Ten Commandments still valid so says Bible and pro-Sunday Scholars

[bugkiller]

Everyone is free to differ or have whatever opinion they wish. But as we saw with the "Baptist Confession of Faith" and "D.L. Moody" and the "Westminster Confession of Faith" and the CCC and ... (so many others ...) this point about the Ten Commandments still applicable to the saints today - just as in the OT they were binding on all mankind, the moral law of God, written on the heart under the NEW Covenant etc... is so obvious that it is not just the pro-Sabbath pro-seventh day Christians that accept the bible texts pointing out this fact - but even the majority of pro-Sunday scholars!

A point - that so far has proven to be irrefutable.

So then the 7 point list deals with aspects of the topic that come up all over the place on this board.

As we saw them listed on page 1

====================================================

6 of the 7 are actually common ground between Sabbath keeping and Sunday keeping Christians.


1. That the Sabbath Commandment is first given to mankind in Gen 2:1-3
2. That all mankind was obligated by the TEN commandments in the OT and to this very day.
3. That the seventh day as the Sabbath was Saturday the seventh day of the week from Gen 2:1-3 until NT times - including at the cross.
4. That the Ten Commandments are the moral Law of God
5. That the moral law of God is written on the heart under the New Covenant
6. that the Ten Commandments as the moral law of God are in no way opposed to grace and the Gospel.
7. That the Sabbath commandment can rightly be BENT by man-made-tradition to point to week-day-1 after the cross.

I agree with 6 out of 7 as listed above - and yet many who post against God's TEN commandments object to all of the points listed above. And sometimes they will even go on to complain that so many of the points above are in agreement with my position and opposed to the war-against-the-Ten-Commandments position.

in Christ,

Bob

How many times are you going to repost this? We have it memorized by now and have responded to it several times. We still won't agree with you.

bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

I don't mind reminding people that the 7 points have proven to be irrefutable and that we have these examples of both sides of the debate - the pro-sunday scholarship and the pro-Sabbath , agreeing to certain points.

That there are some people who agree with neither in that case - is also noted on this board.

But having the reference posts on the first two pages of this thread - is .... ideal.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

<<<Ten Commandments still valid so says Bible and pro-Sunday Scholars>>>

What do _you_ say, Bob? And WHY?

That will interest the forum more.

Try ...

And invite your Adventist brothers to participate.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Gerhard Ebersöhn

"Love God" is the "greatest Commandment" --- the absolute impossible Commandment --- the only Commandment of God NEVER kept.

Jesus died not because man never kept the Sabbath; He died because man NEVER LOVED GOD WITH HIS WHOLE HEART.
​

Agreed!

bugkiller

Uh oh..........wait for it...wait for it.....

Originally Posted by Gerhard Ebersöhn
You do not <agree>. If you agreed, you'd also agree that if ever a man loved God with his whole heart, he'd also keep the LORD'S Sabbath with his whole heart.

But you with your whole heart wages puny WAR AGAINST "the day The Seventh Day Sabbath OF THE LORD GOD".

I saw that response coming from a mile way

.........................................

.

 

[BobRyan]

Uh oh..........wait for it...wait for it.....


I saw that response coming from a mile way

.........................................

.

How is it that Canada - so anxious to declare this and that part of the Bible offensive to mankind and a crime to quote over the radio -- is so anxious to go down the wrong road on Sunday Laws??

in Christ,

Bob

 

[bugkiller]

The children of God - all those born-again are among the saints.

What is your point??



Just not in real life -- eh??



"Do we then make void the LAW of God by OUR faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the Law of God" Rom 3:31



In 1 Tim 1:9 Paul says that Law condemns law breakers.

Very true. Paul also states the law isn't for the righteous in that verse. Christians are righteous.

In Eph 6:2 Paul applies the LAW to the saints - to the Christians.

Nope! Paul is telling children to obey their parents. Paul isn't speaking to adults in that verse.

True .. and ...

"Do we then make void the LAW of God by OUR faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the Law of God" Rom 3:31

We don't need to make the law void, because God did as He said He would. Rom 10:4 for starters.

bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

"Do we then make void the law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the Law of God" Rom 3:31

.We don't need to make the law void, because God did as He said He would.

"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19

So then where do we find such direct contradictions to the text??

here:

Very true. Paul also states the law isn't for the righteous in that verse. Christians are righteous.Nope! Paul is telling children to obey their parents. Paul isn't speaking to adults in that verse.We don't need to make the law void, because God did as He said He would. Rom 10:4 for starters.

bugkiller

So what did Christ say on the subject of the Law of God - the Commandments of God??

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Note that in 1John 5 - John contrasts "LOVE", to the Commandments of God. He does not say "By this we know that we Love God -- if we Love God".

Rather John points to obedience to the WORD of God "the Commandments of God" as the sign that we truly to LOVE God. Being at war against his Word is not such a great sign of "loving God" as some had perhaps imagined.

1 John 5
"Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him.
2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:1-3

Those who would wrench Romans 10:4 via "extreme inference" to get it to contradict the rest of scripture - are making a mistake.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

10 Commandments are &#8211;
&#8220;Commandments of God&#8221; Neh 10:29
&#8220;Law of God&#8221; Neh 10:29
&#8220;Word of God&#8221; Mark 7:13
&#8220;Commandment of God&#8221; Mark 7:6-13
NT &#8220;Scripture&#8221; James 2:8
NT &#8220;Law&#8221; &#8211; James 2:9-11
NT Commandments Eph 6:2, Rom 13:9, Romans 7:7-10

 

[BobRyan]

Is it any wonder then that D.L. Moody and even the RCC go so far out of their way affirming the TEN Commandments for Christians - just as do the "Baptist Confession of Faith" and the "Westminster Confession of faith"??

Well then what about all the other pro-sunday groups as listed in my signature line? What about the Catholic church for example?

It is interesting that even the RCC confirms many of those 7 points.

[FONT=&quot]Dies Domini is a papal encyclical on the subject of Sunday and how it is regarded by tradition to be a holy day rooted in the 10 commandments as a continuation of the 4th commandment (numbered 3 by Roman Catholics).

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [FONT=&quot]Dies Domini, John Paul II, 5 July 1998 - Apostolic Letter - link[/FONT]

[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]Dies Domini, John Paul II, 5 July 1998 - Apostolic Letter [/FONT]

========================== Dies Domini begin
[FONT=&quot]Dies Domini pt 11 [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"the rest of the Sabbath..discloses something of the nuptial shape of the relationship which God wants to establish with the creature made in his image, by calling that creature to enter a pact of love".[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] Dies Domini pt 13 -[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"the Sabbath ...is therefore rooted in the depths of God's plan. This is why unlike many other laws - it is not within the context of strictly cultic (Jewish) stipulations but within the Decalogue the "ten words" which represent the very pillars of moral life inscribed on the human heart!! In setting this commandment within the context of the basic structure of ethics, Israel and then the church declare that they consider it not just a matter of community religious discipline but a defining and indelible expression of our relationship to God, announced and expounded by biblical revelations.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]Dies Domini pt 11 "if the first page of the book of Genesis presents God's work as an example for man, the same is true of God's rest - on the seventh day God finished his work which he had done therefore God blessed the seventh day and made it holy...it is a gaze which God casts upon all things, but in a special way upon man, the crown
of creation. It is a gaze which already discloses something of the nuptial shape of the relationship God wants to establish with the creature made in his own image, by calling that creature to enter a pact of love."[/FONT]

=============================== Dies Domini ... end quote

The quote I gave from Dies Domini is fully consistent with the examples I gave from the Catholic Catechism - at least that is what we appear to have in the details of those quotes.

No one has an example of Dies Domini or the CCC objecting to the 7 points listed in the OP. No not one.

I offer a perfect example to test the points -- in quotes from the CCC.

I say again that 6 of the 7 points appear here.

Secondary source for the Catechism: This is a link -[FONT=&quot]Catholic Catechism Section Two Ten Comm[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2056 The word "Decalogue" means literally "ten words."11 God revealed these "ten words" to his people on the holy mountain. They were written "with the finger of God,"12 unlike the other commandments written by Moses.13 They are pre-eminently the words of God. They are handed on to us in the books of Exodus 14 and Deuteronomy.15 Beginning with the Old Testament, the sacred books refer to the "ten words,"16 but it is in the New Covenant in Jesus Christ that their full meaning will be revealed.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2072 Since they express man's fundamental duties towards God and towards his neighbor, the Ten Commandments reveal, in their primordial content, grave obligations.They are fundamentally immutable, and they oblige always and everywhere. No one can dispense from them. the Ten Commandments are engraved by God in the human heart.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2063.... the words of the Decalogue remain likewise for us Christians. Far from being abolished, they have received amplification and development from the fact of the coming of the Lord in the flesh.26[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2068 The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christiansand that the justified man is still bound to keep them;28 The Second Vatican Council confirms: "The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments."29
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot](Application in James 2)
2069 The Decalogue forms a coherent whole. Each "word" refers to each of the others and to all of them; they reciprocally condition one another. the two tables shed light on one another; they form an organic unity. To transgress one commandment is to infringe all the others.30 One cannot honor another person without blessing God his Creator. One cannot adore God without loving all men, his creatures. the Decalogue brings man's religious and social life into unity.[/FONT] __________________ __________________

 

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

What is the point in repeating your inappropriate quotations thousands of times over?!

 

[BobRyan]

They are "irrefutable" --

And what is not surprising at all is that what some view as Bible texts and quotes "inconvenient" they will sometimes call "inappropriate" - .

But not all view affirmation of the Ten Commandments in the Bible in such a way --

For example - many will welcome this point - even among the majority of pro-sunday scholarship.

10 Commandments are &#8211;
&#8220;Commandments of God&#8221; Neh 10:29
&#8220;Law of God&#8221; Neh 10:29
&#8220;Word of God&#8221; Mark 7:13
&#8220;Commandment of God&#8221; Mark 7:6-13
NT &#8220;Scripture&#8221; James 2:8
NT &#8220;Law&#8221; &#8211; James 2:9-11
NT Commandments Eph 6:2, Rom 13:9, Romans 7:7-10

 

[listed]

What is the point in repeating your inappropriate quotations thousands of times over?!

You are not the only one who wants to know. He is using it as a hammer. He has not cracked anyone here yet.

 

[listed]

Uh oh..........wait for it...wait for it.....


I saw that response coming from a mile way

.........................................

.

Neat poster

 

[listed]

Very true. Paul also states the law isn't for the righteous in that verse. Christians are righteous.Nope! Paul is telling children to obey their parents. Paul isn't speaking to adults in that verse.We don't need to make the law void, because God did as He said He would. Rom 10:4 for starters.

bugkiller

No one will ever get the full story from him.

 

[listed]

"Do we then make void the law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the Law of God" Rom 3:31



"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19

So then where do we find such direct contradictions to the text??

here:



So what did Christ say on the subject of the Law of God - the Commandments of God??

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Note that in 1John 5 - John contrasts "LOVE", to the Commandments of God. He does not say "By this we know that we Love God -- if we Love God".

Rather John points to obedience to the WORD of God "the Commandments of God" as the sign that we truly to LOVE God. Being at war against his Word is not such a great sign of "loving God" as some had perhaps imagined.

1 John 5
"Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him.
2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:1-3

Those who would wrench Romans 10:4 via "extreme inference" to get it to contradict the rest of scripture - are making a mistake.

in Christ,

Bob

By your high light it looks to me that you are only accusing Christians of sinning because they do not keep the Sabbath. I ask how, when the prophets say there will be a new and totally different covenant which is verified all through the NT?

No you simply will not accept Rom 10:4 as it reads. If you can please show Jesus is not the end of the law for righteousness. You are really saying one can be righteous by keeping part of the law because you do not keep the law as it is written. The Scripture disagrees with you.

Your 1 John 5 reference is not referring to the law or the ten commandments.

 

[listed]

10 Commandments are –
“Commandments of God” Neh 10:29
“Law of God” Neh 10:29
“Word of God” Mark 7:13
“Commandment of God” Mark 7:6-13
NT “Scripture” James 2:8
NT “Law” – James 2:9-11NT Commandments Eph 6:2, Rom 13:9, Romans 7:7-10

No because the NC is based on better promises - not law.

 

[BobRyan]

Paul says in Hebrews 8 that the New Covenant has the LAW of God as known to Jeremiah "written on the heart and mind".

I believe Paul has this point right.

So then -

"Do we then make void the law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the Law of God" Rom 3:31

"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19


Was Christ throwing Moses "under a bus" when in Mark 2:27 He said that "Sabbath was made for mankind -- and not mankind made for the Sabbath"??

Was Isaiah throwing Moses "under a bus" when he said God claims "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to bow down" for all eternity in the New Earth?

And in Is 56 where we are told that gentiles are specifically targeted as blessed for honoring and keeping God's Sabbath -- is God throwing Moses "under a bus" in that case?

No He is not - because Moses never claims "The Sabbath should not be kept by gentiles" or "is not applicable to gentiles" -- a point that even the majority of pro-sunday scholarship accepts.

The "only for Israel" argument does not work in Hebrews 8 or Jer 31:31-33 with the new Covenant even though there we see that the NEW Covenant is made "with Israel and with Judah".

The "only for Israel" argument does not work in Acts 13 even though there we see this regarding the Gospel

Acts 13
23 From this man&#8217;s seed, according to the promise, God raised up for Israel a Savior&#8212;Jesus&#8212;
24 after John had first preached, before His coming, the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.


The "only for Israel" does not work in John 4 even though there we see Christ states clearly 'salvation is of the JEWS"

John 4
22 You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews.

The "only for Israel" argument does not work in Ex 20:1-7 even though there we see that taking God's name in vain is condemned in the commandment -- said to Israel - and yet applicable to ALL mankind.


And....

It does not work in Ex 20:8-11 where those same Commandments to Israel include the Sabbath "made for mankind" Mark 2:27 where "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to bow down" Is 66:23

 

[BobRyan]

As for not throwing Moses under a bus by setting aside one of the TEN Commandments - Christ makes that point in Mark 7.

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

 

[BobRyan]

So much complaining lately about the Ten Commandments and even the Sabbath - on the very points where many even among pro-sunday scholars affirm the Bible facts regarding the Ten Commandments.

It is amazing.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[bugkiller]

So much complaining lately about the Ten Commandments and even the Sabbath - on the very points where many even among pro-sunday scholars affirm the Bible facts regarding the Ten Commandments.

It is amazing.

in Christ,

Bob

Not a single one of them promote all the 10 Cs. Otherwise they couldn't be pro-Sunday.

bugkiller