Seine, and slew them there" (as a Luciferian inversion of 1 Kings 18:38-40).

But would YHWH really let something like this happen? Would he let Christians pray to him to send fire down from heaven, but refuse to do so, while allowing Lucifer to send fire down at the beck of the False Prophet? Yes, YHWH could let this happen, as a test to Christians, to see if they love signs and wonders more than YHWH (cf. Deuteronomy 13:1-3). Believers must always remember that not all signs and wonders are from the true God, that Lucifer/Satan can also give people the power to perform them (e.g. 2 Thessalonians 2:9), in order to deceive people (Matthew 24:24-25, Revelation 13:13-14, Revelation 19:20).

The way not to be deceived is to continue to believe that everything the Bible teaches is from God (John 8:31b, Matthew 4:4; 2 Timothy 3:15 to 4:4), no matter how amazing the miracles are of someone who teaches something which contradicts the Bible (Matthew 24:24; 1 Timothy 4:1). And the way to continue to believe that everything the Bible teaches is from God is not to continue in any unrepentant sin. For otherwise our conscience could become seared as with a hot iron (1 Timothy 4:2), to where we could no longer endure the sound doctrine of the Bible, but after our own lusts heap to ourselves teachers who teach us fables which support us in our lusts (2 Timothy 4:3-4), to where we could even become willing to depart from the faith itself, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils (1 Timothy 4:1).

 

[masmpg]

Tough to say how not to be tricked. After all, the intelligence of the mind of the Devil is virtually infinite in scope when compared to that of a mere human mind. However, the human mind is finite in size, thus there is only a finite number of ways in which it may be deceived. Thus you have virtually infinite power that is up against a finite number of forms of possible deceit. So that puts his massive smarts out of business to a degree.

Thus if standing before you was, either Christ or the Anti-Christ, here the difference are so massive between the two that you would have to be as stupid as stupid could possibly be to misidentify who it is.

Yet approx. 2,000 years ago, a misidentification of this nature actually occurred ???

I think you answered your own question. It would be impossible to be deceived if we were living up to what Jesus said in Matthew:4:4: "But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God."

I beg to differ with you on this other point about being able to tell the difference between Christ and antichrist. The ONLY way to tell is if we are living by every word of God. The antichrist is not necessarily opposite, but counterfeit. God has given satan much power to deceive if possible the very elect. IF the antichrist were opposite then we would be able to spot him right off, but satan wants us to have 99% of the truth. The one percent, which will cause the loss of our souls is the doctrine of salvation, which many have no idea what it is. I will only say that if we are not the "very elect" we will be deceived. We have a long way to go to not be deceived.

 

[Bible2+]

masmpg said in post 229:

I beg to differ with you on this other point about being able to tell the difference between Christ and antichrist. The ONLY way to tell is if we are living by every word of God. The antichrist is not necessarily opposite, but counterfeit. God has given satan much power to deceive if possible the very elect. IF the antichrist were opposite then we would be able to spot him right off, but satan wants us to have 99% of the truth. The one percent, which will cause the loss of our souls is the doctrine of salvation, which many have no idea what it is.

Regarding "the doctrine of salvation", the gospel of our salvation (Ephesians 1:13) is that we can be initially saved by believing that Jesus of Nazareth is the Christ and the human/divine Son of God (John 20:31, John 3:36; 1 John 2:23), and that he suffered and died on the Cross for our sins and rose physically from the dead on the third day (1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Luke 24:39,46-47, Matthew 20:19, Matthew 26:28).

And the gospel is that we can be ultimately saved if we continue to believe this to the end (Hebrews 3:6,12,14, Colossians 1:23), and continue to perform good works of faith to the end (Romans 2:6-8; 1 Thessalonians 1:3), and repent from any sin that we commit (Hebrews 10:26-29), and get water-immersion (burial) baptized into Jesus (Mark 16:16, Romans 6:3-11), and partake of Jesus' divine flesh and blood in the bread and wine of communion (John 6:53; 1 Corinthians 11:23-30), and forgive everyone for everything (Matthew 6:14-15), and do all that we can (Romans 12:18) to make reparations to and peace with everyone whom we have ever wronged (Matthew 5:23-26), and help Christians in need (Matthew 25:34-46), and provide for our families (1 Timothy 5:8), and do not blaspheme the Spirit (Mark 3:29), and do not remove words from the book of Revelation (Revelation 22:19), and do not worship the future Antichrist or his image or willingly receive his mark (Revelation 14:9-12), and continue in God's goodness to the end (Romans 11:22), and overcome to the end (Revelation 3:5, Revelation 2:26).

masmpg said in post 229:

The one percent, which will cause the loss of our souls is the doctrine of salvation, which many have no idea what it is.

Regarding "many have no idea what it is", if people do not feel any relationship with God, even though they consider themselves to be Christians, it could be because they have subconsciously hardened their heart against him because of something bad that happened in their life, like the death of a loved one, or the divorce of their parents. They could be subconsciously blaming God for letting that bad thing happen, instead of using his power to keep it from happening. If that is the case, then they need to pray and ask God to bring to their mind whatever is coming between them and him (Psalms 139:23-24), and they need to ask him to help them not to harden their heart against him (Hebrews 3:15).

If people have not become Christians yet, all they need to do in order to become Christians is believe that Jesus of Nazareth is the Christ and the human/divine Son of God (John 20:31, John 3:36; 1 John 2:23), and that he suffered and died on the Cross for their sins and rose physically from the dead on the third day (1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Luke 24:39,46-47, Matthew 20:19, Matthew 26:28).

After people become Christians, to help develop and keep up their relationship with God, they should pray to him every day, such as with the Lord's prayer (Matthew 6:9-13), praising and worshipping him (Revelation 4:11), confessing their sins to him (1 John 1:9), asking him for what they need today (Luke 11:3), and thanking him for everything which he has given them (Philippians 4:6). And throughout the day, they should immediately bring to him in prayer anything which they become worried about at anytime (Philippians 4:6-7).

They should also fellowship with other Christians every day (Hebrews 3:13, Hebrews 10:25), at least in some fashion (Matthew 18:20), such as on this forum, being exhorted by them and exhorting them in turn (Hebrews 3:13).

They also need to examine themselves to make sure that they are truly in the faith (2 Corinthians 13:5, Proverbs 28:26, Proverbs 14:12). The way to do this is to read every word of the Bible (Hebrews 4:12, Matthew 4:4), and see if they accept that everything it teaches came from God (John 8:47; 2 Timothy 3:16). For just as a true faith will initially come from reading (or hearing) what the Bible teaches (Romans 10:17; 2 Timothy 3:15), so people can know that they are remaining in the true faith if they continue to believe that everything the Bible teaches came from God (John 8:31b; 2 Timothy 4:2-4; 1 Timothy 4:1, Mark 8:35-38).

In order to have any real relationship with Jesus, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit (Matthew 28:19), most importantly people must believe the right things about Jesus (John 14:6-7): that he is God the Word made flesh (John 1:1,14), that he is the Christ (1 John 5:1; 1 John 2:22), and that he is the only begotten (only born) Son of God (John 3:16,36; 1 John 2:23), meaning that he is the only person ever born without any human father (Luke 1:34-35). And people must believe that Jesus lived a perfectly sinless life (Hebrews 4:15; 2 Corinthians 5:21) and so could die on the Cross for people's sins and rise from the dead on the third day (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). He rose and will remain forever in an immortal flesh and bones human body (Luke 24:39; 2 John 1:7) as saved people's eternally-human high priest/mediator (1 Timothy 2:5, Hebrews 2:16-17, Hebrews 7:24-26).

Once people come into faith in Jesus, they must obey him, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit by repenting from their sins and getting water-immersion (burial) baptized into Jesus (Acts 2:38, Romans 6:3-5, Galatians 3:27). And they must partake of the divine flesh and blood of the bread and wine of communion (John 6:53, Matthew 26:26-28; 1 Corinthians 10:16; 1 Corinthians 11:27-30). And they can get hands laid on them to receive Holy Spirit baptism (Acts 8:17) and one or more of the Holy Spirit's wonderful Spiritual gifts (Acts 19:6; 1 Corinthians 12:8-10). Then, washed from their sins by water baptism (Acts 22:16), and empowered by the Holy Spirit within them (Acts 1:8, Ephesians 3:16), they must each and every day for the rest of their lives deny themselves, take up their crosses, and follow Jesus (Luke 9:23; 2 Corinthians 5:15), by continuing in the faith to the end (Hebrews 3:6,12,14, Hebrews 6:4-8, John 15:6; 2 Timothy 2:12), by repenting from every sin that they commit (Hebrews 10:26-29; 1 Corinthians 9:27, Luke 12:45-46), and by doing to the end the particular spiritual works which he has given them as individuals to do (Mark 13:34, Romans 12:6-8, Titus 3:8).

But if they as Christians wrongly employ their free will to refuse to do these things, then they cannot expect to have any continued real relationship with Jesus, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit. For a continued real relationship with them requires that people not only continue to believe in them, but also continue to obey them (John 15:10, John 14:21,23). Faith without works is dead (James 2:20), and cannot ultimately save people (James 2:14-26, Romans 2:6-8, Matthew 7:21, Hebrews 5:9).

 

[FredVB]

Hate that the Antichrist will not identify his own self as Christ, even Jesus, but will contradict him, saying, that the truth is in him and he is to be worshipped, even as divine in being. This will have people doing it, in rebellion to Yahweh God and our Jesus Christ, for what they see as miraculous from him, with the false promises.

 

[2404]

Revelation 14:9 ...
'And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice. If any man WORSHIP the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in in hand ...."

To receive the mark on the forehead is to comply and the hand is to labour.

 

[Major1]

To receive the mark on the forehead is to comply and the hand is to labour.

I have to disagree with that idea. To get there you have to read it into the Scriptures.

I believe the simplest answer is to accept what is actually said.....
"And he causeth all, both small and treat, rich and poor, free and bond, TO RECEIVE A MARK in their right hand or in their forehead."
(Rev. 13:16).

 

[Bible2+]

FredVB said in post 231:

. . . the Antichrist will not identify his own self as Christ . . .

Great point.

For "anti"-Christ can simply refer to anyone who is "against" the true Christ, as in any "opponent of the Messiah" (Strong's Greek Dictionary, Word #500: antichristos), as in anyone who denies that Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22), or denies that Jesus is the human/divine Son of God (1 John 2:22b), or denies that Christ is in the flesh (2 John 1:7). The spirit of antichrist (1 John 4:3) has been working since the 1st century AD (2 Thessalonians 2:7), animating many antichrists since that time (1 John 2:18; 2 John 1:7).

And, indeed, nothing requires that the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") will ever claim to be the Messiah/Christ. For his antichrist denial that Christ is in the flesh (1 John 4:3) will disqualify him as a mortal-flesh human (under his mistaken Gnostic doctrine) from being Christ. Instead, the non-mortal-flesh Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) could be the false Christ (i.e. the "Lucifer" Christ, and not the "Jesus" Christ: 1 John 2:22) during the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), which will be in the latter half of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24.

But none of this means that there will not also be multiple, human false Christs who will arise during the tribulation (Matthew 24:24), including one who will be an ultra-Orthodox Jewish false Christ/Messiah. For shortly after the start of the tribulation, the Antichrist could "cut" a peace treaty with an ultra-Orthodox Jewish false "Messiah" (Daniel 9:26a, Daniel 11:22-23a) in Israel, promising this false Messiah and his ultra-Orthodox Jewish followers that they can keep for at least 7 years (Daniel 9:27a) a 3rd Jewish temple (Revelation 11:1) which they will have built on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem.

-

That is, in Daniel 9:26 the original Hebrew word (karath: H3772) translated as "cut off" can refer to when a peace treaty/covenant is "made" (Genesis 21:27). The 1st century AD fulfillment of Daniel 9:26a was at the Crucifixion, when the true Messiah, Jesus, made the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 9:15-17). But a future fulfillment of Daniel 9:26a will be when the Antichrist makes a peace treaty, which will be a fulfillment of the covenant in Daniel 9:27 and the league in Daniel 11:23, with a future, ultra-Orthodox Jewish false "Messiah" in Jerusalem, after he and his followers are militarily defeated by the Antichrist (Daniel 11:22-23). So this future fulfillment of Daniel 9:26a can refer to this false Messiah being "cut off" in the sense of being "covenanted", peace-treatied.

This treaty will allow this false "Messiah" and his followers to keep a 3rd Jewish temple which they will have built on Jerusalem's Temple Mount (after they or great earthquakes have destroyed the Muslim structures there), and to (mistakenly) continue to perform the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices in front of the temple for at least 7 years (Daniel 9:27a), so long as they give up the outer court of the temple (Revelation 11:2a) to the Muslims so that the Muslims can rebuild the (by that time destroyed) Al Aqsa Mosque on the southern end of the Temple Mount and resume worship there. After "cutting" this treaty (Daniel 9:26a), the Antichrist could appear before the "many" (Daniel 9:27) nations represented at the U.N. General Assembly, and "confirm" (Daniel 9:27) that for at least 7 years he will keep this treaty with the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Jerusalem, using this as purported proof to the world that he is (in his words) "a man of peace, and no Hitler".

In Daniel 9:27, "he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease" refers to when, only some 3.5 years after making the peace treaty of Daniel 9:26a,27a and Daniel 11:23a, the Antichrist will break the treaty, attack the 3rd temple, stop the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices, place the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the temple (Daniel 9:27b, Daniel 11:31, Matthew 24:15), and then sit himself (at least one time) in the temple and proclaim himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). Thus could begin the Antichrist's literal, 3.5-year Luciferian (Satanic) worldwide reign of terror (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9; 2 Thessalonians 2:9).

FredVB said in post 231:

. . . the Antichrist will not identify his own self as Christ, even Jesus . . .

Regarding "even Jesus", that's right.

For when Satan (Lucifer, the dragon) is cast down to the earth permanently at the midpoint of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Revelation 12:9,12), he will not claim to be "Jesus" Christ, just as the separate Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast", the man of sin: 2 Thessalonians 2:3b-4,9, Revelation 13:4-18) will not claim that Lucifer (or claim that he, the Antichrist) is "Jesus" Christ. For "anti"-Christ means someone who denies that Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22).

 

[Alawishis]

Are you thinking of "Vicarius Filii Dei", a title of the pope? If so, note that it only equals 666 when by mistake people use the Roman-numeral method of counting the number of a name:

V = 5
I = 1
C = 100
A
R
I = 1
U = 5 (because under this method U is the same as V)
S

F
I = 1
L = 50
I = 1
I = 1

D = 500
E
I = 1

Total = 666

This does not mean that the pope is the Antichrist. It just means that the Roman-numeral method gives false positives. For example:

E
L = 50
L = 50
E
N

G
O
U = 5
L = 50
D = 500

W = 10 (because W = double U = UU = VV)
H
I = 1
T
E

Total = 666

This does not mean that the most important early leader of the SDA-view is the Antichrist. It just means that the SDA-view (or any other view) should not employ the Roman-numeral method of counting the number of a name, instead of the Bible's own method, which is gematria.

First off, if you read my earlier comments the number of the beast is only one identifying characteristic. I said that if one relied on this alone it was certain to lead you astray as it can be applied to many people. I've seen it done for Obama, Hitler and many others.

Secondly, the Ellen White one is silly other than proving my earlier point. If you've read the scriptures on the number of the beast you've probably read that it clearly says that:

Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
~ Revelation 13:18 KJV.​

So trying to apply it to a woman is silly.

Are you thinking of the idea that Daniel 7:25 is referring to a pope changing the time of the sabbath? If so, note that Daniel 7:25 is instead referring to the future Antichrist, who could radically change the calendar, to where he will even get rid of the 7-day week, with its connotation to YHWH and his 7-day creation of the world (Genesis 2:2). For the Antichrist will utterly revile YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36).

The Antichrist could do what the atheists of the French Revolution did: Change the calendar to one consisting of 10-day weeks. Then he could say that every month will consist of three of these 10-day weeks, so that the year will consist of 12 months each with exactly 30 days. But because that makes the year only 360 days long, he could add a (holiday) period at the end of the year consisting of 5 or 6 days.

Like they did in the French Revolution, the Antichrist could also change the names of the 12 months to whatever pleases him. And he could change the names of the 10 days of the week to whatever pleases him.

The Antichrist's changing of "times" could even extend to the hour, minute, and second. He could replace the 60-second minute with a 10-second "new minute", and the 60-minute hour with a 10-new-minute "new hour", so that the decimal-based metric system will finally be extended to time-keeping.

But because the new, 100-second new-hours would mean that there would be 864 new-hours in a day, he could change the length of the second to a "new-second" consisting of about 86.4 of our current seconds, so that there will be exactly 10 new-hours in every day. Times shorter than the new-second would be metric: the deci-new-second, the centi-new-second (about .864 the length of our current second), the milli-new-second, etc.

So the Antichrist's "changing of times" could seem pretty neat to the world (and to metric-system-loving scientists): 10 days in a week, 10 hours in a day, 10 minutes in an hour, 10 seconds in a minute.

This could all be sold to the world as part of a "New World Order", as a way of "finally shedding all of the archaic time-keeping conventions, and replacing them with a modern and scientific system of time-keeping in line with the metric system of weights and measures, which has already proven to be such a boon to mankind".

He could indeed do any of those things you mention, however, I would look for something that would be a concern for our creator. Something to do with worship and/or loyalty to Him. The antichrist is powered by the enemy he will be looking to destroy and destroy the things of God, His reputation, His institutions and His people.

Are you thinking of the idea that the pope is the Antichrist? If so, note that the beast which comes up out of the earth in Revelation 13:11-16 represents the individual man who will become the Antichrist's False Prophet (Revelation 19:20, Revelation 16:13). And he could be a secretly-apostate pope who at some point during his tenure will make a great push for peace and unity between Christianity and Islam. He could say something like: "Why do we fight each other? Are we not all the spiritual children of Abraham and of his God, the one God? Can't we lay aside our foolish, man-made differences of theology, which have done us no good at all, but have only brought us hatred and violence, and unite into one religion of Abraham, one religion of peace, based on love for the one God and love for our fellow man? What is more important than this?"

I didn't say who it was, I just listed the attributes outlined in scripture. I think it fits one power so well it doesn't need to be stated who it is when you look at it. I will say one thing, the great men of the reformation differed on many points, but on this one thing they all agreed, and that's the identity of the antichrist power. These men were all great bible scholars.

The beast that comes out of the earth is the lamb-like beast. Beasts represent kingdoms this would be a kingdom as well. The other beasts arose from the seas and we are told what the seas represent:

And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the harlot sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
~ Revelation 17:15 KJV.​

So logically the lamb-like beast is a kingdom that comes up in an area with relativly little population. It has two horns so it has two governing bodies. It's lamb-like so it would have christ-like properties perhaps built on Christian principles. Also, a lamb is a young animal so this so this is likely a nation just born. It also comes up after the Roman empire and after the deadly wound. The previous beast had crowns on its horns so as to represent monarchies. The lamb-like beast has no horns so no monarchy.

I think from those characteristics it's plain the lamb-like beast is the United States. It's two horns being the Republicans and the Democrats. It arose in an area with very low population. It was founded on Christian principles populated by many Protestants fleeing persecution. I don't think many people would deny that it is now beginning to speak as a dragon, as sad as that is.

He could be so skillful in elucidating what the moderate Muslims could call "the true, peaceful, loving nature of Islam", that he could be hailed by them worldwide as (in their words) "a Great Imam, come to rescue our beloved Islam from the bad reputation falsely given to it by the terrorists". In this way, a pope could come to hold high positions of power in two religions at the same time, which could be symbolized by the two horns of the False Prophet lamb (Revelation 13:11). This would be similar to how the 7 horns of the true-Jesus lamb in Revelation 5:6 could represent the true Jesus holding 7 positions of power at the same time (cf. Jesus wearing many crowns at the same time in Revelation 19:12). The False Prophet could even say that he is Jesus. (But he will not say that he is Christ, for the False Prophet and the Antichrist will deny that Jesus is the Christ, and will deny that Christ is in the flesh: 1 John 2:22; 2 John 1:7.)

If a secretly-apostate pope does become the Antichrist's False Prophet (of Revelation 13:11-16, Revelation 19:20, and Revelation 16:13), adherents of Catholicism will have to decide what their ultimate source of truth is: Is it the pope and the RCC, or God and the Bible? Many adherents of Catholicism who know God and the Bible well and hold to them as their ultimate source of truth will no doubt be utterly aghast at the false doctrines of a False Prophet pope. Such adherents of Catholicism could demand that he be removed for heresy and apostasy, and that the cardinals elect a new pope. But other adherents of Catholicism, including many cardinals, bishops, and priests, could be deceived (along with most of the rest of the world) into believing the False Prophet pope's false doctrines, because of his ability to perform the most amazing miracles (Revelation 13:13-14, Revelation 19:20; cf. Matthew 24:24).

And so a great schism could arise within the RCC. Compare the Akita prophecy: "The work of the devil will infiltrate even into the Church in such a way that one will see cardinals opposing cardinals, bishops against bishops". Many adherents of Catholicism could follow the False Prophet pope, while other adherents of Catholicism could reject him and eventually even elect their own, new pope (or reinstall a former pope who is still alive), whom they could declare to be the "True pope". But this new (or reinstated) "True pope" could then be murdered, along with many of his followers, by the False Prophet pope's soldiers. Compare the 3rd Secret of Fatima: "he [the pope] was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him, and in the same way there died one after another the other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious, and various lay people of different ranks and positions". Could the soldiers firing "arrows" be the Vatican's Swiss Guards, whose weapons and colorful uniforms hark back to the Middle Ages?

After this slaughter, the False Prophet pope could manage to retain the papacy and full control of the Vatican, and through his (deceived) cardinals, bishops, and priests, retain full control of all RCC cathedrals, parishes, churches, etc., throughout the world. And when the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") obtains power over all nations, he and the False Prophet will make war against true, Biblical Christians (whether they are adherents of Catholicism or not) throughout the world, and will physically overcome them and kill them (by beheading) in every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

It is only when the Antichrist has completely broken all the physical power of the true church (which consists of all true believers, whether they are adherents of Catholicism or not: Ephesians 4:4-6) that the future tribulation will end (Daniel 12:7b) and Jesus' 2nd coming will immediately occur, at which time he will physically resurrect and rapture (gather together) the church (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6). And at his 2nd coming, Jesus will tread the winepress of God's wrath alone (Isaiah 63:3, Revelation 19:15-21), and so he/God will get all of the glory for defeating the power of evil on the earth (Deuteronomy 32:39-43). For he/God will not share this glory with the church (cf. Isaiah 42:8-14, Isaiah 26:18).

Already there are many Roman Catholics that are not happy with the direction their church is heading. They see softening of stands on issues long championed by their church. In the end, we can speculate all day on the details of the events to come foretold in prophecy. Really we are best just to stick to the details that God has given us and keep the speculation to the storytellers and street-corner doomsayers. God has given us a great deal of detail of events to come. The main thing we need to do is keep watchful and stay close to Christ and concentrate on building our relationship with him. If we are right with God he will take care of us.

 

[masmpg]

I have to disagree with that idea. To get there you have to read it into the Scriptures.

I believe the simplest answer is to accept what is actually said.....
"And he causeth all, both small and treat, rich and poor, free and bond, TO RECEIVE A MARK in their right hand or in their forehead."
(Rev. 13:16).

But if you read the beginning of the third message it starts out with "If ANY man WORSHIP". The mark of the beast has everything to do with worship not an actual physical mark. Technology might have a part in the setting up of the mark of the beast, but it is not THE mark. Worship comes before the mark. I does not necessarily have to be read "into" scriptures. God's word is spiritual, and must be interpreted as such. Nowhere do we find where God uses, nor used technology to destroy anybody. I do take it as it reads as "IN" and not "ON". Even though we can find uninspired concordances and commentaries to say differently.

 

[Major1]

But if you read the beginning of the third message it starts out with "If ANY man WORSHIP". The mark of the beast has everything to do with worship not an actual physical mark. Technology might have a part in the setting up of the mark of the beast, but it is not THE mark. Worship comes before the mark. I does not necessarily have to be read "into" scriptures. God's word is spiritual, and must be interpreted as such. Nowhere do we find where God uses, nor used technology to destroy anybody. I do take it as it reads as "IN" and not "ON". Even though we can find uninspired concordances and commentaries to say differently.

I believe that God's Word is "Literal" unless specifically told to us that it is not.

It is not the "Mark" or technology but the ACCEPTANCE of the antichrist in place of Christ.

The Mark will be an identifier of people's choice of him over Jesus. That choice for Christ will mean death.

 

[masmpg]

I believe that God's Word is "Literal" unless specifically told to us that it is not.

It is not the "Mark" or technology but the ACCEPTANCE of the antichrist in place of Christ.

The Mark will be an identifier of people's choice of him over Jesus. That choice for Christ will mean death.

I agree that the mark will be an identifier, but it is a conscious decision which God knows. I have wrestled with this issue for a long time. I use to believe in the secret rapture as it was known back then, and even guessing at who the antichrist is, but the more I studied God's word the more I came to realize how complete and profound it really is and how powerful the Comforters guidance is. The thing that I really wrestled with is, if the mark is a chip then how many people would it take to insert the chip into your hand or forehead? Voila you have the mark of the beast. What I have been saying is that even though a chip or credit card, or even a UPC might be a way to enforce the mark these are not the mark because the mark is about our decision to worship either man or God. When laws are passed and enforced that force us to do things contrary to the word of God we must decide. These laws are already being passed and agitated. One of the main issues is the sabbath. Either we will worship God on His holy sanctified and blessed day, which most of Christendom makes such and issue about, or we will be worshipping on man's SUNday, which has no biblical meaning. When that law is passed, and it will be soon, you really might want to consider what I write here.

I agree that the bible is very literal, but The bible even tells us in John:4:23&24: "But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." and again in 1Corinthians:2:14: "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." To decipher the literal interpretation of these is right and good, but to take the spiritual interpretations as literal is quite another issue. It takes much prayer and revelation from the Holy Spirit to understand prophecy. If we use literal interpretation for prophecy we will be looking at all kinds of beasts, and trumpets speaking and seals, and women, and all sorts of prophetic symbology, which is very plainly defined throughout scripture. The Holy Spirit will guide us into all truth, but there comes a time when we must rely totally on the Holy Spirit for revelation and definitions of symbols throughout prophecy. We are told that there is only one interpretation of bible prophecy, and believe me there is NO guessing! God would not give us His word just to leave us guessing. The whole protestant world agreed on much of the definition of the book of revelation, but watering down the word of God has changed all that. All the satanic counterfeits of scriptures, the re writing of dictionaries, and re defining words. Changing history and vilifying our founding fathers and turning the word Protestant into something it is not are all complicit in why the church has strayed off the straight and narrow. God has children in every denomination, but to think any one denomination will be saved corporately is ignorant at best. There is not one denomination that teaches the whole gospel of Jesus. 501c3 will not allow it. Obama changed the rules of the tax exempt status.

 

[Straightshot]

Sounds like SDA doctrine above

This movement has generated many false prophecies and false teachings

 

[Major1]

I agree that the mark will be an identifier, but it is a conscious decision which God knows. I have wrestled with this issue for a long time. I use to believe in the secret rapture as it was known back then, and even guessing at who the antichrist is, but the more I studied God's word the more I came to realize how complete and profound it really is and how powerful the Comforters guidance is. The thing that I really wrestled with is, if the mark is a chip then how many people would it take to insert the chip into your hand or forehead? Voila you have the mark of the beast. What I have been saying is that even though a chip or credit card, or even a UPC might be a way to enforce the mark these are not the mark because the mark is about our decision to worship either man or God. When laws are passed and enforced that force us to do things contrary to the word of God we must decide. These laws are already being passed and agitated. One of the main issues is the sabbath. Either we will worship God on His holy sanctified and blessed day, which most of Christendom makes such and issue about, or we will be worshipping on man's SUNday, which has no biblical meaning. When that law is passed, and it will be soon, you really might want to consider what I write here.

I agree that the bible is very literal, but The bible even tells us in John:4:23&24: "But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." and again in 1Corinthians:2:14: "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." To decipher the literal interpretation of these is right and good, but to take the spiritual interpretations as literal is quite another issue. It takes much prayer and revelation from the Holy Spirit to understand prophecy. If we use literal interpretation for prophecy we will be looking at all kinds of beasts, and trumpets speaking and seals, and women, and all sorts of prophetic symbology, which is very plainly defined throughout scripture. The Holy Spirit will guide us into all truth, but there comes a time when we must rely totally on the Holy Spirit for revelation and definitions of symbols throughout prophecy. We are told that there is only one interpretation of bible prophecy, and believe me there is NO guessing! God would not give us His word just to leave us guessing. The whole protestant world agreed on much of the definition of the book of revelation, but watering down the word of God has changed all that. All the satanic counterfeits of scriptures, the re writing of dictionaries, and re defining words. Changing history and vilifying our founding fathers and turning the word Protestant into something it is not are all complicit in why the church has strayed off the straight and narrow. God has children in every denomination, but to think any one denomination will be saved corporately is ignorant at best. There is not one denomination that teaches the whole gospel of Jesus. 501c3 will not allow it. Obama changed the rules of the tax exempt status.

I would say to you that almost everyone will take the mark. Fathers and mothers have an inbred desire to take care of their children. They will take the mark so that they can feed and take care of their families.

Remember.....everyone on the earth except 2 Jewish men will be lost. IF the Bible is correct and I understand it correctly, the preaching of the 2 preachers will lead 144K Jewish men to be saved. THEY will be preaching through the Tribulation Period and a multitude who reject the mark and come to Christ will be saved.

Those who are saved will be the ones who had not heard the gospel before the Rapture.
2 Thess. 2:8-10 is clear on that.

It has been my understanding that the UPC bar code would be the best way for a mark to be applied and then used as a tracking device as well as a way to purchase food.

I agree that there are symbols in the Revelation. As a "Futurist" I contend that a consistently literal or plain interpretation is to be applied in understanding the book of Revelation. Literal interpretation of the Bible means to explain the original sense, or meaning, of the Bible according to the normal customary usage of its language.

This means applying the rules of grammar, staying consistent with the historical framework, and the context of the writing. Literal interpretation does not discount figurative or symbolic language. As a Futurist I believe that the prophecies using symbolic language are also to be normally interpreted according to the laws of language.

Then, as a "literalist" I am not one who denies that figurative language, that symbols, are used in prophecy, nor d I deny that great spiritual truths are set forth therein: my position is, simply, that the prophecies are to be normally interpreted as any other utterances are interpreted – that which is manifestly figurative being so regarded.

Charles Ryrie stated..........
Charles Ryrie, Dispensationalism (Chicago: Moody Publishers, 2007, 91)

"Symbols, figures of speech and types are all interpreted plainly in this method, and they are in no way contrary to literal interpretation. After all, the very existence of any meaning for a figure of speech depends on the reality of the literal meaning of the terms involved. Figures often make the meaning plainer, but it is the literal, normal, or plain meaning that they convey to the reader.{18}

Futurists acknowledge the use of figures and symbols. When figurative language is used, one must look at the context to find the meaning. However, figurative language does not justify allegorical interpretation.