Your Core Belief(s)!

[Par5]

If you assume death of this mortal body is the final end of a person, a real and final death, then you are just simply using a form of assuming God does not exist.

If God exists, then the death of this mortal body is only something like "sleep".

e.g. --

49 While Jesus was still speaking, someone came from the house of Jairus, the synagogue leader. “Your daughter is dead,” he said. “Don’t bother the teacher anymore.”

50 Hearing this, Jesus said to Jairus, “Don’t be afraid; just believe, and she will be healed.”

51 When he arrived at the house of Jairus, he did not let anyone go in with him except Peter, John and James, and the child’s father and mother. 52 Meanwhile, all the people were wailing and mourning for her. “Stop wailing,” Jesus said. “She is not dead but asleep.”

53 They laughed at him, knowing that she was dead.
---------
Luke 8 NIV

Of course, she was only "asleep" in an ultimate sense. Death of this mortal body isn't the end of a person, but more like a transition, or a sleep.

Ergo, all those people that died in whatever wars, "slaughter" (your wording above), famine, earthquake, old age, cancer, rocks falling on them, whatever, are all still in existence after their mortal bodies are dust.

I used the word slaughter because, in the case of the Amalekites and Canaanites, slaughter was what it was. Perhaps you would prefer the word genocide.
I asked you if you would be capable of being party to such a killing spree if you had been ordered by your god to kill everyone and spare none including children and infants.
I have almost given up hope of ever hearing a Christian answer that question, or even simply say such killing was wrong.
I have often heard more or less what you have been saying. It is almost as though those doing the killing were doing the innocents and the children a favour by killing them as this put them on the express elevator to happy land.
Perhaps you will be the first Christian to actually answer the question, but I will not be surprised if you don't.

 

[Halbhh]

I used the word slaughter because, in the case of the Amalekites and Canaanites, slaughter was what it was. Perhaps you would prefer the word genocide.
I asked you if you would be capable of being party to such a killing spree if you had been ordered by your god to kill everyone and spare none including children and infants.
I have almost given up hope of ever hearing a Christian answer that question, or even simply say such killing was wrong.
I have often heard more or less what you have been saying. It is almost as though those doing the killing were doing the innocents and the children a favour by killing them as this put them on the express elevator to happy land.
Perhaps you will be the first Christian to actually answer the question, but I will not be surprised if you don't.

Christians are under the new covenant and specifically instructed to "put away your sword" -- no attacks on anyone.

What about when innocent people die?

Even children...?

Because God exists, they are not dead -- they are all alive.

If someone I love dies tomorrow unexpectedly, and no matter the cause, , I know that they are only "asleep".

And will wake up.

 

[Par5]

Christians are under the new covenant and specifically instructed to "put away your sword" -- no attacks on anyone.

What about when innocent people die?

Even children...?

Because God exists, they are not dead -- they are all alive.

If someone I love dies tomorrow unexpectedly, and no matter the cause, , I know that they are only "asleep".

And will wake up.

I didn't ask you about what you say is your god's new covenant to put away the sword.
I was asking about the time he told people to pick up the sword, and in the case of the Amalekites, use that sword to kill them all including children and infants.
So instead of tap dancing around the question by bringing up a new covenant and fanciful stuff about dead people not being dead, why not try to actually answer the question?
So I'll ask again. Would you be capable of taking part in the slaughter of all those people, including helpless children and infants?
You seem to have great difficulty in answering that question, but you are not alone. Every other Christians, to whom I put that question, also failed to answer.

 

[Halbhh]

I didn't ask you about what you say is your god's new covenant to put away the sword.
I was asking about the time he told people to pick up the sword, and in the case of the Amalekites, use that sword to kill them all including children and infants.
So instead of tap dancing around the question by bringing up a new covenant and fanciful stuff about dead people not being dead, why not try to actually answer the question?
So I'll ask again. Would you be capable of taking part in the slaughter of all those people, including helpless children and infants?
You seem to have great difficulty in answering that question, but you are not alone. Every other Christians, to whom I put that question, also failed to answer.

I think it's such an interesting question to discuss. There is more than only one key aspect also.

First, initially, just so I can better understand what all you are thinking here and then be able to communicate better and avoid saying redundant things, let me start by asking you an initial question about war itself.

Do you yourself think the United States should have fought Germany and Japan in WWII -- was it right to do so?

(Related aspect: Are you aware that a lot of women and children were killed in bombing, which was done with specific full awareness that it would kill those non-combatants? If not, please look up the "firebombing of Tokyo" and of Dresden.
For clarity, to attempt to avoid confusion, I'm not endorsing those firebombings, but instead, I'm asking you about them, about your own viewpoint.)

So, was war against Germany valid? And Japan?

If yes, why?

If no, why?

Is it correct to oppose wrongdoing with force, in your view? Policing -- do you agree policing is valid, with force, and sometimes deadly force?

If you think it's ok for a police officer to kill someone, and you also yourself think that death of this mortal body is the final real death, then how do you yourself justify your own viewpoint there?

 

[Halbhh]

I didn't ask you about what you say is your god's new covenant to put away the sword.
I was asking about the time he told people to pick up the sword, and in the case of the Amalekites, use that sword to kill them all including children and infants.
So instead of tap dancing around the question by bringing up a new covenant and fanciful stuff about dead people not being dead, why not try to actually answer the question?
So I'll ask again. Would you be capable of taking part in the slaughter of all those people, including helpless children and infants?
You seem to have great difficulty in answering that question, but you are not alone. Every other Christians, to whom I put that question, also failed to answer.

I was just realizing it may be easy to wrongly guess about my viewpoints from the post above, and that might cause a lot of confusion and then baseless conclusions. So to better make it clear, not only do I personally oppose such actions as the firebombing of Tokyo and Dresden, but also I think a police officer should try very hard to avoid using deadly force. (of course some do try really hard to avoid using deadly force, and some do not, and I'm saying those that do try extensively and sometimes at risk to themselves even to avoid using deadly force are acting correctly, and in contrast those that resort early to deadly force are doing wrong, serious wrong).

 

[Par5]

I think it's such an interesting question to discuss. There is more than only one key aspect also.

First, initially, just so I can better understand what all you are thinking here and then be able to communicate better and avoid saying redundant things, let me start by asking you an initial question about war itself.

Do you yourself think the United States should have fought Germany and Japan in WWII -- was it right to do so?

(Related aspect: Are you aware that a lot of women and children were killed in bombing, which was done with specific full awareness that it would kill those non-combatants? If not, please look up the "firebombing of Tokyo" and of Dresden.
For clarity, to attempt to avoid confusion, I'm not endorsing those firebombings, but instead, I'm asking you about them, about your own viewpoint.)

So, was war against Germany valid? And Japan?

If yes, why?

If no, why?

Is it correct to oppose wrongdoing with force, in your view? Policing -- do you agree policing is valid, with force, and sometimes deadly force?

If you think it's ok for a police officer to kill someone, and you also yourself think that death of this mortal body is the final real death, then how do you yourself justify your own viewpoint there?

I ask you a question that you seem very reluctant to answer and then you expect me to answer questions about what I think of the second world war and policemen who use deadly force.
I have opinions of those things, most certainly, but my opinion should in no way influence your answer to my question. It's a question that only requires a yes or no answer. A question that can only be answered by you.
After that, I will be more than happy to give my opinion on what you asked.

 

[Halbhh]

To make visible again the most central key part of all of these answers (about every aspect):

Because that God exists, there is no death that is real until after the Day of Judgement -- only the "second death" is a final real death, (for those for those that reject the Good (Romans 2:6-16); but most everyone has done enough wrong that they need help, a redeemer to restore them from their wrongs).

Christians are instructed (commanded):
Matthew 26:52 "Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him. "For all who draw the sword will die by the sword.

We are not to kill people.

(There is of course an important 2nd question: what about defending other people? This is a good question to ask, and has been the topic of some threads here, but I can answer it also, in a more brief way, if asked.)

 

[Par5]

To make visible again the most central key part of all of these answers (about every aspect):

Because that God exists, there is no death that is real until after the Day of Judgement -- only the "second death" is a final real death, (for those for those that reject the Good (Romans 2:6-16); but most everyone has done enough wrong that they need help, a redeemer to restore them from their wrongs).

Christians are instructed (commanded):
Matthew 26:52 "Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him. "For all who draw the sword will die by the sword.

We are not to kill people.

(There is of course an important 2nd question: what about defending other people? This is a good question to ask, and has been the topic of some threads here, but I can answer it also, in a more brief way, if asked.)

Thank you for your deja vu post. Still can't bring yourself to say killing helpless children in the case of the Amalekites was wrong.
"For all who draw the sword will die by the sword."
I can see it now, the Amalekite 1st Light Infant Division, swords glistening in the sun attired in battle diapers facing the advancing Israelites. They were no match for the battle-hardened Israelites and they were totally wiped out.
I suppose they had it coming though. If only those infants had kept their sword in its scabbard!




.

.

 

[Halbhh]

Thank you for your deja vu post. Still can't bring yourself to say killing helpless children in the case of the Amalekites was wrong.
"For all who draw the sword will die by the sword."
I can see it now, the Amalekite 1st Light Infant Division, swords glistening in the sun attired in battle diapers facing the advancing Israelites. They were no match for the battle-hardened Israelites and they were totally wiped out.
I suppose they had it coming though. If only those infants had kept their sword in its scabbard!




.

.

I'm "Christian". Christians are commanded not to murder or assault and so on. Because I believe, I aim to follow Christ's instructions.

More, I understand His words are the only true and complete gauge of what is "right and wrong".

I can't think of how to say that any more clearly.

God doesn't kill those here in mortal bodies though when people here die in the hundred different ways they die, whether by sword or famine or cancer or flood. He transports and/or awakens.

Example:

All the people that 'died' in the great Flood simply went to a place for spirits that is a prison, until Christ came to them:

18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built.
1 Peter 3 NIV

When God Himself defeated Israel's opponents in the actions He instructed Israel to do -- where sometimes they were to even destroy the animals and even all goods and objects, those are essentially removals meant to erase a culture. God removed a lot of people in order to wipe out cultures steeped in child sacrifice -- burning children in fires.

But all of the children are alive.