Tools far pre date man, evolution theory kicked in face

[Subduction Zone]

There is no reason not to believe the Bible. The buildings we read about in the Bible are still there. Saddan Hussein tried to rebuild the city of Babylon but just as the Bible says the city is empty and uninhabited today.

Except for the facts that the first two books have been thoroughly refuted, it is filled with hundreds of self contradictions, failed prophecies, and has terrible moral values to name only a few problems. But besides that I am sure that "there is no reason not to believe the Bible".

 

[joshua 1 9]

Except for the facts that the first two books have been thoroughly refuted, it is filled with hundreds of self contradictions, failed prophecies, and has terrible moral values to name only a few problems. But besides that I am sure that "there is no reason not to believe the Bible".

They have not been refuted at all. New information is now available so we now have a better more accurate understanding. Some of the traditional interpretations were based on outdated science. All of man's knowledge has gone through the same thing. As new information becomes available then we need to revise what we believe. Christianity has made a huge contribution to scientific discovery.

 

[davedajobauk]

Noah's flood "clean dissolved" Adam's earth but not the present earth. Isaiah 24:19 Our Earth cannot be dissolved in water because it's a rock with a molten core which would boil away any water which came near it. Adam's Earth was only 22.5 feet high at it highest point and was covered with water when the flood prevailed to a depth of only 15 cubits (22.5 feet). Gen 7:19 Sounds Flat, doesn't it? Adam's world had only 4 Rivers which all ran out of the Garden of Eden, which was the highest point on Adam's Earth. There is NO such place on the present Earth since our Earth has thousands of Rivers but they don't all run downhill from a single point.

Our world has NEVER suffered a Global Flood and Pangaea has nothing to do with the story of the arrival of the first Humans on this Planet of Apes. Amen?

Science and the Bible agree farming agriculture began in the Tigris Euphrates in what history calls mesopotamia. A lot of research has gone into the study of how the domestication of plants and animals spread to Europe from the middle east.

They have not been refuted at all. New information is now available so we now have a better more accurate understanding. Some of the traditional interpretations were based on outdated science. All of man's knowledge has gone through the same thing. As new information becomes available then we need to revise what we believe. Christianity has made a huge contribution to scientific discovery.

It's that 'old' CHRONOLOGY THING again

Scientists aren’t sure why time exists, and have a lot of difficulty describing it.
Time is a funny thing. It adds a whole new dimension, and it appears to exist simply to stop everything from happening at once. But throughout history the most brilliant minds have tried to explain time and found it a very, very difficult task. You see, physics equations don’t depend on time – they are statements of processes, but those processes don’t require a present moment: They simply are. This has led to a lot of argument about the nature of time, what time is made of, and if time even exists at all.

New discoveries challenge our notions about when civilization actually began.
While it’s tempting to put the start of civilization at the beginning of recorded history, things aren’t so simple. The more we study ancient remains, the harder it becomes to date civilization. For example, we have things like iron pipes that appear to have been smelted 150,000 years ago, before human ancestors had even started thinking about fire – or so we thought. Then there’s the Gobekli Tepe in Turkey, a complex religious mini-city that appears to be far older than Stonehenge and every other “oldest” structure. Just when did humans start making stuff? We can’t blame it all on aliens (more on that later).

[Red font colour is mine for highlighting]

iow: a mite earlier than 4 - 6 thousand years (?)

source: http://boreburn.com/15-intriguing-questions-that-still-baffle-scientists/12402/2

 

[justlookinla]

and has terrible moral values

What moral values are terrible?

 

[Gene2memE]

Those '150,000 year old iron pipes' aren't anything of the sort. They're tree roots that underwent fossilisation while embedded in sandstone, and picked up iron, potassium, aluminum and sodium during the process, due to leaching from nearby rocks. When they were cut open, they were solid, contained the remains of organic material and tree-ring formations.

Never let the evidence get in the way of a good story though...

 

[davedajobauk]

Those '150,000 year old iron pipes' aren't anything of the sort. They're tree roots that underwent fossilisation while embedded in sandstone, and picked up iron, potassium, aluminum and sodium during the process, due to leaching from nearby rocks. When they were cut open, they were solid, contained the remains of organic material and tree-ring formations.

Never let the evidence get in the way of a good story though...

Thank you for your reply .... however, several sources are stating that they were certainly smelted
Now, unless molten [smelted] iron poured out of the ground and cooled around tree trunks while trees were still vertical
the almost horizontal tree roots would not have been so evenly covered {influence of, gravity} ?

Scientists from the China Seismological Bureau visited the lake in 2001 to examine the pipes. Samples brought back to the Beijing Institute of Geology were examined by thermoluminescence dating, a technique that can determine how long it's been since a crystalline mineral was either heated or exposed to sunlight. The result came back that if these were indeed iron pipes that had been smelted, they were made 140-150,000 years ago. Human history in the region only goes back some 30,000 years

Again.... the red font colour (highlighting) is mine
source: http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4181

This page also shows a theory like the one you offered:

Three years before Bai Yu took his first peek into the cave at Lake Toson, researchers Mossa and Schumacher wrote in the Journal of Sedimentary Research about fossil tree casts in Louisiana. They found cylindrical structures in the soil, thermoluminescence dated from 75-95,000 years ago. The chemical composition of the cylinders varied depending on where and when they formed and in what type of soil. The authors found that these were the fossilized casts of tree roots, formed by pedogenesis (the process by which soil is created) and diagenesis (the lithification of soil into rock through compaction and cementation). The result of this process was to create metallic pipelike structures, which by comparing the descriptions offered by researchers, appear to be a perfect match for the Baigong Pipes.

I don't 'see' how chemically created metallic material [via: leaching from iron rich ores]
can at any point, be termed "SMELTED".....

 

[dad]

"Babel" is simply another morality tale at best in the Bible. There is no reasonable reason to believe that story.

Jesus confirmed Scripture is true. That is reason enough. Also, if you notice there are a lot of different languages. There is no reasonable reason to believe your baseless doubts.

Wrong, there are many many Christians that will tell you wholeheartedly that they "know Jesus" and do not believe the Ark story. Your insistence on treating this as if it were true drives people from your beliefs. Is that really your goal?

It is better to believe God than man. We can't go by glib professions of man, but by the word of God.

 

[dad]

Noah's flood "clean dissolved" Adam's earth but not the present earth.

That doesn't mean that the rocks and stuff we know came from another planet.

Isaiah 24:19 Our Earth cannot be dissolved in water because it's a rock with a molten core which would boil away any water which came near it. Adam's Earth was only 22.5 feet high at it highest point

Really? No high trees then? No stars...clouds? Birds like the eagle flew a few feet above the floor!! Gong!

and was covered with water when the flood prevailed to a depth of only 15 cubits (22.5 feet).

That was how high the water was above the highest hills.

Gen 7:19 Sounds Flat, doesn't it? Adam's world had only 4 Rivers which all ran out of the Garden of Eden, which was the highest point on Adam's Earth.

The rivers came from Eden but that doesn't mean they were the only rivers on earth.

There is NO such place on the present Earth since our Earth has thousands of Rivers but they don't all run downhill from a single point.

A lot happened to earth since Eden.

Our world has NEVER suffered a Global Flood

Jesus disagrees as do other folks in His word.

and Pangaea has nothing to do with the story of the arrival of the first Humans on this Planet of Apes. Amen?

Amen! Absolutely nothing. Planet of apes? Come on now. The creation account didn't even mention them.

 

[dad]

In the day of Noah the earth was cleansed with water. At the end of the church age the earth will be cleansed with fire.

No. The fire comes after the 1000 year reign of Christ on earth with His saints. The church age ends in the Tribulation period.

 

[Subduction Zone]

They have not been refuted at all. New information is now available so we now have a better more accurate understanding. Some of the traditional interpretations were based on outdated science. All of man's knowledge has gone through the same thing. As new information becomes available then we need to revise what we believe. Christianity has made a huge contribution to scientific discovery.

You are sadly mistaken. Noah's Flood, never happened. Garden of Eden, never happened. Let's see your supposed sources. I doubt if you can find a valid source that makes such claims. You will probably be using sources where the workers are required to abandon the scientific method.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Jesus confirmed Scripture is true. That is reason enough. Also, if you notice there are a lot of different languages. There is no reasonable reason to believe your baseless doubts.

He did no such thing. At best he made a poetic referral to the past. That is far from "confirmation". Jesus never said anything that supported the Noah's Ark or even the Garden of Eden story as fact.

It is better to believe God than man. We can't go by glib professions of man, but by the word of God.

But there is no "word of God". The Bible may explain your religious beliefs but its countless flaws make a claim that it is the "word of God" blasphemous to say the least. You are claiming that your God is rather incompetent. I don't see that as being respectful at all.

 

[Subduction Zone]

What moral values are terrible?

How about ordering the genocide of a people and confiscating and raping the young women and girls of that tribe?

 

[joshua 1 9]

You are sadly mistaken. Noah's Flood, never happened. Garden of Eden, never happened. Let's see your supposed sources. I doubt if you can find a valid source that makes such claims. You will probably be using sources where the workers are required to abandon the scientific method.

How many times do I have to say this over and over again? Look in your history book and you will find ancient mesopotamia where civilization began and agriculture spread to the world. This is known as the fertile crescent in the area between the Tigris and Euphrates. I think your allowing yourself to be confused by the traditions of man. Jesus clearly teaches us not to allow man's teaching to lead you astray. You have a Bible. You have science. You have history. If that is not enough for you to figure it out than God Wil give you the Holy Spirit of God to guide you and lead you into the truth. But if you want to allow the apostasy to continue to confuse you than have at it.

Archeology has effectively been used for a over 100 years to dig up artifacts and hard evidence for the Bible. Now science contributes a lot to our understanding of eco systems and the biodiversity we find. The professors in the universities in Jerusalem are well aware of the domestication of plants and animals in the middle east. All the plants and animals we find in our Bible. So show me where you find a contradiction between your science text books and the Bible. Back up your claims with some sort of substance.

 

[TLK Valentine]

There is no reason not to believe the Bible. The buildings we read about in the Bible are still there. Saddan Hussein tried to rebuild the city of Babylon but just as the Bible says the city is empty and uninhabited today.

Dorothy Gale lived in Kansas, and her house was swept up in a tornado and carried "somewhere over the rainbow."

Since girls named Dorothy, Kansas, and tornadoes all exist (and a EF5 can easily relocate a house), there is no reason not to believe The Wizard of Oz.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Dorothy Gale lived in Kansas, and her house was swept up in a tornado and carried "somewhere over the rainbow."

Since girls named Dorothy, Kansas, and tornadoes all exist (and a EF5 can easily relocate a house), there is no reason not to believe The Wizard of Oz.

We are not talking about movies although I am sure you would be fascinated by that conversation. We are talking about science, history and the Bible. This is a fact based discussion backed up with evidence that can withstand the rigors of scientific investigation. We all have lots of supposition in life. The challenge then is what can we verify. What can we find evidence for. Right now you are failing to substantiate your theory about the Bible. You have failed to present anything of any substantiate to back up your opinions and suppositions.

If you want to have a conversation about Judy Garland and the movies she made then we can do that also.

 

[Subduction Zone]

How many times do I have to say this over and over again? Look in your history book and you will find ancient mesopotamia where civilization began and agriculture spread to the world. This is known as the fertile crescent in the area between the Tigris and Euphrates. I think your allowing yourself to be confused by the traditions of man. Jesus clearly teaches us not to allow man's teaching to lead you astray. You have a Bible. You have science. You have history. If that is not enough for you to figure it out than God Wil give you the Holy Spirit of God to guide you and lead you into the truth. But if you want to allow the apostasy to continue to confuse you than have at it.

Archeology has effectively been used for a over 100 years to dig up artifacts and hard evidence for the Bible. Now science contributes a lot to our understanding of eco systems and the biodiversity we find. The professors in the universities in Jerusalem are well aware of the domestication of plants and animals in the middle east. All the plants and animals we find in our Bible. So show me where you find a contradiction between your science text books and the Bible. Back up your claims with some sort of substance.

So what? That is only evidence of where western civilization started and nothing more.

And if you are going to refer to archaeology then you have to realize that it only confirms part of the Bible. It also refutes all of Exodus. Archaeologists will tell you that roughly two million people did not leave Egypt in a mass emigration.

Many Christians make the "all or nothing" mistake. They think either the Bible is all true or not true at all and do not realize that the answer is in the middle. The Bible gets a fair amount of history right. But when it also gets a fair amount exceedingly wrong.

 

[Ben West]

Science and the Bible agree farming agriculture began in the Tigris Euphrates in what history calls mesopotamia. A lot of research has gone into the study of how the domestication of plants and animals spread to Europe from the middle east.

Amen. Noah was the first farmer on this Planet. Before he arrived the sons of God (prehistoric man) had lived here for Millions of years and they NEVER planted a crop, built a house nor did anything which indicated they were Humans. This is because they were NOT Humans (descendants of Adam) as Science has falsely classified them. Amen?

 

[joshua 1 9]

So what? That is only evidence of where western civilization started and nothing more.

And if you are going to refer to archaeology then you have to realize that it only confirms part of the Bible. It also refutes all of Exodus. Archaeologists will tell you that roughly two million people did not leave Egypt in a mass emigration.

Many Christians make the "all or nothing" mistake. They think either the Bible is all true or not true at all and do not realize that the answer is in the middle. The Bible gets a fair amount of history right. But when it also gets a fair amount exceedingly wrong.

That is the nature of science. You got to work with what you have. Of course we always want more. What we have is never enough for us. That is why people devote their entire live to research and investigation. That's why students will spend their whole summer scratching at the ground sifting through the soil and dirt looking for more artifacts, evidence and clues.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Amen. Noah was the first farmer on this Planet. Before he arrived the sons of God (prehistoric man) had lived here for Millions of years and they NEVER planted a crop, built a house nor did anything which indicated they were Humans. This is because they were NOT Humans (descendants of Adam) as Science has falsely classified them. Amen?

Before Adam they were what science calls hunter gathers. The Bible refers to the non Hebrew people as gentiles.

 

[joshua 1 9]

And if you are going to refer to archaeology then you have to realize that it only confirms part of the Bible. It also refutes all of Exodus. Archaeologists will tell you that roughly two million people did not leave Egypt in a mass emigration.

Wrong again. Your batting zero for zero. There is plenty of archeological evidence for a Hebrew settlement in Egypt. Just like there is evidence for other cities we read about in the Bible. People have put a lot of effort into finding that evidence.