Your Core Belief(s)!

[cvanwey]

@cvanwey,

I'm mostly being silly, of course, but I really just don't see any reason to approach such a holistic topic using percentages.

It was really pretty simple actually, the Bible explains what I encounter (objectively and subjectively) on this little ole planet we call earth.

I disagree with your given assessment. If I was to demonstrate that your own personal 'moral compass' does not align with all of what is written in the Bible, though you would have no choice but to reconcile this new found conclusion, you would still believe. And the reason you would still believe, is because you assert you have been contacted from the Holy Spirit --- which acts as your be-all-end-all reason

"It's really pretty simple actually."

 

[Tone]

I disagree with your given assessment. If I was to demonstrate that your own personal 'moral compass' does not align with all of what is written in the Bible, though you would have no choice but to reconcile this new found conclusion, you would still believe. And the reason you would still believe, is because you assert you have been contacted from the Holy Spirit --- which acts as your be-all-end-all reason

"It's really pretty simple actually."

If this is the case...what is the point?

It is really simple actually. We believe in Him Who created us and what are we? We are People...with, personalities.

He did say that we are made in His image and, what do you know, He Is a Person.

So, of course meeting Him person to Person is the "core belief".

Is this problematic for you?

 

[Tone]

If I claim to know Him on only some abstract statistical level...what would I really be talking about here...

Some kind of AI, I would say.

 

[cvanwey]

If this is the case...what is the point?

It is really simple actually. We believe in Him Who created us and what are we? We are People...with, personalities.

He did say that we are made in His image and, what do you know, He Is a Person.

So, of course meeting Him person to Person is the "core belief".

Is this problematic for you?

The 'problematic' part is that I do not believe you. And furthermore, I seem to be jumping through hoops, to spoon feed you ways to demonstrate your assertion, that you [actually communicate with your perceived God], and you thus far dance all around it....

Thus, I will return with the exact same question to you...

"If this is the case...what is the point?" I asked for a very specific request in the OP, and you make much effort to respond, but NOT to what I'm asking...

 

[cvanwey]

If I claim to know Him on only some abstract statistical level...what would I really be talking about here...

Some kind of AI, I would say.

Disagree. Take the topic of 'faith', for example... There exists varying degrees and levels of faith in anything, right? Or do you disagree?

 

[Tone]

I do not believe you

You don't believe that I met the Creator?

dance all around it

Like David!

 

[Tone]

Disagree. Take the topic of 'faith', for example... There exists varying degrees and levels of faith in anything, right? Or do you disagree?

The Bible speaks of weaker faith and stronger faith...little to great...so, yeah, I'd say I agree.

 

[cvanwey]

You don't believe that I met the Creator?

Nope. Anyone can assert they speak to the dead, to angels, to god(s), to alien(s), to ghost(s), to spirit(s), etc... I harbor doubt to all, including yours.

This is all you are doing here. Making mere assertions. A dime a dozen. And news flash... There exists many whom claim they speak to differing, or mutually exclusive entities, to that of yours. How am I, the one receiving these assertions, to distinguish the actual from the mistaken?

Let me further clarify.... I do believe you believe you speak to God. BUT, I do not believe you are actually speaking to God. I instead find it quite plausible, that you are mistaken, and that there exists an infinite number of alternative possible conclusions.

So, if you please, though I appreciate you engaging in this thread, it would sure be nice if you were to instead actually engage what I am asking. Essentially, how do you know you are speaking to God, verses the many plausible alternative conclusions?

Your given responses to this question, thus far, beg more questions; due to ambiguity...

You can start by re-reading the OP.

Thanks

 

[cvanwey]

The Bible speaks of weaker faith and stronger faith...little to great...so, yeah, I'd say I agree.

Great. I'm not AI, right? And I can tell you that I have <1% 'faith' that Jesus was born of a virgin. You already know why

 

[Tone]

Anyone can assert they speak to the dead, to angels, to god(s), to alien(s), to ghost(s), to spirit(s), etc...

And do they have propositional revelation as well?

A dime a dozen

A dime having all the qualities necessary to indicate superb minting in a real and Divine Press.

How am I, the one receiving these assertions, to distinguish to actual from the mistaken?

Become acquainted with the real and then the fakes will be evident.

there exists an infinite number of alternative possible conclusions.

With an infinite number of connections with this present reality?

, how do you know you are speaking to God, verses the many plausible alternative conclusions?

Because I have propositional revelation aka The Holy Bible.

 

[Tone]

Great. I'm not AI, right? And I can tell you that I have <1% 'faith' that Jesus was born of a virgin. You already know why

I don't know whether you are AI or not.

You sure use a lot of artificial constructs in your thought process.

I don't see why many people like to be as machine headed as possible, these days. It's a step down and not up.

*When you attempt to analyze faith, you do indeed snatch the seeds away from the soil.

 

[cvanwey]

At this point @Tone, I'm just going to keep redirecting you to the OP. You appear to be playing word games to avoid an uncomfortable line of questioning. You really do not want your beliefs challenged. In the mean time, we can continue with these side-discussions, for which you keep using as a deflection tool.

And do they have propositional revelation as well?

In regards to the religious claims alone, they look to be just as circular, in their logic, as you demonstrate to be with your claims. Is that all it takes to have 'propositional revelation'? Because, quite frankly, you continue to give ambiguous answers.

A dime having all the qualities necessary to indicate superb minting in a real and Divine Press.

Kool

Become acquainted with the real and then the fakes will be evident.

I'm involved in the 'real' right now, if we have a shared reality, that is.... i.e. - We are engaging and exchanging via technology on the CF website, aren't we? The 'fake' looks to be, thus far, your claim that you speak to a creator. Please demonstrate my assertion, that your assertion is indeed 'fake', to be false.

With an infinite number of connections with this present reality?

You either are speaking to God, or, something else. A true dichotomy. --> A or not A.

Something else, or not A in your case, can be virtually anything; as long as it does not involve actually speaking to God

Because I have propositional revelation aka The Holy Bible.

In regards to the religious claims alone, all look to be just as circular, in their logic, as you continue to demonstrate to be with your claims. Is that all it takes to have 'propositional revelation'?

 

[cvanwey]

I don't know whether you are AI or not.

You sure use a lot of artificial constructs in your thought process.

I don't see why many people like to be has machine headed as possible, these days. It's a step down and not up.

*When you attempt to analyze faith, you do indeed snatch the seeds away from the soil.

You find it a 'step down' to simply apply a percentage value to your faith? Seems as though using number values might be a quite rational way to determine whom has more, or enough, faith in a claim. Unless you want to count the 'reallys'.

@Tone really really has a lot of faith

person X really has a lot of faith

 

[Tone]

You appear to be playing word games

Funny, things appear similar to us...just flipped around.

You really do not want your beliefs challenged

Not by a bot...

they look to be

Profound...

Kool

Aid?

looks to, thus far, be

Again...profound.

Please demonstrate my assertion, that your assertion is indeed 'fake', to be false.

Sure, if you first tell me who's...on first...?

You either are speaking to God, or, something else. A true dichotomy. --> A or not A.

Something else, or not A in your case, can be virtually anything; as long as it does not involve actually speaking to God

Abstract deepities...

In regards to the religious claims alone, all look to be just as circular, in their logic, as you continue to demonstrate to be with your claims. Is that all it takes to have 'propositional revelation'?

Broken record...anyone...?

 

[Tone]

You find it a 'step down' to simply apply a percentage value to your faith?

Yeah, can you look out your window and point out a percentage to me?

I can point out a mustard seed that is faith and we can talk about the soil of the heart and whether it is stone hard or broken up and ready to receive the water that is the Word and the sun light that is Truth.

Or we can speak about the birds that will snatch up the seed so that it doesn't take root.

Matthew 13
"18Consider, then, the parable of the sower: 19When anyone hears the message of the kingdom but does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is the seed sown along the path."


*So my question to you is what happened to the seed that was sown in your core?

 

[Tone]

Matthew 13
"18Consider, then, the parable of the sower: 19When anyone hears the message of the kingdom but does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is the seed sown along the path."


*So my question to you is what happened to the seed that was sown in your core?

Was it it snatched away, was there no root, was it choked out...what?

 

[Paul4JC]

To the OP....

Never knew much anything about Jesus Christ up until I was 19. (sparing the details) Found myself with a Gospel of John. Just read it over and over for many days (about 10-15 minutes a day). Read it like literature, or the newspaper. Just read it. Came to believe everything Jesus Christ was saying and doing…..no one I ever knew talked like him or did the things he did. I believed him. My life was radically changed, about a month later is when I actually met Christian people. (Let me clarify that I’ve didn't put my faith in Christianity or even Christians, but in Christ alone, so don’t label me.) As I young believer, I gave up all my possessions and followed him to foreign lands for about a 10 year span. That was 36 years ago. I’ve had my up’s and downs over the years, and have not arrived, but the Lord Jesus has always been there for me. Never once let me down. Never experienced your list per se, but whatever works for you, take it. If you really want it, it’s not complex, otherwise don’t waste your time, stay in your cloud of questions (though I pray not). Did you read the news today? Did you believe it? God Bless.

 

[cvanwey]

Funny, things appear similar to us...just flipped around.



Not by a bot...



Profound...



Aid?



Again...profound.



Sure, if you first tell me who's...on first...?



Abstract deepities...



Broken record...anyone...?

This conversation is proving to be a complete waste of time. You have no intention to engage the OP. But, for some strange reason, you want to issue responses?.?.?.?

You also again demonstrate the improper use of a deepity.

As you would state, it's very simple...

A true dichotomy is (A, and not A).

In your case, we can build a simple logic tool.

A = you speak to God
Not A = you don't

You claim (A), I claim (Not A).

Moving forward, what's MORE likely? A, or not A????? Not A can include a copious amount of alternative answers....

Well, being that we have multiple claims for competing god(s) in existence, it's quite fair to say they could not all be right, right? And furthermore, it's also fair to say that even if we were to confirm that one supreme being exists, do we see a set standard for which God interacts with his creation? NO. This is presented in the OP (1-6). Maybe a creator exists, but does not communicate with his creation at all. Maybe this god is no longer around. Maybe this god only speaks to certain people. Or maybe, JUST MAYBE, all are mistaken, including you. Unless you are under the assumption that ALL, whom claim revelation, are actually receiving revelation?

For example, go to a Baptist church, then mosey on over to a Pentecostal church. You will notice God's contact is quite different, based upon the type of church you enter. Now go to a Hindu place of worship. Then try a Mosque. Or how about if you were to try the church of Scientology.

Being that we have millions/billions, whom claim revelation, and at least some are likely mistaken, how do you know YOU are not one of the mistaken; especially in light of the fact we have countless opposing claims to yours, which also directly conflict with yours.

 

[Tone]

This conversation is proving to be a complete waste of time. You have no intention to engage the OP. But, for some strange reason, you want to issue responses?.?.?.?

You also again demonstrate the improper use of a deepity.

As you would state, it's very simple...

A true dichotomy is (A, and not A).

In your case, we can build a simple logic tool.

A = you speak to God
Not A = you don't

You claim (A), I claim (Not A).

Moving forward, what's MORE likely? A, or not A????? Not A can include a copious amount of alternative answers....

Well, being that we have multiple claims for competing god(s) in existence, it's quite fair to say they could not all be right, right? And furthermore, it's also fair to say that even if we were to confirm that one supreme being exists, do we see a set standard for which God interacts with his creation? NO. This is presented in the OP (1-6). Maybe a creator exists, but does not communicate with his creation at all. Maybe this god is no longer around. Maybe this god only speaks to certain people. Or maybe, JUST MAYBE, all are mistaken, including you. Unless you are under the assumption that ALL, whom claim revelation, are actually receiving revelation?

For example, go to a Baptist church, then mosey on over to a Pentecostal church. You will notice God's contact is quite different, based upon the type of church you enter. Now go to a Hindu place of worship. Then try a Mosque. Or how about if you were to try the church of Scientology.

Being that we have millions/billions, whom claim revelation, and at least some are likely mistaken, how do you know YOU are not one of the mistaken; especially in light of the fact we have countless opposing claims to yours, which also directly conflict with yours.

Ephesians 2:8
"8For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not by works, so that no one can boast.…"

(Emphasis mine)

It is a gift. That reference to "works" also includes mental gymnastics.

 

[cvanwey]

To the OP....

Never knew much anything about Jesus Christ up until I was 19. (sparing the details) Found myself with a Gospel of John. Just read it over and over for many days (about 10-15 minutes a day). Read it like literature, or the newspaper. Just read it. Came to believe everything Jesus Christ was saying and doing…..no one I ever knew talked like him or did the things he did. I believed him. My life was radically changed, about a month later is when I actually met Christian people. (Let me clarify that I’ve didn't put my faith in Christianity or even Christians, but in Christ alone, so don’t label me.) As I young believer, I gave up all my possessions and followed him to foreign lands for about a 10 year span. That was 36 years ago. I’ve had my up’s and downs over the years, and have not arrived, but the Lord Jesus has always been there for me. Never once let me down. Never experienced your list per se, but whatever works for you, take it. If you really want it, it’s not complex, otherwise don’t waste your time, stay in your cloud of questions (though I pray not). Did you read the news today? Did you believe it? God Bless.

Thank you for your response. I won't ask you questions, because it would appear you might not want to answer them. But please understand what I'm reading...

- You believe due to repetition
- You believe because the message was unique
- You believe because the book changed your thinking in some way
- You accept the hits and ignore the misses

I doubt a truth claim is verified, using such methods.