Are your churches using Jesus Culture songs in praise and worship?

[PrettyboyAndy]

I have demonstrated to you that this song has false teaching in it that is contrary to Scripture. You refused to deal with that information. This is the false teaching in that song:

It states, 'You are strong in my brokenness'.

The sovereign Lord Almighty is strong in his essence. 'Who is this King of glory? The LORD strong and mighty, the LORD mighty in battle' (Psalm 24:8 NIV). The Lord does not need your or my brokenness to make him strong. His attribute is that of might and strength. That does not change through your or my brokenness. This is confirmed further in Psalm 29:8 (NIV), 'Who is like you, LORD God Almighty? You, LORD, are mighty, and your faithfulness surrounds you'.

Jeremiah 50:34 (ISV) confirms the Lord God's essence of strength:

Their Redeemer is strong,
the Lord of the Heavenly Armies is his name.
He will vigorously plead their case
in order to bring rest to the earth,
but turmoil to the inhabitants of Babylon.

It is false teaching to say that God the Lord is strong 'in my brokenness'. He is strong by his very nature and is strong whether you are broken or not. This is his attribute of omnipotence. Nothing you or I can do can change that. It is an attack on God's nature to say he is strong 'in my brokenness'.
It is correct teaching to say that when I am broken, the Almighty God is powerful to act in the situation in which I am and to intervene according to his will. However, that power or strength is based on who the Lord Almighty is. My brokenness does not cause Him to be strong.

Oz

Most Dearest Oz,

You requested me to find a post where you said the song is not biblical.

I have found one of the posts in which you said the song is not biblical.

I would like to go through this with you, I believe with all my being, that You are strong in my brokenness is not contrary to scripture.

If anything It scriptural because of this verse below:

But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me. 10 That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong. 2 Corinthians 12:9-11

Truly yours
Andy

 

[Bluelion]

Most Dearest Oz,

You requested me to find a post where you said the song is not biblical.

I have found one of the posts in which you said the song is not biblical.

I would like to go through this with you, I believe with all my being, that You are strong in my brokenness is not contrary to scripture.

If anything It scriptural because of this verse below:

But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me. 10 That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong. 2 Corinthians 12:9-11

Truly yours
Andy

seems a Good and valid point. but like i said some people like their music a certain way. That is the issue.

 

[OzSpen]

Most Dearest Oz,

You requested me to find a post where you said the song is not biblical.

I have found one of the posts in which you said the song is not biblical.

I would like to go through this with you, I believe with all my being, that You are strong in my brokenness is not contrary to scripture.

If anything It scriptural because of this verse below:

But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me. 10 That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong. 2 Corinthians 12:9-11

Truly yours
Andy

Please provide me with the number of the post and/or the link to the post where I said that a song promoting substitutionary atonement is not biblical. You've provided ZERO source for your statement.

Oz

 

[twin1954]

Please provide me with the number of the post and/or the link to the post where I said that a song promoting substitutionary atonement is not biblical. You've provided ZERO source for your statement.

Oz

Just let it go OZ. You truly are just digging yourself into a deeper hole.

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

I have demonstrated to you that this song has false teaching in it that is contrary to Scripture. You refused to deal with that information. This is the false teaching in that song:

It states, 'You are strong in my brokenness'.

The sovereign Lord Almighty is strong in his essence. 'Who is this King of glory? The LORD strong and mighty, the LORD mighty in battle' (Psalm 24:8 NIV). The Lord does not need your or my brokenness to make him strong. His attribute is that of might and strength. That does not change through your or my brokenness. This is confirmed further in Psalm 29:8 (NIV), 'Who is like you, LORD God Almighty? You, LORD, are mighty, and your faithfulness surrounds you'.

Jeremiah 50:34 (ISV) confirms the Lord God's essence of strength:

Their Redeemer is strong,
the Lord of the Heavenly Armies is his name.
He will vigorously plead their case
in order to bring rest to the earth,
but turmoil to the inhabitants of Babylon.

It is false teaching to say that God the Lord is strong 'in my brokenness'. He is strong by his very nature and is strong whether you are broken or not. This is his attribute of omnipotence. Nothing you or I can do can change that. It is an attack on God's nature to say he is strong 'in my brokenness'.
It is correct teaching to say that when I am broken, the Almighty God is powerful to act in the situation in which I am and to intervene according to his will. However, that power or strength is based on who the Lord Almighty is. My brokenness does not cause Him to be strong.

Oz

Dearest Oz,

Kindly view post numbers 133, 137, 138, 139, 140, 144, 147, 148, 151. Pages 7 and 8

This issue at hand appears to be when the song says: You are strong in my brokenness, you said that is contrary to scripture. - I would love to discuss this with you further.

I say it's Biblical, you say it isn't.

Please show me how.

I look forward to hearing your response.

Warmest Regards,
Andy

 

[OzSpen]

..

 

[OzSpen]

Dearest Oz,

Kindly view post numbers 133, 137, 138, 139, 140, 144, 147, 148, 151. Pages 7 and 8

This issue at hand appears to be when the song says: You are strong in my brokenness, you said that is contrary to scripture. - I would love to discuss this with you further.

I say it's Biblical, you say it isn't.

Please show me how.

I look forward to hearing your response.

Warmest Regards,
Andy

Please tell me the specific post in which I denied the substitutionary atonement in that song. I will not reply again until you refer me to the ONE post where I stated this.

 

[Bluelion]

Oz you know and I know you did not, but He made a valid point with the Bible verse which describes being strong in brokenness. I am curious what you have to say about that. Come on brother can you admit you like your music a certain way. I don't find issue with it and think it is a miss understand. Lets remember we are command to love each other brother and sister or not. Let be gentle with each other huh.

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

Please tell me the specific post in which I denied the substitutionary atonement in that song. I will not reply again until you refer me to the ONE post where I stated this.

Oz, I looked back, and it appears that it was Mike who said it was unbiblical, please forgive me.

But can we please discuss this issue regarding:

The song says: You are strong in my brokenness

I say it's Biblical, you say it isn't.

 

[OzSpen]

Oz, I looked back, and it appears that it was Mike who said it was unbiblical, please forgive me.

But can we please discuss this issue regarding:

The song says: You are strong in my brokenness

I say it's Biblical, you say it isn't.

Thank you, Andy, for confirming it was not I who made that statement. I am pleased to accept your offer of forgiveness.

As for the doctrine, 'You are strong in my brokenness', I don't know that there is much more to discuss as I've provided an exposition of my position and why I consider it unbiblical in #120.

However, if you want to pursue it further, I will be available to discuss on a limited basis in my busy schedule.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

Oz you know and I know you did not, but He made a valid point with the Bible verse which describes being strong in brokenness. I am curious what you have to say about that. Come on brother can you admit you like your music a certain way. I don't find issue with it and think it is a miss understand. Lets remember we are command to love each other brother and sister or not. Let be gentle with each other huh.

Blue,

You wouldn't have a clue how I like my music as I have not expressed my musical style preference on this forum. I'm a former rock DJ in commercial radio, so I've listened to and played my fair share of the Beatles, Elvis, Jimmi Hendrix, the Beach Boys, Diana Ross & the Supremes, the Rolling Stones, Cilla Black, Cliff Richard, Herman's Hermits, Neil Sedaka, Bob Dylan, etc

However, in this thread I've been discussing the content of the songs sung in Christian music. I object to the lack of theological content in contemporary Christian music. In years gone by we learned doctrine in song, but not anymore. It is here that I object.

There is a contemporary British Christian hymn writer who does give theological content in his hymns. He is Bishop Timothy Dudley-Smith (born 1926).

Oz

 

[Goodbook]

Ugh.
Well I think some songs can be lyrically ambiguous or maybe a bit lazy and not so clear cut, in terms of semantics, but the meaning is there.

The song Jesus loves me, this I know, states when I am weak, He is strong.

I would be more concerned with the music and the overhwelming trance like state it gives people.

The only other song that gives me cause for concern and Im not sure if its anything to do with Jesus culture, is the 'how great is our God' song. Because it says 'he wraps himself in light' but God is light, and satan can disguise himself as an angel of light. So I would be concerned that that song could be referencing satan.

Some songs are not really about God at all but the worshipper. The kind of invert everything so you end up singing how great you are for worshipping instead of giving glory to God and the things Hes done.

 

[Bluelion]

Blue,

You wouldn't have a clue how I like my music as I have not expressed my musical style preference on this forum. I'm a former rock DJ in commercial radio, so I've listened to and played my fair share of the Beatles, Elvis, Jimmi Hendrix, the Beach Boys, Diana Ross & the Supremes, the Rolling Stones, Cilla Black, Cliff Richard, Herman's Hermits, Neil Sedaka, Bob Dylan, etc

However, in this thread I've been discussing the content of the songs sung in Christian music. I object to the lack of theological content in contemporary Christian music. In years gone by we learned doctrine in song, but not anymore. It is here that I object.

There is a contemporary British Christian hymn writer who does give theological content in his hymns. He is Bishop Timothy Dudley-Smith (born 1926).

Oz

See you just said you like your christian music a certain way, i was not referring to all music but christian as was the topic. You said there should be an amount of theology in each song that you should learn from a song. This is your view point, I think you would agree what you find a good christian song others may not. I learn a great deal about my own relation to God in modern christian songs, one I posted I Am Yours, many times these songs speak to how I feel about God. It is true you have to know your Bible to know what these songs speak of and our biblical, but I don't believe a song is a sermon. The Best place to get the word of God is from the Bible. I to prefer my music a certain way, I like it up lifting, Christian music that is. I do not like rap christian music or heavy metal christian music and do not feel these worship God. I feel songs should have the energy of love and those other genres do not. So I can relate to how you feel brother and understand it. I think you will find the are Biblical though, I even find rap and metal songs biblical but discard them because of the energy they put out.

I think you will find songs like I Am Yours are full of love. Verses like You are God over the storm and I am Yours. God is God over all the troubles, even though bad times hit God is on His throne, we are to remember this the Bible tells us this. Another verse I will stand on your name can be equated to building your house on the foundation of Jesus. She speak of flood waters coming in but she is stand on the name of Jesus which rises her above. House build which with stands the flood, and also picture of Jesus as the New Ark, and great new idea I had never thought of but is very true.

I understand brother if you prefer your music a certain way, but i think you over look we can learn from some of these songs also. King Davids songs were written out of Love for God, so are these. Just wish you could see that.

 

[OzSpen]

See you just said you like your christian music a certain way,

That is not what I said. I am not going to repeat this one more time to you. I was referring to the content of the lyrics in the songs. I've had enough of Hillsong and Jesus Culture. I'm up to my eyebrows in trite lyrics with unsingable melodies.

I've said not a word about my Christian music done a certain way. Not a word. You are misrepresenting what I wrote, so you have committed a straw man fallacy.

Oz

 

[Bluelion]

That is not what I said. I am not going to repeat this one more time to you. I was referring to the content of the lyrics in the songs. I've had enough of Hillsong and Jesus Culture. I'm up to my eyebrows in trite lyrics with unsingable melodies.

I've said not a word about my Christian music done a certain way. Not a word. You are misrepresenting what I wrote, so you have committed a straw man fallacy.

Oz

what is the issue, you said you think christian music should have the words of God in them or direct quotes. That is not a fact, that is your personal preference, I.E one could say you like God's word in your songs that is the way you like them. That is your preference. If your going to use logical fallacies then use them correctly. It is not a straw man. I did not take an extreme positions of words you did not say and then argue against it. Why are you so defensive with me when i call you brother?

Tonight i decide i am no longer a christian. I will always be a child of God, but Christians don't love. Ghanidi was right you Christians are so unlike your God. That should tell you something when another human being says that about people who are suppose to follow Jesus. You guys can keep your own doctrine and buildings made of wood and stone and traditional Christians songs you sing to feel good. it is all yours. all that stuff from your groups leaves me feeling dead inside. I am going after Jesus. That is where my heart is, that is where my life is. I just can't be around you guys.

 

[OzSpen]

what is the issue, you said you think christian music should have the words of God in them or direct quotes.

Blue,

Please provide me with the post where I said that exactly.

Oz

 

[mikedsjr]

Oz, I looked back, and it appears that it was Mike who said it was unbiblical, please forgive me.

But can we please discuss this issue regarding:

The song says: You are strong in my brokenness

I say it's Biblical, you say it isn't.

Can you tell a Bethel music song I said that about? I know you posted a Matt Redmond sung by Jenn.

I went through the last Bethel Album. 70%+ is simple and mindless. The other 30% needs to be filtered for theological errors. There may not be errors, but should be verified.

 

[AGTG]

Can you tell a Bethel music song I said that about? I know you posted a Matt Redmond sung by Jenn.

I went through the last Bethel Album. 70%+ is simple and mindless. The other 30% needs to be filtered for theological errors. There may not be errors, but should be verified.

The point of this thread isn't the content of the lyrics, but what happens when someone gives a ministry like Bethel any spiritual authority over their lives. And that authority, even if it's minor, can allow them to draw people deeper into their deceptive movement.

Jesus Culture is a Pied Piper of apostasy.

 

[mikedsjr]

The point of this thread isn't the content of the lyrics, but what happens when someone gives a ministry like Bethel any spiritual authority over their lives. And that authority, even if it's minor, can allow them to draw people deeper into their deceptive movement.

Jesus Culture is a Pied Piper of apostasy.

Couldn't you say that about Christmas?

Or isnt like saying the London Baptist confession is the same?

What if all the lyrics were sound doctrine and captured the scope of Scripture. Would you still say the same?

 

[AGTG]

Couldn't you say that about Christmas?

Or isnt like saying the London Baptist confession is the same?

What if all the lyrics were sound doctrine and captured the scope of Scripture. Would you still say the same?

Reread the first page of this thread. I made some very clear points.

When Jesus warned about the leaven of the pharisees, which is hypocrisy, He was warning about the intent of the heart of spiritual authorities.

Why? Because when you submit to unscrupulous ministries that are not operating from a motivation of truth and love, they can abuse their authority over you and work witchcraft, willful prayers to draw people to deeper levels of deception and control.