YES or NO: Do The 10 Commandments Still Apply To Us Today? (2)

[Doveaman]

Doveman: I don't know where you get your theology from, but think about this: If everyone on earth followed your premise, when it comes to God's law, we would have an awful lawless planet, much worse than it already is. Remember, the children of Israel suffered judgment when they broke God's law in rebellion. That's why it says that they didn't enter into the "rest" that God wanted to give them. The nation of Israel under Moses, Joshua, and even David rebelled against God and his Holy Law, and therefore did not experience God's grace and rest. The same is true of the theology that you are proposing it is cheap grace.

I think it is this poor reply that is cheap, so cheap I don’t quite understand what you mean.

What do you mean by “The nation of Israel under Moses, Joshua, and even David...did not experience God's grace and rest.”?

Is this rest you speak of different from the seventh-day rest they observed under Moses and the promise land rest they entered under Joshua?

Israel observed the seventh-day rest under Moses, they entered the promise land rest under Joshua, and they continued to observe the seventh-day rest in the promised land under David. But Hebrews speaks of a rest that occurs on “another day”. What “day” is that exactly, do you know?

There is no doubt there is "another day" of rest as spoken of in Hebrews which Israel never experienced, so it is not the seventh-day sabbath rest which Israel experienced under Moses. So, what rest is this exactly, do you know?

 

[Stryder06]

I think it is this poor reply that is cheap, so cheap I don’t quite understand what you mean.

What do you mean by “The nation of Israel under Moses, Joshua, and even David...did not experience God's grace and rest.”?

Is this rest you speak of different from the seventh-day rest they observed under Moses and the promise land rest they entered under Joshua?

Israel observed the seventh-day rest under Moses, they entered the promise land rest under Joshua, and they continued to observe the seventh-day rest in the promised land under David. But Hebrews speaks of a rest that occurs on “another day”. What “day” is that exactly, do you know?

There is no doubt there is "another day" of rest as spoken of in Hebrews which Israel never experienced, so it is not the seventh-day sabbath rest which Israel experienced under Moses. So, what rest is this exactly, do you know?

Although this question wasn't directed to me, I'd like to say that I believe that this day of rest spoken of in Hebrews is talking about the rest we will receive on that day when Christ returns.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by BrightCandle Doveman: I don't know where you get your theology from.........

I don't know where either one of you get your theology from

I say safely say without a doubt they do not get it from the RC Catechism

 

[Tu Es Petrus]

I'd say thats a safe bet

 

[Jesus Is the Reason]

No. There are only 9 commandments a Christian must follow. The only one that was NOT carried over into the N.T. was the 4th commandment. Christians are free to keep any day for their Sabbath.

Romans 14:5-6 (KJV)
14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it.


Galatians 4:8-11 (KJV)
4:8 Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.

9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.

11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

Colossians 2:16 (KJV)
2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:



Jesus is our Sabbath. And he gives us rest.

Blessings.
Jesus Is the Reason

 

[Harry3142]

In all fairness, there is a standard by which Christians are to live. But that standard is not found in what we refer to as The Old Testament; rather, it is to be found in The New Testament. I refer to it as 'The Christians Code of Conduct':

"So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratifiy the desires of the sinful nature. For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law."

"The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God."

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other." (Galatians 5:16-26,NIV)

The old covenant ended with Jesus Christ's death and resurrection. Its laws ended with it. As Christians we are to 'keep in step with the Spirit', who is the person who is really doing the work. We are merely his instruments. And this work is far more than a list of do's and don't's; it is tantamount to a spiritual heart transplant. The Holy Spirit does away with the narcissism and arrogance that makes up so much of the person, and instead instills in that person the compassion and concern for others that more closely mirrors God's compassion and concern for us. Only then can we become the instruments that God needs for us to be in order for him to accomplish his work through us.

But irregardless of how much God is able to accomplish through us, the lion's share of the credit goes to God. We may get a reward for what has been done, but our attitude is to be that we did not earn one (Luke 17:7-10). We are to do the work because it is there and it is to be done. And once we have successfully completed that task, we are to understand that we were the 'hammer and nails' of a skilled carpenter, who used us in like manner to do his work. The credit is to be seen as his, not ours.

 

[MamaZ]

The very day of rest comes when one believe into Christ Jesus for It is finished. He has paid the price and we rest in What He has done.. We enter into His rest with Belief into Christ..

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The very day of rest comes when one believe into Christ Jesus for It is finished. He has paid the price and we rest in What He has done.. We enter into His rest with Belief into Christ..

Sounds like those in Reve 14:11 could be symbolizing the sabbatarian SDAs

Matthew 11:29 "Take! My yoke upon ye, and be learning from Me.
That meek am-I and humble to the heart, and ye shall be finding Rest/ana-pausin <372> to the souls of ye"

Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of the tormenting of them is ascending into Ages to-Ages.
And not they are having Rest/ana-pausin <372> day and night [Matt 11:29/Hebrew 4:3]

Although this question wasn't directed to me, I'd like to say that I believe that this day of rest spoken of in Hebrews is talking about the rest we will receive on that day when Christ returns.

 

[Doveaman]

Although this question wasn't directed to me, I'd like to say that I believe that this day of rest spoken of in Hebrews is talking about the rest we will receive on that day when Christ returns.

Is this your best reply?

It would be nice if you would provide some scriptural details as to why you believe this.

What scriptural evidence do you have to support this idea?

I guess it's easier for us to explain things away when we can't explain them.

This usually happens when our belief-system prevents us from seeing, as was the case with the Jews.

Do you know that the Jews are still looking forward to things that are already accomplished in Christ?

Paul tell us this happens when we are immersed to deep in Torah and not immersed enough in Christ.

"But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant (words of the 10 commandments) is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away.

Even to this day when Moses (Torah) is read, a veil covers their hearts. But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away"...2 Cor 3:14-16.

You need to remove the veil, Stryder, remove the veil....

 

[BrightCandle]

No. There are only 9 commandments a Christian must follow. The only one that was NOT carried over into the N.T. was the 4th commandment. Christians are free to keep any day for their Sabbath.

Romans 14:5-6 (KJV)
14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it.


Galatians 4:8-11 (KJV)
4:8 Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.

9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.

11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

Colossians 2:16 (KJV)
2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:



Jesus is our Sabbath. And he gives us rest.

Blessings.
Jesus Is the Reason

You have quoted out of context the common proof texts. Note, that there is NO new commandment from Jesus saying that Sunday is the Sabbath. And you say that Christian are free to keep any day as a Sabbath. That is not the kind of God that I serve who changes his mind after He writes something in stone, and then doesn't tell anyone that a new law has been given. The people who will finally be saved as described in the book of Revelation are those who love Jesus and keep his commandments, and it would make sense that the commandment that define those who are truly doing just that would be Christians who are keeping all 10 in the last days. Those who don't will be giving homage to the Antichrist!

 

[bbbbbbb]

One of the grave errors that some individuals fall into is the concept that Jesus came to give us a reformed set of commandments whereby we can please God if we keep them. By that I mean that the view is that Jesus did not fulfill or abolish the Law at all, but reorganized it somehow to make it easier for mankind to keep.

The underlying assumption is that we are required to keep some sorts of commandments in order to be pleasing to God. God somehow needs our obedience. Otherwise, we are unworthy of God's love and grace. This could be taken either in the context of meriting our salvation or in the context of keeping it and also earning rewards. God thus becomes the great statistician in the sky who forever keeps records of who does what in obedience to His reformed commandments.

The facts of the matter, as recorded in the New Testament, are radically different. We can never merit our salvation through our obedience to any commandments. We can never merit God's love and favor through our obedience to any commandments. God grace is freely bestowed upon all who trust in Christ. Christ has provided a new covenant through his blood (his atoning death on the cross). It is not a revised format of the old covenant, but is radically new and different. When He said, "It is finished." He meant what He said. The work that saves was finished on the cross once and for all who will believe. We cannot repeat it or add to it. It is perfect and is perfectly accepted by God.

 

[Doveaman]

You have quoted out of context the common proof texts. Note, that there is NO new commandment from Jesus saying that Sunday is the Sabbath. And you say that Christian are free to keep any day as a Sabbath. That is not the kind of God that I serve who changes his mind after He writes something in stone, and then doesn't tell anyone that a new law has been given. The people who will finally be saved as described in the book of Revelation are those who love Jesus and keep his commandments, and it would make sense that the commandment that define those who are truly doing just that would be Christians who are keeping all 10 in the last days. Those who don't will be giving homage to the Antichrist!

Revelation says "the commandments". It does not say the 10 commandments.

Why do SDAs keep putting a 10 where the bible does not have a 10?

Don't you know you shouldn't add to the bible?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Revelation says "the commandments". It does not say the 10 commandments.

Why do SDAs keep putting a 10 where the bible does not have a 10?

Don't you know you shouldn't add to the bible?

It is in the plural in Revelation but it could be anwhere from 2 to....._____

Reve 14:12 Here the endurance of the Saints is, here the ones keeping/throunteV <5083> (5723) the commandments of the God and the Faith of Jesus.

Reve 22:14 Happy the ones doing the commandments of Him that it shall be the authority of them upon the wood of the life and the gates they may be entering into the City.

 

[Stryder06]

Revelation says "the commandments". It does not say the 10 commandments.

Why do SDAs keep putting a 10 where the bible does not have a 10?

Don't you know you shouldn't add to the bible?

Because those 10 are the law of God. Those ten are the only commandments given for God that apply to every living being, from creation to the end of time, and beyond. And those 10 are what is under attack, the sabbath specifically.

 

[Doveaman]

Because those 10 are the law of God. Those ten are the only commandments given for God that apply to every living being, from creation to the end of time, and beyond. And those 10 are what is under attack, the sabbath specifically.

Only in your dreams, Stryder, only in your dreams.....

Will you please stop adding a 10 where the bible does not have a 10.

Thank you.

 

[Stryder06]

Only in your dreams, Stryder, only in your dreams.....

Will you please stop adding a 10 where the bible does not have a 10.

Thank you.

Not in my dreams...We're not adding anything to the bible.

If i'm known to my friends as Stryder (which i'm not) and I say that friend 1 can go to the store. When friend 2 says to friend 1, where are you going, and friend 1 says "To the store for Rick." Would friend 1 make any sense in saying "You can't go because Rick never said you could!"

It's the same principle. The law of God is the 10 commandments. Thus when the bible says the law of God or the commandments of God, we know it's refering to the 10. The words are interchangable, but the subject is the same.

 

[Doveaman]

Not in my dreams...We're not adding anything to the bible.

If i'm known to my friends as Stryder (which i'm not) and I say that friend 1 can go to the store. When friend 2 says to friend 1, where are you going, and friend 1 says "To the store for Rick." Would friend 1 make any sense in saying "You can't go because Rick never said you could!"

It's the same principle. The law of God is the 10 commandments. Thus when the bible says the law of God or the commandments of God, we know it's refering to the 10. The words are interchangable, but the subject is the same.

This analogy only works if 'Stryder' and 'Rick' are the same person, but if they are not the same person it will make no sense.

God eternal law and the 10 commandments are not the same.

The 10 commandments is a written letter; God eternal law is a living Spirit. The 10 commandments has a beginning and an end; God's eternal law has no beginning or end. The 10 commandments can be packaged; God's eternal law cannot be packaged.

Anyone who thinks a living Spirit that is eternal can be packaged into the number 10 don't quite understand what God's eternal law is.

 

[BrightCandle]

The very day of rest comes when one believe into Christ Jesus for It is finished. He has paid the price and we rest in What He has done.. We enter into His rest with Belief into Christ..

If you apply that same principle to the other 9 commandments, every kind of sin could be justified--adultery, murder, stealing, using the Lord's name in vain, etc, etc.

 

[BrightCandle]

This analogy only works if 'Stryder' and 'Rick' are the same person, but if they are not the same person it will make no sense.

God eternal law and the 10 commandments are not the same.

The 10 commandments is a written letter; God eternal law is a living Spirit. The 10 commandments has a beginning and an end; God's eternal law has no beginning or end. The 10 commandments can be packaged; God's eternal law cannot be packaged.

Anyone who thinks a living Spirit that is eternal can be packaged into the number 10 don't quite understand what God's eternal law is.

Your theology sounds so much like the New Age view of the Bible, nothing is literal, there is no such thing as SIN! The 10 Commandments were written by the finger of Jesus, not Moses! How can you continue to ignore something that was written by the very finger of God?

 

[Doveaman]

Your theology sounds so much like the New Age view of the Bible, nothing is literal, there is no such thing as SIN! The 10 Commandments were written by the finger of Jesus, not Moses! How can you continue to ignore something that was written by the very finger of God?

You are assuming that anything written by God's finger must last forever. This is pure assumption with no biblical evidence whatsoever to support this view. Where is the biblical evidence? What God wrote with His finger is not evidence.

That which was written was the letter of the law. We now live by the Spirit of the law. The letter is now obsolete.

He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant - — not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life...if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone (the 10 commandments), came with glory...will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious?...2 Cor 3:6-8.

God might have written the latter of 10 commandments with His finger, but we do not rely on the written letter anymore. We now rely on the Living Spirit; we rely on Christ.

This is not New Age theology; this is biblical facts.