Someone Please Explain Olive Tree Theology

[StanJ]

I believe in a physical resurrection of the dead in Christ (to glorified bodies) (1 Thessalonians 4:14, 16; Matthew 5:28-29, 1 Corinthians 15:20-23, 1 Corinthians 15:51-53, Revelation 20:4-6).

Well that's good, and as ONLY The Dead In Christ will rise and those in the tribulation won't be considered dead in Christ, then that oughta tell you when he's returning.

I believe in a physical resurrection of those outside of Christ, too, after Jesus' thousand year reign. I believe they will live forever in torment in the Lake of Fire (Revelation 20:14-15, Revelation 14:9-11).

Apparently you missed the last part of Revelation 20:14 that says those that get tossed into the Lake of Fire experience the second death?
Eternal life is only for the believer. The Lake of Fire is a metaphorical place that depicts the separation of the souls from God that were not found written in the Book of Life.

 

[StanJ]

You didn't want to challenge it and I can't force you. But if you changed your mind, let me know where Scripture teaches a pre-Tribulation gathering.

I'm pretty sure I was in the midst of challenging it when you posted you wanted to back out?

 

[Luke17:37]

Well that's good, and as ONLY The Dead In Christ will rise and those in the tribulation won't be considered dead in Christ, then that oughta tell you when he's returning.



Apparently you missed the last part of Revelation 20:14 that says those that get tossed into the Lake of Fire experience the second death?
Eternal life is only for the believer. The Lake of Fire is a metaphorical place that depicts the separation of the souls from God that were not found written in the Book of Life.

Yeah, those who die in the Tribulation are part of the dead in Christ. Revelation 20:4-6 specifically cites the beheaded who died because of their testimony or because they didn't take the mark of the beast. It calls their ressurection the first resurrection. Therefore, there is no resurrection before it and before the Tribulation.

So you don't believe in eternal death (torture) in the physical Lake of Fire? Well, I do. And that would seem to be consistent with Jesus' teachings (the parable of Lazarus and the rich man) and with this very clear passage (a warning concerning those who would take the mark of the beast):

Revelation 14:10-11
10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

Nothing gives the impression that God will let them burn up and cease to exist.

 

[Luke17:37]

I'm pretty sure I was in the midst of challenging it when you posted you wanted to back out?

Oh, I guess this just sounded like you weren't interested in continuing a conversation with me:

I just showed you why and there are other places Jesus' pre-trib return is also shown. It's not complicated then neither is the Bible unless you make it so. Post #59 gave you a lot of scriptural information, so I don't feel that it's necessary for me to repeat it, you can read it for yourself.

Go ahead, though.

 

[dfw69]

Really? You think heaven has a mountain?

Yes I sure do

Heaven has many things ... New Jerusalem is built in heaven.. There is a mountain and a throne and a temple ..a sea of glass ...I don't think heaven is much different than earth just spiritual and invisible to the eye

 

[dfw69]

Why would a large hill made of dirt be in heaven? Most mountains are old volcanoes or made from various tectonic plate shifts....none of that relates to heaven. It's just a common misinterpretation to think there are mountains in heaven.

It's a spiritual mountain not like earth made up of dirt but another substance a spiritual substance ... I don't thing God and Jesus and the Angels are just floating in space ... Jesus literally sits at the right hand of the father on his throne ... Why would Jesus say seek heavenly things if there is nothing to seek after in heaven ?

 

[ewq1938]

It's a spiritual mountain not like earth made up of dirt but another substance a spiritual substance ...

Ok, so any scripture to support this belief?

 

[dfw69]

I believe in a physical resurrection of the dead in Christ (to glorified bodies) (1 Thessalonians 4:14, 16; Matthew 5:28-29, 1 Corinthians 15:20-23, 1 Corinthians 15:51-53, Revelation 20:4-6).

I believe in a physical resurrection of those outside of Christ, too, after Jesus' thousand year reign. I believe they will live forever in torment in the Lake of Fire (Revelation 20:14-15, Revelation 14:9-11).

but if a resurrection of your loved ones happen in your lifetime and they invite us to heaven you would want go right?

Do you believe we will be gathered to Jerusalem and surrounding areas in the land of Beulah when Jesus returns?....

 

[dfw69]

Ok, so any scripture to support this belief?

The scripture speaks for itself ... John was taken to heaven and saw God on the throne and the lamb 24 elders 4 creatures ect ect he saw the temple the sea of glass new Jerusalem coming down its all there for you to believe

 

[ewq1938]

The scripture speaks for itself ... John was taken to heaven and saw God on the throne and the lamb 24 elders 4 creatures ect ect he saw the temple the sea of glass new Jerusalem coming down its all there for you to believe

He saw a lot of things in heaven but he never writes that there is a "spiritual" mountain in heaven. You do know he saw things on the Earth too right? Like Christ with his saints on Mt Sion at the second coming...

 

[dfw69]

He saw a lot of things in heaven but he never writes that there is a "spiritual" mountain in heaven. You do know he saw things on the Earth too right? Like Christ with his saints on Mt Sion at the second coming...

You'll see one day ..

 

[Luke17:37]

but if a resurrection of your loved ones happen in your lifetime and they invite us to heaven you would want go right?

Do you believe we will be gathered to Jerusalem and surrounding areas in the land of Beulah when Jesus returns?....

We both know that I don't believe there's any gathering before the resurrection at Jesus' return. I don't expect to survive the Tribulation so I believe I'll be there as one of the resurrected.

I believe we will live on the earth and reign with Jesus for the thousand years. Since we are reigning with Him, I think it makes sense that not all of us will live in Israel (or Beulah) during this time. He will probably give some of us responsibilities in other nations. There will be some survivors from other nations (Zechariah 14:16) and they will be subject to Him.

 

[dfw69]

He saw a lot of things in heaven but he never writes that there is a "spiritual" mountain in heaven. You do know he saw things on the Earth too right? Like Christ with his saints on Mt Sion at the second coming...

I found one for you Hebrews 12:22

My Zion in heaven

 

[dfw69]

We both know that I don't believe there's any gathering before the resurrection at Jesus' return. I don't expect to survive the Tribulation so I believe I'll be there as one of the resurrected.

I believe we will live on the earth and reign with Jesus for the thousand years. Since we are reigning with Him, I think it makes sense that not all of us will live in Israel (or Beulah) during this time. He will probably give some of us responsibilities in other nations. There will be some survivors from other nations (Zechariah 14:16) and they will be subject to Him.

Yes I know but say a past love one returns to you from the grave on Firstfruits and says to you ... The acceptable jubilee year of the lord is here to set us free from the bondages of the world to invite us to gods house to recieve the promises of eternal life ..all made possible by Jesus fulfilling the law for you... What will your reaction be?

 

[ewq1938]

I found one for you Hebrews 12:22

My Zion in heaven

It says heavenly Jerusalem not a heavenly Mt Sion.

 

[Jipsah]

Y Again, what makes the Preterist or Amillennialist jump up and down is literal Bible interpretation

You mean like when the Revelator said "soon" and "at hand" and "at the door" he might actually have meant it? Or saying that the 70 weeks of Daniel was actually (Gasp!) 490 years, just as he said? Or that when our Lord told His followers that they'd see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, that they really would? Without adding an arbitrary "gap" or time shift, or codswallop about "God's time" in order to keep their baseless doctrines afloat?

Oh, I forgot, that's the futurists and dispensationalists who have to explain away those Scriptures, and many like them, to give their nonsensical doctrines the pretense of having a Scriptural basis when in fact they do not.

And then they want to prattle about "literal interpretations"! Talk about having more nerve than a bad tooth!

But we need the futuristas to keep us apprised of the identity of the Antichrist du jour, and precisely when he'll "take the stage".

 

[Jipsah]

So you don't believe in eternal death (torture) in the physical Lake of Fire?

Is it death or torture? Which one does Scripture say it is?

 

[dfw69]

It says heavenly Jerusalem not a heavenly Mt Sion.

How can you not see what Paul is teaching here? He says we come to mt Zion to the city of the living God the heavenly Jerusalem ...the city of peace and brotherly love built in heaven where the Angels are ...this is the Christians future home to see God face to face to behold him ...the promise for our faith in the fulfillment of the law by Christ for us

 

[dfw69]

Is it death or torture? Which one does Scripture say it is?

The second Death is eternal separation

 

[ewq1938]

How can you not see what Paul is teaching here? He says we come to mt Zion to the city of the living God the heavenly Jerusalem ..

He does not say Mt Sion is a city not does he say it's a heavenly mountain. It isn't a city. Mt Sion is a mountain near Jerusalem, where new Jerusalem will be.