Tools far pre date man, evolution theory kicked in face

[dad]

He did no such thing. At best he made a poetic referral to the past. That is far from "confirmation". Jesus never said anything that supported the Noah's Ark or even the Garden of Eden story as fact.

Yes He did actually. He said that we should believe Moses and the Prophets. He also referred to the flood and mentioned that the wicked were all taken away by it. The New Testament speaks of the flood also here and there, and in no way is it spoken about as some non event in the mind of Subduction Zone.

But there is no "word of God".

Some humor.

The Bible may explain your religious beliefs but its countless flaws make a claim that it is the "word of God" blasphemous to say the least.

To call it anything else but from God actually would be that. Jesus and the writers of Scripture made that abundantly clear.

You are claiming that your God is rather incompetent. I don't see that as being respectful at all.

No I am claiming nothing of the insane sort.

 

[dad]

Amen. Noah was the first farmer on this Planet.

Able comes to mind.

Before he arrived the sons of God (prehistoric man) had lived here for Millions of years

Pagan Romper Room stories aside, there was no prehistoric man, the bible has the history since the beginning.

and they NEVER planted a crop, built a house nor did anything which indicated they were Humans.

True..monkey men did nothing at all ever, because you made them up.

This is because they were NOT Humans (descendants of Adam) as Science has falsely classified them. Amen?

? Science classifies man as from Adam?? Seems to me they are more into the monkey man fables like you....but at least they don't try to blame the bible.

 

[joshua 1 9]

So what? That is only evidence of where western civilization started and nothing more.

There are people that spend their whole life to study the Bible and they still are only beginning. Your statement of "nothing more" could not be further from the truth. Although I am beginning to get the indication that you know very little of the vast knowledge in the Bible. At least statements like "nothing more" leads me to that conclusion.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Wrong again. Your batting zero for zero. There is plenty of archeological evidence for a Hebrew settlement in Egypt. Just like there is evidence for other cities we read about in the Bible. People have put a lot of effort into finding that evidence.

Wrong again Josh. There may have been a small handful of people that eventually became what we recognize as Jews. That does not support the Exodus claim. I am talking about the parts of the story that clearly did not happen. Archaeologist will tell you that there is no way that they could have missed the mass exodus of a group of people that then got lost in an amazingly small desert for forty years. This is a fact that even Jews admit, and this is a key tenet to their religion:

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-Ed-Contributors/The-Exodus-Does-archaeology-have-a-say-348464

The Exodus is so fundamental to us and our Jewish sources that it is embarrassing that there is no evidence outside of the Bible to support it.

At best the author found a time period where the ancestors of Jews could have lived in Egypt as he states in the conclusion:

Evidence or not for the Exodus? Evidence there is none, but we can see that there was one period in Egyptian history when such an event could have taken place, one period when the three major conditions suggested by the biblical account came together and could have given it plausibility. And that would make Akhenaten the Pharaoh of the Oppression and young Tutankhamun the Pharaoh of the Exodus. And the date? That would be around 1330 BCE.

Could have is a far cry from something that is confirmed. Most sources look at the claims of the Bible and the evidence that would have been left behind and simply so "No."

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Evidence_for_the_Exodus

Despite being regarded in Judaism as the primary factual historical narrative of the origin of the religion, culture and ethnicity, Exodus is now accepted by scholars as having been compiled in the 8th–7th centuries BCE from stories dating possibly as far back as the 13th century BCE, with further polishing in the 6th–5th centuries BCE, as a theological and political manifesto to unite the Israelites in the then‐current battle for territory against Egypt.[2]

Archaeologists from the 19th century onward were actually surprised not to find any evidence whatsoever for the events of Exodus. By the 1970s, archaeologists had largely given up regarding the Bible as any use at all as a field guide.

The archaeological evidence of local Canaanite, rather than Egyptian, origins of the kingdoms of Judah and Israel is "overwhelming," and leaves "no room for an Exodus from Egypt or a 40‐year pilgrimage through the Sinai wilderness."[3] The culture of the earliest Israelite settlements is Canaanite, their cult objects are of the Canaanite god El, the pottery is in the local Canaanite tradition, and the alphabet is early Canaanite. Almost the sole marker distinguishing Israelite villages from Canaanite sites is an absence of pig bones.

It is considered possible that those Canaanites who started regarding themselves as the Israelites were joined or led by a small group of Semites from Egypt, possibly the Hyksos people, possibly carrying stories that made it into Exodus. As the tribe expanded, they may have begun to clash with neighbors, perhaps sparking the tales of conflict in Joshua and Judges.

William Dever, an archaeologist normally associated with the more conservative end of Syro-Palestinian archaeology, has labeled the question of the historicity of Exodus “dead.” Israeli archaeologist Ze'ev Herzog provides the current consensus view on the historicity of the Exodus: “The Israelites never were in Egypt. They never came from abroad. This whole chain is broken. It is not a historical one. It is a later legendary reconstruction—made in the seventh century [BCE]—of a history that never happened.”[4]

Most myths have a seed of truth in their heart. There probably were early semites that lived in Egypt. They obviously left at some point in time. But as the saying goes stories grow with the telling and this is obviously such a case.

Arrgh! I did not put the bold text in this. I picked it up when I copied and pasted from an article that I cited. This is a new problem with the new software. Does anyone know how to edit it out? I tried to add a "{/b} " but with [] and had no luck.

 

[Ben West]

Ben:>>Noah's flood "clean dissolved" Adam's earth but not the present earth.

Dad:>>That doesn't mean that the rocks and stuff we know came from another planet.

Of course not. Adam's firmament/heaven/world (kosmos) was made the 2nd Day. Gen 1:6-8 Our heaven/firmament/Universe was made the 3rd Day. Gen 2:4

Isaiah 24:19 Our Earth cannot be dissolved in water because it's a rock with a molten core which would boil away any water which came near it. Adam's Earth was only 22.5 feet high at it highest point

Dad:>>Really? No high trees then? No stars...clouds? Birds like the eagle flew a few feet above the floor!! Gong!

According to Gen 7:19 the mountains were covered with water when the water prevailed upon Adam's Earth to a depth of 15 cubits.
Gen 7:19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered. Gen 7:20 Fifteen cubits upward (22.5 feet) did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.

Ben:>>and was covered with water when the flood prevailed to a depth of only 15 cubits (22.5 feet).

Dad:>>That was how high the water was above the highest hills.

Un-Scriptural, unless you can show us chapter and verse.

Gen 7:19 Sounds Flat, doesn't it? Adam's world had only 4 Rivers which all ran out of the Garden of Eden, which was the highest point on Adam's Earth.

Dad:>>The rivers came from Eden but that doesn't mean they were the only rivers on earth.

Then find us any mention of ANY other River on Adam's Earth in Scripture. Do you think it's okay to support your view by "adding to" what is actually written?

There is NO such place on the present Earth since our Earth has thousands of Rivers

Dad:>>but they don't all run downhill from a single point.

Amen. It's PROOF that our Earth is NOT Adam's Earth.

Dad:>>A lot happened to earth since Eden.

Ben:>>Our world has NEVER suffered a Global Flood

Dad:>>Jesus disagrees as do other folks in His word.

Jesus agrees with me because He knows that God totally destroyed Adam's Earth in the Flood. The Scoffers of the last days disagree with me and the Author of ll Peter 3:3-7, the Holy Spirit.

Ben:>>and Pangaea has nothing to do with the story of the arrival of the first Humans on this Planet of Apes. Amen?

Dad:>>Amen! Absolutely nothing. Planet of apes? Come on now. The creation account didn't even mention them.

Sure it does. The sons of God (prehistoric people on Adam's Earth) married and produced children with Adam's daughters. Gen 6:1-4 Notice that this happened again "and also after that" on Planet Earth when Noah's grandsons, like Cain on Adam's Earth, married and produced other Humans with the sons of God (prehistoric people) on our Planet when Noah arrived. They had been here for Millions of years UNLESS you can explain away their bones and teeth which were left behind.

The evidence is clear since EVERY Human on this Planet has the DNA and ERVs of the common ancestor of Apes...AND...the unique Human intelligence of Adam, who was made with an intelligence like God's. Gen 3:22 Amen?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yes He did actually. He said that we should believe Moses and the Prophets. He also referred to the flood and mentioned that the wicked were all taken away by it. The New Testament speaks of the flood also here and there, and in no way is it spoken about as some non event in the mind of Subduction Zone.

Instructing one to believe the prophets does not mean to believe the obvious mistaken claims of them. I do believe that he was referring to believing them on how to behave, not on how the world was formed or other events that the Bible clearly gets wrong. The Bible is far from being a science text.

Some humor.

That was not humor. That should be clear to you. Calling the Bible the "word of God" with all of its errors is an attack on the concept of a god.

To call it anything else but from God actually would be that. Jesus and the writers of Scripture made that abundantly clear.
No I am claiming nothing of the insane sort.

No, even the gospels disagree with each other. Any work of man, which the Bible clearly is, will have some flaws to it. Trying to pin those flaws on your God seems to be a very blasphemous action by you. There are many many Christians that have no problem accepting both the Bible and reality.

 

[Ben West]

Able comes to mind.

Pagan Romper Room stories aside, there was no prehistoric man, the bible has the history since the beginning.
True..monkey men did nothing at all ever, because you made them up.
? Science classifies man as from Adam?? Seems to me they are more into the monkey man fables like you....but at least they don't try to blame the bible.

Abel NEVER took a single step on our planet. He lived and died on Adam's world which was totally destroyed in the Flood as ll Peter 3:3-7 tell us. Do you classify yourself as a Scoffer of the last days? Where did the bones of ancient people, which have been found all over Planet Earth come from? Or did evil scientists plant these bones in an attempt to deceive?

Science has mistakenly classified the sons of God (prehistoric people) as Humans. They have Falsely believed that the common ancestor of Apes evolved into Humans. This is impossible scientifically, scripturally and historically, but today's scientists have REJECTED God's Truth in Genesis just as some religious people have. Amen?

 

[joshua 1 9]

Wrong again Josh. There may have been a small handful of people that eventually became what we recognize as Jews. That does not support the Exodus claim. I am talking about the parts of the story that clearly did not happen. Archaeologist will tell you that there is no way that they could have missed the mass exodus of a group of people that then got lost in an amazingly small desert for forty years. This is a fact that even Jews admit, and this is a key tenet to their religion:

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-Ed-Contributors/The-Exodus-Does-archaeology-have-a-say-348464



At best the author found a time period where the ancestors of Jews could have lived in Egypt as he states in the conclusion:



Could have is a far cry from something that is confirmed. Most sources look at the claims of the Bible and the evidence that would have been left behind and simply so "No."

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Evidence_for_the_Exodus



Most myths have a seed of truth in their heart. There probably were early semites that lived in Egypt. They obviously left at some point in time. But as the saying goes stories grow with the telling and this is obviously such a case.

Arrgh! I did not put the bold text in this. I picked it up when I copied and pasted from an article that I cited. This is a new problem with the new software. Does anyone know how to edit it out? I tried to add a "{/b} " but with [] and had no luck.

Actually I have seen the evidence your looking for in the wilderness. The reason they know it was A Hebrew site was the distance the toilet was from the camp site. They had an exact limit on how far they were allowed to travel on their day of Sabbath. The distance they had to walk to the toilet. This gave their campsite the shape of a foot. Thus they are told: every place you set your foot I have given to you. Even during the 1000 year reign of Christ the new jerusalem will be 1500 by 1500 miles. That happens to be the size of the Arab earth plate that the middle east sits on. How would Moses know that long before anyone ever heard of plate tectonics?

Your small handful is correct as Israel was the least of all nations. Even during the tribulation period when Israel will be a witness and testimony for God there will only be 144,000 of them that are genetically pure. 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Actually I have seen the evidence your looking for in the wilderness. The reason they know it was A Hebrew site was the distance the toilet was from the camp site. They had an exact limit on how far they were allowed to travel on their day of Sabbath. The distance they had to walk to the toilet. This gave their campsite the shape of a foot. Thus they are told: every place you set your foot I have given to you. Even during the 1000 year reign of Christ the new jerusalem will be 1500 by 1500 miles. That happens to be the size of the Arab earth plate that the middle east sits on. How would Moses know that long before anyone ever heard of plate tectonics?

Your small handful is correct as Israel was the least of all nations. Even during the tribulation period when Israel will be a witness and testimony for God there will only be 144,000 of them that are genetically pure. 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes.

Have you read Exodus? Do you know how many people were supposedly in the Exodus? A simple bathroom for a small camp is not supporting evidence of that story. And links are needed. Your word is no better than mine. I could make all sorts of ridiculous claims if no one would bother to make me support my claims.

And what is this other nonsense of yours? It looks like you are trying to use the logical fallacy of cramming the Bible into reality. Since so much of the Bible is rather vague at best it can be reinterpreted after the fact to match reality.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Have you read Exodus? Do you know how many people were supposedly in the Exodus? A simple bathroom for a small camp is not supporting evidence of that story. And links are needed. Your word is no better than mine. I could make all sorts of ridiculous claims if no one would bother to make me support my claims.

And what is this other nonsense of yours? It looks like you are trying to use the logical fallacy of cramming the Bible into reality. Since so much of the Bible is rather vague at best it can be reinterpreted after the fact to match reality.

I have read all of the bible, every word at least 5 times. You are here with a bunch of unsupported speculation wanting me to prove you wrong when you have the burden to provide something in the way of evidence to support your claims. You can try to say it ain't true it ain't so and it do mean a thing if you can not substantiate your claims.

http://www.amazon.com/Walking-Bible...1436299261&sr=8-3&keywords=walk+through+bruce

 

[Subduction Zone]

Actually. You are here with a bunch of unsupported speculation wanting me to prove you wrong when you have the burden to provide something in the way of evidence to support your claims.

What are you talking about? I made some claims that are common knowledge and when you made foolish attacks on my claims I backed them up with links.

I have supported my case. I have yet to see you support yours.

 

[joshua 1 9]

What are you talking about? I made some claims that are common knowledge and when you made foolish attacks on my claims I backed them up with links.

I have supported my case. I have yet to see you support yours.

Show me the post number your talking about where you provide scientific evidence to support your claim.

 

[joshua 1 9]

I have supported my case. I have yet to see you support yours.

If you run a Google search there is plenty of evidence of Israel in Egypt. No reason for me to duplicate there efforts to spoon feed the information to you.

There is plenty of archeological evidence that indicate that the Jews were enslaved in Ancient Egypt. Many books have been written on this topic, one of them is “Israel in Egypt – Evidence for the Authenticity of the Exodus Tradition” written by James Hoffmeier.



Additionally a papyrus was found in Egypt in the nineteenth century which describes in detail many of the plagues and the Exodus itself. This papyrus, which currently resides in a Dutch museum, is known as the Ipuwer Papyrus, which was written by an Egyptian who was an eye-witness to these events.

Nevertheless, is there any more compelling evidence than the fact that for more than 3,000 years Jews have sat down by the Seder table and repeated the exact same story to their children? This is a chain of a direct unbroken tradition passed down from fathers who saw the events, to their children who in turn passed it down to their children, who passed it down to their children...

 

[Subduction Zone]

Show me the post number your talking about where you provide scientific evidence to support your claim.

The subject was archaeology and I presented links to articles that explained how the Exodus of the Bible did not happen. Please try to pay attention.

Now provide some reliable evidence for your claims please. You and I both know that you do not have any.

 

[Subduction Zone]

If you run a Google search there is plenty of evidence of Israel in Egypt. No reason for me to duplicate there efforts to spoon feed the information to you.

Wrong, there is. You made the claim, the burden of proof is upon you. Now you are being highly hypocritical since you are not willing to do the work that you demand of others.

There is plenty of archeological evidence that indicate that the Jews were enslaved in Ancient Egypt. Many books have been written on this topic, one of them is “Israel in Egypt – Evidence for the Authenticity of the Exodus Tradition” written by James Hoffmeier.

Links or you have nothing.

Additionally a papyrus was found in Egypt in the nineteenth century which describes in detail many of the plagues and the Exodus itself. This papyrus, which currently resides in a Dutch museum, is known as the Ipuwer Papyrus, which was written by an Egyptian who was an eye-witness to these events.

Nevertheless, is there any more compelling evidence than the fact that for more than 3,000 years Jews have sat down by the Seder table and repeated the exact same story to their children? This is a chain of a direct unbroken tradition passed down from fathers who saw the events, to their children who in turn passed it down to their children, who passed it down to their children...

Again links or you have nothing. And no, that is not evidence. For even longer Hindus have passed on their religion. By your standards Hinduism is true. I see that logic is not a tool that you are familiar with.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I have read all of the bible, every word at least 5 times. You are here with a bunch of unsupported speculation wanting me to prove you wrong when you have the burden to provide something in the way of evidence to support your claims. You can try to say it ain't true it ain't so and it do mean a thing if you can not substantiate your claims.

http://www.amazon.com/Walking-Bible...1436299261&sr=8-3&keywords=walk+through+bruce

If I need to provide evidence you need to provide evidence. Also your claim about a bathroom outside of a camp hardly supports Exodus, unless you can show that one bathroom serviced roughly 2 million people. If you read Exodus and understood it you would understand where that number came from. That you offer such poor evidence implies that you either did not read Exodus or did not understand Exodus.

 

[joshua 1 9]

If I need to provide evidence you need to provide evidence. Also your claim about a bathroom outside of a camp hardly supports Exodus, unless you can show that one bathroom serviced roughly 2 million people. If you read Exodus and understood it you would understand where that number came from. That you offer such poor evidence implies that you either did not read Exodus or did not understand Exodus.

So your argument is based on your belief that Moses was not able to provide the Hebrew Children with a toilet?
Really, that is the best you can do?

http://www.biblearchaeology.org/pos...-the-Exodus-Sea-Crossing-Part-II.aspx#Article

http://www.biblewalks.com/Sites/GilgalArgaman.html

http://www.biblewalks.com/Photos47/GilgalArgaman1a.jpg

http://www.arkdiscovery.com/images/Menora inscription on the rock.jpg

 

[justlookinla]

He did no such thing. At best he made a poetic referral to the past. That is far from "confirmation". Jesus never said anything that supported the Noah's Ark or even the Garden of Eden story as fact.

What did Jesus say as a fact?

 

[dad]

Abel NEVER took a single step on our planet.

So what, he flew?

He lived and died on Adam's world which was totally destroyed in the Flood as ll Peter 3:3-7 tell us.

Perhaps you think this verse is wrong?
Eph 3:9 -And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Where did the bones of ancient people, which have been found all over Planet Earth come from?

Probably from ancient people. This is news??

Science has mistakenly classified the sons of God (prehistoric people) as Humans.

People are people. You seem to be confusing people with apes.

They have Falsely believed that the common ancestor of Apes evolved into Humans. This is impossible scientifically, scripturally and historically, but today's scientists have REJECTED God's Truth in Genesis just as some religious people have. Amen?

Did you post as aman before? Anyhow, that is correct, man did not evolve from anything.

 

[dad]

Instructing one to believe the prophets does not mean to believe the obvious mistaken claims of them.

Yes it does. You are mistaken, not them.

I do believe that he was referring to believing them on how to behave,

No. Behaving doesn't save us.

not on how the world was formed or other events that the Bible clearly gets wrong.

The bible tells how the world came to be and will end. The so called science fables that tell of another creation are total rubbish.

The Bible is far from being a science text.

I think it has a lot of deep science in it. More than I can say about so called science!

That was not humor. That should be clear to you. Calling the Bible the "word of God" with all of its errors is an attack on the concept of a god.

Actually is is what Jesus and the others in the New Testament taught. The errors are with you and in your head.

No, even the gospels disagree with each other.

False. You just do not comprehend them.

Any work of man, which the Bible clearly is, will have some flaws to it.

Like your posts and so called science. Scripture is of God.

Trying to pin those flaws on your God seems to be a very blasphemous action by you.

Flaws that do not really exist except in your head have no merit in the real world.

There are many many Christians that have no problem accepting both the Bible and reality.

I take it you mean they accept the fables that have NO basis from so called science as reality and cast out God's word as unreal. We know.