Are your churches using Jesus Culture songs in praise and worship?

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AGTG

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I'm curious if this stuff is creeping into the baptist churches. If so, you should warn your pastors and worship leaders. If they scoff, you may strongly reconsider being a part of such a church.

Because of the way submission and authority work, if someone submits in any measure to a ministry that is not sincere or is under a delusion, they can be easily manipulated into submitting at deeper levels. The deeper the submission, the more they can manipulate and control your thinking and actions.

It may seem harmless to introduce songs from Jesus Culture, but as the young people get enamored with these songs they submit even further by buying CD's, attending concerts at churches.

Before you know it, they're buying the books put out by Bill Johnson which are completely off the rails doctrinally. It's bad stuff, people, your pastor needs to be aware of what can happen.
 

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I'm curious if this stuff is creeping into the baptist churches. If so, you should warn your pastors and worship leaders. If they scoff, you may strongly reconsider being a part of such a church.

Because of the way submission and authority work, if someone submits in any measure to a ministry that is not sincere or is under a delusion, they can be easily manipulated into submitting at deeper levels. The deeper the submission, the more they can manipulate and control your thinking and actions.

It may seem harmless to introduce songs from Jesus Culture, but as the young people get enamored with these songs they submit even further by buying CD's, attending concerts at churches.

Before you know it, they're buying the books put out by Bill Johnson which are completely off the rails doctrinally. It's bad stuff, people, your pastor needs to be aware of what can happen.

AGTG,

I think you have mixed two issues here:

  1. Songs from the Jesus' culture. To which songs are you referring? Are you meaning the Hillsong culture and contemporary songs like that? Or, are you referring to the traditional Jesus' culture of, say, Charles Wesley & Isaac Watts songs.
  2. I'm more than aware of the damage done by Bill Johnson and the Bethel Church team in SE Asia. I have a friend who has been working there to rescue young girls sold into prostitution and has found Johnson and team to be promoting unscriptural, Pentecostal doctrines that have made it difficult for evangelicals in that region where so many other gods are promoted.
So are you wanting to address the issue of songs in church first?

Oz
 
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PrettyboyAndy

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I'm curious if this stuff is creeping into the baptist churches. If so, you should warn your pastors and worship leaders. If they scoff, you may strongly reconsider being a part of such a church.

Because of the way submission and authority work, if someone submits in any measure to a ministry that is not sincere or is under a delusion, they can be easily manipulated into submitting at deeper levels. The deeper the submission, the more they can manipulate and control your thinking and actions.

It may seem harmless to introduce songs from Jesus Culture, but as the young people get enamored with these songs they submit even further by buying CD's, attending concerts at churches.

Before you know it, they're buying the books put out by Bill Johnson which are completely off the rails doctrinally. It's bad stuff, people, your pastor needs to be aware of what can happen.

My Wife listens to Jesus Culture, whats wrong with the music?

It mentions scripture and it praises God in it's lyrics.

Were not talking doctrine, denominations, gifts of the spirit. - Talking about Music, specifically Jesus Culture

That being said:

I have close pentecostal friends, who encourage me more so then any baptists I know. They love the lord, are Spirit filled, and bear fruit in the life and their marriage and live to glorify God. - Just because they speak in tongues should we stop talking to them Because one point in their doctrine is off? Does that mean they are non-believers?

On the other hand, I used to have a hyper calvinist Pastor, he taught me much, I love his sermons, and the church was a great encouragement to me, should I look for another church because he was hyper calvinist? Is he a non-believer?

No one is perfect, with so many different denominations and doctrines, not everyone will see things the way you do, or the "right" way, and whose to say your way is right and theirs is wrong?

I firmly believe it boils down to: Becoming conformed to the image of Christ, bearing fruit and glorying God, and essentials doctrines.

There are doctrinal issues which are essential to the message of the cross/Gospel:
1) Diety of Christ/Incarnation of Christ
2) Tribune God
3) Salvation by Grace/Faith in Christ
4) Resurrection of Christ

I don't see "gifts of the spirit" as essential doctrinal issues, Nor do I see Calvinism or Arminianism as essential doctrinal issues
 
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AGTG

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What I'm saying is that Bethel, among other ministries affiliated with them, are utilizing witchcraft to manipulate anyone who comes under their teachings or music.

Even if someone is teaching something that appears Biblical, Christians should be wary. Christ said, "Beware of the leaven of the pharisees, which is hypocrisy."

Basically, He warned to be wary of ministry leaders who may be operating in a hypocritical or insincere manner. This is a matter of the heart, and is very hard to discern through mass-media ministries.

The term Jesus used is the Greek word "hypocrisis." Which basically means to do something in an insincere manner, for a purpose which is hidden.

Paul uses the very same term in 1 Timothy 4:1-5. When you see what kind of influence can come under when they submit themselves to a ministry functioning in hypocrisy, it should startle you (emphasis mine):

1 Timothy 4:1-4
The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2 Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 3 They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth.

There are three clear things that will come forth from any ministry operating in hypocrisy:

1) They will be open to seductive demons
2) Those demons will bring about foul doctrines
3) Those doctrines will lead people to fall away from the faith

Paul then goes on to prophecy and give two very clear examples of such demon doctrines that would come forth 400-500 years later through the Catholic church: Teaching priests to abstain from marriage and forbidding people from eating meat for lent/good friday.

But what was Jesus really warning about to the average believer? Don't submit to such ministries because they will abuse their authority over you and you will come under the influence of those demonic forces.

Basically, it's one of the more direct teachings Jesus' gave on how to avoid the strong delusion that Paul references in 2nd Thessalonians.
 
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PrettyboyAndy

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Also, for the record, I am not against the Spiritual gifts. I am against error which leads people astray.


Then you should change your title of the thread, it states:

Are your churches using Jesus Culture songs in praise and worship?

You go on to say,

Are your churches using Jesus Culture songs in praise and worship?

Again I ask you, whats wrong with the Music?

Also can you give me an example of how Bethel uses witchcraft?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God's curse!

I know there are warning for those that distort the Gospel, is bethel distorting the gospel?

 
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PrettyboyAndy

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Also, for the record, I am not against the Spiritual gifts. I am against error which leads people astray.

Great to know your not against Spiritual Gifts, I don't believe in them myself, but am not against them by any means.

If something is praising God, not doctrinally wrong(putting spiritual gifts aside) How it is leading people astray?

Like the pope, he said something along the lines of: we are all brothers, Muslims, Jews and Christians and even atheists will go to heaven. - That is against the Gospel.
 
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AGTG

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Take a look at what Jesus said about hypocritical leaders. Take a look at Paul's warning about how hypocritical leaders can bring demonic influence which bring demonic teachings that will lead people away from the faith. That should all be pretty clear, they're both using the same Greek work: hipokrisis.

The whole matter is about submission and authority. If Christians submit themselves to the influence of insincere leaders, they can come under demonic deception. Moreover, when you submit to someone's authority, they now have permission to pray into, over, and about you in the spiritual realms. That can be powerful for God's Kingdom, or it can be abused for wicked means.

Insincere leaders can use witchcraft to manipulate the way the people under their authority think and act. Witchcraft is simply praying willful prayers which are not lined up with Father God's will.

The deeper you submit to such leaders, the stronger the control they have over you because praying can be powerful in good and bad ways.

For example, a stable Biblically sound mainstream evangelical church can begin to use Jesus Culture songs in their praise and worship to appeal to young people (a seemingly harmless thing to do). This kind of decision, however, puts the people in that church under a measure of influence of the ministry of Bethel Church. You can bet Bethel is praying over their ministries, and you can bet those prayers are manipulative and unleash foul spiritual forces against those who carelessly come under their influence.

Pretty soon, the young people who grew up stable in the faith begin to look into Jesus Culture and buy their music, submitting at an even greater level. As they open themselves up to such influences, they are drawn deeper and deeper into the snares of their control. Before long, they are buying the books put out by these ministries which are not grounded in Biblical truth, but are born of demonic deception. If one is not careful, they may end up attending a school of ministry.

How utilizing witchcraft? Just watch the movie Holy Ghost. You see very clear examples of their ministry teams on the street drawing people to submit to the things they are saying. As they draw them deeper into submission, the foul spiritual forces behind them begin to manifest.

It starts with a hello, then talking to the person about spiritual things, then asking of they can lay hands on them, then telling them to do something like hold their hand out. All the while, the unwitting person is submitting themselves to their authority. By the end of it, the person has some physical sensation like goosebumps, or tingles, or an alleged healing. They're astonished at it, but what was the purpose? The gospel isn't preached. They're basically leading people into a fleshly experience and then tacking on Jesus' name to it.

There is a movie called "Holy Ghost Exposed" on youtube. Watch it and you will see what I mean.

Moreover, there is a huge pyramid structure built on this submission and authority model which is not unlike the Catholic church. It's very deceptive and growing by the day. It may be the strong delusion Paul warned of.
 
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PrettyboyAndy

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AGTG,

The means by which I got saved was through a rick warren book.

What I am trying to say is God uses all things together for good. I am sure the Music Jesus Culture, encourages many people, and I am sure many came to Christ from the music.

What Paul said about the leaders was:

Galatians 1:9 - As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God's curse!

How is tesus Culture, and praising Jesus through music, leading people astray, as long as they don't deviate from the key message of Christ and the Gospel? Which I don't assume they are:
1) Diety of Christ/Incarnation of Christ
2) Tribune God
3) Salvation by Grace through Faith, in Christ alone
4) Resurrection of Christ

The Pope is a hypocritical leader. Jesus Culture is a group of born again Christian believers praising God through Music. - I don't see your point here.


Matthew 23 is Jesus addressing the hypocritical leaders:
Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, 2 “The teachers of religious law and the Pharisees are the official interpreters of the law of Moses. 3 So practice and obey whatever they tell you, but don’t follow their example. For they don’t practice what they teach. 4 They crush people with unbearable religious demands and never lift a finger to ease the burden.
Everything they do is for show. On their arms they wear extra wide prayer boxes with Scripture verses inside, and they wear robes with extra long tassels.6 And they love to sit at the head table at banquets and in the seats of honor in the synagogues.7 They love to receive respectful greetings as they walk in the marketplaces, and to be called ‘Rabbi.’

Also please see Matthew 15

Then Pharisees and scribes came to Jesus from Jerusalem and said, 2 “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat.” 3 He answered them, “And why do you break the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘Whoever reviles father or mother must surely die.’ 5 But you say, ‘If anyone tells his father or his mother, “What you would have gained from me is given to God,”[a] 6 he need not honor his father.’ So for the sake of your tradition you have made void the word of God. 7 You hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy of you, when he said:

8 “‘This people honors me with their lips,
but their heart is far from me;
9 in vain do they worship me,
teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’”

What Defiles a Person
10 And he called the people to him and said to them, “Hear and understand: 11 it is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but what comes out of the mouth; this defiles a person.” 12 Then the disciples came and said to him, “Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this saying?” 13 He answered, “Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be rooted up. 14 Let them alone; they are blind guides.[c] And if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit.” 15 But Peter said to him, “Explain the parable to us.” 16 And he said, “Are you also still without understanding? 17 Do you not see that whatever goes into the mouth passes into the stomach and is expelled?[d] 18 But what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this defiles a person. 19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander. 20 These are what defile a person. But to eat with unwashed hands does not defile anyone.”
 
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PrettyboyAndy

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Take a look at what Jesus said about hypocritical leaders. Take a look at Paul's about how hypocritical leaders can bring demonic influence which bring demonic teachings that will lead people away from the faith. That should all be pretty clear, they're both using the same Greek work: hipokrisis.

The whole matter is about submission and authority. If Christians submit themselves to the influence of insincere leaders, they can come under demonic deception. Moreover, when you submit to someone's authority, they now have permission to pray into, over, and about you in the spiritual realms. That can be powerful for God's Kingdom, or it can be abused for wicked means.

Insincere leaders can use witchcraft to manipulate the way the people under their authority think and act. Witchcraft is simply praying willful prayers which are not lined up with Father God's will.

The deeper you submit to such leaders, the stronger the control they have over you because praying can be powerful in good and bad ways.

For example, a stable Biblically sound mainstream evangelical church can begin to use Jesus Culture songs in their praise and worship to appeal to young people (a seemingly harmless thing to do). This kind of decision, however, puts the people in that church under a measure of influence of the ministry of Bethel Church. You can bet Bethel is praying over their ministries, and you can bet those prayers are manipulative and unleash foul spiritual forces against those who carelessly come under their influence.

Pretty soon, the young people who grew up stable in the faith begin to look into Jesus Culture and buy their music, submitting at an even greater level. As they open themselves up to such influences, they are drawn deeper and deeper into the snares of their control. Before long, they are buying the books put out by these ministries which are not grounded in Biblical truth, but are born of demonic deception. If one is not careful, they may end up attending a school of ministry.

How utilizing witchcraft? Just watch the movie Holy Ghost. You see very clear examples of their ministry teams on the street drawing people to submit to the things they are saying. As they draw them deeper into submission, the foul spiritual forces behind them begin to manifest.

It starts with a hello, then talking to the person about spiritual things, then asking of they can lay hands on them, then telling them to do something like hold their hand out. All the while, the unwitting person is submitting themselves to their authority. By the end of it, the person has some physical sensation like goosebumps, or tingles, or an alleged healing. They're astonished at it, but what was the purpose? The gospel isn't preached. They're basically leading people into a fleshly experience and then tacking on Jesus' name to it.

There is a movie called "Holy Ghost Exposed" on youtube. Watch it and you will see what I mean.

Moreover, there is a huge pyramid structure built on this submission and authority model which is not unlike the Catholic church. It's very deceptive and growing by the day. It may be the strong delusion Paul warned of.


You said the following:
For example, a stable Biblically sound mainstream evangelical church can begin to use Jesus Culture songs in their praise and worship to appeal to young people (a seemingly harmless thing to do). This kind of decision, however, puts the people in that church under a measure of influence of the ministry of Bethel Church. You can bet Bethel is praying over their ministries, and you can bet those prayers are manipulative and unleash foul spiritual forces against those who carelessly come under their influence.

Pretty soon, the young people who grew up stable in the faith begin to look into Jesus Culture and buy their music, submitting at an even greater level. As they open themselves up to such influences, they are drawn deeper and deeper into the snares of their control. Before long, they are buying the books put out by these ministries which are not grounded in Biblical truth, but are born of demonic deception. If one is not careful, they may end up attending a school of ministry.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

What you just said, I don't agree with at all!

Who are you to say, that those prayers are manipulative and unleash foul spirits? You can see their prayers they pray to Jesus Christ and in His Name, nothing unscriptural about them.

Deeper and deeper into the snare of their control? And born of demonic deception? - Are you kidding me? A church playing Jesus Culture music is not in the snare of the devil, it's lyrics are glorifying God.
 
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OzSpen

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Does it sounds like I support this ministry? I am plainly warning people to stay clear of their ministries.

I join you in that warning but we need to expose the misleading points or error in what they proclaim. But the issue of this topic is concerning praise and worship songs.

Since I live in Australia, contemporary churches here are more influenced by the Hillsong culture of praise and worship which, to me, provides trite lyrics and melodies that are unsingable for me as a congregational member.

At least hymns such as Praise my soul the King of heaven; Onward Christian soldiers; How great Thou art; and Amazing grace are songs of biblical substance with singable melodies.

Oz
 
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PrettyboyAndy

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Does it sounds like I support this ministry? I am plainly warning people to stay clear of their ministries.

Bring me a scriptural argument for them having demonic spirits, and them praying manipulative prayers and unleashing spiritual evil forces.

Your accusations are ridiculous. These are born again believers with slightly different doctrinal stances, on things that aren't of great importance.

I am very firm in my stance, and if I see something contrary to the Gospel or Christ, I will stand up for the Word.
 
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AGTG

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My point is, Jesus warned about the heart (hypocrisy) behind the ministers for a reason.

And if you give ministries like this any credibility in your walk, you give them a measure of authority. They, in turn, can abuse that measure of authority.

Willful witchcraft prayers can bring for supernatural effects. They can pray over someone and they can receive false visions, false dreams, false prophetic words that can deceive and manipulate someone into doing things that are not God's will.

And if you resist their authority, they can bring forth awful spiritual attacks upon which manifest in an overwhelming sense of fear, confusion, fogginess of thought. And even more, they can impact you physically giving you knots in the stomach, back pain, neck pain, diziness or vertigo.
 
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AGTG

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Bring me a scriptural argument for them having demonic spirits, and them praying manipulative prayers and unleashing spiritual evil forces.

Your accusations are ridiculous. These are born again believers with slightly different doctrinal stances, on things that aren't of great importance.

I am very firm in my stance, and if I see something contrary to the Gospel or Christ, I will stand up for the Word.

This is my final response to you, as I clearly stated my position and backed it with scripture the first time you asked. This is what's happening with these ministries:

1 Timothy 4:1-2
1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, 2 through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared,
 
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My point is, Jesus warned about the heart (hypocrisy) behind the ministers for a reason.

And if you give ministries like this any credibility in your walk, you give them a measure of authority. They, in turn, can abuse that measure of authority.

Willful witchcraft prayers can bring for supernatural effects. They can pray over someone and they can receive false visions, false dreams, false prophetic words that can deceive and manipulate someone into doing thing that are not God's will.

And if you resist their authority, they can bring forth awful spiritual attacks upon which manifest in an overwhelming sense of fear, confusion, fogginess of thought. And even more, they can impact you physically giving you knots in the stomach, back pain, neck pain, diziness or vertigo.

What are you talking about? How can you say the leaders/ministry leaders are praying these demonic witchcraft prayers?

Jesus Culture is Born Again Believers music group.


"I Adore You"

Mercy falls from Your heart down on me
Glory streams from Your face so lovely
A million words could not describe
How marvelous Your perfect light

I adore You
I will sing it with all my heart
I adore You
I love everything You are

That my heart, beats to the rhythm of Your heart
That my eyes focus on Your beautiful eyes
A million tongues could not express
How beautiful Your holiness

My life is yours and will be forever
My love is yours

What's wrong with this? Please show me
 
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