Why is Pope Francis unpopular among Catholics?

[FireDragon76]

Yep. Chastising Catholics for being staunch.

Most of the stuff people associate with being a "staunch Catholic" is not stuff I'd hold up as an example of the best of Catholicism or Christian charity. Dour demeanors, scornful, rigid moralism directed at the less-devout or non-Catholics, and obsessing about the mint and dill of religion... it's not a way to make your religion attractive.

 

[FireDragon76]

That reminds me of the line - I am not sure where it originated - that the job of the clergy is to "comfort the afflicted, and afflict the comfortable."

That was Luther, and he was speaking of preaching. I see any quote by Luther falling on Catholic ears having a snowball's chance in... that other place.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Can someone explain to me why Francis is unpopular with Catholics, especially with from what I've seen on this site. From the outside, I don't understand it, he's humble, serves the poor, passionate about ecumenism, speaks out against the evils in the world, and haven't seen him say anything that goes against the teachings of the RCC.

I believe it's because people think they can accept secular news about religious issues at face value. In other words, if you want to know what <insert person's name here>, read what he/she said or watch direct video of what he/she said. Don't rely on the news outlets to tell you what they said. So, when Pope Francis says something that doesn't sound quite right in religious terms, go, check it out yourself. Find it, read it in context, and then you'll know what he really said. But also understand that the pope has no authority outside of matters of faith and morals. So when he says he believes in Man-made Global Warming, that does not mean we have to agree with him. There's a principal of stewardship of the earth that we should all be beholden to, but that doesn't mean we must believe what he believes.

 

[Root of Jesse]

That was Luther, and he was speaking of preaching. I see any quote by Luther falling on Catholic ears having a snowball's chance in... that other place.

Why not? That's a reasonable saying. I can wholeheartedly agree with Luther there.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Good question. I'm not sure either. Granted he isn't Pope Benedict, but who is? Me I think it has to do with expectations. Everyone was expecting him to be either conservative or liberal, and when he just toed the line of orthodoxy, which has elements found in conservatism and liberalism, he just POed the these parties within the Church. The other issue, is that he is probably the most mis-quoted pope in our timeframe. And a lot of people feel that it is his responsibility to make sure that he isn't mis-quoted, instead of the media doing their jobs without bias.

I know a parish priest like that. He's perfectly orthodox, and when he chose to give some of his (rich) parish's money to defray a poorer parish's debt, they balked and found a way to get him ousted.

 

[FireDragon76]

Why not? That's a reasonable saying. I can wholeheartedly agree with Luther there.

I was half-kidding. I expect Catholics would agree with a lot of what Luther said. But don't let traditionalists on either side hear you say that.

I think Pope Francis is good stuff. Benedict XVI was a great theologian but did way too much finger-waving and scolding.

 

[Rhamiel]

But it's still based on assumptions. church attendance is no guarantee of a superior understanding of the bible or church teaching.
suggesting that 75% of the church is unworthy of having a valid opinion on the pope is just voter suppression.
I could easily make a claim that converts with fewer than"X" years in the church don't have a valid field of experience with the papacy and therefore they shouldn't be counted.
But the truth of it is all sorts of people identify as Catholic. And their vote counts.

it does not guarantee superior understanding of the Bible or Church teaching, but it should be understood that it is an indicator of familiarity
we only pretend equality when it comes to politics
if I get 1 doctor and 5 high school drop outs, and we take a vote on "how effective do you think chicken pox vaccine is" we are not going to say "oh well we voted fair and square"
and to be honest, that idea of seeing how long a convert has been a member of the Church is not a bad idea when taking these things into consideration

That was Luther, and he was speaking of preaching. I see any quote by Luther falling on Catholic ears having a snowball's chance in... that other place.

it is not a bad saying, but it is overly simplistic, so maybe we should say, it is good for what it is

when good Christian folk are being called bigots and being spit at because they want to keep 45 year old men in skirts out of the women's locker room at the gym, I think it might be time to re calibrate who you see as "comfortable"

 

[Rhamiel]

I was half-kidding. I expect Catholics would agree with a lot of what Luther said. But don't let traditionalists on either side hear you say that.

I think Pope Francis is good stuff. Benedict XVI was a great theologian but did way too much finger-waving and scolding.

scolding?

I thought we were supposed to "afflict the comfortable"?

maybe it is because he is Germans, for some reason (or maybe II reasons) Germans are much more frightening then Argentinians

 

[FireDragon76]

I thought we were supposed to "afflict the comfortable"?

I would not describe most secular Europeans as being "comfortable", in the sense that Luther would have understood the term. For one thing, Luther lived during a time when God and faith were much more present in ordinary life. "Comfortable" for Luther means something much more like the Catholic term "presumptive".

 

[LivingWordUnity]

But also understand that the pope has no authority outside of matters of faith and morals.

That's an important point.

 

[Paidiske]

they feel more comfortable with their Catholicism now? is it because Benedict XVI was high ranking in the Vatican under JP II and they feel he was partly responsible for the abuse crises?

That might be part of it.

But what I observe is that the things that the current Pope is pushing - concern for poverty, for social justice, for peace on the world stage etc - these are the big-picture things that many Catholics who want to be involved in a movement that actually makes a difference are passionate about. They are excited and encouraged to find a Pope who is talking about the things they really want to put their time and energy and talents towards.

Someone upthread said that this Pope doesn't focus on holiness, and - I was thinking about that while I was doing other things today - I found that so strange, because I thought concern for the poor and vulnerable was radical holiness. And I think for many people, holiness is more to be found in feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, bringing peace to the war-ravaged, etc, than in pious devotions (however good those might also be).

So these people now have a Pope they feel "speaks their language" when it comes to holiness. And it gives them joy in being a Catholic again.

FWIW, I find the current Pope much easier to relate to and be inspired by than either of his two predecessors, but I recognise that in this forum, that might not go down in his favour!

 

[Rhamiel]

concern for poverty, for social justice, for peace on the world stage etc

The last two popes were all for these things too

probably all of the Popes for the last 100 years
but I have only been alive for 3 popes

 

[Meowzltov]

Someone upthread said that this Pope doesn't focus on holiness, and - I was thinking about that while I was doing other things today - I found that so strange, because I thought concern for the poor and vulnerable was radical holiness. And I think for many people, holiness is more to be found in feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, bringing peace to the war-ravaged, etc, than in pious devotions (however good those might also be).

I DO understand what you are saying. For myself, I am more of the same mind as Cursillo, that the "radicalness" is found in the fulfillment of three things: actions (good works such as social justice), piety (here is your conventional holiness), and study (self explanatory). To pursue any one of these at the expense of the others is not a good thing.

 

[s_gunter]

I was half-kidding. I expect Catholics would agree with a lot of what Luther said. But don't let traditionalists on either side hear you say that.

I think Pope Francis is good stuff. Benedict XVI was a great theologian but did way too much finger-waving and scolding.

Pope Francis is good stuff, so was Pope Benedict XVI. Maybe we needed the finger-waving and scolding. Maybe we still do, but just on different matters, and I see Pope Francis doing that. Pope Benedict XVI made/makes (since he still publishes) us get our doctrine/dogma right. Pope Francis constantly reminds us to execute it with love, not hate.

 

[Winter]

Can someone explain to me why Francis is unpopular with Catholics, especially with from what I've seen on this site. From the outside, I don't understand it, he's humble, serves the poor, passionate about ecumenism, speaks out against the evils in the world, and haven't seen him say anything that goes against the teachings of the RCC.

In a nutshell:
If you are a liberal Catholic American, you love him.
If you are a conservative Catholic American, he raises eyebrows.

Of course there are exceptions to the above. But this is what I've seen in my own community.

As for the rest of the Catholics throughout the world, I don't know what they think of him.

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

People please just ignore post #75 in this thread until the mods have had time to moderate this thread.

I wish I were able to temporarily close this thread, but for some reason I cannot.

Again please IGNORE it.
- Thanks.

 

[pdudgeon]

I would say it's not so much that he's unpopular, as he's just a somewhat controversial figure. That controversy tends to stem from his commentary either being taken out of context by us, or the media running with a soundbite and manipulating it to make it sound as if the Catholic Church is on the road to becoming something it would never actually become.

There are some groups who preferred Benedict XVI's papacy because he was more traditional, more theologically-oriented and more pastoral in the sense that he worked hard to see to it that his flock was looked after. In their eyes at least, I think Francis seems more concerned with people outside of the Church than those within it. Whether that's an accurate perception, I don't know.

agreed.

in one sense we're in a 'between' time. The crowds have been preached to, everyone's back in the boat ready to cross over to the other side, and a storm comes up. the waves are high and threaten to overcome the boat and Jesus sleeps soundly through it.
In a sense we've forgotten that before we crossed over the first time Jesus told us that we would return--hence why He can sleep through the storm that we are experiencing. And why the Pope feels comfortable reaching out to those outside of the Church, feeling that those inside are already safe and secure. (despite the raging storm all around us which others deny, and that nontheless threatens to swamp our boat.)
all we can do is sit and wait for God to act, and pray.

 

[RKO]

What few of us Catholics want to admit is that there are two Roman churches. The leaders fight amongst themselves and conservative and liberals in the pews are at all out war.
It's sad, and I'm pretty sure it's not what was intended. And before a conservative jumps on this, this situation has been around for years, well before any of the last few popes. If you suggest it's only because of Francis, that's because you agreed with the two prior. You would have HATED John XXIII

 

[pdudgeon]

That might be part of it.

But what I observe is that the things that the current Pope is pushing - concern for poverty, for social justice, for peace on the world stage etc - these are the big-picture things that many Catholics who want to be involved in a movement that actually makes a difference are passionate about. They are excited and encouraged to find a Pope who is talking about the things they really want to put their time and energy and talents towards.

Someone upthread said that this Pope doesn't focus on holiness, and - I was thinking about that while I was doing other things today - I found that so strange, because I thought concern for the poor and vulnerable was radical holiness. And I think for many people, holiness is more to be found in feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, bringing peace to the war-ravaged, etc, than in pious devotions (however good those might also be).

So these people now have a Pope they feel "speaks their language" when it comes to holiness. And it gives them joy in being a Catholic again.

FWIW, I find the current Pope much easier to relate to and be inspired by than either of his two predecessors, but I recognise that in this forum, that might not go down in his favour!

actually the weather is shifting here in OBOB, so for most, your comments would be well received indeed.
(and the rest of us like and respect you anyway. )