In U.S., 42% Believe Creationist View of Human Origins

[Loudmouth]

We, however, place a greater value in our own opinions.

That is actually very accurate. Creationists do hold their beliefs in higher esteem than the facts.

 

[KWCrazy]

You can't measure the height of a mountain with a hammer.
You can't keep yourself dry in a rainstorm with a Q tip.
You can't produce physical evidence of the non-physical.
You can't describe the contents of a room you've never seen.
You can't study a God you haven't found any more than you can study a book you haven't found.
The tools we have for testing the physical world around us work well on studying physical things, but they aren't designed to test non-physical things. How, then, does one expect to use said tools to validate or invalidate the existence of something they know nothing about? That's like saying there is definately NOT a Zane Grey novel in my grandfather's room despite the fact that you've never been there and don't know if the room exists.

God, by definition is a supernatural being. Asking for physical evidence of the supernatural only demonstrates a complete lack of understanding between what constitutes natural or supernatural. Moreover, since the only requirement for salvation is faith and faith is the belief in things unproven, then were someone to give you irrefutable proof of God's existence you would then have no chance whatever of salvation. After all, even the the Devil knows God exists, but knowledge didn't save him. The denial of the supernatural is a denial of the greater part of reality since the physical world is transient and the soul of man is eternal. Thus it is not education to become convinced that the physical world is the only reality, it's indoctrination and the closing off of much of our instinctual knowledge. The more you insist that the physical existence is the sum total of all existence the more naive you look.

Intelligent people realize that the auto-origination of everything from nothing is impossible.
Intelligent people realize that the auto-origination of life from non-living material is impossible.
Intelligent people realize that order does not arise from chaos; that symmetry does not arise from randomness and that intricate design requires a designer.
The heavens declare the glory of God. Many simply refuse to listen.

 

[Loudmouth]

The tools we have for testing the physical world around us work well on studying physical things, but they aren't designed to test non-physical things.

What non-physical things? What evidence do you have that any of these things exist? You can hardly expect scientific instruments to measure something that doesn't exist.

 

[MuddSaw]

KW I can A-men most of what u said. For the rest. Every word of my king James Bible is true. It is the preserved word of God. Written by God through the instrument of man. John 1:1 Gods word has been around since before time existed.

Waiting on Jesus

 

[Kenny'sID]

Man didn't make the universe, so your entire argument falls apart. You are simply assuming that natural processes can't produce something more complicated than man can create.

Why are you telling me that? I know man didn't create the universe, what does that have to do with anything? It's a perfectly logical comparison. Nope I'm not assuming a thing, I know for a fact things are created, happens all the time and have never seen anything just come out of nothing of what you call "natural processes" lol....NOT assumption. I've seen a lot of natural processes but still never something from nothing all by itself.....ever. Try all day long to spin things to where that falls apart if you like, but throwing the words out there hardly makes is so...you are going to have to do much better than that pitiful little attempt.

We do have reasons. They are called natural mechanisms.

Doesn't some type of matter have to exist before natural mechanisms can work. now, did you try to slip one by me there?

That would be a God of the Gaps fallacy. "I don't know" is a valid answer if we really don't know. Just because we are ignorant of something does not mean that God did it.

Are you ignorant of the common sense it takes to see that things are created all the time and you have never just sat there and seen something appear form nothing? Are you ignorant that the claim it does come form nothing is hidden in time and no one can prove it because no one can see it? Are you completely ignorant of logic and how it's reasonable to conclude the probability we were created since everything we have ever seen come to be by man was created? Are you ignorant of the fact, you claim science proves it while also claiming science proves nothing? You don't find that just a tad illogical/suspect?

What creator? If you have no evidence for a creator then there is nothing to deny.

What objective evidence?

I just put it all out there for you, but I can't hold your hand and make you see what is right there in front of you...even if it is backed by much more believable evidence than you will ever have.. If your choice of what to see and what not to see weren't so sad, it would be hilarious.

 

[Loudmouth]

Nope I'm not assuming a thing, I know for a fact things are created, happens all the time and have never seen anything just come out of nothing of what you call "natural processes" lol....NOT assumption.

Where is the evidence that the universe was created? Pointing to man creating a Ford Taurus is not evidence for the universe being created.

I've seen a lot of natural processes but still never something from nothing all by itself.....ever.

Evolution is not something from nothing, so I don't see how that applies.

Try all day long to spin things to where that falls apart if you like, but throwing the words out there hardly makes is so...you are going to have to do much better than that pitiful little attempt.

You just described your own argument.

Doesn't some type of matter have to exist before natural mechanisms can work.

Matter existed before man evolved, so I don't see where the problem is. Evolution has humans evolving from a primate ancestor shared with other primates, so again, where is the problem?

Are you ignorant of the common sense it takes to see that things are created all the time and you have never just sat there and seen something appear form nothing?

We don't know where the universe came from, so repeating this nonsense isn't helping. Why couldn't the universe come from something through natural processes?

Are you ignorant that the claim it does come form nothing is hidden in time and no one can prove it because no one can see it?

I am aware of claims that the universe came from a singularity of energy. That is something, last I checked.

I just put it all out there for you, but I can't hold your hand and make you see what is right there in front of you...even if it is backed by much more believable evidence than you will ever have.. If your choice of what to see and what not to see weren't so sad, it would be hilarious.

All you have are bare assertions.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Where is the evidence that the universe was created? Pointing to man creating a Ford Taurus is not evidence for the universe being created.



Evolution is not something from nothing, so I don't see how that applies.



You just described your own argument.



Matter existed before man evolved, so I don't see where the problem is. Evolution has humans evolving from a primate ancestor shared with other primates, so again, where is the problem?



We don't know where the universe came from, so repeating this nonsense isn't helping. Why couldn't the universe come from something through natural processes?



I am aware of claims that the universe came from a singularity of energy. That is something, last I checked.



All you have are bare assertions.

If you aren't going to so much as pay attention to what I write, and you clearly are not, otherwise you wouldn't be asking some of that stuff...there is not much sense in my repeating myself. Acting like a contrary little child and ignoring good arguments, is not going to make the truth go away.

 

[Loudmouth]

If you aren't going to so much as pay attention to what I write, and you clearly are not, otherwise you wouldn't be asking some of that stuff...there is not much since in my repeating myself. Acting like a contrary little child and ignoring good arguments, is not going to make the truth go away.

Look, a man creating a Ford Taurus. This is evidence that the universe is created.

That is what your argument boils down to.

You also seem to ignore the fact that the universe doesn't have to come from nothing. It can come from something through natural processes. This also refutes your entire argument.

Add to that the fact that evolution starts with something. Again, your argument is refuted.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Look, a man creating a Ford Taurus. This is evidence that the universe is created.

That is what your argument boils down to.

You also seem to ignore the fact that the universe doesn't have to come from nothing. It can come from something through natural processes. This also refutes your entire argument.

Add to that the fact that evolution starts with something. Again, your argument is refuted.

Do you really even need evidence that things are created over coming from nothing? You honestly don't get the logic that since I see things created, I feel the universe was created as opposed to since I don't see things come from nothing, so I don't think the universe came from nothing? That's as simple as I can put it for you. Yet you pretend a perfectly good, and rational concept is foolishness?

Then you want to fall back on, "we didn't say it came from nothing". So then where did it come from? "Oh, but we don't need that info". Of course you need that info. Like I said somewhere just a few minutes ago, if I only give you part of the directions, you will never find your way to where you want to go. You have to have all of the info to draw an informed conclusion and throwing out where it came from as not necessary is simply a convenient cop out because you must get rid of that beginning in order to make it even seem like you have any points.

A whole thread was started on that simple and obvious necessity all just to get others to help y'all to justify your denial of the need to know the beginning.

Wow, people.

 

[Loudmouth]

Do you really even need evidence that things are created over coming from nothing?

Do you really need evidence that natural processes create things all of the time? Do you have any evidence that the universe would need to come from nothing if it came about through natural processes?

You honestly don't get the logic that since I see things created,

You don't see anything that is produced by natural processes? Nothing at all? Do rain clouds require a supernatural deity to create them?

Then you want to fall back on, "we didn't say it came from nothing". So then where did it come from?

We don't know where the universe came from, and we certainly haven't established that it had to come from nothing in order to come about through natural processes. Not knowing something does not mean it had to come about through creation by a supernatural deity. 400 years ago we didn't know how lightning was produced. Did that mean it had to come from a supernatural deity?

If a God of the Gaps argument is all you have, then you don't have a logical argument. You have a fallacy.

"Oh, but we don't need that info". Of course you need that info. Like I said somewhere just a few minutes ago, if I only give you part of the directions, you will never find your way to where you want to go.

Do you have to know the origin of the universe in order to give full directions between two cities?

 

[Jimmy D]

Do you really even need evidence that things are created over coming from nothing? You honestly don't get the logic that since I see things created, I feel the universe was created as opposed to since I don't see things come from nothing, so I don't think the universe came from nothing? That's as simple as I can put it for you. Yet you pretend a perfectly good, and rational concept is foolishness?

Then you want to fall back on, "we didn't say it came from nothing". So then where did it come from? "Oh, but we don't need that info". Of course you need that info. Like I said somewhere just a few minutes ago, if I only give you part of the directions, you will never find your way to where you want to go. You have to have all of the info to draw an informed conclusion and throwing out where it came from as not necessary is simply a convenient cop out because you must get rid of that beginning in order to make it even seem like you have any points.

A whole thread was started on that simple and obvious necessity all just to get others to help y'all to justify your denial of the need to know the beginning.

Wow, people.

Where does all this "something coming from nothing" stuff come from? Has anyone ever said that? It's a very foolish strawman.

 

[Cearbhall]

"More than four in 10 Americans continue to believe that God created humans in their present form 10,000 years ago, a view that has changed little over the past three decades. Half of Americans believe humans evolved, with the majority of these saying God guided the evolutionary process."

http://www.gallup.com/poll/170822/believe-creationist-view-human-origins.aspx

Sadly, our education system is not among the best in the world.

 

[joshua 1 9]

A-men bhsmte. Thats another reason why I can't speculate on gap theory.

Your a Baptist and you reject dispensationalism? First I ever heard of that. They do not allow the Scofield Study Bible in your church?

 

[amariselle]

All I'm getting from this is that it takes far more faith to believe in Darwinian evolution than it does to believe in Creation.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Where does all this "something coming from nothing" stuff come from? Has anyone ever said that? It's a very foolish strawman.

We are here, and if we weren't created then where did it all come from? Nothing? a little something that came from nothing? a whole lot of nothing? You have no other explanation so one can only conclude you think it came from nothing...perfectly logical assumption.

But by all means, correct me.

 

[joshua 1 9]

then were someone to give you irrefutable proof of God's existence you would then have no chance whatever of salvation.

There were no atheists in Israel when the people said: "let not God speak with us, lest we die."

20:18 And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off.
20:19 And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.

 

[joshua 1 9]

We are here, and if we weren't created then where did it all come from? Nothing?

1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.

11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

5316 // fainw // phaino // fah'-ee-no //

prolongation for the base of 5457 ; TDNT - 9:1,1244; v

AV - appear 17, shine 10, be seen 2, seem 1, think 1; 31

1) to bring forth into the light, cause to shine, shed light
2) shine
2a) to shine, be bright or resplendent
2b) to become evident, to be brought forth into the light,
come to view, appear
2b1) of growing vegetation, to come to light
2b2) to appear, be seen
2b3) exposed to view
2c) to meet the eyes, strike the sight, become clear or manifest
2c1) to be seen, appear
2d) to appear to the mind, seem to one's judgment or opinion

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

All I'm getting from this is that it takes far more faith to believe in Darwinian evolution than it does to believe in Creation.

No. It really does not.

 

[amariselle]

No. It really does not.

I disagree.

 

[KWCrazy]

There were no atheists in Israel when the people said: "let not God speak with us, lest we die."

20:18 And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off.
20:19 And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.

Way to demonstrate a lack of understanding.
So you never heard of the New Covenant; when Jesus Christ became the blood sacrifice for the removal of sin?
Do you still sacrifice lambs on your altar?
Under the New Covenant we have Jesus Christ as our savior, and faith in Him is the passage to Heaven. Faith is the believe in things unproven.
You DO realize that Jesus came AFTER Moses, right?