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your thoughts on aliens/ extra terrestials?

Wiccan_Child

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It should perhaps be remembered that there is one miracle central to Christianity - namely the Resurrection. Therefore, if that miracle is accepted as historical, there is no prima facie reason for believing that other miracles might not also be historical.
I've heard it said that the only real miracle was Jesus' resurrection, and that that was the only time God directly intervened in the world. This, they say, emphasises the resurrection that much more.

Would that be a prima facie reason? It smacks of retroactive editing, like when the Pope spoke ex cathedra and made the Catholic traditional belief in the assumption of Mary an official belief.
 
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Strathos

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There's no evidence that ETs exist and even less that they're sentient and visiting us.

Perhaps we're the only ones.
Perhaps we're the first (someone has to be the Vorlons).
Perhaps we're the last.
Perhaps the universe is teeming with life, we just haven't come in contact yet.

Lorien's race came before the Vorlons[/nerd]
 
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lesliedellow

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I've heard it said that the only real miracle was Jesus' resurrection, and that that was the only time God directly intervened in the world. This, they say, emphasises the resurrection that much more.

Would that be a prima facie reason? It smacks of retroactive editing, like when the Pope spoke ex cathedra and made the Catholic traditional belief in the assumption of Mary an official belief.

It sounds as if they are none too happy about the miraculous, but they can't bring themselves to deny the Resurrection, because they realise its central importance for Christianity. It is hardly logical to allow one miracle in the New Testament, and then deny all the others.

My impression is that Christian theologians had a crisis of confidence around the beginning of the twentieth century. Science was the in thing, and so they thought they had to be "scientific" as well. It would make about as much sense for composers to have started composing "scientific" music - whatever that might sound like.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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Hi everyone. I believe in aliens and at the moment I am unable to find that one quote in the bible that says something like "among the rulers of the worlds was Satan" so that is saying Satan rules this world so others rule other worlds. I have also read and seen enough evidence to believe in them. What do you guys think about them?

Edit okay not evidence. I meant testimonies and signs. Not pure evidence...


For one the Bible says nothing of life on other planets, one way or the other. There may be, and there may not be, it is a pure intellectual debate, with no evidence either way.

If they do exist, I can assure you they have never came to earth.
 
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HiddenMe

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For one the Bible says nothing of life on other planets, one way or the other. There may be, and there may not be, it is a pure intellectual debate, with no evidence either way.

If they do exist, I can assure you they have never came to earth.

And your reassurance comes from....?
 
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HiddenMe

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I've heard it said that the only real miracle was Jesus' resurrection, and that that was the only time God directly intervened in the world.

Hearing something from someone else is not good enough to backup your claim, first of all.
Jesus performed several miracles to people who were Ill, blind, crippled possessed.
 
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TillICollapse

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Hearing something from someone else is not good enough to backup your claim, first of all.
Jesus performed several miracles to people who were Ill, blind, crippled possessed.
How do you know that Jesus performed several miracles to people who were Ill, blind, crippled and possessed ? Did you hear that from someone ?
 
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HiddenMe

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How do you know that Jesus performed several miracles to people who were Ill, blind, crippled and possessed ? Did you hear that from someone ?

Of course not. I READ it from the bible. My source is reliable in what I preach. Just like to build something or so you go to the manual.
Hearing something from someone else to backup a bible claim is not a good source.
 
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Wiccan_Child

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And your reassurance comes from....?
Aliens are known to exist because the universe is vast. Once upon a time, the density of habitable worlds was vanishingly low, so no aliens had visited us (we can rule the possibility out for the same reason we can confidently state that every full deal of a shuffled deck is unique). But the recent tidal wave of exoplanets has shown that small rocky worlds are actually much more common than we thought, so it becomes distressingly possible that aliens have come our way.

I still think the odds are remote, but not as remote as would be otherwise comfortable.
 
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Wiccan_Child

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Hearing something from someone else is not good enough to backup your claim, first of all.
I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean. Are you saying you don't believe that I ever encountered such Christians?

Jesus performed several miracles to people who were Ill, blind, crippled possessed.
Allegedly. The Christians I encountered would argue these are metaphors, allegories, or simply exaggerations, perhaps tacked on after the fact to embellish the story of Jesus (which originally contained just one miracle).
 
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Wiccan_Child

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It sounds as if they are none too happy about the miraculous, but they can't bring themselves to deny the Resurrection, because they realise its central importance for Christianity. It is hardly logical to allow one miracle in the New Testament, and then deny all the others.
My understanding is it's done to emphasise the resurrection. The infinite importance of the resurrection logically means it is the only miracle (lest it be sullied by other miracles, I suppose). God would have no need to do multiple miracles - anything he wants done can be done in one fell swoop.

Even if it's illogical, there is a tantalizing nugget of logic in it all.

My impression is that Christian theologians had a crisis of confidence around the beginning of the twentieth century. Science was the in thing, and so they thought they had to be "scientific" as well.
Hmm, I'm not so such. Modern science, the community, the method, even the Enlightenment itself, was born out of the attempt by Creationists to provide solid empirical backing for the events in the Bible. A scientific critique of the Bible predates the early 1900s, I think.

It would make about as much sense for composers to have started composing "scientific" music - whatever that might sound like.
I would say that Western music theory and formal notation are quite clinical and scientific treatments of the art, and have been around for a long time. Contrast a carefully composed aria to more 'folksy' music, or the intricately crafted violin to the banjo.
 
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stevevw

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Well i would say according to evolution there should be life forms in many places in the universe. It doesn't have to be on planets like earth as life forms can survive even in volcanic vents on the sea floor. But if there was intelligent life somewhere else would we or they be able to make some sort of contact. Haven't we been sending out all sorts of signals into the far reaches of the universe for years and havnt seen or heard one whisper in the least. If there was human type life on other planets then Jesus would have to die again and again and somehow I dont think that would happen.
 
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TLK Valentine

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Well i would say according to evolution there should be life forms in many places in the universe.

Not so much evolution as the law of averages -- with an infinite number of planets in the universe, odds are that more than one of them can support life.

It doesn't have to be on planets like earth as life forms can survive even in volcanic vents on the sea floor.

Indeed -- we've seen a ridiculous variety of life just on this one planet -- who knows what could happen elsewhere?

But if there was intelligent life somewhere else would we or they be able to make some sort of contact. Haven't we been sending out all sorts of signals into the far reaches of the universe for years and havnt seen or heard one whisper in the least.

The universe is a big place -- we've only been sending out signals for less than a hundred years; even at lightspeed that barely covers a fraction of our own galaxy.

If there was human type life on other planets then Jesus would have to die again and again and somehow I dont think that would happen.

Why would he have to do it again and again? Didn't Jesus die for everyone's sins? Why wouldn't once be enough?
 
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stevevw

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Please explain why you think that is so.

Well according to evolution and even though they cant explain this yet it takes certain chemicals and events to start life. They have found some of those ingredients for life even in our own solar system. So chances are there has to be those chemicals together in such a vast universe. They have found many earth like planets. According to evolution life adapts to its environment. With a universe so large there should be some other life that has evolved. Even if its strange life that lives in hostile environments there should be something.

But if there is some form of life then depending on how long its been there and the environment its in then it will be able to change and adapt to that environment and evolve into more complex life. This is what evolution says. So any life in the universe can evolve into intelligent life forms provided the environment is suitable. Because if any sort of life has taken hold then the basis for all life has been created and with evolution it can evolve into more complex forms. So having such a large universe that is billions of years old the odds would be fairly high for some form of life and pretty high for more intelligent ones as well.

Also because scientists have had such a hard time explaining how life began on our planet another hypothesis is that life came form somewhere else in the universe to start it on our planet. The theory is it came on a meteorite and thats how we got the beginnings of life on our planet.

7 Good Reasons Why There Might Be Life on Other Planets
Paleontologist presents origin of life theory -- ScienceDaily
 
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lesliedellow

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My understanding is it's done to emphasise the resurrection. The infinite importance of the resurrection logically means it is the only miracle (lest it be sullied by other miracles, I suppose). God would have no need to do multiple miracles - anything he wants done can be done in one fell swoop.

Unless they are going to redefine miracle, to say that the Resurrection of the only miracle requires the person making that assertion to ignore the testimony of the New Testament. That an atheist would do that is not surprising, bust somebody calling himself a Christian can hardly take the New Testament as an optional extra.



Even if it's illogical, there is a tantalizing nugget of logic in it all.

How does "illogical" manage to equate to logical?



Hmm, I'm not so such. Modern science, the community, the method, even the Enlightenment itself, was born out of the attempt by Creationists to provide solid empirical backing for the events in the Bible.

The Enlightenment was probably the direct result of the Thirty Years War. After the Treaty of Westphalia, the feeling was abroad that there had been enough religious conflict, and from now on sweet reason was going to rule the world - until the violence and irrationality of the French Revolution put an end to that naive idea.

Modern science had its origin in an attempt to uncover the laws by which God ruled the universe. Nobody had apologetic motives, because they were still in an age when the existence of God was more or less taken for granted. The earliest attempts were none too scientific - they just had the vague intuition that laws ordained by God must be out there somewhere..



A scientific critique of the Bible predates the early 1900s, I think.

The "scientific" critique of the Bible attempted by people like Bruno Baur was motivated by the "in thing" of his own day, which was philosophical idealism. Nobody, conservative, liberal, or otherwise, pays much attention to him today. Although things like the Theory of Evolution were not incompatible with Christianity - more than one of Darwin's collaborators were devout Christians - it did help to create an atmosphere in which theologians started to panic at the beginning of the twentieth century. Science was the coming thing, nobody was much interested in what they had to say, and they wanted to be "relevant".

The theologian Karl Barth famously started off as a liberal. Then, during the carnage of the First World War, he stood in his pulpit, with the Bible open before him, and discovered that all his erudition left him with nothing to say to his congregation. Subsequently he became much more conservative, although American fundamentalists still regard him as having been a liberal through and through.



I would say that Western music theory and formal notation are quite clinical and scientific treatments of the art, and have been around for a long time. Contrast a carefully composed aria to more 'folksy' music, or the intricately crafted violin to the banjo.

If music is governed by something analogous to Einstein's Field Equation, perhaps we should feed it into a computer, and wait for it to cough out a symphony.
 
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Mr Strawberry

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lesliedellow

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selfinflikted

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I doubt if Beethoven will be revolving in his grave. A computer can't put human emotions into its compositions. Still less could it come up with Handel's Messiah.

No one can put emotions into music. They can, however, write music that solicits emotion. Those "formulae" are quite well-known, so a computer probably could do it, in fact.
 
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lesliedellow

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No one can put emotions into music. They can, however, write music that solicits emotion. Those "formulae" are quite well-known, so a computer probably could do it, in fact.

Atheists truly do imagine humans to be calculating machines, don't they? Nobody could write the Messiah without genuine religious emotion being involved.
 
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