Ten Commandments still valid so says Bible and pro-Sunday Scholars

[BobRyan]

The story I see you're trying to make, is that: we're required to obey the commandments and the law because they're mentioned in the New Testament as scriptures to obey.

"what matters is keeping the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19

I consider that writing this to the gentiles in Corinth- is writing to gentiles.

So also in Eph 6:2 where the 5th commandment is the "first commandment with a promise"


Again - writing to gentiles.

Truth is, you dont really consider the fact that Paul was chosen by Jesus to teaches all the doctrines to the Gentiles. Your perspective is to find isolated text that appears to say that Christians are commanded to keep the law.

As I said ... the point remains.

If Jesus ever said: Luk 16:16
The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

You have some explaining to do.

That says nothing about abolishing the Law of God.

"do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the Law of God" Rom 3:31

Paul has a great ministry to gentiles and Christ declares He is not abolishing the Law of God in Matt 5.

What is worse for those at war with God's Law - is what Paul says in Acts 21.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

As we can see from the OP -- quite a few examples where NT saints are being referred to quotes from the actual TEN Commandments -

[FONT=&quot]

Matt 19
And someone came to Him and said, “Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?” 17 And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “
You shall not commit murder;
You shall not commit adultery;
You shall not steal;
You shall not bear false witness;
19 Honor your father and mother;
and
You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”


"what matters is Keeping the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19

"do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31

What law? The Law that condemns all mankind as sinners -

Rom 3
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;


That same law - same chapter



"do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31


Rom 7
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.




Rom 13

8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this,
Thou shalt not commit adultery,
Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal,
Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Thou shalt not covet;

and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.


James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” (Lev 19:18) you are doing well.
9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
11 For He who said, [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“Do not commit adultery[/FONT][FONT=&quot],”
also said, [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“Do not commit murder.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty


[/FONT]

 

[Steeno7]

Turns out -- "in real life" over half of these examples of holding up the OT as the "authority" for NT doctrine and practice - is the work of Paul for gentiles.

It's no surprise to any here that the OT is your authority. My authority is Christ Jesus, the One who all of scripture points us to as the One who has all authority.

 

[Cribstyl]

Originally Posted by BobRyan

"what matters is keeping the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19

I consider that writing this to the gentiles in Corinth- is writing to gentiles.
​

It's no secret that you appear to be playing a word search game. Anyone who reads 1Cor 7 can see that the commandments given by Paul to these Corinthians was about sexual relationships between men and women. Paul even distinguished between his personal advise and God's commandment on these issues.

1Co 7:1
¶Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.
1Co 7:2
Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
1Co 7:3
Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.

The whole chapter provides the evidence on which commandments that Paul is saying to keep. Your use of this context is to promote a word search about the ten commandments. I dont expect you to change your tactics now.

So also in Eph 6:2 where the 5th commandment is the "first commandment with a promise"

More shallow word search games.
Anyone who reads the context from Eph5:1 to the end of this Epistle to the Ephesians can know that Paul is not commanding believer to keep the ten commandments. We can read many commandment

Again - writing to gentiles.



As I said ... the point remains.



That says nothing about abolishing the Law of God.

"do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the Law of God" Rom 3:31

Paul has a great ministry to gentiles and Christ declares He is not abolishing the Law of God in Matt 5.

What is worse for those at war with God's Law - is what Paul says in Acts 21.

in Christ,

Bob

All disputable references, what a shame.

 

[BobRyan]

It's no surprise to any here that the OT is your authority. My authority is Christ Jesus,

So then the teaching of Jesus matters?

I welcome that thought -- hold on to it.

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye. ________

Those are the Word of Jesus and how HE upheld scripture as contrasted to the man-made-traditions.

the One who all of scripture points us to as the One who has all authority.

Indeed.

That was my point all along.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

"what matters is keeping the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19

I consider that writing this to the gentiles in Corinth- is writing to gentiles.

So also in Eph 6:2 where the 5th commandment is the "first commandment with a promise"


Again - writing to gentiles.



As I said ... the point remains.



That says nothing about abolishing the Law of God.

"do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the Law of God" Rom 3:31

Paul has a great ministry to gentiles and Christ declares He is not abolishing the Law of God in Matt 5.

What is worse for those at war with God's Law - is what Paul says in Acts 21.

It's no secret that you appear to be playing a word search game. Anyone who reads 1Cor 7 can see that the commandments given by Paul to these Corinthians was about sexual relationships between men and women. Paul even distinguished between his personal advise and God's commandment on these issues.

1Co 7:1
¶Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.
1Co 7:2
Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
1Co 7:3
Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.

The whole chapter provides the evidence on which commandments that Paul is saying to keep. Your use of this context is to promote a word search about the ten commandments. I dont expect you to change your tactics now.

More shallow word search games.
Anyone who reads the context from Eph5:1 to the end of this Epistle to the Ephesians can know that Paul is not commanding believer to keep the ten commandments. We can read many commandment

All disputable references, what a shame.

In 1Cor 7:19 Paul contrasts the "Commandments of God" -- the moral law -- vs the ceremonial law in the case of "circumcision".

You quote "everything BUT" 1Cor 7:19 in your efforts to explain it.

Instructive.


Here is the section being avoided by those trying to get away from 1Cor 7:19

17 Only, as the Lord has assigned to each one, as God has called each, in this manner let him walk. And so I direct in all the churches. 18 Was any man called when he was already circumcised? He is not to become uncircumcised. Has anyone been called in uncircumcision? He is not to be circumcised. 19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God. 20 Each man must remain in that condition in which he was called.


Yet 1 Cor 7:19 IS being promoted by such documents as the 'Westminster Confession of Faith" and the "Baptist Confession of faith" because it points to the difference/the-contrast between moral and ceremonial.




in Christ,

Bob

 

[bugkiller]

As we can see from the OP -- quite a few examples where NT saints are being referred to quotes from the actual TEN Commandments -

Bob the rich young man wasn't a believer in any sense of the word. Its clear he was doing nothing more than trying to trip Jesus up. furthermore he left sad instead of rejoicing about eternal life.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

I am not arguing against Paul as an inspired Bible writer - I am arguing that the NT saints still held the OT text to be binding on NT saints - authoritative scripture.

I could have proven the same point with the phrase "It is written" and "the Holy Spirit says" for example.

All references in the NT - to the continued authority of the OT text.

And so it is no wonder that even the majority of your own pro-sunday scholarship admits to the continued binding authority of God's TEN Commandments on the saints today.

in Christ,

Bob

Then why don't you believe all he says? Personally I think you're involved in a leg pulling contest.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Turns out -- "in real life" over half of these examples of holding up the OT as the "authority" for NT doctrine and practice - is the work of Paul for gentiles.


===================================

[FONT=&quot]Acts 17:11[FONT=&quot]
Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness[/FONT][FONT=&quot], examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so[/FONT][FONT=&quot].

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Acts 18:24[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
Now a Jew named Apollos, an Alexandrian by birth, an eloquent man, came to Ephesus; and he [/FONT][FONT=&quot]was mighty in the Scriptures[/FONT][FONT=&quot].

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Acts 18:28[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
for he powerfully refuted the Jews in public, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]demonstrating by the Scriptures that Jesus was the Christ.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Romans 1:2[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
which He promised beforehand through [/FONT][FONT=&quot]His prophets in the holy Scriptures,

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Romans 4:3[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
For [/FONT][FONT=&quot]what does the Scripture say[/FONT][FONT=&quot]? " ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS."

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Romans 9:17[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]For the Scripture says[/FONT][FONT=&quot] to Pharaoh, " FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH."

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Romans 10:11[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]For the Scripture says[/FONT][FONT=&quot], " WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Romans 11:2[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew Or do you not know [/FONT][FONT=&quot]what the Scripture says[/FONT][FONT=&quot] in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel?

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Romans 15:4[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
For whatever was written in earlier times was written for our instruction, so that through perseverance [/FONT][FONT=&quot]and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Romans 16:26[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, has been made known to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1 Corinthians 15:3[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins [/FONT][FONT=&quot]according to the Scriptures[/FONT][FONT=&quot],

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1 Corinthians 15:4[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day [/FONT][FONT=&quot]according to the Scriptures[/FONT][FONT=&quot],

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Galatians 3:8[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles[/FONT][FONT=&quot] by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, " ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU."

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Galatians 3:22[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
But [/FONT][FONT=&quot]the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin[/FONT][FONT=&quot], so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Galatians 4:30[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
But [/FONT][FONT=&quot]what does the Scripture say[/FONT][FONT=&quot]?" CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON,FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE AN HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREE WOMAN."

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1 Timothy 4:13[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
Until I come, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]give attention to the public reading of Scripture[/FONT][FONT=&quot], to exhortation and teaching.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1 Timothy 5:18[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]For the Scripture says[/FONT][FONT=&quot], " YOU SHALL NOT MUZZLE THE OX WHILE HE IS THRESHING," and " The laborer is worthy of his wages."

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2 Timothy 3:16[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]All Scripture is inspired by God[/FONT][FONT=&quot] and profitable [/FONT][FONT=&quot]for teaching[/FONT][FONT=&quot], for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]James 2:8[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, " YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF," you are doing well.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]James 2:23[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
and [/FONT][FONT=&quot]the Scripture was fulfilled which says[/FONT][FONT=&quot], " AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS," and he was called the friend of God.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]James 4:5[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
Or [/FONT][FONT=&quot]do you think that the Scripture speaks to no purpose[/FONT][FONT=&quot]: " He jealously desires the Spirit which He has made to dwell in us"?

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1 Peter 2:6[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
For [/FONT][FONT=&quot]this is contained in Scripture[/FONT][FONT=&quot]:" BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A CHOICE STONE, A PRECIOUS CORNER stone,AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2 Peter 1:20[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
But know this first of all, that [/FONT][FONT=&quot]no prophecy of Scripture[/FONT][FONT=&quot] is a matter of one's own interpretation,
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2 Peter 3:16[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also [/FONT][FONT=&quot]the rest of the Scriptures[/FONT][FONT=&quot], to their own destruction. [/FONT][/FONT]

If I read you right there isn't any need for us to read the Bible. (Well the parts you don't want us to read anyway.)

bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

If I read you right there isn't any need for us to read the Bible. (Well the parts you don't want us to read anyway.)

bugkiller

How odd that seeing examples of the OT being affirmed by NT saints as still authoritative for the NT saints - is bent to mean "no need to read the Bible".

I find your logic "illusive" just then.

More words please.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

As we can see from the OP -- quite a few examples where NT saints are being referred to quotes from the actual TEN Commandments -

Originally Posted by BobRyan [FONT=&quot]

Matt 19
And someone came to Him and said, “Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?” 17 And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “
You shall not commit murder;
You shall not commit adultery;
You shall not steal;
You shall not bear false witness;
19 Honor your father and mother;
and
You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”


"what matters is Keeping the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19

"do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31

What law? The Law that condemns all mankind as sinners -

Rom 3
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;


That same law - same chapter



"do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31


Rom 7
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.




Rom 13

8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this,
Thou shalt not commit adultery,
Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal,
Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Thou shalt not covet;

and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.


James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” (Lev 19:18) you are doing well.
9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
11 For He who said, [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“Do not commit adultery[/FONT][FONT=&quot],”
also said, [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“Do not commit murder.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty
[/FONT]

Matthew (like all other Gospel writers) writes TO the church many years AFTER Christ goes to heaven.

19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.

Bob the rich young man wasn't a believer in any sense of the word. Its clear he was doing nothing more than trying to trip Jesus up. furthermore he left sad instead of rejoicing about eternal life.

bugkiller

1. My post does not reduce down to 'just the rich young ruler'
2. Matthew is recording this for the saints.
3. Christ's words cannot bei ignored.
4. the same list if found for the saints in Rom 13


The list of examples all written by NT writers after the cross - for the instruction of church - includes quotes from the TEN commandments - that some on this board insist 'should not exist' if in fact we do not use the TEN Commandments as an authoritative source in the NT.

Obviously.

Hence the case that even the majority of pro-sunday scholars know not to make the mistake of throwing God's TEN Commandments under a bus as if that will hold up to the sola-scriptura test.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

edit not working for CF in many cases - so can't edit spelling in that prior post.

 

[Steeno7]

So then the teaching of Jesus matters?

I welcome that thought -- hold on to it.

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye. ________

Those are the Word of Jesus and how HE upheld scripture as contrasted to the man-made-traditions.



Indeed.

That was my point all along.

in Christ,

Bob

If your point "all along" has been that Jesus has all authority and is our authority then you wouldn't have made your appeal to "what" matters instead of "Who" matters.


"You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to Me to have life." John 5:39-41

 

[bugkiller]

Matthew (like all other Gospel writers) writes TO the church many years AFTER Christ goes to heaven.

19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.





1. My post does not reduce down to 'just the rich young ruler'

Did you not imply he was a saint by the way your post read? You said saints and the first quote is about him. Your whole post flopped right there.

2. Matthew is recording this for the saints.

Oh

3. Christ's words cannot bei ignored.

Do you think I'm ignoring the words of Jesus?

4. the same list if found for the saints in Rom 13

Yeah I guess so if you take what Paul is saying out of context. There isn't an indication the Christians is bound to the law.

The list of examples all written by NT writers after the cross - for the instruction of church - includes quotes from the TEN commandments - that some on this board insist 'should not exist' if in fact we do not use the TEN Commandments as an authoritative source in the NT.

The mere quoting of something doesn't incur obligation.

Paul says very plainly the law isn't for the Christian in I Tim 1:9. Paul very clearly calls the 10 Cs the law in Romans 7.

Obviously.

Hence the case that even the majority of pro-sunday scholars know not to make the mistake of throwing God's TEN Commandments under a bus as if that will hold up to the sola-scriptura test.

in Christ,

Bob

What are those scholars really saying? Do they do as you say they preach and observe the law? Nope! So what are they really saying?

bugkiller

 

[yesyoushould]

(Thank you so much God for the ten commandments.)

I'm so glad the ten commandments are given to us. A blessing indeed.

 

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted by BobRyan [FONT=&quot]

Matt 19
And someone came to Him and said, “Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?” 17 And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “
You shall not commit murder;
You shall not commit adultery;
You shall not steal;
You shall not bear false witness;
19 Honor your father and mother;
and
You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”


"what matters is Keeping the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19

"do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31

What law? The Law that condemns all mankind as sinners -

Rom 3
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;


That same law - same chapter



"do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31


Rom 7
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.




Rom 13

8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this,
Thou shalt not commit adultery,
Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal,
Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Thou shalt not covet;

and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.


James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” (Lev 19:18) you are doing well.
9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
11 For He who said, [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“Do not commit adultery[/FONT][FONT=&quot],”
also said, [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“Do not commit murder.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty[/FONT]

===========================================

These two scriptures may have caught your attention

[FONT=&quot]"what matters is Keeping the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19

"do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31[/FONT]

If your point "all along" has been that Jesus has all authority and is our authority then you wouldn't have made your appeal to "what" matters instead of "Who" matters.

I never claim that Jesus is arguing against Paul in 1Cor 7:19

Rather I show Jesus strongly affirming Paul's point in Mark 7:6-13


"You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to Me to have life." John 5:39-41

Mark 7 is an example in real life of Christ applying the John 5 principle.

And Paul agrees in 1Cor 7:19

in Christ,

Bob

 

[bugkiller]

If your point "all along" has been that Jesus has all authority and is our authority then you wouldn't have made your appeal to "what" matters instead of "Who" matters.


"You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to Me to have life." John 5:39-41

QFT!!

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Originally Posted by BobRyan [FONT=&quot]

Matt 19
And someone came to Him and said, “Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?” 17 And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “
You shall not commit murder;
You shall not commit adultery;
You shall not steal;
You shall not bear false witness;
19 Honor your father and mother;
and
You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”


"what matters is Keeping the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19

"do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31

What law? The Law that condemns all mankind as sinners -

Rom 3
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;


That same law - same chapter



"do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31


Rom 7
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.




Rom 13

8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this,
Thou shalt not commit adultery,
Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal,
Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Thou shalt not covet;

and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.


James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” (Lev 19:18) you are doing well.
9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
11 For He who said, [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“Do not commit adultery[/FONT][FONT=&quot],”
also said, [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“Do not commit murder.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty[/FONT]

===========================================

These two scriptures may have caught your attention

[FONT=&quot]"what matters is Keeping the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19

"do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31[/FONT]



I never claim that Jesus is arguing against Paul in 1Cor 7:19

Rather I show Jesus strongly affirming Paul's point in Mark 7:6-13


"You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to Me to have life." John 5:39-41

Mark 7 is an example in real life of Christ applying the John 5 principle.

And Paul agrees in 1Cor 7:19

in Christ,

Bob

Steeno7 didn't say you were. Read what he said.

bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

Matthew (like all other Gospel writers) writes TO the church many years AFTER Christ goes to heaven.

19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.


1. My post does not reduce down to 'just the rich young ruler'
2. Matthew is recording this for the saints.
3. Christ's words cannot bei ignored.
4. the same list if found for the saints in Rom 13


The list of examples all written by NT writers after the cross - for the instruction of church - includes quotes from the TEN commandments - that some on this board insist 'should not exist' if in fact we do not use the TEN Commandments as an authoritative source in the NT.

Obviously.

Hence the case that even the majority of pro-sunday scholars know not to make the mistake of throwing God's TEN Commandments under a bus as if that will hold up to the sola-scriptura test.

Did you not imply he was a saint by the way your post read? You said saints and the first quote is about him.

The children of God - all those born-again are among the saints.

What is your point??

Your whole post flopped right there.

Just not in real life -- eh??

Oh Do you think I'm ignoring the words of Jesus?Yeah I guess so if you take what Paul is saying out of context. There isn't an indication the Christians is bound to the law.

"Do we then make void the LAW of God by OUR faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the Law of God" Rom 3:31

The mere quoting of something doesn't incur obligation.

Paul says very plainly the law isn't for the Christian in I Tim 1:9.

In 1 Tim 1:9 Paul says that Law condemns law breakers.

In Eph 6:2 Paul applies the LAW to the saints - to the Christians.

Paul very clearly calls the 10 Cs the law in Romans 7.

True .. and ...

"Do we then make void the LAW of God by OUR faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the Law of God" Rom 3:31

What are those scholars really saying? Do they do as you say they preach and observe the law? Nope! So what are they really saying?

bugkiller

see the next post

 

[BobRyan]

What are those scholars really saying? Do they do as you say they preach and observe the law? Nope! So what are they really saying?

bugkiller

Here is one example

So then what would be an example of such pro-Sunday scholarship that pertains to the 7 point summary list just posted?

Here we have section 19 of the Westminster - and of course you already have a few posts of mine quoting the "Baptist Confession of Faith"


[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Westminster Confession of Faith Section 19 - link[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

"Westminster Confession of Faith"

[FONT=&quot]Chapter XIX[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Of the Law of God[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]I. God gave to Adam a law, as a covenant of works, by which He bound him and all his posterity, to personal, entire, exact, and perpetual obedience, promised life upon the fulfilling, and threatened death upon the breach of it, and endued him with power and ability to keep it.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][1][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
II. This law, after his fall, continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness; and, as such, was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai, in ten commandments, and written in two tables:[/FONT][FONT=&quot][2][/FONT][FONT=&quot] the first four commandments containing our duty towards God; and the other six, our duty to man.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][3][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
III. Besides this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel, as a church under age, ceremonial laws, containing several typical ordinances, partly of worship, prefiguring Christ, His graces, actions, sufferings, and benefits;[/FONT][FONT=&quot][4][/FONT][FONT=&quot] and partly, holding forth divers instructions of moral duties.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][5][/FONT][FONT=&quot] All which ceremonial laws are now abrogated, under the New Testament.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][6][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
IV. To them also, as a body politic, He gave sundry judicial laws, which expired together with the State of that people; not obliging under any now, further than the general equity thereof may require.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][7][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
V. The moral law does forever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof;[/FONT][FONT=&quot][8][/FONT][FONT=&quot] and that, not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator, who gave it.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][9][/FONT][FONT=&quot] Neither does Christ, in the Gospel, any way dissolve, but much strengthen this obligation.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][10][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
VI. Although true believers be not under the law, as a covenant of works, to be thereby justified, or condemned;[/FONT][FONT=&quot][11][/FONT][FONT=&quot] yet is it of great use to them, as well as to others; in that, as a rule of life informing them of the will of God, and their duty, it directs and binds them to walk accordingly;[/FONT][FONT=&quot][12][/FONT][FONT=&quot] discovering also the sinful pollutions of their nature, hearts and lives;[/FONT][FONT=&quot][13][/FONT][FONT=&quot] so as, examining themselves thereby, they may come to further conviction of, humiliation for, and hatred against sin,[/FONT][FONT=&quot][14][/FONT][FONT=&quot] together with a clearer sight of the need they have of Christ, and the perfection of His obedience.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][15][/FONT][FONT=&quot] It is likewise of use to the regenerate, to restrain their corruptions, in that it forbids sin:[/FONT][FONT=&quot][16][/FONT][FONT=&quot] and the threatenings of it serve to show what even their sins deserve; and what afflictions, in this life, they may expect for them, although freed from the curse thereof threatened in the law.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][17][/FONT][FONT=&quot] The promises of it, in like manner, show them God's approbation of obedience,and what blessings they may expect upon the performance thereof:[/FONT][FONT=&quot][18][/FONT][FONT=&quot] although not as due to them by the law as a covenant of works.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][19][/FONT][FONT=&quot] So as, a man's doing good, and refraining from evil, because the law encourages to the one and deters from the other, is no evidence of his being under the law: and not under grace.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][20][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
VII. Neither are the forementioned uses of the law contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but do sweetly comply with it;[/FONT][FONT=&quot][21][/FONT][FONT=&quot] the Spirit of Christ subduing and enabling the will of man to do that freely, and cheerfully, which the will of God, revealed in the law, requires to be done.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][22][/FONT]


​

Section 21 of the Westminster and Section 22 of the Baptist both address point 7 "the change" the edit of the Sabbath commandment from the 7th day starting from creation and all through the OT and NT Gospel until the cross where it is "changed" in their mind -- to point to week-day-1.