Abiogenesis and Evolution

[whois]

Has the placebo effect ever cured cancer or heart disease? No.
"The placebo effect can make some treatments seem like they help certain symptoms, when in fact they do nothing to directly cause a change in the disease."
Source: http://www.cancer.org/treatment/treatmentsandsideeffects/treatmenttypes/placebo-effect

you know, this is sort of like denying the human will.
the placebo effect is a documented fact, period.
the medical literature is full of this phenomenon.
why do you think medical tests usually employ double blind trials?

 

[malvina]

- It certainly has. Several of the people I prayed for had cancer and were healed but this is not something to argue about with Atheists or Christians who don't believe that God heals today because there's no purpose. Healing comes about by Faith in God and Belief that He will answer. If you haven't got that kind of Belief and Faith then it's all a waste of time. However, for those interested I will explain what God showed me regarding cancer. It was, 'Don't ask me to take the cancer away ask me why it is there'
We are spiritual beings, during our life-time we can pick up positive and negative spirits that affect our physical body. Cancer is a death ailment we have to ask Him to reveal how the person opened themselves up to it. For example I found one lady was healed after she confessed she had been praying to go with her deceased husband I said, 'How can you expect to be healthy if you've been praying to die all this time? After confession she was healed - for 3 yrs - when I noticed her pass by with this 'special pale face' again, she saw me look and automatically came in...'It's back' we both said. 'Ok we know why it happened before what is happening now? The lady then burst into tears saying she had been praying the same prayer to go with her
husband.. 'But- I'm so LONELY'.. she wailed. Well let us pray about that. I asked The Lord to heal her loneliness.
Shortly after that I moved my little Christian book shop into a better area with 4 big shops. It was about 9 yrs later when I was in Eileen's area again. I looked at her house and had a feeling she wasn't there and I walked to the door - no little poodle barking.. and felt apprehensive - scared! This young lady answered. 'Do you live here now? 'Yes I bought the place 3 yrs ago.' I felt sad, and said, 'I was looking for 'Eileen' is she still around? She said, 'Oh yes! Eileen is fine - she moved into a Granny flat in her daughter's garden and is very happy looking after the kids'
I never cease to marvel about the Love and power of the Lord. He is always there if we believe and call on Him. That's my experience anyway!

 

[Faith77]

That's a subjective viewpoint. I differ and say that it appears there was a plan, purpose and goal.

So do I - I believe there was a plan, purpose and goal. Maybe I shouldn't have used a double negative.

Neither can we prove, with the scientific method as a basis, that it's a completely random process.

Of course not, which is why science doesn't say about whether it is guided or not, as that is not in its realm. It just appears random.

As Christians, we can say that God had a plan to create humanity.

I have no dispute with that.

Depends on what form of evolution you're speaking of. The form which claims that humanity is driven by randomness with the result being nothing more than various forms of sacks of chemicals isn't supported by the scientific method.

I don't know of the various forms of evolution, but I have no problem with the broad understanding of the theory. It is simply an explanation of what we observe, which includes, on the face of it, randomness. And that we are a sack of chemical is a rather reductionist point of view that few would see any sense in taking too seriously. Most scientists would agree that we are infinitely more than that, even if we are, on the face of it, nothing more than chemicals.

 

[sfs]

Is it worth pointing out that all of the recent posts are completely off topic for this thread?

I'd still like to hear an answer to the original question: how would evolutionary biology change if we learned that the first life (and only the first life) was directly created?

 

[Faith77]

Is it worth pointing out that all of the recent posts are completely off topic for this thread?

I'd still like to hear an answer to the original question: how would evolutionary biology change if we learned that the first life (and only the first life) was directly created?

My first post intended to do just that, and my answer was evolutionary biology would not change. I also elaborated on why I thought so, and I guess the next posts were responding to those who may have misunderstood the elaborations. Which is I guess what tends to happen!

 

[029b10]

- Healing comes about by Faith in God and Belief that He will answer. If you haven't got that kind of Belief and Faith then it's all a waste of time.

So the reason the faithful aren't healed is because they lack the faith and belief necessary for God to answer?

Sorry for the off topic question but just had to ask

 

[Goonie]

- It certainly has. Several of the people I prayed for had cancer and were healed but this is not something to argue about with Atheists or Christians who don't believe that God heals today because there's no purpose. Healing comes about by Faith in God and Belief that He will answer. If you haven't got that kind of Belief and Faith then it's all a waste of time. However, for those interested I will explain what God showed me regarding cancer. It was, 'Don't ask me to take the cancer away ask me why it is there'
We are spiritual beings, during our life-time we can pick up positive and negative spirits that affect our physical body. Cancer is a death ailment we have to ask Him to reveal how the person opened themselves up to it. For example I found one lady was healed after she confessed she had been praying to go with her deceased husband I said, 'How can you expect to be healthy if you've been praying to die all this time? After confession she was healed - for 3 yrs - when I noticed her pass by with this 'special pale face' again, she saw me look and automatically came in...'It's back' we both said. 'Ok we know why it happened before what is happening now? The lady then burst into tears saying she had been praying the same prayer to go with her
husband.. 'But- I'm so LONELY'.. she wailed. Well let us pray about that. I asked The Lord to heal her loneliness.
Shortly after that I moved my little Christian book shop into a better area with 4 big shops. It was about 9 yrs later when I was in Eileen's area again. I looked at her house and had a feeling she wasn't there and I walked to the door - no little poodle barking.. and felt apprehensive - scared! This young lady answered. 'Do you live here now? 'Yes I bought the place 3 yrs ago.' I felt sad, and said, 'I was looking for 'Eileen' is she still around? She said, 'Oh yes! Eileen is fine - she moved into a Granny flat in her daughter's garden and is very happy looking after the kids'
I never cease to marvel about the Love and power of the Lord. He is always there if we believe and call on Him. That's my experience anyway!

And yet thousands die in Africa regardless of belief, right or wrong. Children die of leukaemia whilst in another ward an adulterer/ liar/ homosexual will recover despite the odds.

 

[029b10]

Is it worth pointing out that all of the recent posts are completely off topic for this thread?

I'd still like to hear an answer to the original question: how would evolutionary biology change if we learned that the first life (and only the first life) was directly created?

A single cell organism might be a form of living matter, but it wouldn't constitute life. However, since the reproductive process of mammals requires the fusion of two cells, then I guess Richard Dawkins is just as even more ignorant than he claims Americans are who believe man originated from a single set of procreators.

 

[malvina]

So the reason the faithful aren't healed is because they lack the faith and belief necessary for God to answer?

Sorry for the off topic question but just had to ask

Are you asking about yourself here? I don't know what sort of church you attend. When I first committed my life to Him it was in a church that had become famous for it's ministry of healing. All new members were taught the scriptures that if you ask Believing He will answer. admittedly since I came from UK to Australia I have never found a church with the same belief and Faith in healing but I have never forgotten what happened to me at that time My whole life was transformed. When I prayed God would answer.
One needs to pray with someone that has a 'Gift of Healing' For my part He showed me that our emotions frequently affect our body, when the emotion was confessed and dealt with the body would heal. Each emotion often related to the same part i.e. 'back pain' could be brought on by unconfessed jealousy, eczema a guilt complex and so on. I went through it myself and lost years of back pain overnight
When someone has the belief and faith to be healed God can lead them to an appropriate person to pray for them. I live alone and don't get out much now, but I am blessed with enough faith to expect God to heal me and He does. Now I am finished on this subject and can delete it if you so wish

 

[Goonie]

And yet thousands die in Africa regardless of belief, right or wrong. Children die of leukaemia whilst in another ward an adulterer/ liar/ homosexual will recover despite the odds.

Apologies, completely off topic.

 

[Goonie]

Are you asking about yourself here? I don't know what sort of church you attend. When I first committed my life to Him it was in a church that had become famous for it's ministry of healing. All new members were taught the scriptures that if you ask Believing He will answer. admittedly since I came from UK to Australia I have never found a church with the same belief and Faith in healing but I have never forgotten what happened to me at that time My whole life was transformed. When I prayed God would answer.
One needs to pray with someone that has a 'Gift of Healing' For my part He showed me that our emotions frequently affect our body, when the emotion was confessed and dealt with the body would heal. Each emotion often related to the same part i.e. 'back pain' could be brought on by unconfessed jealousy, eczema a guilt complex and so on. I went through it myself and lost years of back pain overnight
When someone has the belief and faith to be healed God can lead them to an appropriate person to pray for them. I live alone and don't get out much now, but I am blessed with enough faith to expect God to heal me and He does. Now I am finished on this subject and can delete it if you so wish

I apologise, my post was completely of topic, and unwarranted.

 

[bhsmte]

If you Believed in Him you wouldn't have to ask that question
You can see a couple of miracles in my new blog. a child on her 3rd birthday and Jotta

I believed in him for most of my life and still asked that question.

 

[bhsmte]

If you was a Christian and sought the Lord over these questions He would give you suitable answer I don't try to do God's work for Him and nor should anyone else

You do claim miracles when it suits you and then when faced with the realities of those who suffer and die, you say to ask God?

 

[bhsmte]

Has the placebo effect ever cured cancer or heart disease? No.
"The placebo effect can make some treatments seem like they help certain symptoms, when in fact they do nothing to directly cause a change in the disease."
Source: http://www.cancer.org/treatment/treatmentsandsideeffects/treatmenttypes/placebo-effect

It is called the temporary impact the mind can have on how you perceive how you feel.

Ever been sick for a while and then you go to the doctor and just sitting in the exam room talking to the doc makes you feel better?

 

[malvina]

You do claim miracles when it suits you and then when faced with the realities of those who suffer and die, you say to ask God?

Everyone suffers and dies without His help. There's no atheists on the battle-field

 

[bhsmte]

Everyone suffers and dies without His help. There's no atheists on the battle-field

Seems contradictory to your claim of his healing a select few.

 

[JonFromMinnesota]

Everyone suffers and dies without His help. There's no atheists on the battle-field

Wrong: http://militaryatheists.org/atheists-in-foxholes/

 

[whois]

Is it worth pointing out that all of the recent posts are completely off topic for this thread?

I'd still like to hear an answer to the original question: how would evolutionary biology change if we learned that the first life (and only the first life) was directly created?

scientists wouldn't have to no longer choose their words.

 

[AV1611VET]

Why doesn't God heal amputees?

He did -- in the Garden.

But that was during another dispensation.

 

[AV1611VET]

I asked a fair question. If God exists, why doesn't he heal amputees? Why not Alzheimer's? Why not Parkinsons disease?

Yup.

The more He does for us, the more we want.

Why did you stop at Parkinson's?

Why not poison ivy? diaper rash? STDs? stomach aches? drunken stupors?