Are your churches using Jesus Culture songs in praise and worship?

[mikedsjr]

Did you not just read my post?

I showed and proved pursuant to scripture there are pieces of the Gospel message in the song.

I asked if you read my post because I said it did have gospel to it. I admit I'm unsure they are a trustworthy church. However you did find a song.

 

[mikedsjr]

Brother, They can prefer whatever they like.

But they can't say these songs are contrary to Scripture, because thats false and not true.

And neither is Hokey Pokey contrary to Scripture but I sure don't want that in church.

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

I asked if you read my post because I said it did have gospel to it. I admit I'm unsure they are a trustworthy church. However you did find a song.

Sorry, sometimes I go on Christian Forums late night after I put the little ones to sleep, and I am quite tired.

Glad we are in agreement.

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

And neither is Hokey Pokey contrary to Scripture but I sure don't want that in church.

I thought we were making progress here....

When I say contrary to scripture, I mean:
Do the Lyrics of the songs, contradict or go against scripture.

To be more specific i'll give you an example:

As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God's curse! Galatians 1:9

For me, I'm okay with Jenn Johnsons songs, because they contain true and accurate references to the Gospel and to scripture.

The Hokey Pokey isn't a Christian song, so what your saying makes no sense at all. This thread is about Christian Music, in particular Bethel Music/Jesus Culture/Jenn Johnson.

AGTG and OZ are saying they are not biblical, AGTG even said they are from Satanic origins. Which I don't agree with, I hope I clarified myself.

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

I think you misunderstood mike. He did say that the song did have the Gospel in it. He was actually agreeing with you.

Thanks Twin

 

[mikedsjr]

I thought we were making progress here....

When I say contrary to scripture, I mean:
Do the Lyrics of the songs, contradict or go against scripture.

To be more specific i'll give you an example:

As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God's curse! Galatians 1:9

For me, I'm okay with Jenn Johnsons songs, because they contain some true and accurate references to the Gospel and to scripture.

The Hokey Pokey isn't a Christian song, so what your saying makes no sense at all. Th thread is about Christian Music, in particular Bethel Music/Jesus Culture/Jenn Johnson.

AGTG and OZ are basicily saying they are not biblical. Which I don't agree with, I hope I clarified myself.

You can't give a vague symbolic allusion to a part of the gospel and still be the gospel.

Im not for praise music because it's me oriented. People have stated "But Paul said...." Or "David sang..." . The difference is THAT is Scripture. It's God breathed. The worship song your singing with all the I's, My's and Me's ISNT. If you want to sing word for word Scripture saying such things, then I'm down with that because it's Scripture.

 

[mikedsjr]

My stance does come from my experience and what I've learned. My experience has shown me there is a relationship between vague praise music and what I classify as bad sermons. I left my last church because of this, but not until my wife felt something had changed too. Before that I hated church despite going nearly every week. When I didn't attend I felt no love loss. I could get moralistic therapeutic deism from Tony Robbins, but he's a better teacher. I value people willing to actually preach the word and not themselves and worship songs proclaiming the gospel and I can literally figure out the song is doctrinally sound.

Don't worry. I'm not attending your radical church.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

My stance does come from my experience and what I've learned. My experience has shown me there is a relationship between vague praise music and what I classify as bad sermons. I left my last church because of this, but not until my wife felt something had changed too. Before that I hated church despite going nearly every week. When I didn't attend I felt no love loss. I could get moralistic therapeutic deism from Tony Robbins, but he's a better teacher. I value people willing to actually preach the word and not themselves and worship songs proclaiming the gospel and I can literally figure out the song is doctrinally sound.

Don't worry. I'm not attending your radical church.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You dont even know what church I attend - I go to a Baptist church.

I'm not talking about Church,neither is this thread talking about Church - It's talking about Lyrics, All I said is they are not contrary to the message of the gospel the message of the cross, nor are they against scripture.

Don't bring your emotions and your expediences up, I'm talking about taking the lyrics of the song and comparing them to the Bible.

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

You can't give a vague symbolic allusion to a part of the gospel and still be the gospel.

Im not for praise music because it's me oriented. People have stated "But Paul said...." Or "David sang..." . The difference is THAT is Scripture. It's God breathed. The worship song your singing with all the I's, My's and Me's ISNT. If you want to sing word for word Scripture saying such things, then I'm down with that because it's Scripture.

You can't give a vague symbolic allusion to a part of the gospel and still be the gospel. <--- You said this

Yes you can, I said it's part of the Gospel.

If I said God died in place of the sinner or believer, Is that not part of the Gospel? It's not the ENTIRE Gospel, but it is part of the Gospel

 

[mikedsjr]

I don't listen to Christian music outside church. So I'm dealing with music in church.

I'm sorry but I'm too selfish not to leave my emotions out. Besides, you've only listed one song that was consistent with Scripture from Bethel.

From current album(skimming)
Shine on us: nope
Faithful to the end: nope
Be Enthroned: ok
Pieces: nope
The lion and the lamb: somethings amiss
Thank you: nope
Praises be lifted high: nope
Heaven comes: nope
Greatness of your glory: I know you'll say it definitely gospel, but it is missing important info to be clear gospel.
Mercy: nope
Spirit move: no
Glory to Glory: see lion and the lamb.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bluelion]

You can't give a vague symbolic allusion to a part of the gospel and still be the gospel. <--- You said this

Yes you can, I said it's part of the Gospel.

If I said God died in place of the sinner or believer, Is that not part of the Gospel? It's not the ENTIRE Gospel, but it is part of the Gospel

He says he wanted word for word Gospel, you saw he stop addressing me when i showed there are no songs word for word. Your not going to get any where, some people have chains on them and while I tried to free my brother a little it did not work, best to let it be it is not a matter of salvation.

 

[Bluelion]

I don't listen to Christian music outside church. So I'm dealing with music in church.

I'm sorry but I'm too selfish not to leave my emotions out. Besides, you've only listed one song that was consistent with Scripture from Bethel.

From current album(skimming)
Shine on us: nope
Faithful to the end: nope
Be Enthroned: ok
Pieces: nope
The lion and the lamb: somethings amiss
Thank you: nope
Praises be lifted high: nope
Heaven comes: nope
Greatness of your glory: I know you'll say it definitely gospel, but it is missing important info to be clear gospel.
Mercy: nope
Spirit move: no
Glory to Glory: see lion and the lamb.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Then you admit you do not follow God? You said you are to selfish God tell us not to be, so you admit you are sinning right now?

 

[mikedsjr]

You can't give a vague symbolic allusion to a part of the gospel and still be the gospel. <--- You said this

Yes you can, I said it's part of the Gospel.

If I said God died in place of the sinner or believer, Is that not part of the Gospel? It's not the ENTIRE Gospel, but it is part of the Gospel

Left alone, it's not the gospel. If that's the only thing a nonchristian hears, they haven't heard the gospel. As Oz said, your looking at a Me-centric gospel. It's not about truth, consistent for all people for all times. It's about your little world.

 

[Bluelion]

Left alone, it's not the gospel. If that's the only thing a nonchristian hears, they haven't heard the gospel. As Oz said, your looking at a Me-centric gospel. It's not about truth, consistent for all people for all times. It's about your little world.

Sounds like God the dictator, you may no speak a word other than these. Sorry that is not how The Holy SPirit works, and no preacher does a word for word sermon, sorry it not done, so to ask music to do it is unreasonable and shows you are not an artist.

 

[mikedsjr]

Then you admit you do not follow God? You said you are to selfish God tell us not to be, so you admit you are sinning right now?

Spoken like a Puritan.

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

Left alone, it's not the gospel. If that's the only thing a nonchristian hears, they haven't heard the gospel. As Oz said, your looking at a Me-centric gospel. It's not about truth, consistent for all people for all times. It's about your little world.

Is this producing fruit? Are you being conformed to the image of Christ?

Faith comes by hearing the Word of God, not listening to music. Pursuant to the Word of God, not according to me.

13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” 14 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15 And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!16 But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?” 17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ. Romans 10:13-17

See, Faith comes from hearing the Word of God, from a preacher/evangelist.

God makes provision for Salvation and the mean by which He does is from hearing the Word of God, the Bible, and this from preachers/evangelist etc.

Were talking about Music, I again will defend the music it is not un- biblical. And It's Christ Glorifying Music.

 

[Bluelion]

Spoken like a Puritan.

You got a label for every thing lol guess that is what some people need in order to live in this world.

 

[OzSpen]

Okay let me re state that.

Verse 1
There is a place of sorrow and love
The innocent Savior broken and bleeding for us
The nails in His hands and thorns on His brow
Rivers of mercy endlessly flowing down
(Propitiation)

Question: "What is propitiation?"

Answer: The word propitiation carries the basic idea of appeasement or satisfaction, specifically toward God. Propitiation is a two-part act that involves appeasing the wrath of an offended person and being reconciled to him.

It's part of propitiation, and a part of the Gospel message.

Christ dieing in place of the sinner.

I guess I meant substitutionary atonement rather then propitiation

Andy,

Why have you plagiarised this definition of propitiation from GotQuestions?com and the topic, 'What is propitiation?' Plagiarism is stealing somebody else's ideas and making them look like your own. The Oxford dictionaries online (2016. s v plagiarism) gives the definition, 'The practice of taking someone else’s work or ideas and passing them off as one’s own'.

This is a serious ethical issue when Christians do this.

Oz

 

[Bluelion]

Andy,

Why have you plagiarised this definition of propitiation from GotQuestions?com and the topic, 'What is propitiation?' Plagiarism is stealing somebody else's ideas and making them look like your own. The Oxford dictionaries online (2016. s v plagiarism) gives the definition, 'The practice of taking someone else’s work or ideas and passing them off as one’s own'.

This is a serious ethical issue when Christians do this.

Oz

maybe he for got to to cite brother. It is drilled in to us to cite work but not everyone, lets get the whole story before we assume brother.

 

[mikedsjr]

You got a label for every thing lol guess that is what some people need in order to live in this world.

I have labels for Christians I think wear masks to hide behind. Is that a sin? Could be. But Christ died for that sin too. I'm both perfect in God's eyes through the blood of Christ and still sinner at the same time. I sin all the time. Yesterday I drove 90 in a 60 because I love driving fast. It's exhilarating. I love hearing and being reminded of the gospel.

Again, the subject is Bethel Music. It isn't about all Christian music. In reality, the subject might be is Bethel Church teaching false theology? I believe it is. And I don't want nothing to do with the Church. It's guilty till proven innocent, imo.

There should be church councils today to deal with churches like them. Let them prove they aren't. If they are arrogant enough, they would tell a council to go to