Are your churches using Jesus Culture songs in praise and worship?

[AGTG]

In Luke 12:1 Jesus warned, "Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy."

In 1 Timothy 4:1-2 Paul said, "The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2 Such teachings come through hypocritical liars..."

Both passages use the Greek term "hypokrisis."

Jesus warned against hypocritical ministries because seducing spirits will infiltrate them, bring forth demon doctrines, and lead people to fall away from the faith.

Bethel, like many of these New Apostolic Reformation ministries such as Ihop KC, Morningstar Ministries, and Fire School of Ministry, are such ministries.

When demons begin to work in a ministry, they will bring in false signs and wonders. Hypocritical ministries operate in witchcraft which is used to manipulate and control the people under them.

 

[Bluelion]

Blue,

Please provide me with the post where I said that exactly.

Oz

Post 231 you said this

I object to the lack of theological content in contemporary Christian music. In years gone by we learned doctrine in song, but not anymore. It is here that I object.

That shows a preference, can we stop playing games now. To which i said you like your music a certain way you just expressed how you liked it.

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

In Luke 12:1 Jesus warned, "Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy."

In 1 Timothy 4:1-2 Paul said, "The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2 Such teachings come through hypocritical liars..."

Both passages use the Greek term "hypokrisis."

Jesus warned against hypocritical ministries because seducing spirits will infiltrate them, bring forth demon doctrines, and lead people to fall away from the faith.

Bethel, like many of these New Apostolic Reformation ministries such as Ihop KC, Morningstar Ministries, and Fire School of Ministry, are such ministries.

When demons begin to work in a ministry, they will bring in false signs and wonders. Hypocritical ministries operate in witchcraft which is used to manipulate and control the people under them.

You can't post a verse, and apply it to a music group.

You can not connect the dots, I know you can't so please stop with this accusation.

Again your saying there praying are unleashing demons, and they were created with demonic forces. - That is crazy stuff.

A believer is NOT capable of doing such a thing, so basically your calling many many music artists, such as Jenn Johnson non believers?

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

The point of this thread isn't the content of the lyrics, but what happens when someone gives a ministry like Bethel any spiritual authority over their lives. And that authority, even if it's minor, can allow them to draw people deeper into their deceptive movement.

Jesus Culture is a Pied Piper of apostasy.

Can you tell a Bethel music song I said that about? I know you posted a Matt Redmond sung by Jenn.

I went through the last Bethel Album. 70%+ is simple and mindless. The other 30% needs to be filtered for theological errors. There may not be errors, but should be verified.

There is nothing wrong with simple Christian music and long as it isnt contray to the message of the Gospel or the Message of the Cross.

You want Meat/Theology read the Bible or a commentary, DON'T EXPECT TO BE FED FROM A SONG

 

[mikedsjr]

There is nothing wrong with simple Christian music and long as it isnt contray to the message of the Gospel or the Message of the Cross.

You want Meat/Theology read the Bible or a commentary, DON'T EXPECT TO BE FED FROM A SONG

First commentaries, depending on the one you read, can be filled with bad theology too.

Don't act like you don't expect to be fed in songs. You proved this by rejecting the Hokey Pokey. The difference is the amount you wish to be fed and the amount of bad theology your willing to take. Which is quite a lot more than myself.

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

First commentaries, depending on the one you read, can be filled with bad theology too.

Don't act like you don't expect to be fed in songs. You proved this by rejecting the Hokey Pokey. The difference is the amount you wish to be fed and the amount of bad theology your willing to take. Which is quite a lot more than myself.

Mike,
a) You said Commentaries can be filled with bad theology. - But I said, specifically said as long as it's not contrary to the Gospel. You do realize there are many "camps" and many many denominations. Who's to say which one is right? So either it's contrary to the Gospel or it's not. - If it is contrary then it's heretical and they will already receive their punishment.
b) Hokey Pokey isn't a Christian song. You can not compare Hokey Pokey to Christian Music.
c)Christian Music is and act of worshiping God, So if the Song says, Lord I love you repeated over and over, that is still a song of worship.
d)I play Kid's Worship Song for the little ones, I love it, and the lyrics are so simple, sometimes I sing along - This is worship also!

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

First commentaries, depending on the one you read, can be filled with bad theology too.

Don't act like you don't expect to be fed in songs. You proved this by rejecting the Hokey Pokey. The difference is the amount you wish to be fed and the amount of bad theology your willing to take. Which is quite a lot more than myself.

Praise Him, praise Him, all ye little children,
God is love, God is love;
Praise Him, praise Him, all ye little children,
God is love, God is love.

Love Him, love Him, all ye little children,
God is love, God is love;
Love Him, love Him, all ye little children,
God is love, God is love.

Thank Him, thank Him, all ye little children,
God is love, God is love;
Thank Him, thank Him, all ye little children,
God is love, God is love.

Lyrics don't need to be very theological Mike, they don't need to feed you, the Word of God is meant to feed.

 

[mikedsjr]

Praise Him, praise Him, all ye little children,
God is love, God is love;
Praise Him, praise Him, all ye little children,
God is love, God is love.

Love Him, love Him, all ye little children,
God is love, God is love;
Love Him, love Him, all ye little children,
God is love, God is love.

Thank Him, thank Him, all ye little children,
God is love, God is love;
Thank Him, thank Him, all ye little children,
God is love, God is love.

Lyrics don't need to be very theological Mike, they don't need to feed you, the Word of God is meant to feed.

So you think this teaches anything beyond "God is love"?

Let me help you out.

"Law, law, law, law, all ye little children....."
Rinse and repeat.

I like the song. It sounds wonderful to hear the kids sing it. I don't think they are thinking "I have to do this for God, who is love, to love me". I don't think the song affects their salvation, when they receive it, or if they are. It is the kind of song that affected me. For instance, a more adult hymn. "I surrender all". I felt guilty because I could never sing this song and mean it. What was wrong with me was my thought. Any song expressing God is my everything or I give everything to Him, is a hopeless law song. Anyone honest can not achieve this.

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

So you think this teaches anything beyond "God is love"?

Let me help you out.

"Law, law, law, law, all ye little children....."
Rinse and repeat.

I like the song. It sounds wonderful to hear the kids sing it. I don't think they are thinking "I have to do this for God, who is love, to love me". I don't think the song affects their salvation, when they receive it, or if they are. It is the kind of song that affected me. For instance, a more adult hymn. "I surrender all". I felt guilty because I could never sing this song and mean it. What was wrong with me was my thought. Any song expressing God is my everything or I give everything to Him, is a hopeless law song. Anyone honest can not achieve this.

Who said songs need to teach? What I have learned about God or the Bible is not from singing. It's from a Pastor, a Sermon or reading the Word.

You don't need to have the most eloquent, song. - If you do please show me why.

And why were you comparing the Hokey Pokey to Christian music?

The Word says:
Sing and make music from your heart to the Lord Ephesians 5:19

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

So you think this teaches anything beyond "God is love"?

Let me help you out.

"Law, law, law, law, all ye little children....."
Rinse and repeat.

I like the song. It sounds wonderful to hear the kids sing it. I don't think they are thinking "I have to do this for God, who is love, to love me". I don't think the song affects their salvation, when they receive it, or if they are. It is the kind of song that affected me. For instance, a more adult hymn. "I surrender all". I felt guilty because I could never sing this song and mean it. What was wrong with me was my thought. Any song expressing God is my everything or I give everything to Him, is a hopeless law song. Anyone honest can not achieve this.

Got Questions says:

There are no New Testament instructions on the type of instruments to be used (or not used), and no particular “style” of music is recommended or forbidden. The simple command is to sing “to God with gratitude in your hearts” (Colossians 3:16) also Sing and make music from your heart to the Lord Ephesians 5:19

also

So the question is this: Does a piece of music edify believers while bringing honor and glory to Christ Jesus? If so, then what difference does it make...

 

[Bluelion]

So you think this teaches anything beyond "God is love"?

Let me help you out.

"Law, law, law, law, all ye little children....."
Rinse and repeat.

I like the song. It sounds wonderful to hear the kids sing it. I don't think they are thinking "I have to do this for God, who is love, to love me". I don't think the song affects their salvation, when they receive it, or if they are. It is the kind of song that affected me. For instance, a more adult hymn. "I surrender all". I felt guilty because I could never sing this song and mean it. What was wrong with me was my thought. Any song expressing God is my everything or I give everything to Him, is a hopeless law song. Anyone honest can not achieve this.

so your saying you are lost? The goal is to give it all to God, Jesus gave it all to God and we are to follow Jesus, did Paul give it all to God? I think so. So you feel convicted because you don't give it to God, I would say the song served it purpose. I would say you were fed you just did not like the food. But it is blessed food of God. The Issue is again with you, not the song.

 

[Goodbook]

I would stay away from anything coming out of Bethel and the NAR.
I think many chase after signs and wonders and think its more exciting than 'mainstream' christianity which is based on loving God and loving your neighbour.

Too many people want a 'prophetic word' when whoever is prophesying they don't even know...people have been known to use that to control people. Witches do that as a matter of course, then infiltrate churches and say its of God. Sometimes you wonder, why has God given someone else a vision if its meant for me, why didn't he just give it straight to me. Even Paul said he had visions and revelations that he wasn't allowed to tell anyone.

Test the spirits to see if they are of God.

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

I would stay away from anything coming out of Bethel and the NAR.
I think many chase after signs and wonders and think its more exciting than 'mainstream' christianity which is based on loving God and loving your neighbour.

Too many people want a 'prophetic word' when whoever is prophesying they don't even know...people have been known to use that to control people. Witches do that as a matter of course, then infiltrate churches and say its of God. Sometimes you wonder, why has God given someone else a vision if its meant for me, why didn't he just give it straight to me. Even Paul said he had visions and revelations that he wasn't allowed to tell anyone.

Test the spirits to see if they are of God.

The way you do is to see if they are saying anything contrary to the word of God, these Contemporary Christian song lyrics don't contradict scripture.

I'm not a Pentacostal, but this post is not about denominations its about songs, and all of you people, Mike, AGTG, OZ, You too Goodbook seem to have a problem with the denomination not the lyrics. - Let's focus on the music lyrics and let's be bereans and see if they contradict scripture.

 

[mikedsjr]

Mike,
a) You said Commentaries can be filled with bad theology. - But I said, specifically said as long as it's not contrary to the Gospel. You do realize there are many "camps" and many many denominations. Who's to say which one is right? So either it's contrary to the Gospel or it's not. - If it is contrary then it's heretical and they will already receive their punishment.

Songs or commentaries can teach bad theology and not be against the gospel. Two separate issues.

b) Hokey Pokey isn't a Christian song. You can not compare Hokey Pokey to Christian Music.

Look up Holy Ghost Hokey Pokey on YouTube.

c)Christian Music is and act of worshiping God, So if the Song says, Lord I love you repeated over and over, that is still a song of worship.

That's a cultic mantra.

d)I play Kid's Worship Song for the little ones, I love it, and the lyrics are so simple, sometimes I sing along - This is worship also!

Where kids learn to obey god's law if they love him.

 

[mikedsjr]

so your saying you are lost? The goal is to give it all to God, Jesus gave it all to God and we are to follow Jesus, did Paul give it all to God? I think so. So you feel convicted because you don't give it to God, I would say the song served it purpose. I would say you were fed you just did not like the food. But it is blessed food of God. The Issue is again with you, not the song.

I'm cool with you thinking whatever you want about me.

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

Songs or commentaries can teach bad theology and not be against the gospel. Two separate issues.

Look up Holy Ghost Hokey Pokey on YouTube.

That's a cultic mantra.

Where kids learn to obey god's law if they love him.

a) Kids should learn to obey God law from their parents, pursuant to - Train up a child in the way he should go,
And when he is old he will not depart from it. Proverbs 22:6

b) You can not compare two things that are not alike. Jenn Johnson is nothing close to that nonsence you mentioned.

c) You keep mentioning bad theology, The songs are not contrary to the Gospel, nor are they teaching anything heretical, Which is why I will defend them

d) Shame on you for saying a song that says I love you Lord Jesus, is cultic mantra, Jesus is the Judge, he knows who belongs to him, his sheep hear his voice and fellow him, it's our job to be Conformed to the image of Christ, Love God and Love our neighbor

 

[AGTG]

I would stay away from anything coming out of Bethel and the NAR.
I think many chase after signs and wonders and think its more exciting than 'mainstream' christianity which is based on loving God and loving your neighbour.

I've been going through the Old Testament from the Genesis forward, and I found a very clear foreshadow of just such a thing.

Repeatedly, when the Israelites were in the wilderness, they complained about having to continue eating the manna (which is a foreshadow of the supernatural provision of God in Jesus).

It was too bland and boring, they wanted all the aromatics and the fancy food they had back in Egypt.

This foreshadow is quite telling of what's happening today with this movement.

Just yesterday, I saw a church with a banner out front trying to lure people in with what it called "WORSHIP EXPERIENCES!"

 

[AGTG]

Hokey Pokey, you say? Elevation church is expert in witchcraft. They lure people to submit very, very quickly. If you're a first-time visitor you get special parking and special seating in the service. Imagine how special that makes people feel, and how much it makes them willing to submit.

Now consider that coloring book they have the Sunday school teachers using with the kids. They're literally coloring in a picture of Furtick with the message underneath to "submit" to your leader and his vision.

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

I've been going through the Old Testament from the Genesis forward, and I found a very clear foreshadow of just such a thing.

Repeatedly, when the Israelites were in the wilderness, they complained about having to continue eating the manna (which is a foreshadow of the supernatural provision of God in Jesus).

It was too bland and boring, they wanted all the aromatics and the fancy food they had back in Egypt.

This foreshadow is quite telling of what's happening today with this movement.

Just yesterday, I saw a church with a banner out front trying to lure people in with what it called "WORSHIP EXPERIENCES!"

Wrong AGTG, you must either be very good at ignoring me or have me on block.

Just as God provided manna to the Israelites to save them from starvation, He has provided Jesus Christ for the salvation of our souls. The literal manna temporarily saved the Israelites from physical death. The spiritual manna saves us from eternal death. “Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die” (John 6:49-50).

Got that from Got Questions.

Manna is a foreshadowing of Jesus and Salvation.

You should read the Word and look for Christ and try to be conformed to His image.

This is the first time I interacted with you on the Forums but all I see you doing is attacking other denominations. - Is this the message of the Cross? Nearly every post you mention another church, or ministry and put them down.

 

[OzSpen]

Post 231 you said this

I object to the lack of theological content in contemporary Christian music. In years gone by we learned doctrine in song, but not anymore. It is here that I object.

That shows a preference, can we stop playing games now. To which i said you like your music a certain way you just expressed how you liked it.

That says absolutely NOTHING about the style of music. It says EVERYTHING about the content of words that are sung to the music. For example, The Gospel Coalition, was introduced to Brisbane in the Brisbane Town Hall in 2015. I attended the meeting and some of the grand old hymns (based on the words) of the faith were sung to contemporary music - guitars, keyboard, bass and drums. They were great songs because of the content of the words and the congregational, singable music.

You are barking up the wrong tree on this one with me.

Oz