YES or NO: Do The 10 Commandments Still Apply To Us Today? (2)

[visionary]

There are three times that it is written that God wrote with His finger..

The Ten Words on stone
The judgement on the wall of babylon
In the sand before those who want punishment inflicted and they are still full of sin themselves.

 

[BrightCandle]

You are assuming that anything written by God's finger must last forever. This is pure assumption with no biblical evidence whatsoever to support this view. Where is the biblical evidence? What God wrote with His finger is not evidence.

That which was written was the letter of the law. We now live by the Spirit of the law. The letter is now obsolete.

He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant - — not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life...if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone (the 10 commandments), came with glory...will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious?...2 Cor 3:6-8.

God might have written the latter of 10 commandments with His finger, but we do not rely on the written letter anymore. We now rely on the Living Spirit; we rely on Christ.

This is not New Age theology; this is biblical facts.

The fact is that the 10 Commandments will be the standard in the judgment, see the book of James. The fact is that that John saw the ark of the covenant in the heavenly sanctuary as recorded in the book of Revelation. And what is the contained in the ark of the covenant? The 10 Commandments!

 

[BrightCandle]

Revelation says "the commandments". It does not say the 10 commandments.

Why do SDAs keep putting a 10 where the bible does not have a 10?

Don't you know you shouldn't add to the bible?

What other commandments could they be? Would God's remnant be those who SIN and disregard his commandments? No. They are those who receive the mark of the beast!

 

[Doveaman]

There are three times that it is written that God wrote with His finger..

The Ten Words on stone
The judgement on the wall of babylon
In the sand before those who want punishment inflicted and they are still full of sin themselves.

Yes, it seems as though every time God writes with His fingers it's associated with some kind of punishment.

 

[sunlover1]

He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant - — not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life...if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone (the 10 commandments), came with glory...will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious?...2 Cor 3:6-8.

Word

The fact is that the 10 Commandments will be the standard in the judgment, see the book of James.

Which verse?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

There are three times that it is written that God wrote with His finger..

The Ten Words on stone
The judgement on the wall of babylon
In the sand before those who want punishment inflicted and they are still full of sin themselves.

Wonder if it could be those in Reve 16:21

John 8:6 This yet they said trying Him, that they may be having to be accusing of Him. The yet Jesus down-stooping to the finger Wrote into the ground,
7 As yet they persisted asking Him, He up-bends and said toward them "The sinless-one of ye first the stone on her let be casting"!
8 And again down-stooping He Wrote into the ground.

Reve 16:21 And great Hail as talent-weight is descending out of the Heaven upon the Men and blaspheme the God the Men out of the blow of the Hail, that great is the blow of it/her, tremendous. [Ezekiel 38:22]

John 8 and Jesus writing in the Dirt - Page 6 - Christian Forums
John 8 and Jesus writing in the Dirt

 

[Doveaman]

The fact is that the 10 Commandments will be the standard in the judgment, see the book of James.

The whole book?

Would you be so kind as to show me the verse, or even the chapter. Or maybe you can explain the book in your own words.

The fact is that that John saw the ark of the covenant in the heavenly sanctuary as recorded in the book of Revelation. And what is the contained in the ark of the covenant? The 10 Commandments!

What John saw in heaven was the eternal spiritual ark with the eternal spiritual and living law of Christ, and not a written law of 10 commandments.

The shadow copy of 10 commandments that Moses lugged around with for forty years in the desert are not up there. God got rid of those along with the ark.

Why do you think no one can find the ark? It is for the same reason no one could find the body of Moses.

Moses represented the 10 commandment law, so did the ark. God buried them both somewhere so no one can ever rely on them again.

The lesson is that we are not to rely on the dead and buried 10 commandment law of Moses, but on the living spiritual law of Christ.

 

[BrightCandle]

Yes, it seems as though every time God writes with His fingers it's associated with some kind of punishment.

Yes, there are consequences to SIN. Which should behove all Christians to not downplay the importance of obedience to the 10 Commandments.

 

[BrightCandle]

Word


Which verse?

James 2:10 & 12.

 

[BrightCandle]

The whole book?

Would you be so kind as to show me the verse, or even the chapter. Or maybe you can explain the book in your own words.
What John saw in heaven was the eternal spiritual ark with the eternal spiritual and living law of Christ, and not a written law of 10 commandments.

The shadow copy of 10 commandments that Moses lugged around with for forty years in the desert are not up there. God got rid of those along with the ark.

Why do you think no one can find the ark? It is for the same reason no one could find the body of Moses.

Moses represented the 10 commandment law, so did the ark. God buried them both somewhere so no one can ever rely on them again.

The lesson is that we are not to rely on the dead and buried 10 commandment law of Moses, but on the living spiritual law of Christ.

Doveman: You need to do more in depth study before you make such claims. You should know the texts that I'm referring to already, James is not a long book and its not hard to understand. Look at chapter 2 and verses 10 & 12; there James clearly shows that the Ten Commandments will be used in the judgment.

Regarding the ark of the covenant in heaven, have you not read in the book of the Hebrews where the author points out that God showed Moses the heavenly sanctuary and had him pattern the earthly sanctuary after what he was shown in heaven. See Hebrews 8:5, where it clearly states that Moses was to make a "copy" of the heavenly things.

 

[onwingsaseagles]

Yes

 

[Doveaman]

Doveman: You need to do more in depth study before you make such claims. You should know the texts that I'm referring to already, James is not a long book and its not hard to understand. Look at chapter 2 and verses 10 & 12; there James clearly shows that the Ten Commandments will be used in the judgment. .

James 2:8 is describing the royal law found in Scripture, and not the written law found on stone.

If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, "Love your neighbor as yourself," you are doing right...James 2:8.

The royal law is love, not the 10 commandments.

The royal law of love is not a written law, it is a Living law revealed through the Spoken Word.

Verse 10 tells us that if we disobey what is spoken by the Living law, then we are disobeying all that is spoken by the Living law.

Verse 11 does not say ‘For he who wrote’. It says "For he who said, ‘Do not commit adultery,’ also said, ‘Do not murder’...

...It is a spoken law, not a written one...

...If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker"...

...We become a royal lawbreaker of love, and not a 10 commandment law breaker of rules.

Verse 12, “Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom”...

...At the judgment we will be judge by Christ, the Living law, and not by 10 commandments, the written law.

It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery...Gal 5:1.

Christ is the Royal law of freedom that gives us freedom. The 10 commandments is a law of slavery that brings slavery.

Before...faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ...Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law...Gal 3:23-25.

Regarding the ark of the covenant in heaven, have you not read in the book of the Hebrews where the author points out that God showed Moses the heavenly sanctuary and had him pattern the earthly sanctuary after what he was shown in heaven. See Hebrews 8:5, where it clearly saws that Moses was to make a "copy" of the heavenly things.

Moses was not taken into heaven and shown the heavenly sanctuary.

Moses was given a pattern. A pattern is not real. A pattern is a pattern. Moses made an earthly sanctuary according to the pattern. He did not make it according to the actual heavenly sanctuary in heaven which is spiritual.

Heaven is spiritual. There is no spiritual gold, or spiritual wood, or spiritual stones in heaven. Those things only exist in material form here on earth. He was given a pattern, and not the actual heavenly sanctuary.

 

[Stryder06]

Moses was not taken into heaven and shown the heavenly sanctuary.

Moses was given a pattern. A pattern is not real. A pattern is a pattern. Moses made an earthly sanctuary according to the pattern. He did not make it according to the actual heavenly sanctuary in heaven which is spiritual.

Heaven is spiritual. There is no spiritual gold, or spiritual wood, or spiritual stones in heaven. Those things only exist in material form here on earth. He was given a pattern, and not the actual heavenly sanctuary.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree. The bible says that the pattern Moses was given was based off of the heavenly sanctuary. God gave Him the pattern to use because it was meant to be symbolic of the heavenly sanctuary service.

You are totally correct that there is no thing as spiritual material, at least from what we know. But the bible is clear that there is a sanctuary in heaven in which Christ works as our High Priest.

 

[Doveaman]

I'm sorry but I have to disagree. The bible says that the pattern Moses was given was based off of the heavenly sanctuary. God gave Him the pattern to use because it was meant to be symbolic of the heavenly sanctuary service.

Yes, it was symbolic, and not real.

You are totally correct that there is no thing as spiritual material, at least from what we know. But the bible is clear that there is a sanctuary in heaven in which Christ works as our High Priest.

I agree there is a sanctuary in heaven, but it's the real spiritual sanctuary of Christ, and not the symbolic sanctuary of 10 commandments.

 

[joelhall]

"YES or NO: Do The 10 Commandments Still Apply To Us Today?"

yes.

god be with you.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Yes, it was symbolic, and not real.
I agree there is a sanctuary in heaven, but it's the real spiritual sanctuary of Christ, and not the symbolic sanctuary of 10 commandments.

Reve 15:8 And is being replete the Sanctuary of smoke out of the Glory of the God and out of the power of Him.
And no one was *able to be entering into the Sanctuary until should be being finished the seven blows of the seven Messengers.

Revelation 16:17 And the seventh Messenger did pour out his vial to the air, and there came forth a great Voice from the Sanctuary of the Heaven, from the Throne saying "it hath become"!

http://www.christianforums.com/t6613273/
The Voice from the Throne/Sanctuary Rev 16

 

[Stryder06]

Yes, it was symbolic, and not real.
I agree there is a sanctuary in heaven, but it's the real spiritual sanctuary of Christ, and not the symbolic sanctuary of 10 commandments.

The bible doesn't teach that. It teaches that Christ is our great High Priest and is at work in the sanctuary right now, working on our behalf.

And who said the 10 commandments were a symbol of the sanctuary?

 

[Doveaman]

yes.

god be with you.

No.

God be with you, too.

Mat 5:17-19

17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

The Law being described here is not the 10 commandments, but the Torah, the entire writings of Moses, which included God's command as to how God wanted human excrement to be disposed of. That command is now obsolete.

How?

Because Christ fulfilled it.

The 10 commandments are fulfilled the same way and are now obsolete also.

18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. .

Again, Christ is not describing the 10 commandments here, but the entire writings of Moses and the writings of the Prophets. Christ fulfilled or accomplished all that was written in them about Him.

Notice Christ said that nothing in the Law would disappear “until everything is accomplished.”

Well, Christ has already accomplished everything in the Law, so the things in the Law can now disappear. They were only to remain “until everything is accomplished.”

19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven." .

Notice that Christ did not say 'the least of these 10 commandments'. He said “the least of these commandments”. There is no 10 included in the text.

In addition, “these commandments” which He described in the verses that followed are as follow:

Thou shalt not be angry with anyone unjustly,
Thou shalt not look upon a woman lustfully,
Thou shalt not divorce your spouse unfaithfully,
Thou shalt turn the other cheek sacrificially, etc, etc, etc...Mat 5:21-48.

Christ says nothing about 10 commandments. And neither should we.

 

[Doveaman]

The bible doesn't teach that. It teaches that Christ is our great High Priest and is at work in the sanctuary right now, working on our behalf.

"In" and "out" are not relevant terms in heaven. Heaven is spiritual. It is not time bound or space bound, so "in" and "out" has no relevance. God Himself is the sanctuary.

And who said the 10 commandments were a symbol of the sanctuary?

In the earthly sanctuary the 10 commandments were 'sat' on by God while they were in the ark. They were in the the ark in the middle of the sanctuary.

Christ is in the middle of the heavenly sanctuary. The 10 commandments were only a symbol of Him.

 

[Stryder06]

"In" and "out" are not relevant terms in heaven. Heaven is spiritual. It is not time bound or space bound, so "in" and "out" has no relevance. God Himself is the sanctuary.
In the earthly sanctuary the 10 commandments were 'sat' on by God while they were in the ark. They were in the the ark in the middle of the sanctuary.

Christ is in the middle of the heavenly sanctuary. The 10 commandments were only a symbol of Him.

You're making assumptions about heaven that the bible in no way supports. Heaven is not a "spiritual" place. It is a real place. Christ is literally in the sanctuary because that is where He is. He is physically there. Jesus said that in His Father's house were many mansion's and that if it were not so He would have told us. He was talking about actual physical dwelling places for us.

Remember that the book of Revelation tells us that Satan and his angels were cast out of heaven.

No where does the bible say that God is our sanctuary. We were told to build one for Him so that He could dwell with us. And God did not sit on the 10 commandments. They were placed under the mercy seat. The angels looked down upon them with reverence. In other words you could see the mercy of God resting over the law of God.

The commandments are not a symbol of Christ. The lamb without spot or blemish was a symbol of Christ. The serpent raised up on a pole was a symbol of Christ. The law is a reflection of the character of Christ.