YES or NO: Do The 10 Commandments Still Apply To Us Today? (2)

[MamaZ]

We are the temple of God. We do not need to build a sanctuary for God. For we His people are the sanctuary of God. The law was accomplished by Christ . It is in Christ and His life and death that we have any righteousness. For we are declared righteous. We are now lead by the Spirit of God that dwells in us. We are not to be lead by the letter of the Law. The law can do nothing for us.. It could do nothing for even the Jewish people. For it was not set up for good for them but was set as a sign against them.

 

[Doveaman]

You're making assumptions about heaven that the bible in no way supports. Heaven is not a "spiritual" place. It is a real place. Christ is literally in the sanctuary because that is where He is. He is physically there. Jesus said that in His Father's house were many mansion's and that if it were not so He would have told us. He was talking about actual physical dwelling places for us.

Remember that the book of Revelation tells us that Satan and his angels were cast out of heaven.

No where does the bible say that God is our sanctuary. We were told to build one for Him so that He could dwell with us. And God did not sit on the 10 commandments. They were placed under the mercy seat. The angels looked down upon them with reverence. In other words you could see the mercy of God resting over the law of God.

The commandments are not a symbol of Christ. The lamb without spot or blemish was a symbol of Christ. The serpent raised up on a pole was a symbol of Christ. The law is a reflection of the character of Christ.

Heaven is spiritually real, not physically real. There is no flesh in heaven.

In addition:

Christ lives in me...Gal 2:20.

I guess that makes me the sanctuary.

Christ does not keep the seventh-day Sabbath either. He Himself is our Sabbath. We rest in Him, not on a day.

Come to me...and I will give you rest...and you will find rest for your souls...Matt 11:28-29.

 

[Stryder06]

Heaven is spiritually real, not physically real. There is no flesh in heaven.

Yes there is no flesh in heaven because when you die you wait in your grave until the day that Christ shall return to raise you up. Heaven is physically real. The bible is too clear on this point. Angels surround the throne of God. The holy city of God descends from heaven. This is too real. You should not spiritualize heaven for in doing so you're missing out on its splendor and majesty.

In addition:

Christ lives in me...Gal 2:20.

I guess that makes me the sanctuary.

Our bodies our the temple of the Holy Spirit which lives in us. Christ does dwell in us in spirit. Let this mind be in you which was in Christ Jesus.

Christ does not keep the seventh-day Sabbath either. He Himself is our Sabbath. We rest in Him, not on a day.

Come to me...and I will give you rest...and you will find rest for your souls...Matt 11:28-29.

Christ very much so kept the sabbath when He walked on earth. The bible says that God does not change. If Christ is God, and if God does not change, and if God kept the sabbath, that means that Christ is still keeping the sabbath. He is our rest but that does not negate the sabbath day rest that He has given to us to keep as a holy day unto Him. He blessed it and made it holy. Produce scripture where the reverse for this day was preformed and I'll acquiesce.

 

[Doveaman]

Yes there is no flesh in heaven because when you die you wait in your grave until the day that Christ shall return to raise you up. Heaven is physically real. The bible is too clear on this point. Angels surround the throne of God. The holy city of God descends from heaven. This is too real. You should not spiritualize heaven for in doing so you're missing out on its splendor and majesty.

You speak as if the spiritual is not real. Spiritual is more real than physical. The spiritual created the physical.

By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen (physical) were not made of things which are visible (they were made of the invisible spiritual)...Heb 11:3.

Our bodies our the temple of the Holy Spirit which lives in us. Christ does dwell in us in spirit. Let this mind be in you which was in Christ Jesus.

How can Christ be living in every believer everywhere in the world and be in a heavenly sanctuary at the same time?

Christ very much so kept the sabbath when He walked on earth. The bible says that God does not change. If Christ is God, and if God does not change, and if God kept the sabbath, that means that Christ is still keeping the sabbath.

This is not a very strong argument.

There was a whole bunch of stuff that Christ did as God/Man that has been changed or abolished. The passover meal is just one example.

He is our rest but that does not negate the sabbath day rest that He has given to us to keep as a holy day unto Him. He blessed it and made it holy. Produce scripture where the reverse for this day was preformed and I'll acquiesce.

For he himself is our peace...by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations...Eph 2:14-15.

He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the written code, (the law) with its regulations...he took it away, nailing it to the cross...

Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to...a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ...Col 2:13-17.

These are just two of many examples but you don't believe.

 

[Stryder06]

You speak as if the spiritual is not real. Spiritual is more real than physical. The spiritual created the physical.

So perhaps we're arguing over semantics here.

By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen (physical) were not made of things which are visible (they were made of the invisible spiritual)...Heb 11:3.
How can Christ be living in every believer everywhere in the world and be in a heavenly sanctuary at the same time?

Christ is in us through the Holy Spirit, while He Himself is in the heavenly Sanctuary.

This is not a very strong argument.

I think it is.

There was a whole bunch of stuff that Christ did as God/Man that has been changed or abolished. The passover meal is just one example.
For he himself is our peace...by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations...Eph 2:14-15.

He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the written code, (the law) with its regulations...he took it away, nailing it to the cross...

Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to...a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ...Col 2:13-17.

These are just two of many examples but you don't believe.

I do believe and you are right, Christ did abolish many things. The seventh day sabbath of the 4th commandment was not one of them however. Not without getting rid of the other nine would it be possible for Christ to have gotten rid of the 4th. You refuse to admit that it's possible that Paul wasn't refering to the 7th day sabbath, but instead he was talking about the other sabbath's that were part of the ceremonial and sacrifical ordinances.

Either we are suppose to worship on the Holy sabbath day that God created, or we don't have to worship together at all. Sunday was not made holy. Sunday was not sanctified. Sunday is a false day set up as a day of Sun worship by pagans. A practice that history proves was adopted by the church. Compromise and tradition is the reason why christians worship on sunday. Not because the bible says so.

 

[MamaZ]

Yes there is no flesh in heaven because when you die you wait in your grave until the day that Christ shall return to raise you up. Heaven is physically real. The bible is too clear on this point. Angels surround the throne of God. The holy city of God descends from heaven. This is too real. You should not spiritualize heaven for in doing so you're missing out on its splendor and majesty.

Our bodies our the temple of the Holy Spirit which lives in us. Christ does dwell in us in spirit. Let this mind be in you which was in Christ Jesus.


Christ very much so kept the sabbath when He walked on earth. The bible says that God does not change. If Christ is God, and if God does not change, and if God kept the sabbath, that means that Christ is still keeping the sabbath. He is our rest but that does not negate the sabbath day rest that He has given to us to keep as a holy day unto Him. He blessed it and made it holy. Produce scripture where the reverse for this day was preformed and I'll acquiesce.

Can you show me where in scripture we see God resting other than that one seventh day? Can you show me where God rests on every seventh day?

 

[MamaZ]

Worship is not to be counted for one day only.. Worship is a lifestyle that those born of God live. It is a life of living in obedience to faith..

 

[visionary]

You speak as if the spiritual is not real. Spiritual is more real than physical. The spiritual created the physical.

By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen (physical) were not made of things which are visible (they were made of the invisible spiritual)...Heb 11:3.
How can Christ be living in every believer everywhere in the world and be in a heavenly sanctuary at the same time?
This is not a very strong argument..

Bodily in heaven....

Acts 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

11Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Promises the comforter....

John 14:16
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

John 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 15:26
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 16:7
Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

 

[Stryder06]

Can you show me where in scripture we see God resting other than that one seventh day? Can you show me where God rests on every seventh day?

Not necessary. The bible already states the reason why the sabbath is a holy day. You show me a scripture where God made Sunday holy and we'll end the conversation. God made the sabbath day Holy.He rested from His work of creation. Thus He made the day holy. Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy is the command given. God is pleading with His people in Isaiah to stop trampling upon His holy day. In the same book He tells us that we will worship before Him every sabbath throughout eternity upon His holy mountain. He calls it an eternal covenant between us and Him.

You have no problem keeping the other commandments so why the fourth. It's precepts are just as clear as the other nine. God asks/commands and we are to obey. It's that simple.

 

[Stryder06]

Worship is not to be counted for one day only.. Worship is a lifestyle that those born of God live. It is a life of living in obedience to faith..

You are totally correct. But only one day was made holy. We are only asked to keep one day holy. This seems to be the point that is totally overlooked. You will not quite your job and keep every day holy. That's being lazy (as one pastor put it). Christ said that they honor me with their mouths but their hearts are far from me, because they are keeping the commandments of men.

Remember King Saul? God asked him to kill the utterly destroy the Amalekites and what did he do? He kept the king alive and the best of the flock. His excuse was that they were going to sacrifice the best of the flocks to the Lord. But that was not what God had asked them to do.

The problem from the beginning has been the created beings unwillingness to be obedient to the command of God. We are not to improvise, and than say that we are doing it in the name of the Lord. He doesn't need us to improve upon what He has asked us to do. We are to be obedient to what we are asked to do, and that's it.

 

[bbbbbbb]

You are totally correct. But only one day was made holy. We are only asked to keep one day holy.

Who are "we"? Who "asked"? As I read the Bible God commanded the Jews to keep the Sabbath holy. He did not ask them to do this. I am not a Jew and can never be one except by conversion or marriage.

This seems to be the point that is totally overlooked. You will not quite your job and keep every day holy. That's being lazy (as one pastor put it). Christ said that they honor me with their mouths but their hearts are far from me, because they are keeping the commandments of men.

What you make, then, of the command by God Himself to His people (the Jews) to observe a complete rest from work for a full year every seven years as well as another year-long rest every fiftieth year? BTW, I do not see that this command was obeyed either in the Old or the New Testaments. It might have been obeyed initially in the Old, but certainly never in the New.

Remember King Saul? God asked him to kill the utterly destroy the Amalekites and what did he do? He kept the king alive and the best of the flock. His excuse was that they were going to sacrifice the best of the flocks to the Lord. But that was not what God had asked them to do.

The problem from the beginning has been the created beings unwillingness to be obedient to the command of God. We are not to improvise, and than say that we are doing it in the name of the Lord. He doesn't need us to improve upon what He has asked us to do. We are to be obedient to what we are asked to do, and that's it.

There is a significant difference between asking someone to do something and commanding them to do it. If God merely asked His people to do these things, then we would be calling them the Ten Requests, not the Ten Commandments. I suggest that your church has taken great liberties with the O.T. commandment to keep the Sabbath holy by resting on the seventh day. To this day, observant Jews rest at home on Saturday and do not attend worship services in the synagogue. They do not walk more than a Sabbath Day's walk anywhere.

My questions to you, which remain unanswered are whether or not you drive an automobile on the Sabbath (thus working) or if you limited your travel to a Sabbath Day's journey on foot. Do you kindle a fire in your house on the Sabbath (have a furnace running or heat food in your kitchen?

 

[Joachim]

There are more than 10 commandments you know. I think there are actually more than 500 if you read the entire list.

 

[Stryder06]

There is a significant difference between asking someone to do something and commanding them to do it. If God merely asked His people to do these things, then we would be calling them the Ten Requests, not the Ten Commandments. I suggest that your church has taken great liberties with the O.T. commandment to keep the Sabbath holy by resting on the seventh day. To this day, observant Jews rest at home on Saturday and do not attend worship services in the synagogue. They do not walk more than a Sabbath Day's walk anywhere.

We don't teach how Jews keep the sabbath, rather how God asks us to keep the sabbath. From what the bible shows, Jesus did alot of walking on the sabbath. How exactly can you reach people if you remain at home? The Jews made the sabbath a burden and Jesus taught them that that was not the intent of the sabbath law. It was not to be a burden but a delight. Jesus told the one man to pick up his bed and walk when he healed him on the sabbath.

My questions to you, which remain unanswered are whether or not you drive an automobile on the Sabbath (thus working) or if you limited your travel to a Sabbath Day's journey on foot. Do you kindle a fire in your house on the Sabbath (have a furnace running or heat food in your kitchen?

See above statement

 

[Stryder06]

There are more than 10 commandments you know. I think there are actually more than 500 if you read the entire list.

Many laws, but the 10 are the law of God. The law which reveals sin. The law which applies to all mankind.

 

[MamaZ]

So then what you are saying is that you can cherry pick what you can or cannot do on the sabbath but still call it keeping the sabbath day Holy as God commanded? So you break the sabbath day as commanded and explained in the law but yet judge others for not doing what is being done by your church? Go Figure..

 

[visionary]

So then what you are saying is that you can cherry pick what you can or cannot do on the sabbath but still call it keeping the sabbath day Holy as God commanded? So you break the sabbath day as commanded and explained in the law but yet judge others for not doing what is being done by your church? Go Figure..

And you pick which day you shall worship.. which is worse..

Daniel 7:25
And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

 

[cyberlizard]

who is this man who has power to change laws/commandments? Should we follow what he has to say?


Steve

p.s. the NT speaks of the law given by angels as unalterable.

 

[MamaZ]

And you pick which day you shall worship.. which is worse..

Daniel 7:25
And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

I worship every day. For worship is a lifestyle and not a day.

 

[MamaZ]

Rom 7:1 Or are you ignorant, brothers, (for I speak to those knowing Law), that the Law lords it over the man for as long a time as he lives?
Rom 7:2 For the married woman was bound by Law to the living husband; but if the husband dies, she is set free from the Law of the husband.
Rom 7:3 So then, if the husband is living, she will be called an adulteress if she becomes another man's. But if the husband dies, she is free from the Law, so as for her not to be an adulteress by becoming another man's.
Rom 7:4 So that, my brothers, you also were made dead to the Law through the body of Christ, for you to become Another's, to the One raised from the dead, so that we may bear fruit to God.
Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the passions of sin were working in our members through the Law for the bearing of fruit unto death.
Rom 7:6 But now we have been set free from the Law, having died to that in which we were held, so as for us to serve in newness of spirit, and not in oldness of letter.



We are dead to the law and married to Christ or else we would be as an adulteress..

 

[Stryder06]

So then what you are saying is that you can cherry pick what you can or cannot do on the sabbath but still call it keeping the sabbath day Holy as God commanded? So you break the sabbath day as commanded and explained in the law but yet judge others for not doing what is being done by your church? Go Figure..

Did Christ cherry pick how to keep the sabbath, or did He show us how we are to keep the sabbath.