Your Core Belief(s)!

[cvanwey]

I've been on this forum for ~3 years now. And I continue to find it interesting that when engaged in an exchange with a proclaimed Christian, whenever the topic heads towards the core reason(s) for their belief that Christianity is true, I often times sense push-back, or even retreat from the interlocutor prior to getting to the 'heart' of the matter? It seems as though many do not want their true and core belief thoroughly challenged.?.?.?

In such 'observation', I find it pertinent to create a designated topic for this finding alone.

As I've said elsewhere, I doubt the many topics, encompassed within apologetics, is neither the reason someone came to, or fell away from, the assertion(s) for YHWH. I would be rash to state that the SOLE reason many are believers, is due to perceived or discerned revelation.

Thus, for all of you whom came to God, by way of felt contact from the Holy Spirit, I guess it becomes necessary to then explore the topic of [external world skepticism], or as I will call it, EWS.

Are any of you believers game here? Below are the eight methodologies in which I see believers coming to God. If you have any more, please indulge:

1) A felt thought, or intrusion, that seems not to have been your own; but from an 'external force'
2) Having an innate awareness, or a seemingly 'sixth sense'
3) Feeling(s) of intense euphoria, feeling overcome by an 'external force'
4) Actually hearing audible voices 'from God'
5) A burning in the bosom
6) Ability to all of a sudden speak in tongues, the angel's language, as the spirit takes you over
7) Receiving 'external' messages, which could only have been provided by an 'external source' of seemingly higher knowledge.
8) Answered prayer(s)

 

[Halbhh]

"the reason someone came to"

I tried doing what Christ said to do, to see if I could gain anything, and His instructions for living work far better than other ways of doing things, I learned by experience.

Experiment and observing outcomes are meaningful to me. If I see the sun rise 1,000 times, I start to understand/believe it will rise tomorrow.

What about you, cvanwey?

How did you come to your beliefs, and what changes them for you, in your life history?

 

[ChetSinger]

Sure. Observation of the creation alone has been enough to lead people to Deism, or the power and nature of God.

Coming to Jesus requires more: he once said "no one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him.".

I was once an atheist who laughed at Christian beliefs. Then I was drawn to read the gospel of Luke, and the words of Jesus rang true to me, and my life was changed. So I came to Christ by reading his words.

 

[cvanwey]

"the reason someone came to"

I tried doing what Christ said to do, to see if I could gain anything, and His instructions for living work far better than other ways of doing things, I learned by experience.

Experiment and observing outcomes are meaningful to me. If I see the sun rise 1,000 times, I start to understand/believe it will rise tomorrow.

Have you tried living by ALL the assertions of Jesus, or just some of them, which are more rational or convenient for you? (i.e.)

Have you given away all your possessions, or as much as humanly possible? If so, how were you able to respond to this thread?

Do you never seek 'justice/retribution' of the individuals whom decide to take from you? I doubt it.

If someone was ever to strike you, do you happily allow them to strike you again? I doubt it.

Furthermore....

Have you tried living by the assertions of all others as well, whom do not pronounce Jesus as their gateway; such as Gandhi or Confucius for a couple of quick examples? No? Why not?

What about you, cvanwey?

How did you come to your beliefs, and what changes them for you, in your life history?

I have no belief, where Jesus is concerned. I have a lack in belief, that He rose from the dead to save me. But nice try in trying to shift the burden

And no, I do not feel I ever received God's revelation, which is what this topic is after....

 

[Halbhh]

Have you tried living by ALL the assertions of Jesus, or just some of them, which are more rational or convenient for you? (i.e.)

Remember how I suggest (insist actually) in discussion only 1 or 2 questions/topic simultaneously? Because otherwise you get just confusion from too many threads at once.

Did you notice you used the prejudiced word "assertion", which carries the connotation today in the U.S. of a doubtful claim, which people ought to disbelieve (instead of merely waiting to see). Usually when we say someone 'asserted' X in casual American conversation, we mean that we expect X to be false.

A more neutral word might be "idea" or "philosophy"

Instead of starting by insisting the ideas from Christ are false, or very likely false -- either -- I started with a more neutral or scientific attitude: That I didn't know one way or the other. I tried them out instead of deciding without proof they were false.

2nd question: just a few and not all?

Answer: one, and then after extensive testing, another, and then after testing that one, another, and then after testing that one, another. Eventually every last one in all 4 gospels I can find, without any exceptions I can think of (having read through those many times each very slowly and carefully, investigating every wording I wasn't clear on).

 

[cvanwey]

Sure. Observation of the creation alone has been enough to lead people to Deism, or the power and nature of God.

For sake in brevity alone, let's all just concede deism. Moving forward, you still appear to have a LONG way to go, from deism to Christ

Coming to Jesus requires more: he once said "no one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him.".

We have many proclaimed prophets. What makes Jesus so special, verses the rest?

I was once an atheist who laughed at Christian beliefs. Then I was drawn to read the gospel of Luke, and the words of Jesus rang true to me, and my life was changed. So I came to Christ by reading his words.

So if you read a book, and it changes you, it must be true????

I also have to ask... In light of the OP, have you felt 'revelation' from God? I'm assuming your answer might be yes, when you state you read Luke? If so, does it encompass one of the 6). points in the OP?

 

[Tone]

Thus, for all of you whom came to God, by way of felt contact from the Holy Spirit,

I doubt many would say that they came to God through felt contact, though, in my case, it may have confirmed contact.

As to the list, I've experienced all except #4.

 

[Halbhh]

So if you read a book, and it changes you, it must be true????

Define your term "true" as you mean it. What makes something "true" to you? Is (Newton's law of) Gravity "true" to you? (or if you prefer,
Einstein's General Relativity instead)

 

[ChetSinger]

We have many proclaimed prophets. What makes Jesus so special, verses the rest?

For one thing, he rose from the dead.

So if you read a book, and it changes you, it must be true????

I also have to ask... In light of the OP, have you felt 'revelation' from God? I'm assuming your answer might be yes, when you state you read Luke? If so, does it encompass one of the 6). points in the OP?

You asked specifically about "coming to God". And that's how it happened. I don't think it fits any of the points in your OP.

 

[cvanwey]

Remember how I suggest (insist actually) in discussion only 1 or 2 questions/topic simultaneously? Because otherwise you get just confusion from too many threads at once.

Did you notice you used the prejudiced word "assertion", which carries the connotation today in the U.S. of a doubtful claim, which people ought to disbelieve (instead of merely waiting to see). Usually when we say someone 'asserted' X in casual American conversation, we mean that we expect X to be false.

A more neutral word might be "idea" or "philosophy"

Instead of starting by insisting the ideas from Christ are false, or very likely false -- either -- I started with a more neutral or scientific attitude: That I didn't know one way or the other. I tried them out instead of deciding without proof they were false.

2nd question: just a few and not all?

Answer: one, and then after extensive testing, another, and then after testing that one, another, and then after testing that one, another. Eventually every last one in all 4 gospels I can find, without any exceptions I can think of (having read through those many times each very slowly and carefully, investigating every wording I wasn't clear on).

You look to be delivering a red herring.

Please also remember what the OP asks. Did you address the OP? I merely responded to what you wrote. If you do not want answers to your given remarks, do not make them.

I will reiterate my OP for you again. I 'assert' that most came to Christ, not by any other reason but by felt revelation. If this does NOT include you, then I will still be happy to explore YOUR reason. But as I already eluded to, I sincerely doubt you ascribe to ALL of Jesus's teachings. -- Just likely only the ones you like

And I also sincerely doubt you have given all opposing assertions a fair shake

 

[cvanwey]

Define your term "true" as you mean it. What makes something "true" to you? Is (Newton's law of) Gravity "true" to you? (or if you prefer,
Einstein's General Relativity instead)

You will have to ask @ChetSinger this question. He is the one whom stated "and the words of Jesus rang true to me"

 

[Halbhh]

Did you address the OP?

See post #2, in which I'm responding only and exactly to the most central question in the OP I can locate.

 

[cvanwey]

For one thing, he rose from the dead.

He did? How do you know?

And how do you know all the other claims, for raised prophets, are actually false? (i.e.) Horus, Apollonius of Tyanna, Zoroaster of Persia, Siddhartha Gautama of India, just for starters....

And putting that all aside anyhow, why does being raised from the dead constitute as being your creator?

You asked specifically about "coming to God". And that's how it happened. I don't think it fits any of the points in your OP.

I beg to differ. If you do not mind, I would like to explore. You stated "it just felt true when reading Luke'. I would say reasons 3). and 5)., from the OP, look to parallel here. Do you disagree?

 

[Halbhh]

You will have to ask @ChetSinger this question. He is the one whom stated "and the words of Jesus rang true to me"

That usage is clear enough.

Most people at some point in life could be experienced enough in certain ways that would allow them to hear something 'ring true' in instructions like "love one another" or "In everything, do to others as you'd have them do to you". It 'rings true' (sounds right after enough life experience). They've already got the observations enough for it to 'ring true'.

 

[cvanwey]

See post #2, in which I'm responding only and exactly to the most central question in the OP I can locate.

Yes. Now address post #4. Backed up by post #10.

 

[cvanwey]

That usage is clear enough.

Most people at some point in life could be experienced enough in certain ways that would allow them to hear something 'ring true' in instructions like "love one another" or "In everything, do to others as you'd have them do to you". It 'rings true' (sounds right after enough life experience). They've already got the observations enough for it to 'ring true'.

I would agree, but you do not seem too eager to address the many other things Jesus also asserts, ala post #4.

 

[ChetSinger]

He did? How do you know?

And how do you know all the other claims, for raised prophets, are actually false? (i.e.) Horus, Apollonius of Tyanna, Zoroaster of Persia, Siddhartha Gautama of India, just for starters....

And putting that all aside anyhow, why does being raised from the dead constitute as being your creator?



I beg to differ. If you do not mind, I would like to explore. You stated "it just felt true when reading Luke'. I would say reasons 3). and 5)., from the OP, look to parallel here. Do you disagree?

I suspect you're here just to argue. And that doesn't interest me. So I'm bowing out.

 

[Halbhh]

I would agree, but you do not seem too eager to address the many other things Jesus also asserts, ala post #4.

I didn't read in a context-less way an isolated verse without any sense of the overall meanings Jesus is teaching, but read any/all verses as part of the entire whole of all He says, together. Just as He would expect a follower to do. So, I'm able to notice all the wordings and broader meanings in their intended senses. Is there one in particular you'd like to hear about? (don't bother to try to give me a too-much kind of list of 4 or 8 things at once though; I won't play along with that kind of tactic (if this isn't clear, reverse positions and consider if I asked you 10 involved questions all in one post))

 

[cvanwey]

I suspect you're here just to argue. And that doesn't interest me. So I'm bowing out.

I'm sorry you feel this way. This is a debate forum. I'm here to question or challenge your assertions. I suspect post #1, for you, then looks to be right on point:

"whenever the topic heads towards the core reason(s) for their belief that Christianity is true, I often times sense push-back, or even retreat from the interlocutor prior to getting to the 'heart' of the matter? It seems as though many do not want their true and core belief thoroughly challenged.?.?.?"

 

[ChetSinger]

I'm sorry you feel this way. This is a debate forum. I'm here to question or challenge your assertions. I suspect post #1, for you, then looks to be right on point:

"whenever the topic heads towards the core reason(s) for their belief that Christianity is true, I often times sense push-back, or even retreat from the interlocutor prior to getting to the 'heart' of the matter? It seems as though many do not want their true and core belief thoroughly challenged.?.?.?"

You asked a question and I gave you my answer. If you want to converse, I'm fine, but if you want to argue, I'm not interested.