Carboniferous coal measures contain no flowering plants or grasses

[dad]

I never said there wasn't commonality. I said that the major elements in humans do not match that which is found in dirt.

Surface dirt. But all we need to do is have God go a little deeper, and all elements are available, of course.

Where is the carbon and the hydrogen.

Woooah! For the bogus big bang you cook up a story that gives a universe full of hydrogen, and, for a God reaction, powering up man, you think none could be produced? Get a grip, man.

Actually, organic is defined by the presence of carbon.

I suspect humans living forever, or even a thousand years may have a somewhat different signature. But how would you know???

If humans came from dust we would expect to see dirt that is largely carbon based. We would see dirt that has large amounts of hydrogen. OR we would see humans who are largely silicon based, we would see humans without carbon or hydrogen (or maybe trace amounts). It just doesn't fit.

Hey, electricity produces some reactions. Chemicals produce reactions. Atomic relationships can produce reactions. One thing can change to another. In a God reaction, about all you can do, is see how it turned out, and take notes. Did anyone say that Adam was surface dirt, in present elemental proportions??? Get serious.

And provide evidence for your power surge claim.

God breathed the breath of life, that has got to involve some power. In another place in the bible, a couple of men have His spirit of life come into their dead bodies, and they came alive again. (you will see it on TV in a few years, actually, as all the world will see it)
Now that is power.

 

[dad]

I'm still waiting for an explanation as to how DNA is fundamentally changed by a flood. Not that small sequences mutate or that selection acts on it, but for the entire chemical structure to be altered.

Not by a flood, by a universe change.

 

[ChordatesLegacy]

Fish had seas, and rivers and waterways to get around, amphibians were great for the sometimes swampy inhospitable earth, reptiles are a natural thing to follow. Birds possible competed with things like dinos, so one might expect a moderate approach, in a migration from Eden pattern, and mammals also.

Got any tough ones??

You may have got something right

Fish – amphibians – reptiles – birds and mammals





Fish - Amphibian missing link,
Link


Quote

A new fossil species has cast light on one of the most important transitions in evolution - fish's move onto land. The missing link, dubbed Tiktaalik roseae was found in river sediments up in the Arctic circle.
A team of paleontologists found several specimens* of the plucky part-fish, part-croc during a grueling month long expedition in 2004 to the remote site on Canada's Ellesmere Island. The incredibly well preserved details, described in the journal Nature, reveal a set of primitive features Tiktaalik had evolved to help it to conquer land.

Link 2

 

[dad]

You may have got something right

Fish – amphibians – reptiles – birds and mammals

Well, that matters not at all, since the fish migrated from the sea of Eden. The amphibians were well suited to go over water and land, or, we might say, an inhospitable planet. Birds arrived on the scene in due time, and good old mammals were not far behind.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/bigphotos/33160632.html

Fish - Amphibian missing link,
Link

No problem at all for Eden's creatures, as we were evolution equipped. Move over, inhospitable earth, here we come. Ready or not.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/04/0405_060405_fish_2.html

Quote

A new fossil species has cast light on one of the most important transitions in evolution - fish's move onto land. The missing link, dubbed Tiktaalik roseae was found in river sediments up in the Arctic circle.
A team of paleontologists found several specimens* of the plucky part-fish, part-croc during a grueling month long expedition in 2004 to the remote site on Canada's Ellesmere Island. The incredibly well preserved details, described in the journal Nature, reveal a set of primitive features Tiktaalik had evolved to help it to conquer land.

Great. The arctic was once warm, the evidence mounts!!! Some creatures could traverse land and sea. Fantastic. Just as predicted.
Evolution is grist for the creationist's mill.

 

[ChordatesLegacy]

Well, that matters not at all, since the fish migrated from the sea of Eden. The amphibians were well suited to go over water and land, or, we might say, an inhospitable planet. Birds arrived on the scene in due time, and good old mammals were not far behind.


No problem at all for Eden's creatures, as we were evolution equipped. Move over, inhospitable earth, here we come. Ready or not.



Great. The arctic was once warm, the evidence mounts!!! Some creatures could traverse land and sea. Fantastic. Just as predicted.
Evolution is grist for the creationist's mill.

It must be wonderful to be able to ignore the mountains of evidence for an old earth, evolution and humans being apes, in favour of religious ignorance.

Truly remarkable, perhaps you are the next link in the evolutionary chain, I mean we are all being told that America is dumbing down, and if you are anything to go by this is true.

Of course this is the only defence creationist have; even you’re so called creationist scientists hide behind the ignorant fundamentalist masses.

Not a single person has attempted to answer the questions posed in this threat with anything more intellectual than hand waving.

WELL DONE CREATIONIST; ONCE AGAIN HAND WAVING IS YOUR ONLY DEFENCE.

 

[ChordatesLegacy]

The Fish Within Us

Here's a good article for anyone who wants evidence and not creationist hand waving

Link

 

[EnemyPartyII]

The Fish Within Us

Here's a good article for anyone who wants evidence and not creationist hand waving

Link

I didn't know tiktalik was that big!

 

[ChordatesLegacy]

I didn't know tiktalik was that big!

It was quite a creature, up to nine feet long. Of course creationists will keep on stating that no intermediate creatures have been found.

It’s a shame they do not do more to increase their knowledge base.

I know you are a young earth person, but you are not hand waving, what are your thoughts on this thread.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

It was quite a creature, up to nine feet long. Of course creationists will keep on stating that no intermediate creatures have been found.

It’s a shame they do not do more to increase their knowledge base.

I know you are a young earth person, but you are not hand waving, what are your thoughts on this thread.

clearly the absence of flowers from coal seems is strongly indicative that coal predates flowering plants. Either that, or the devil hid all the flowers to confuse the paeleobotanists.

 

[ChordatesLegacy]

clearly the absence of flowers from coal seems is strongly indicative that coal predates flowering plants. Either that, or the devil hid all the flowers to confuse the paeleobotanists.

clearly the absence of flowers from coal seems is strongly indicative that coal predates flowering plants.

Yes, I am in agreement, this along with the mountain of other data in favour of an old earth, must be more than story telling

Either that, or the devil hid all the flowers to confuse the paeleobotanists.

Ha, now you are story telling, but confusing Paleobotanists is easy, I do it every Wednesday night.

 

[atomweaver]

Well, no, you did have a good point there. But, before losing the idea, I might ask you this. How long was it from the fall, till the time they actually left the garden? A day, a month, 4 years??? And how would you know?

The question you are really asking is, how swift is your God's justice, once he decides that the punishment is just? Is it swift, assertive and final, or does he just mete out justice when he gets around to it? You have your answer to that (Noahic Flood, S&G, Zepaniah, 2Kings)...

Another angle is, if we are born under sin, how is it that other sons of Adam, if born in Eden would not be also under it?? Think about it.

Your 'angle' likewise suggests that God cursed Adam and Eve with the Fall, then twiddled his thumbs for a couple of years before putting them out? Think about it, yourself.

 

[Vene]

Surface dirt. But all we need to do is have God go a little deeper, and all elements are available, of course.

Then by all means provide evidence for this.

Woooah! For the bogus big bang you cook up a story that gives a universe full of hydrogen, and, for a God reaction, powering up man, you think none could be produced? Get a grip, man.

Should I explain nuclear reactions to him? Or is it an exercise in futility?

I suspect humans living forever, or even a thousand years may have a somewhat different signature. But how would you know???

By finding human remains that have lived for thousands of years with different chemical structures. Or by finding people who have lived that long with different chemical structures. We haven't found ANY.

Hey, electricity produces some reactions. Chemicals produce reactions. Atomic relationships can produce reactions. One thing can change to another. In a God reaction, about all you can do, is see how it turned out, and take notes. Did anyone say that Adam was surface dirt, in present elemental proportions??? Get serious.

Electrical and chemical reactions do NOT change the elements present. Taking hydrogen and oxygen produces water, but water is still composed of hydrogen and oxygen as an example. As for change from element to element that is nuclear decay, and you have said that it didn't happen when humans were created.

God breathed the breath of life, that has got to involve some power. In another place in the bible, a couple of men have His spirit of life come into their dead bodies, and they came alive again. (you will see it on TV in a few years, actually, as all the world will see it)
Now that is power.

Why should I believe that it ever happened. People have been revived from death here by doctors. There is no breathing life into them, just shocking their heart with electricity.

And I notice that AGAIN, you have not provided a shred of evidence for your claims. This forum is for scientific debate (see this post) and for scientific debates we need sources so that we know you're not pulling it our of a certain sphincter

 

[Vene]

Not by a flood, by a universe change.

What was this change?

 

[EnemyPartyII]

What was this change?

when the pyramids were built. sheesh, you need a diagram???

 

[Vene]

when the pyramids were built. sheesh, you need a diagram???

Yes, a diagram would be nice.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

well you have your pyramids, which have pictures of boats in them. This proves they are contemporary with the flood.

The images in the pyramids also show people of varying sizes floating around each other and in an array of positions that would be impossible to be in today. This proves that the laws of physics were different and that giants walked amongst us.

Finally, hieroglyphics are clearly the attempts of people to communicate without a common language... proof of the tower of babel

 

[Naraoia]

One. And how many directions can birds fly, the wind blow, and animals walk??

Any, but they can't walk, fly and blow at indefinite speeds. So if migration starts from one point, we should see at least some concentric (if not exactly circular, because the earth isn't a homogeneous environment) pattern of gradual spreading.

 

[Naraoia]

Division in the ranks. Cool.

... Huh?

 

[Naraoia]

No, fish were created in the sea of Eden! No more than man should be all over.

Never knew there was a sea of Eden. It must have been a mighty big garden

 

[Naraoia]

Quote

A new fossil species has cast light on one of the most important transitions in evolution - fish's move onto land. The missing link, dubbed Tiktaalik roseae was found in river sediments up in the Arctic circle.
A team of paleontologists found several specimens* of the plucky part-fish, part-croc during a grueling month long expedition in 2004 to the remote site on Canada's Ellesmere Island. The incredibly well preserved details, described in the journal Nature, reveal a set of primitive features Tiktaalik had evolved to help it to conquer land.

How I love journalists. They couldn't have worded this worse. "part-fish, part-croc"? What in the world does Tiktaalik have to do with crocodiles, apart from living in water? And the "features Tiktaalik had evolved to help it to conquer land" nooooo, it didn't evolve them to do something, it evolved them because they turned out useful in shallow water, perhaps occasionally on the shore. To "conquer land" isn't a goal of evolution but a result of it.

I wish more journalists knew what they are talking about. To write in such an idiotic way about such a great find... bah.

</rant>

Of course, the evolution.berkeley.edu site got it much better.