Someone Please Explain Olive Tree Theology

[ewq1938]

Again, living requires the body and soul to be as one.

No, that is required for the body to be alive.

You don't live if your soul is separated from God, you are dead your soul continues for eternity.

Please prove this with scripture.

 

[StanJ]

No, that is required for the body to be alive.

Come again?

 

[parousia70]

Perhaps to teach future generations not to sin against God ...

Perhaps

Will you love God less if he created eternal damnation for satans followers ?....

Um, no.

We should be glad and rejoice God made a way to escape eternal damnation through Jesus righteousness

Agreed on all counts.. I was simply attempting to point out the contradiction with those who hold both views:
1) Sin and Suffering will one day be completely wiped from all existence
2) Satan, His angels and all His followers will Suffer in their Sin for all eternity

Both can not be true

 

[parousia70]

It would probably be more appropriate to speak of Sephardic Jews (Spain, Portugal, North Africa and the Middle East and their descendants) vs Ashkenazic (Jews of France, Germany, and Eastern Europe, Russia), but they all do consider themselves as Jews, and only God knows to which tribes they can trace their ancestry. Christ will certainly sort them out when He returns.

So Just because you or I "consider ourselves Gentiles", When Jesus returns, if he determines we have more Abrahamic blood than some of our neighbors who "consider themselves Jews", Then you and I, instead of them, get assigned by Him, to do... what? Jewish stuff....?

Is that what you are saying?

 

[victorinus]

Hello!

In Romans 11, Paul compares Israel to an olive tree

you may find this interesting
-
just search the bible for two olive trees
and
you will find zechariah 4 and zerubbabel who is always associated with joshua

joshua is a priest representing the church
zerubbabel is minister of the state

the two witnesses of the apocalypse are the church and state

 

[Job8]

So Just because you or I "consider ourselves Gentiles", When Jesus returns, if he determines we have more Abrahamic blood than some of our neighbors who "consider themselves Jews", Then you and I, instead of them, get assigned by Him, to do... what? Jewish stuff....?

Is that what you are saying?

No. What I am saying is that regardless of how much or how little people many know about their ancestry, God knows precisely who belongs to which tribe of Israel. Thus even while Israel was in the Diaspora (and ten tribes were considered as "lost tribes") during the time that the book of Revelation was being written, God showed John a vision of the future where 12,000 redeemed Jews from each of the 12 tribes were sealed and then taken up to Heaven. That is also exactly how God will know how to establish the twelve tribes in the Promised Land in the future.

 

[Job8]

This is why I really don't like the King James version. Too many people really don't understand what Elizabethan English really means In today's vernacular.
James 5:20 (NIV)
remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins.

While this may be slightly off topic, your comments require a response. The NIV has paraphrased this verse, but the KJV has given us a word-for-word translation. And it should n ot have been "them" but "an individual" (as below).

Scrivener's Textus Receptus 1894
γινωσκέτω ὅτι ὁ ἐπιστρέψας ἁμαρτωλὸν ἐκ πλάνης ὁδοῦ αὐτοῦ σώσει ψυχὴν ἐκ θανάτου, καὶ καλύψει πλῆθος ἁμαρτιῶν.

Strong's Concordance
psuché: breath, the soul
Original Word:ψυχή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech:Noun, Feminine
Transliteration:suché
Phonetic Spelling:soo-khay'
Short Definition:the soul, life, self
Definition (a) the vital breath, breath of life, (b) the human soul, (c) the soul as the seat of affections and will, (d) the self, (e) a human person, an individual.

 

[StanJ]

While this may be slightly off topic, your comments require a response. The NIV has paraphrased this verse, but the KJV has given us a word-for-word translation. And it should n ot have been "them" but "an individual" (as below).
Scrivener's Textus Receptus 1894
γινωσκέτω ὅτι ὁ ἐπιστρέψας ἁμαρτωλὸν ἐκ πλάνης ὁδοῦ αὐτοῦ σώσει ψυχὴν ἐκ θανάτου, καὶ καλύψει πλῆθος ἁμαρτιῶν.
Strong's Concordance
psuché: breath, the soul
Original Word:ψυχή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech:Noun, Feminine
Transliteration:suché
Phonetic Spelling:soo-khay'
Short Definition:the soul, life, self
Definition (a) the vital breath, breath of life, (b) the human soul, (c) the soul as the seat of affections and will, (d) the self, (e) a human person, an individual.

The KJV is not inspired and is simply a formally equivalent translation. The difference between it and the NIV is that the NIV uses functional equivalency. In other words it is more accurate in the modern rendering of thoughts than the KJV is.
Being a person who happens to be bilingual, I can assure you that no language can be translated word for word. If you don't believe me, read Young's Literal Translation, and tell me just how much sense it makes to you.
Thanks but I'll trust the credentialed scholars that translated our Modern English versions. King James himself interfered way too much with the KJV. He was an armchair quarterback who thought he was a translator. 400 years ago when the King of England and the head of the Church of England tells you what to write you pretty much do what you're told.

 

[parousia70]

No. What I am saying is that regardless of how much or how little people many know about their ancestry, God knows precisely who belongs to which tribe of Israel.

Ok, and by your seeming admission, for all we know, NOBODY who Identifies as a Jew Today belongs to any of them.
Far all we know, the only people who belong to any of the tribes identify themselves as gentiles today.

So, faced with such blatant ignorance on our part, why throw your lot behind any group today who CLAIMS to know even a fraction of what you say no one but God CAN know?

 

[dfw69]

Perhaps



Um, no.



Agreed on all counts.. I was simply attempting to point out the contradiction with those who hold both views:
1) Sin and Suffering will one day be completely wiped from all existence
2) Satan, His angels and all His followers will Suffer in their Sin for all eternity

Both can not be true

I disagree ..for the living sin and suffering ends .. For those separated from the living eternal torment

 

[victorinus]

I disagree ..for the living sin and suffering ends .. For those separated from the living eternal torment

do you believe in eternal torment?

 

[parousia70]

I disagree ..for the living sin and suffering ends .. For those separated from the living eternal torment

Isaiah is very clear that even in the New Heavens and Earth period, Sinners continue to be Born, live, grow old, and Die.
(Isaiah 65:20)

 

[dfw69]

do you believe in eternal torment?

Yes Jesus parable of the rich man and lazareth which is a true story reveals eternal torment

 

[dfw69]

Isaiah is very clear that even in the New Heavens and Earth period, Sinners continue to be Born, live, grow old, and Die.
(Isaiah 65:20)

I believe this refers to Jerusalem not new Jerusalem the city in heaven .. This passage refers to the trial period of the millennium ...when Jesus will reign for a 1000 years then new Jerusalem will come down from heaven

 

[parousia70]

I believe this refers to Jerusalem not new Jerusalem the city in heaven .. This passage refers to the trial period of the millennium ...when Jesus will reign for a 1000 years then new Jerusalem will come down from heaven

You are certainly free to believe that.
But the language In Isaiah precludes it.

Isaiah 65:17
“For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth;

This is not the millennium.

 

[dfw69]

You are certainly free to believe that.
But the language In Isaiah precludes it.

Isaiah 65:17
“For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth;

This is not the millennium.

In order to create the new heaven and new earth the millennium trial must come first

 

[parousia70]

In order to create the new heaven and new earth the millennium trial must come first

I guess Peter didn't get that memo....

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. (2 Peter 3:10)

Where do you insert this "millennium trial" in Peter's theology above?

 

[ewq1938]

I guess Peter didn't get that memo....

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. (2 Peter 3:10)

Where do you insert this "millennium trial" in Peter's theology above?

The day of the Lord here is not only the second coming but everything that happens as a result of his return which includes the Millennium reign over the nations and then judgment day and culminating with the new heaven and new Earth of Rev 21 which is the beginning of the eternity.

 

[Job8]

Where do you insert this "millennium trial" in Peter's theology above?

Since Peter was not talking about the Millennium, there is no reference to that in Peter's epistles DIRECTLY. But since he mentions the New Heavens and the New Earth, that is an indirect reference, since the Millennium precedes the New Heavens and the New Earth.