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What exactly is the law?

Frogster

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So what does this mean-that the ten commandments were perfect and yet incapable of making humans perfect?

then if it were true..they could make perfect....then....


2;21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness[c] were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.

why do u think the stones were called a ministry of death and condemnation in 2 cor 3;7, and 3;9?
 
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Frogster

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OK, so then, as the OP asks, What, exactly, is the law? Does it reflect the will of God or is it merely a set of arbitrary rules none of which were ever intended to be obeyed by man?

what is it?

rom 5;20 says it was added to increase the sin, 1 cor 15;56 says it's the power of sin, so you may want to refute those texts, clear facts.
 
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fhansen

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what is it?

rom 5;20 says it was added to increase the sin, 1 cor 15;56 says it's the power of sin, so you may want to refute those texts, clear facts.
That doesn't tell me what it is-it tells me what it does.
 
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fhansen

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then if it were true..they could make perfect....then....


2;21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness[c] were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.

why do u think the sotnes were called a ministry of death and condemnation in 2 cor 3;7, and 3;9?

It can be perfect but yet incapable of making perfect. Speeding laws can't make anyone obey them-or become perfect drivers IOW.
 
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fhansen

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but my text is correct.:)

There's nothing particularly profound about the texts. God wanted us to identify sin, and prove our powerless over it by our failure to live up to the law. Before the law we're still culpable; after the law we're more culpable-but sin existed before the law. That the "law is the power of sin" simply means that speed limits are the power of speeding. Do we blame speeding laws for making speeding a "sin".
 
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Habakk

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toLiJC

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Please tell where you get Jesus came to renew anything from.

bugkiller


here is one example:

Matthew 3:12 "Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."

Blessings
 
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toLiJC

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The Sabbath Word became flesh.

It is quite pointless to try to unmake The Word made flesh and turn Him back to letter on stone.

s


we do not unmake the Living Word, nor turn It about, but we just testify It which is not a crime

Blessings
 
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squint

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we do not unmake the Living Word, nor turn It about, but we just testify It which is not a crime

You spin it backwards and make the Sabbath what it was rather than HIM.

Jesus is no longer written Word on stone or pages.

The Word became flesh.

IS this a difficult concept for you?

s
 
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toLiJC

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You spin it backwards and make the Sabbath what it was rather than HIM.

Jesus is no longer written Word on stone or pages.

The Word became flesh.

IS this a difficult concept for you?

s


we do not deny that Jesus is the Lord Himself - the primary source of the Word preceding the angels and the humans and after God the Father, moreover He came not just in the "spirit", but also in the "flesh", which shows that exactly He is the Lord after He has all power

1 John 4:2 "Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:"

we do not (try to) replace the true God and Jesus with whatever it may be, but it is quite visible how Jesus has shown what the keeping of "sabbath" actually is, and of His deeds can be seen that it is exactly the show of perfect love towards all unsaved/unprovided people, because He saved/provided them not only in sabbath, but also in all days of the week working so without a day off

Matthew 12:1-8 "At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn and to eat. But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day. But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him; How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests? Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple. But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless. For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.",

Mark 2:23-28 "And it came to pass, that he went through the corn fields on the sabbath day; and his disciples began, as they went, to pluck the ears of corn. And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful? And he said unto them, Have ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungred, he, and they that were with him? How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the shewbread, which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him? And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.",

Matthew 12:9-13 "And when he was departed thence, he went into their synagogue: And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him. And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out? How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days. Then saith he to the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it forth; and it was restored whole, like as the other.",

Mark 3:1-5 "And he entered again into the synagogue; and there was a man there which had a withered hand. And they watched him, whether he would heal him on the sabbath day; that they might accuse him. And he saith unto the man which had the withered hand, Stand forth. And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace. And when he had looked round about on them with anger, being grieved for the hardness of their hearts, he saith unto the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it out: and his hand was restored whole as the other.",

Luke 6:6-10 "And it came to pass also on another sabbath, that he entered into the synagogue and taught: and there was a man whose right hand was withered. And the scribes and Pharisees watched him, whether he would heal on the sabbath day; that they might find an accusation against him. But he knew their thoughts, and said to the man which had the withered hand, Rise up, and stand forth in the midst. And he arose and stood forth. Then said Jesus unto them, I will ask you one thing; Is it lawful on the sabbath days to do good, or to do evil? to save life, or to destroy it? And looking round about upon them all, he said unto the man, Stretch forth thy hand. And he did so: and his hand was restored whole as the other.",

Luke 13:10-17 "And he was teaching in one of the synagogues on the sabbath. And, behold, there was a woman which had a spirit of infirmity eighteen years, and was bowed together, and could in no wise lift up herself. And when Jesus saw her, he called her to him, and said unto her, Woman, thou art loosed from thine infirmity. And he laid his hands on her: and immediately she was made straight, and glorified God. And the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because that Jesus had healed on the sabbath day, and said unto the people, There are six days in which men ought to work: in them therefore come and be healed, and not on the sabbath day. The Lord then answered him, and said, Thou hypocrite, doth not each one of you on the sabbath loose his ox or his ass from the stall, and lead him away to watering? And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day? And when he had said these things, all his adversaries were ashamed: and all the people rejoiced for all the glorious things that were done by him.",

Luke 14:1-6 "And it came to pass, as he went into the house of one of the chief Pharisees to eat bread on the sabbath day, that they watched him. And, behold, there was a certain man before him which had the dropsy. And Jesus answering spake unto the lawyers and Pharisees, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath day? And they held their peace. And he took him, and healed him, and let him go; And answered them, saying, Which of you shall have an ass or an ox fallen into a pit, and will not straightway pull him out on the sabbath day? And they could not answer him again to these things.",

John 5:5-23 "And a certain man was there, which had an infirmity thirty and eight years. When Jesus saw him lie, and knew that he had been now a long time in that case, he saith unto him, Wilt thou be made whole? The impotent man answered him, Sir, I have no man, when the water is troubled, to put me into the pool: but while I am coming, another steppeth down before me. Jesus saith unto him, Rise, take up thy bed, and walk. And immediately the man was made whole, and took up his bed, and walked: and on the same day was the sabbath. The Jews therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the sabbath day: it is not lawful for thee to carry thy bed. He answered them, He that made me whole, the same said unto me, Take up thy bed, and walk. Then asked they him, What man is that which said unto thee, Take up thy bed, and walk? And he that was healed wist not who it was: for Jesus had conveyed himself away, a multitude being in that place. Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee. The man departed, and told the Jews that it was Jesus, which had made him whole. And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day. But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.",

John 7:21-24 "Jesus answered and said unto them, I have done one work, and ye all marvel. Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers; ) and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man. If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day? Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.",

John 9:1-16 "And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him. I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work. As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world. When he had thus spoken, he spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and he anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay, And said unto him, Go, wash in the pool of Siloam, (which is by interpretation, Sent.) He went his way therefore, and washed, and came seeing..... They brought to the Pharisees him that aforetime was blind. And it was the sabbath day when Jesus made the clay, and opened his eyes. Then again the Pharisees also asked him how he had received his sight. He said unto them, He put clay upon mine eyes, and I washed, and do see. Therefore said some of the Pharisees, This man is not of God, because he keepeth not the sabbath day. Others said, How can a man that is a sinner do such miracles? And there was a division among them."

because what if there are many observances, but without there be propitiation for the sinful, salvation for the unsaved, healing for the unhealed, resurrection for the dead, etc. - what's the favor?!

Blessings
 
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squint

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we do not deny that Jesus is the Lord Himself -

When legalists try to take the Word of God backwards after The Word became FLESH there is bound to be trouble in such efforts.

we do not (try to) replace the true God and Jesus with whatever it may be, but it is quite visible how Jesus has shown what the keeping of "sabbath" actually is, and of His deeds can be seen that it is exactly the show of perfect love towards all unsaved/unprovided people, because He saved/provided them not only in sabbath, but also in all days of the week working so without a day off

Quite beside the point. You didn't happen to see The Word of the Old Testament became the NEW TESTAMENT of Word in flesh.

Nothing more than that.

You just missed the changeover and are still looking backwards. Citing numerous scriptures is not required either unless you actually have specifics to address therein that line up with your statements.

I disagree with zero scriptures, old or new.

because what if there are many observances,

There is no 'what if.' The Word of God became FLESH.

Every Word of Him.


but without there be propitiation for the sinful, salvation for the unsaved, healing for the unhealed, resurrection for the dead, etc. - what's the favor?!
Blessings

Legalists in general have a very difficult time remedying the fact.

Gods Word of the OLD TESTAMENT became GOD HIMSELF IN FLESH in the NEW TESTAMENT.

But don't feel bad. The Jews didn't get it either.

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

s
 
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toLiJC

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When legalists try to take the Word of God backwards after The Word became FLESH there is bound to be trouble in such efforts.

Quite beside the point. You didn't happen to see The Word of the Old Testament became the NEW TESTAMENT of Word in flesh.

Nothing more than that.

You just missed the changeover and are still looking backwards. Citing numerous scriptures is not required either unless you actually have specifics to address therein that line up with your statements.

I disagree with zero scriptures, old or new.

There is no 'what if.' The Word of God became FLESH.

Every Word of Him.


Legalists in general have a very difficult time remedying the fact.

Gods Word of the OLD TESTAMENT became GOD HIMSELF IN FLESH in the NEW TESTAMENT.

But don't feel bad. The Jews didn't get it either.

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

s


and what of it if some believers have everything except enough love towards the other people being not able thus to provide those of them who need help?!

James 1:25-27 "But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty(i.e. but whosoever becomes acquainted with the Holy Law of (the) faith), and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed. If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue(i.e. and is not careful in its faith (so as) not to do spiritual/religious iniquity), but deceiveth his own heart(i.e. but deceives its own spirit therein), this man's religion is vain. Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows(i.e. to take care of (the weal(-th) of) the infidel people and the weak believers in the true God and Jesus) in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world(i.e. unspotted with the works of human(666) religion)."

Blessings
 
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squint

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and what of it if some believers have everything except enough love towards the other people being not able thus to provide those of them who need help?!

Which has what to do with THE WORD, the LAW of God becoming flesh???

???
 
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toLiJC

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Which has what to do with THE WORD, the LAW of God becoming flesh???

???


it is enough even the fact that the Word says: "love the others so well/much as you would love yourself"(Galatians 5:14)

Matthew 5:43-48 "Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun(i.e. His benediction/grace) to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain(i.e. purification) on the just(i.e. on the clerics/believers) and on the unjust(i.e. and on the infidel people). For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans(i.e. the unrighteous people) the same? And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans(i.e. the unrighteous people) so? Be ye therefore perfect(i.e. perfectly loving/good), even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."

Blessings
 
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