Your Core Belief(s)!

[cvanwey]

Ephesians 2:8
"8For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not by works, so that no one can boast.…"

(Emphasis mine)

It is a gift. That reference to "works" also includes mental gymnastics.

Great, more deflection...

Okay, weee!

The fact that I can ask you, are you a 'sheep or a goat' (via Matthew 25:31-46) demonstrates direct contradiction to your above Verse. Maybe both you and @Halbhh can collaborate and stew on this for a while

 

[Tone]

Great, more deflection...

Your heart is indeed deflecting, when presented with seed.


*And your scientization (new word) is snatching it up...

 

[cvanwey]

Your heart is indeed deflecting, when presented with seed.


*And your scientization (new word) is snatching it up...

The more we exchange, the further away you get from addressing the OP

 

[Tone]

the topic heads towards the core reason(s) for their belief that Christianity is true, I often times sense push-back, or even retreat from the interlocutor prior to getting to the 'heart' of the matter? It seems as though many do not want their true and core belief thoroughly challenged.?.?.?

Your heart is indeed deflecting, when presented with seed.


*And your scientization (new word) is snatching it up...

I do not know how to address the OP more directly.


*Two seeds...one from the serpent...the other of the woman.

 

[cvanwey]

I do not know how to address the OP more directly.

I keep trying to help you out with this... But you keep ignoring what I write. Please look at post #138, just for starters. I'm placing observations on the table, which would force you, if you actually engage, to challenge your own assertions.

 

[Tone]

I do not know how to address the OP more directly.


*Two seeds...one from the serpent...the other of the woman.

And I already told you a llllooonnng time ago (seemingly) about my experience with your numbered...thingies.

 

[Tone]

I keep trying to help you out with this... But you keep ignoring what I write. Please look at post #138, just for starters. I'm placing observations on the table, which would force you, if you actually engage, to challenge your own assertions.

Okay, my turn to be repetitive. I know this is a didactic tactic.

Your heart is indeed deflecting, when presented with seed.


*And your scientization (new word) is snatching it up...

 

[cvanwey]

Okay, my turn to be repetitive. In know this is a didactic tactic.

Thank you for your time. Peace out.

 

[Tone]

Okay, my turn to be repetitive. In know this is a didactic tactic.

Just as the seed of the woman that I am presenting to you causes you to resist, so the scientization causes me to resist.

 

[Tone]

I keep trying to help you out with this... But you keep ignoring what I write. Please look at post #138, just for starters. I'm placing observations on the table, which would force you, if you actually engage, to challenge your own assertions.

Believe me, there is plenty within my own heart and mind that challenges truth.

Galatians 5
"16So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17For the flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are opposed to each other, so that you do not do what you want. 18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.…"

 

[Tone]

Galatians 5
"16So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17For the flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are opposed to each other, so that you do not do what you want. 18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.…"

That ^ is your answer to the below, btw:

The fact that I can ask you, are you a 'sheep or a goat' (via Matthew 25:31-46)

 

[Tone]

Thank you for your time. Peace out.

Thank you, and may Abba Yah Speak deeply into your core in Yahshua ha Mashiach. Amen.

 

[disciple Clint]

How so? Please demonstrate; rather than to only offer a blank assertion.



I'm into learning, as much as the next. Please teach me.

However, I trust you are also aware of the purpose for this forum?

---> Christian Apologetics

---> A forum for non-Christians to challenge the Christian faith, and for Christians to defend their faith.

In light of the intended purpose of this topic, do you actually care to engage in the OP? Because I'm willing to bet that even if I was to persuade you that I do indeed 'understand', and was also to demonstrate your then presented moral conflict, for instance, I sincerely doubt ANY of this has bearing upon why you believe what you actually believe. I'm more than willing to stake a wager that your core belief stems from 'revelation.'

Since you want to learn, go to your search engine, enter a scripture verse and the word commentary. Then once you understand what the verse is saying you can reformulate your questions.

 

[cvanwey]

Since you want to learn, go to your search engine, enter a scripture verse and the word commentary. Then once you understand what the verse is saying you can reformulate your questions.

This response will ring deja vu...

Please demonstrate; rather than to only offer a blank assertion.

I'm into learning, as much as the next. Please teach me.

However, I trust you are also aware of the purpose for this forum?

---> Christian Apologetics

---> A forum for non-Christians to challenge the Christian faith, and for Christians to defend their faith.

In light of the intended purpose of this topic, do you actually care to engage in the OP? Because I'm willing to bet that even if I was to persuade you that I do indeed 'understand', and was also to demonstrate your then presented moral conflict, for instance, I sincerely doubt ANY of this has bearing upon why you believe what you actually believe. I'm more than willing to stake a wager that your core belief stems from 'revelation.'

 

[Par5]

This response will ring deja vu...

Please demonstrate; rather than to only offer a blank assertion.

I'm into learning, as much as the next. Please teach me.

However, I trust you are also aware of the purpose for this forum?

---> Christian Apologetics

---> A forum for non-Christians to challenge the Christian faith, and for Christians to defend their faith.

In light of the intended purpose of this topic, do you actually care to engage in the OP? Because I'm willing to bet that even if I was to persuade you that I do indeed 'understand', and was also to demonstrate your then presented moral conflict, for instance, I sincerely doubt ANY of this has bearing upon why you believe what you actually believe. I'm more than willing to stake a wager that your core belief stems from 'revelation.'

You have been told, almost from the off, that you need to be prepared to learn. Going by some of the posts on this thread I bet you didn't think it was tap dancing they wanted you to learn!

 

[cvanwey]

You have been told, almost from the off, that you need to be prepared to learn. Going by some of the posts on this thread I bet you didn't think it was tap dancing they wanted you to learn!

This looks to be off topic, but I'll indulge...

To all viewers telling me I 'need to learn'. Please add where you feel I have went astray...

The message is that if you have true faith in Jesus, it will compel you to then help your fellow humans. The more you have faith, the more you will be willing to help others. Essentially, what this means, as expressed in Matthew 25:31-46, is that Jesus can then judge your level of faith, by how much you help others. But there lies the conflict. And the conflict is as such.... How does one get to heaven?

- Grace alone
- Grace by faith
- Grace by works
- Some combination of grace/faith/works

If you read some passages, you get the impression you are saved by grace alone. If you read other passages, you are saved by your belief/repent/worship of God. When you read others, you get the sense that works are necessary.

The kicker is a true believer can still be selfish. The kicker is that a true believer can also be giving. But here is even the bigger kicker. ALL will fall short anyways, according to the judge. And in Matthew 25:31-46, Jesus seems to judge the faithful, by way of their represented works for others.

So you guys tell me, are you a sheep or a goat? The fact I can ask this question, then raises the above, about grace/faith/works.... Example:

Who is more likely to go to heaven, according to Scripture?

- A true-blue believer, whom avoids a little/some/most/all opportunities to help his/her fellow man
- A complete doubter of Christ, but a devout philanthropist

 

[Halbhh]

Great, more deflection...

Okay, weee!

The fact that I can ask you, are you a 'sheep or a goat' (via Matthew 25:31-46) demonstrates direct contradiction to your above Verse. Maybe both you and @Halbhh can collaborate and stew on this for a while

Above we've given help to you to try to understand how Grace and works go together. I gave you a quote that explains it, and passages.

The thing is, it's up to you to attempt to learn.

Just like in every type of knowledge even, every field of knowledge, one can only learn well if they are willing and take an attitude that there is something to learn.

What do you have to lose?

@Tone
@Par5

 

[cvanwey]

Above we've given help to you to try to understand how Grace and works go together. I gave you a quote that explains it, and passages.

The thing is, it's up to you to attempt to learn.

Just like in every type of knowledge even, every field of knowledge, one can only learn well if they are willing and take an attitude that there is something to learn.

What do you have to lose?

@Tone
@Par5

See post #156. If you want to continue spending time on this side-coversation, um, okay???

Furthermore, as I told another, this is nothing more than a side-conversation. It's all irrelevant to the OP. I'm happy to answer people's responses. However, at some point, I find it fair to draw a line in the proverbial sand. Enough is enough

My OP can be just as well given/presented to a Catholic, a Jew, a Protestant, a Methodist, a Muslim, a Scientologist, etc.... You all differ in your claims to salvation. So studying the Bible really does nothing now, does it?

The meat of this thread is to discern how you KNOW you have been contacted by God/the Spirit/Other, verses NOT? For many, this IS WHY they believe.

Please tell me which of the 6 methods, in post #1, applies for you? If you do not claim to have been contacted by the Holy Spirit, then please, let's not waste any more time on 'THE way to salvation' --- (where many Christians, whom have studied the Bible extensively, will also disagree with you)

 

[Tone]

What do you have to lose?

@Tone

You raaannnnguuuh?

 

[Paul4JC]

Thank you for your response. I won't ask you questions, because it would appear you might not want to answer them. But please understand what I'm reading...

- You believe due to repetition
- You believe because the message was unique
- You believe because the book changed your thinking in some way
- You accept the hits and ignore the misses

I doubt a truth claim is verified, using such methods.

I don't believe due to your theories. I only believe due to Jesus Christ. He is the message. I can't add anything.

I wouldn't doubt your life experience, so why do you mine?

You gonna spend your whole life splitting hairs?

Have you read the Gospel of John at face value, or only read it with your "paradigm glasses"? [...that reminds me, of chapter 9, summarized by Christ in the last verse] Or you have not yet read it once through.

Faith is not a quantity, it can't be measured. It's a quality. God bless.