Carboniferous coal measures contain no flowering plants or grasses

[Naraoia]

Well, that matters not at all, since the fish migrated from the sea of Eden. The amphibians were well suited to go over water and land, or, we might say, an inhospitable planet. Birds arrived on the scene in due time, and good old mammals were not far behind.

Dad, did you know that birds (especially birds) and mammals are far better at migrating than amphibians?

 

[Naraoia]

well you have your pyramids, which have pictures of boats in them. This proves they are contemporary with the flood.

The images in the pyramids also show people of varying sizes floating around each other and in an array of positions that would be impossible to be in today. This proves that the laws of physics were different and that giants walked amongst us.

Finally, hieroglyphics are clearly the attempts of people to communicate without a common language... proof of the tower of babel

 

[Parmenio]

To those who are about to argue with dad, I salute you.

dad believes in a schism between Biblical times and present times. This schism drastically changed all the laws of the universe, and thus negates any reasoning into the past of more than 1500 years ago. So yeah, good luck.

 

[TheBear]

If you want to add something meaningful, perhaps you could enlighten me to why no flowering plants are found in the Carboniferous coal measures.

And his answer was ~ I don't know, and I don't care about carboniferous coal measures. Yet, he is all over this thread.*

*Makes you wonder if he sees all discussions as merely an opportunity to spam the thread with random Bible verses.






You bring up another nail in the coffin for young earth creationism, ChordatesLegacy. That's why they won't touch this thread with a 10-foot pole. The rest has been nothing more than ad-hocs and fantasy....IOW - mind games.

 

[dad]

The question you are really asking is, how swift is your God's justice, once he decides that the punishment is just? Is it swift, assertive and final, or does he just mete out justice when he gets around to it? You have your answer to that (Noahic Flood, S&G, Zepaniah, 2Kings)...

Well, look at Israel, and the US today. They seem to have lasted more than an hour since they became basically warring pagans.

Your 'angle' likewise suggests that God cursed Adam and Eve with the Fall, then twiddled his thumbs for a couple of years before putting them out? Think about it, yourself.

Well, no. My point was raising the possibility they already had kids at the fall. Do we know that? If so, then fine. You have not shown that. If they did have kids, like us, also his kids, they also were affected by the sin, no??
See, we now have Jesus, as our new 'Adam'. We are in Him now, and so, we ain't gonna fall no more.

 

[dad]

Dad, did you know that birds (especially birds) and mammals are far better at migrating than amphibians?

Migrating depended on a lot of things, not just speed. For example, if there was a big T rex skulking around, or even little dinos, would you, as a bird, nest there? I think a frog might have a better chance to sneak around.

 

[dad]

Then by all means provide evidence for this.

Are you suggesting that more elements are not available in the interior of the earth, than just the surface???

Should I explain nuclear reactions to him? Or is it an exercise in futility?

Yes, do so, not present reactions, of course, we all know about them. Different past reactions!

By finding human remains that have lived for thousands of years with different chemical structures. Or by finding people who have lived that long with different chemical structures. We haven't found ANY.

Well, how many have you found from pre flood, precisely?? And how would you know??? They could have been carried several miles below the surface for all we know. The dates you have for the bones you have, are meaningless, if the past was not the same. So how do you know they are pre flood???

Electrical and chemical reactions do NOT change the elements present. Taking hydrogen and oxygen produces water, but water is still composed of hydrogen and oxygen as an example. As for change from element to element that is nuclear decay, and you have said that it didn't happen when humans were created.

In a different universe, changes still happen. Not generally changes that work toward decay. The key word is change, there. Not decay.

Why should I believe that it ever happened. People have been revived from death here by doctors. There is no breathing life into them, just shocking their heart with electricity.

How many doctors are the Almighty?? Think about it.

And I notice that AGAIN, you have not provided a shred of evidence for your claims. This forum is for scientific debate (see this post) and for scientific debates we need sources so that we know you're not pulling it our of a certain sphincter

Oh, sweet, that is very very fine with me. Let us start with you showing us all the science you have for Eden and New Jerusalem, and spirits!!! Otherwise, friend, you best just keep the debate relevant to this day and age. That is how the cookie crumbles.

 

[dad]

What was this change?

The change involved some sort of separation of the spiritual from the physical. All we know now is the physical. It was not a change IN the physical. We are the change, and what was left in this neck of the woods.

 

[dad]

To those who are about to argue with dad, I salute you.

dad believes in a schism between Biblical times and present times. This schism drastically changed all the laws of the universe, and thus negates any reasoning into the past of more than 1500 years ago. So yeah, good luck.

Thanks Par. I like a man who knows he's beat.

 

[dad]

well you have your pyramids, which have pictures of boats in them. This proves they are contemporary with the flood.

The images in the pyramids also show people of varying sizes floating around each other and in an array of positions that would be impossible to be in today. This proves that the laws of physics were different and that giants walked amongst us.

Finally, hieroglyphics are clearly the attempts of people to communicate without a common language... proof of the tower of babel

Well, you could have something there.

 

[dad]

... Huh?

I think it is good that the enemy of my position is divided. Is that wrong??

 

[dad]

Any, but they can't walk, fly and blow at indefinite speeds. So if migration starts from one point, we should see at least some concentric (if not exactly circular, because the earth isn't a homogeneous environment) pattern of gradual spreading.

Well, as I look at the fossil record, do we not see a record of Eden's creatures arriving on the scene?? Now, we can add into the mix, lifespans. Man, for example lived near 1000 years. So he could walk right over many fossilized layers in that time.

 

[dad]

Never knew there was a sea of Eden. It must have been a mighty big garden

Yes, there was. That is where the whales, and fish were made.

 

[dad]

The Fish Within Us

Here's a good article for anyone who wants evidence and not creationist hand waving

Link

Great, thanks. Neat. See, the migration from Eden could adapt to the planet on the way. Just as predicted. Amen.

 

[Vene]

Are you suggesting that more elements are not available in the interior of the earth, than just the surface???

No, I'm suggesting that they still don't fit the composition of elements in the human body.

Yes, do so, not present reactions, of course, we all know about them. Different past reactions!

All you have said is some gibberish about a separation from the spiritual. Well, radioactive decay is in nonliving things. You are suggesting that rocks had spiritual energy. And, again, what evidence is there of spiritual energy.

Well, how many have you found from pre flood, precisely?? And how would you know??? They could have been carried several miles below the surface for all we know. The dates you have for the bones you have, are meaningless, if the past was not the same. So how do you know they are pre flood???

I've already explained how. It has to do with radiometric dating and you have not given any reason why the rates would change unnoticed. Oh, right, spiritual loss, I thought that in Christianity only humans were spiritual. Then I guess it's a good thing that radiometric dating only works on that which is already dead (loss of soul if you want to get into theology) or which was never alive (like rocks).

In a different universe, changes still happen. Not generally changes that work toward decay. The key word is change, there. Not decay.

I'm sorry, but I'm using the term for decay from nuclear chemistry, which is just the change of one element (or isotope) to another. So, that change is decay.

How many doctors are the Almighty?? Think about it.

None, but it shows that there is no need for the breath of life to revive. And it shows that bringing the dead back to life is possible under entirely natural means.

Oh, sweet, that is very very fine with me. Let us start with you showing us all the science you have for Eden and New Jerusalem, and spirits!!! Otherwise, friend, you best just keep the debate relevant to this day and age. That is how the cookie crumbles.

I am not the one that claimed ANY of these exist. YOU are, the burden of proof is on you. I will not use my time and energy to support YOUR position. You provide evidence for your claims.

The change involved some sort of separation of the spiritual from the physical. All we know now is the physical. It was not a change IN the physical. We are the change, and what was left in this neck of the woods.

I think you're just making this up. At the very least provide some Bilbical scripture for your warped theology. I want to see evidence of it. Without any evidence I'm just going to reject it.

 

[thaumaturgy]

Well, as I look at the fossil record, .

Have you really looked at the fossil record, or are you going on reading a few popular press stories and watching Jurrasic Park?

How many rock piles have you literally crawled over to find a fossil for you paleontology class? How many times have you been out in the field and picked up a fossil? How many paleo papers have you written? What kind of systematic paleontology have you written up on a fossil?

Do tell us your experience in this area. That way when you say stuff about what you see in the fossil record, we'll know where you are coming from.

 

[dad]

No, I'm suggesting that they still don't fit the composition of elements in the human body.

How would you know what elements were available in the lower parts of the earth?

All you have said is some gibberish about a separation from the spiritual. Well, radioactive decay is in nonliving things. You are suggesting that rocks had spiritual energy. And, again, what evidence is there of spiritual energy.

I think matter was both, spiritual and physical together. Since it is separate now, all we can do is look to the well known spiritual evidences that have led most on earth through all history to comprehend there is some sort of spiritual.

I've already explained how. It has to do with radiometric dating and you have not given any reason why the rates would change unnoticed.

There were no rates to change. The rates are part of the present universe.

Oh, right, spiritual loss, I thought that in Christianity only humans were spiritual. Then I guess it's a good thing that radiometric dating only works on that which is already dead (loss of soul if you want to get into theology) or which was never alive (like rocks).

Dead is not the issue, being here in this present universe is the issue.

I'm sorry, but I'm using the term for decay from nuclear chemistry, which is just the change of one element (or isotope) to another. So, that change is decay.

Now, yes, but at creation, we had the eternal state, because Adam and the earth were to last forever.

None, but it shows that there is no need for the breath of life to revive. And it shows that bringing the dead back to life is possible under entirely natural means.

God's breath is special, not just hot air,

I am not the one that claimed ANY of these exist. YOU are, the burden of proof is on you. I will not use my time and energy to support YOUR position. You provide evidence for your claims.

I am not the one that claimed ANY same state universe in the past existed. Science bases all claims on that about the future or past. The burden of proof is on you. I will not use my time and energy to support YOUR position. You provide evidence for your claims.

My claims are evidenced, because the spiritual is well known, since science can't detect it, it doesn't matter there. But what matters is the lying claims made in the name of so called science.

I think you're just making this up. At the very least provide some Bilbical scripture for your warped theology. I want to see evidence of it. Without any evidence I'm just going to reject it.

Well, the differences in both the future, and pre flood world are quite clear, lifespans, fast tree growth, and evolution, and light, etc etc. It is beyond question fundamentally different than this present state we know.
http://www.geocities.com/lovecreates

 

[dad]

Have you really looked at the fossil record, or are you going on reading a few popular press stories and watching Jurrasic Park?

Have you any point about the record to make that is relative, and you think supports you position?

How many rock piles have you literally crawled over to find a fossil for you paleontology class? How many times have you been out in the field and picked up a fossil? How many paleo papers have you written? What kind of systematic paleontology have you written up on a fossil?

I have seen a few fossils, what about them? The ones I see, I do not apply systematic POology to. That would be ridiculous, and lead to ridiculous conclusions, such as that the creation created it's little self, and that we are beasts.

From all I have seen so far, only a migration from Eden explains it.

 

[thaumaturgy]

I have seen a few fossils

I bet. What, did you wander into the natural history museum and see them behind some glass?

Did you walk into the rock store and someone showed you a fossil?
You wouldn't know a brachiopod from bryozoan.

, what about them? The ones I see

WHICH ones do you see?

, I do not apply systematic POology to

Because you don't know what a systematic paleontology is, perhaps?

 

[Vene]

How would you know what elements were available in the lower parts of the earth?

I don't know, maybe by looking it up.
From here

The upper mantle is separated from the crust above by a seismic discontinuity, called the Mohorovicic discontinuity, or simply, Moho. A weak zone, known as the asthenosphere, separates it from the lower mantle below. The upper mantle is composed of iron and magnesium silicates, as typified by the mineral olivine. The lower part may consist of a mixture of oxides of magnesium, silicon, and iron.

Hey, look at that! Still no Carbon!

I think matter was both, spiritual and physical together. Since it is separate now, all we can do is look to the well known spiritual evidences that have led most on earth through all history to comprehend there is some sort of spiritual.

(Emphasis mine)
Why should I care what you think? Support it with evidence.

There were no rates to change. The rates are part of the present universe.

So, then you admit that without any radiometric decay it would be impossible for one element to change to the next. As such, for you to remain logically consistent you either need to propose a new mechanism (which, by the way, would definitely earn you a Nobel Prize) or change your view on the world.

Dead is not the issue, being here in this present universe is the issue.

Actually, dead is the issue as we're discussing radiometric dating and nothing living can be dated.

Now, yes, but at creation, we had the eternal state, because Adam and the earth were to last forever.

Scripture?

God's breath is special, not just hot air,

I never said it was hot air, I just stated that we humans have been able to bring the dead back to life.

I am not the one that claimed ANY same state universe in the past existed. Science bases all claims on that about the future or past. The burden of proof is on you. I will not use my time and energy to support YOUR position. You provide evidence for your claims.

I did, way back when I informed you of background radiation. Which, naturally, you just waved away. And when I tried to explain it to you, you just ignored the explanation.

My claims are evidenced, because the spiritual is well known, since science can't detect it, it doesn't matter there. But what matters is the lying claims made in the name of so called science.

It's well known because it's not detected? Do you also believe in pixies? They are well known. Just look at the beliefs of ancient society, but they are out of the bounds of science so they must be true. Scientists are just lying when they say that they don't exist.
Provide evidence. At this point I'm willing to deal with scripture.

Well, the differences in both the future, and pre flood world are quite clear, lifespans, fast tree growth, and evolution, and light, etc etc. It is beyond question fundamentally different than this present state we know.
http://www.geocities.com/lovecreates

Hey! You are almost supporting your position. Too bad when I tried to open the PDF file it crashed. And when I viewed the slide show it was set up like a children's book. It cited no studies nor scripture. In short, your source fails.