When does human life (soul) begin in the womb?

[tonychanyt]

When does human soul life begin?

American Standard Version, Genesis 2:

7 And Jehovah God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

I think the breath of life entered Adam's sphenoid sinus and was stationed there. Accordingly, when a fetus receives a (detached) breath from God at its sphenoid sinus, it becomes a living soul.

By fetus, I mean a human organism with its own distinct DNA from its mother.

Psalm 139:

13 For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother’s womb. 14 I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Wonderful are your works; my soul [H5315 nephesh] knows it very well.

Ensoulment:

In the time of Aristotle, it was widely believed that the human soul entered the forming body at 40 days (male embryos) or 90 days (female embryos), and quickening was an indication of the presence of a soul. Other religious views are that ensoulment happens at the moment of conception; or when the child takes the first breath after being born;[1][2] at the formation of the nervous system and brain; at the first detectable sign of brain activity; or when the fetus is able to survive independently of the uterus (viability).[3]

When does consciousness begin?

According to this Scientific American article:

Consciousness requires a sophisticated network of highly interconnected components, nerve cells. Its physical substrate, the thalamo-cortical complex that provides consciousness with its highly elaborate content, begins to be in place between the 24th and 28th week of gestation.

Elizabeth was pregnant for about half a year, Luke 1:

41 When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.

Wiki:

Some early Christians believed that the embryo did not have a soul from conception,[11][18][19][20] and consequently, opinion was divided as to whether or not early abortion was murder or ethically equivalent to murder.[13][17]

When does the human soul begin?

It is after the sphenoid sinus is formed. The human brain houses the human soul software. Frontal brain activities are good indications.

If we don't know whether a fetus has soul life, is it okay to abort it?

Better to play it safe. Didache believed that abortion was murder.

See also

• What is a human soul?
• What does it mean to be born again?

 

[tturt]

God determines the time and place of our births:
-“And he made from one man every race of men to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted epochs and the fixed boundaries of the places where they would live;” (Acts 17:26)

He formed us:
-“For You formed my innermost parts; You knit me [together] in my mother’s womb” Psa 139:13
-“Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?” Mal 2;10
-“The spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.” Job 33:4
"I will put ligaments on you, place muscles on you, and cover you with skin. I will put breath in you, and you will live. Then you will know that I am Yahweh." Eze 37:6

 

[Cockcrow]

Luke 1:13-15 13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.

14 And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.

15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

The Bible says about the John the Baptist, that he was filled with the Holy Ghost even from his mother's womb.

 

[Cockcrow]

Isaiah 7:14 Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son Matthew 1:23 - Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son

Matthew quotes the OT passage from Isaiah yet instead of conceive he says "shall be with child" this biblically proves conceive = with child. Life begins at conception.

Deuteronomy 30:19 “I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:”

the term "pro life" is straight from the bible, it says choose life. That is why the media will use the term anti abortion instead of pro life. Really they should call "pro choice, pro death because that's what it is, death. God said in Proverbs 8:36 all they that hate me love death.

 

[tonychanyt]

the term "pro life" is straight from the bible, it says choose life.

See Is aborting a baby murder? and follow up there.

 

[Joseph G]

Jeremiah 1:5 NIV

"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
before you were born I set you apart;
I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”

 

[tonychanyt]

Jeremiah 1:5 NIV

"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
before you were born I set you apart;
I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”

So, precisely when does human life (soul) begin in the womb?

 

[Joseph G]

So, precisely when does human life (soul) begin in the womb?

I would say even before the womb, in the mind of God. How else would he "know" you unless you were already a living being?

 

[tonychanyt]

I would say even before the womb, in the mind of God. How else would he "know" you unless you were already a living being?

See Is God omniscient?

 

[Joseph G]

See Is God omniscient?

Ok, I read it. Your point?

 

[BeyondET]

Light of Zinc Spark

 

[Joseph G]

Light of Zinc Spark

That would account for the physical being, but what about the spiritual being? Isn't it conceivable that God could form the spiritual being in His mind before assigning it's vessel?

Example: your response. Did it exist only after you typed it, or did you form it in your mind first?

 

[tonychanyt]

Ok, I read it. Your point?

God knows you before you have existed because he knows everything.

 

[Joseph G]

God knows you before you have existed because he knows everything.

Agreed - because He exists outside of time, right? But the verse I provided commits the actual creation of our soul to a point in time - "Before I formed you in the womb..."

 

[tonychanyt]

Agreed - because He exists outside of time, right?

Right.

But the verse I provided commits the actual creation of our soul to a point in time - "Before I formed you in the womb..."

Before I formed you in the womb within space-time, I knew you already outside of space-time in my mind.

 

[Joseph G]

Right.

Before I formed you in the womb within space-time, I knew you already outside of space-time in my mind.

Ok, I'll take a stab at what I think you're saying. That He knew you before He created you, because He also exists at the point in space-time when He creates you? So you don't exist until simultaneously created with your body?

Isn't that limiting Him to creating only what can be contained in the physical - what can be seen? How would that account for the existence of the spiritual realm - which is unseen?

My head is starting to hurt...

 

[tonychanyt]

Ok, I'll take a stab at what I think you're saying. That He knew you before He created you, because He also exists at the point in space-time when He creates you?

Right, God is omnipresent.

So you don't exist until simultaneously created with your body?

You first existed when the breadth of God entered your body. Before that, the body wasn't yours. Your soul was formed when God's breadth interacted with the fetus inside your mother's womb. See What happens to your soul when you die?.

Isn't that limiting Him to creating only what can be contained in the physical - what can be seen?

No, God created the angels, dark matter, gravity, etc.

How would that account for the existence of the spiritual realm - which is unseen?

Exactly.

My head is starting to hurt...

Take a cup of tea and relax

 

[Joseph G]

Right, God is omnipresent.


You first existed when the breadth of God entered your body. Before that, the body wasn't yours. Your soul was formed when God's breadth interacted with the fetus inside your mother's womb. See What happens to your soul when you die?.


No, God created the angels, dark matter, gravity, etc.


Exactly.


Take a cup of tea and relax

Makes sense. Thanks, Tony! (I prefer fruit juice, though).

 

[BeyondET]

That would account for the physical being, but what about the spiritual being? Isn't it conceivable that God could form the spiritual being in His mind before assigning it's vessel?

Example: your response. Did it exist only after you typed it, or did you form it in your mind first?

God is light, why wouldn't souls be a form of light?

 

[stevevw]

When does human soul life begin?

American Standard Version, Genesis 2:


I think the breath of life entered Adam's sphenoid sinus and was stationed there. Accordingly, when a fetus receives a (detached) breath from God at its sphenoid sinus, it becomes a living soul.

By fetus, I mean a human organism with its own distinct DNA from its mother.

Psalm 139:

In Jeremiah 1:5 God says, “Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you;. So it seems our soul or spirit is around somewhere before we are even concieved or at least was destined to become a soul with conception. Our DNA is a unique identification of every human as an individual.

Ensoulment:

When does consciousness begin?

According to this Scientific American article:

Elizabeth was pregnant for about half a year, Luke 1:

Wiki:

When does the human soul begin?

It is after the sphenoid sinus is formed. The human brain houses the human soul software. Frontal brain activities are good indications.

If we don't know whether a fetus has soul life, is it okay to abort it?

Better to play it safe. Didache believed that abortion was murder.

I think consciousness and the soul are related and I don't think it takes a complex arrangment of brain nuerons to make consciousness. There may be certain configurations but some consciousness has been known in people with only a small amount of brain tissue or even clinically dead.

In that sense I think consciousness works in degrees right down to rudimentary consciousness. Just as the Bible mentions in Romans 8:19 "For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed".

So I think even living cells even bacteria have some degree of consciousness even if thats sensing their surroundings and being able to self replicate and repair itself. We know that bacteria senses heat and other sources of food or threat and are highly organised.

So I think in that sense even first conception can involve some consciousness of the unique individual just like the conception is the rudimental instructions for making a unique person.

I think humans are the pinciple of consciousness where we have greater consciousness than all other creatures and this seems to relate to our soul or that something of us that is beyond us and lives on after we pass away.

I think the universe is conscious in a way and perhaps this is 'God consciousness' fundementally to varying degrees, God being the sustainers and order of everything.

So in that sense human consciousness can tap into the global consciousness in greater ways than other creatures that allows us to know God and His creation through our experiences as well as each other and reality itself beyond the material.